Am I a prick?
 

So I am leaving my friends apartment tonight and find a boot on my truck. Apparently I am not permitted to park in the common lot, but must park in the visitors lot instead. This is plainly explained to me on a sign in the visitors lot, which is farther into the complex than where I parked. So I call the poor idiot to get the boot off, and after taking my card and running it he proceeds to take the boot off. At this point I call my credit card company, and while standing there smiling at him, have a stop payment put on the charge. After that he got down-right unfriendly, and I shared a few choice words with him and the complex manager before leaving.

So, am I a prick, or am I justified in believing that visiting a friend shouldn't be a cause for profit ($100 gets your car free)? Please note that this apartment complex is in the middle of nowhere, so people aren't just parking there out of convenience in order to go elsewhere.

Do you really want to know? :surprised:


















Your situation is just another clear case of wrong place, wrong time.

Just call this a bad day and look forward to fifteen brighter ones. :D

You might have put your friend in a tough spot, but they should have put the sign where everyone could read it. If this goes to court, which it probably won't, you'd probably be fine. Still, they may be in a position to make the life of the friend you were visiting a bit more difficult, so you may want to give fair warning in case the idiots are vindictive.

If they do get vindictive, then go buy a few boots and see how they like it. :thumbsup: That'd be money better spent than paying a stupid fine.

The sick thing is that it isn't much more than a guy with some boots in his car driving about extorting money from people. I'm not even sure there is a legal grounds for the company, United Parking Enforcement (no website, just a yahoo mail address), to place a restraint device on a private vehicle. Of course what are you gonna do, walk to court to wax legal with some inbred mafiosi? Once they have you by the curlies you don't have much choice but to pay.

Perhaps some of the more legally minded could chime in?

You're a prick.


And a very good one.



I would have done the same thing.

ur awsome

were you there for an exorbanant amount of time?

They dont even put boot on the first day at my last university..and thier total hardass's about parking there...

I will have to remember to do exactly that next time this happens to me.

yeah debaser, i'd say you're an inspiration. great work. i see no moral problem with your actions in any way shape or form.

There was a prick in the story, but it wasn't you. :)

not only would I have done the same thing, i'd have filed complaints with the police about attempted extortion simply because your description of the placement of said sign holds no legal weight. then i'd sue the property owner or file a complaint to have them charged under the rico act....after filing for information on how many other people they may have scammed.

That's pretty awesome - I would've never thought of that..

But no, I don't see how this alone could make you a prick.

As far as I'm concerned, what they did is no different than stopping you at the exit and saying that you must pay $100 before you leave. It's extortion at the best, unlawful seizure and unlawful detainment at worst.

What a racket, though. If I ever get short on money, I'm definitely just throwing some boots on cars and seeing how much I can rip people off for.

Good work!

I'm adding my credit cards number to my speed dial right now.

If the towing company was smart, they would've been cash-only. Then you wouldn't have had the opportunity to be a prick.

But that's irrelevant. The world tries to screw us over every waking moment of our lives. Hat's off to you for screwing them back.

I think that is a good idea. And I think it would be a good idea to go back and take photos first. To be able to prove exactly what the sign says, where it is, and where it is not.

What, exactly, does the sign say? No parking, parking will result in fine, will result in getting booted/towed?

Two Words... PRIVATE PROPERTY. You park on private property you are subject to different rules that normal. Examples I can think of are stop signs and speed limits in parking lots, neither are really enforceable by the security partrol and sometimes can be challenged if stopped by police. Same thing with the Shoppers with Children spots. Handicapped have laws, albeit there are some that can challenge a spot if it does not carry proper signage. The same goes for private lots that state that vehicles will be towed, there are laws governing that.

Had I been the guy removing the boot and I overheard you on the phone. I would have put it back on. The moment you touched me would have been assualt.

YMMV.

Woah woah WOAH... you've seen a parking lot with parking spaces specifically for people with kids?

Seriously??

The Rico act?

I've seen Disabled, Pregnant Women, and Seniors parking spots at malls...

Ignorance of the rule is never excuse for being exempt from the rule. The place has visitor only parking and resident only parking. You parked in the wrong place and, signs notwithstanding, they are perfectly within their rights to boot or tow or whatever else they want. It does not have to be pristinely clearly marked, so long as a reasonable person would have understood. You've given us scant details, but it sounds like you parked in the most convenient spot without looking around much. Why they have different lots or where they are or where the signs are doesn't really matter much. You were there and subject to their rules and you broke them.

This is not a RICO conspiracy. It's not extortion. It's not anything even really in a gray area of against the law. No question he's being a dick and trying to catch people, but that's kind of what the whole parking industry is about. If anything, he is entitled to sue you in small claims court. You might note that when you use your credit card you sign a contract to pay for the service or good you received (in this case taking the boot off). You basically used it fraudently in this case because you had no intent of paying and then followed through and prevented payment.

In your gut (and clearly in most everyone else's) you did the "right" thing to screw a dick, but you've got no legal ground to stand on and being a dick to a dick doesn't really solve anything.

Note after re-reading people's comments: If they didn't have a sign at all and he just made that up, then you're totally fine and justified. I can't tell for sure if there was a sign that you didn't see (for whatever reason) or if he just tried to tell you there was a sign and there really wasn't.

sounds good to me :P


I have no idea what the fuck a "Boot" is on your vehicle though.

I'm very interested to hear how this one sorts itself out. My initial thought is that debaser isn't as creative as he thinks and that there's already a system in place to stop exactly these kinds of shenanigans. If I were the booting company, that would be the very first thing that I would figure out how to overcome. No one getting a boot off their car is in a good mood, and I am positive that others have come up with this kind of quick fix before.

On a related note, I wonder why an apartment complex "in the middle of nowhere" thinks that they have enough of a problem with visitors parking in the wrong place to hire someone like this. One would think that some new signage would be a much cheaper, easier fix.

Yes. Grocery stores in Southern California...

I never actually saw the sign, I was assured by the UPE employee and the apartment manager that it was clearly posted in the visitors lot, which was farther into the complex than I had driven. Now granted, my friend could have mentioned the parking policy and avoided the whole incident, but he forgot so here we are.

The_Jazz: On the back of my card it says "Ask for photo ID". The UPE guy did not ask for my ID, and I just signed the CC slip with an X. I figure that even if the parking company figures a way around my shens, I still have a valid out with my bank. Who know, I'll keep everyone informed.

My guess is that it is not in their interest to pursue these things. Why make hard money when you can make easy money?

Well, that actually makes your credit card invalid for ALL purchases. Has to be signed to be legitimate.. "SEE ID" is not enough.

At any rate, I don't see how you wouldn't be clear even before the credit card comes into the situation. They're the ones who broke the law.

What right are you talking about? I hope you're not talking about legal rights, because you'd be absolutely, 100%, incorrect. Right to seizure of property or right to detain are rights NEVER granted to civilians. How would you feel if you went to Wal-Mart, and as you tried to leave the parking lot, they told you that you had to pay $500 or you couldn't leave the lot? Even if they posted signs, they have no legal power nor rights to do so.

The right to seizure and detainment are granted only to state-licensed officers of the peace, and for good reason. Even in the case that you've parked illegally in someone's backyard, they have no right to boot your car or otherwise attempt to "fine" you. They're able to take you to civil court AFTER the fact, but they are not able to withhold your vehicle. They may phone the PROPER authorities and have it towed from their premises, but nothing more.

Really? Since you seem so knowledgeable, perhaps you could cite the law that allows a private citizen on private property to levy such a fine?

I've seen a show about how notorious these booters are in the UK. These fools are in it for the quick & easy buck, and you were probably booted as soon as you walked around the corner from your car, even if your friend warned you when you got to his place, I'm sue it would have been too late. I'd say with them not taking your ID, you signing with an X, and the fact that they probably never wrote down your plate number, you are in the clear.

I have no idea what country you are from, but I will assume United States. Detaining your vehicle is not legal. They know this. You don't have to worry about them taking legal action, that's the last thing they would consider.

It is, in fact, extortion, so no moral qualms either.

(edit: reposted on accident)

I should not make posts really late at night, because I think I totally misunderstood what happened in this post and made up facts that were not actually included in what the OP described. Sooo....just ignore me.

QFT

*the only concern being that you might go visit your friend again*


EDIT: now that I've read the thread I have no idea what so many of you seem to be thinking...private lots boot, tow, and restrict cars all the fskn time. Park in a mall or Quizno's and walk to the beach and you'll come back to an empty stall (or a different car, anyway). As for the WalMart example, ok, granted, people can't come out of stores and demand money before you leave the lot...but that doesn't mean you can't be charged and detained for parking in a lot...unless people reading this have never seen/heard/used toll parking!

I'd love to see that one...leaving the airport or hotel: "you don't have the right to detain me!" *rams the toll gate*

...wakes up to police knocking on front door...

When I was in high school I saw this guy with an old crusty Astro van get booted for parking in the delivery lane for like ten minutes. He came out... saw the boot on... nodded... got in the van and drove off with it on his van! It tore the hell out of the fender and wheel well, but it came off. He brought it back and threw it on the doorstep of the school security building.

Towing is perfectly legal, provided it is private property. AS I SAID IN MY POST, they are perfectly right to tow your car and the towing company is within their rights to charge you for the service.

Booting? I think not. You'd be better advised to read the appropriate laws in your state if you think this is a legal practice.

This is a totally different situation, and you know it.

By taking your ticket and parking in the lot, you've entered into a contract with the lot's owner. You're SOL in that event.

If in the OP's case, the practice isn't clearly marked *before* reaching any parking spaces (or, reasonably visible from the first parking spaces), he may have an argument.

I was curious enough about this to hijack the thread, because I use "Ask for ID" on all my cards. My signature is nothing close to consistent (not that people ever look at it anyway). It turns out it you are technically correct, but none of their policies make sense. Visa has a nonsensical section in their "Merchants" section:

So if my card says "See ID" I should sign the card and then you should see if my signature on the card matches the one on the receipt? GOOD PLAN. Because it's sure as hell not going to match the signature on my driver's license. I had to sign that on an electronic pad -- does anyone signature look the same on an actual surface as it does when signing a pad?

It seems like they suggest if you want to do this you should sign it and ALSO put "Check ID" on the card, because then you enter the agreement and also get that 10% of clerks who actually look at the card to check your ID. But the bottom line is this: we need a better way to prove identity than signatures. We need something like thumbprint ID, and that requires all Americans to register, and a lot of people hate that.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. debaser, you stuck it to the man. Well done. And don't go back there. :)

Seems like charging to remove a boot is much different from charging to collect a car that has been towed from private property. And it would seem tough to tow a car if it wasn't parked where a sign clearly said you would be towed.

There has to be more to this story. I've always heard there's three sides to every story: yours, mine and the cold, hard truth (the Eagles).

I don't think you're a prick. Or, if you are, you're my kind of prick. I would have done the same thing in that situation. :thumbsup:

What a tangled web.

I think your vehicle's kidnapping entitles you to be a prick. Be a big one.

Doesn't your bank charge you to stop payment? I mean yea I am sure its less then $100 but you still ended up losing some for it. I am not sure who is right on the legal end of things but I am pretty sure you are right on the moral end of things. I mean you have to have a sign where it can be read not fifty feet down the road, you know? Its like thinking your in a 50 MPH speed zone and a cop pulling you over and saying its 25 MPH then saying "Didn't you see the sign? There is one up the road a bit that says 25 MPH starting one mile back"

Also I know they exist but I have yet to experience an apartment complex that was really super concerned with their parking (it should be noted I don't live in a dense city). At my last apartment complex my car broke down and sat there for four months till I towed it without anyone ever saying anything. Eh.