F**k my Insurance Company

[sky_driver]

I am in a battle with my health insurance company over them not paying a claim. I was told one thing several months ago by them when I was deciding on which plan to choose and now I am being told somethng else and they do not want to pay the claim. It is only $700 but it is the principle about the matter.

I am so pissed that I want to reserve the website "such and such " InsuranceSucks.com

I checked it, and it is available. I don't know what I would do with the site except maybe make it a forum for other disgruntled clients.

I just want other's thoughts on this. Should I just say fuck it, or should I at least make a stand.

[Jinn]

On a scale of 1-10, how important is it for you to denounce this insurance company, spend the time and money to build a website, and face possible libel or slander lawsuits?

If it's more than an 8, I'd go for it. If it's a 5, I'd make sure you tell your friends about how you hate this company. If it's a 3? Try sucking up to the person on the phone.. they have a lot more power than we realize, sometimes.

And if you're REALLY convinced that it's fraud (with documentation to prove it) and not just you signing away the wrong things in a contract -- let the BBB know.

[Glory's Sun]

eh if it's that much of a problem..

call a lawyer.

[The_Jazz]

Originally Posted by sky_driver

I am so pissed that I want to reserve the website "such and such " InsuranceSucks.com

Bad idea

Originally Posted by guccilvr

call a lawyer.

Better idea

[Ourcrazymodern?]

Insurance has always been a scam. Think of the "mob".
Unfortunately, we're all so attached to money, we'll continue handing it over to those who supposedly protect us.
Make a stand, if you dare.

[dc_dux]

File a complaint with your state insurance commissioner
http://personalinsure.about.com/cs/w.../aa031604a.htm

[SirLance]

Listen to dc_dux, call your state's dept. of insurance. All states require that insurance companies be licensed to do business. They will take and investigage complaints, but be prepared for a beauracracy!

[The_Jazz]

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern?

Insurance has always been a scam. Think of the "mob".
Unfortunately, we're all so attached to money, we'll continue handing it over to those who supposedly protect us.
Make a stand, if you dare.

And again - you don't know what you're talking about. Insurance has never been a "scam". Perhaps you don't understand it, but it is absolutely necessary and has been for the last 100 years.

Then again, perhaps you're wealthy enough to be able to afford to rebuild your home if it burns down or pay $1M to the parents of a child that you hit with your car.



Back on topic - the state commissioner could be a good idea, but you need to be prepared to document your argument pretty well. I don't deal with health insurance at all, but I do a whole lot of casualty insurance (third party claims). If I can help, let me know, but unless the department of insurance can help, your best bet is a lawyer that will cost you more than the $700.

[cyklone]

Insurance may not be a scam, but it is little different to mob activities. Insurance companies bet that nothing will go wrong with you over the insured period, you bet that it will. They set the odds and charge you accordingly. If they are wrong and you win they up the ante on the next bet. How is this different from the illegal gambling activities that the mob have run for years. They like to justify their activity by saying that it "spreads the risk" and it does, but they make a very healthy profit and the odds they offer are usurious.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern?

Insurance has always been a scam. Think of the "mob".
Unfortunately, we're all so attached to money, we'll continue handing it over to those who supposedly protect us.
Make a stand, if you dare.

If it wasn't for my health insurance, I'd be dead by now. They covered everything during all of my health problems. Last I checked (which was the first of 3 total years worth of treatment), the cost was well over $1 million, and without that insurance, I would never have been able to afford it.

[snowy]

Originally Posted by spectre

If it wasn't for my health insurance, I'd be dead by now. They covered everything during all of my health problems. Last I checked (which was the first of 3 total years worth of treatment), the cost was well over $1 million, and without that insurance, I would never have been able to afford it.

Same with my brother and mother. My father jokingly calls my mother the 10 Million Dollar Woman because she's had so many things done. Her body builds scar tissue like crazy, and she has to have procedures to remove it. I know that even though I'm healthy, I'm not willing to bet against catastrophe.

If your insurer isn't practicing good business, talk to your state insurance office.

[The_Jazz]

Originally Posted by cyklone

Insurance may not be a scam, but it is little different to mob activities. Insurance companies bet that nothing will go wrong with you over the insured period, you bet that it will. They set the odds and charge you accordingly. If they are wrong and you win they up the ante on the next bet. How is this different from the illegal gambling activities that the mob have run for years. They like to justify their activity by saying that it "spreads the risk" and it does, but they make a very healthy profit and the odds they offer are usurious.

I'll agree that there is definitely an element of gambling to insurance. As a matter of fact, that's one of the reason why I do it for a living. There's one big difference that make you absolutely wrong - if you don't like it, you can walk away. You can go find another company if your company ups the ante.

And actually, insurance companies don't set the odds. Either Mother Nature does or people do. Mother Nature does it for First Party (property) coverage, and Third Parties (casualty, health, life) set the rest. There are well over 100,000 insurance companies in the world, and almost all of them do a great job protecting their policy holders. If you don't like yours or if the rates change, go find a new one.

Let me know if I need to do a better job of explaining it, but the above is totally wrong.

[snowy]

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

If you don't like yours or if the rates change, go find a new one.

Truer words have never been spoken. Your insurance company should work for you, not the other way around. That applies to any kind of insurance, I do believe.

[Ourcrazymodern?]

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

And again - you don't know what you're talking about. Insurance has never been a "scam". Perhaps you don't understand it, but it is absolutely necessary and has been for the last 100 years.

Then again, perhaps you're wealthy enough to be able to afford to rebuild your home if it burns down or pay $1M to the parents of a child that you hit with your car.



Back on topic - the state commissioner could be a good idea, but you need to be prepared to document your argument pretty well. I don't deal with health insurance at all, but I do a whole lot of casualty insurance (third party claims). If I can help, let me know, but unless the department of insurance can help, your best bet is a lawyer that will cost you more than the $700.

Insurance has always been a money-related scam. Sorry to have pissed you off, Jazz, but I stand by my original statement, and respect your misunderstanding of it.

I have insurance of all sorts. Please don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about again, when my statements are so general. My wife's an attorney.

Take the website, OP, and use it for the greater good!

[The_Jazz]

Ourcrazymodern? - you've posted this kind of thing before, and I'll continue to respectfully but vehemently disagree. I'm not pissed off, so no worries there, but I do disagree with you completely and utterly.

That said, if you think insurance is a scam, then you don't know what you're talking about, and there is no misunderstanding. It has never been a money-related scam. The concept began when the British started trading across the globe and the risk of ships never returning was very high. Lloyd's of London was created to spread that risk around so that those who sponsored the trips wouldn't lose everything.

Regardless of who you or your wife is, saying that an entire industry is a scam is an insult to me and the hundreds of thousands of people who work in it every day. The simple fact that most companies write to an underwriting profit in the low 100%'s (with only a very few exceptions) should tell you that losses outpace the premiums very quickly. Insurance companies don't make money on the premiums - they make money by taking those premiums and investing them wisely. For instance, the world's largest insurance company's (AIG) largest revenue stream isn't from insurance premiums but from the lease of fleets of trucks and airplanes. In a typical year their loss to premium ratio hovers around 103%, but they keep it there because of the cash-flow potential.

There are certainly problems with the healthcare system, and one of them is the health insurance companies, but I will not sit silent while you or anyone else label me and every single one of my professional friends as scammers or mobsters. There are bad apples in every profession, but I work very hard to make sure that my clients pay the least amount of money for the most amount of coverage. Clearly you don't understand that is what almost everyone in my industry does.

[thingstodo]

The only way to deal with an insurance company is with the words in your coverage. Anything else is meaningless.

[ShaniFaye]

Did you get whatever it was you asked them about being covered in writing?

[Menoman]

I think alot of insurance is a scam, health insurance is actually one that I think is a necessary part of life though, it has saved many many headaches and lives for people who can't afford 200k surgery if they need one.


Auto insurance on the other hand, is complete bullshit, and has been a scam for many years now.

[Bill O'Rights]

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern?

Insurance has always been a scam.

Scam? Nahhh.
Necessary evil? You betcha.

Consider...I've been driving forrrr...what? 29 years now. The last reportable accident that I had was in 1979. My last moving violation was 1988? 1989? Somewhere around there. I was rearended about 14 years ago, but his insurance obviously paid as I was not at fault. Not too shabby a driving record, eh? *knock wood* But I still have to watch, every month, as my insurance company takes another 100 bucks. Hell...they should be paying me by now, just to keep my business.
Still...you have to have it. The second that you don't? Fate introduces you to a man named Murphey. So, I keep my insurance, not because I'm being scammed...but because I have no interest in losing everything I own because of a bad 2 seconds in my day.

Call it..."peace of mind".

Homeowner's? Same thing. Never once have I made a claim. Still pay it.

Health Insurance? Hardly ever. I rarely go the doctor. Although, I did end up on the losing end of a battle of wits with a box knife a couple of years ago. Insurance paid to stich up the boo-boo on my finger and the tetanus shot, since I hadn't had one in 24 years. (I told you...I don't go to the doctor)

[The_Jazz]

Every state has a mechanism to allow you to self-insure any auto exposure you want. All you need to do is post the necessary cash, which is generally at least $20,000. If you own the car outright, you don't need to provide Physical Damage coverage to fix it if there's an accident or some sort of damage.

The same with your home. If you own it outright, you don't have to buy Homeowners coverage. If you have a mortgage, at least a chunk belongs to the bank, and they're going to dictate that you buy the coverage with a provision naming them as the mortgagee so that they get their money back in the event of a fire, etc.

The instance anyone invents a machine to accurately predict the future, the insurance industry is done. Until then, I can understand feeling like you're paying something for nothing, but if you ever need it, insurance can be a life-saver.

And, Bill, if you're playing $1200/year in Omaha ($100/mo), you must have at least two fairly nice new cars. Otherwise, you're paying more than you need to. I don't know personal rates, but the commercial rate in Nebraska is around $300/year for private passenger vehicles (cars).

[Ourcrazymodern?]

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

damage:
the insurance industry is done. Until then, I can understand feeling like you're paying something for nothing, but if you ever need it, insurance can be a life-saver.

).

Cherry or lemon? Insurance seems to have built more beautiful edifices than they need. When they're blown down by some crazed zealot, will they be protecting anybody? I don't think so.
The way of our species seems to be take or give, win or lose. And while I can't come up with an alternative to money (or at least haven't yet...) I think somebody will, eventually.
I love you, too, Jazz, and I will keep feeding the pot.

[The_Jazz]

I love you too, OCM.

Insurance lifesavers are usually minty-fresh, like birthcontrol pills.

In the modern world, financial edifices are zealot-proof. Destruction of the WTC on 9/11 did no direct harm to anyone's savings. The recession that followed did, but I honestly think that the event was merely a trigger for something that would have happened soon anyway.

Money? It will be here in some form or another for my lifetime. I may be spending credits on a starship if the authors are to be believed, but it will most likely be dollars at the 7-11.

[alkaloid]

Originally Posted by sky_driver

I am in a battle with my health insurance company over them not paying a claim. I was told one thing several months ago by them when I was deciding on which plan to choose and now I am being told somethng else and they do not want to pay the claim. It is only $700 but it is the principle about the matter.

I am so pissed that I want to reserve the website "such and such " InsuranceSucks.com

I checked it, and it is available. I don't know what I would do with the site except maybe make it a forum for other disgruntled clients.

I just want other's thoughts on this. Should I just say fuck it, or should I at least make a stand.

Recently I read about how the hirings at medical insurance companies doubled, and the author argued that most of those hired were dedicated to screening and rejecting claims. I recently read in Money Magazine that industry average for initial claims denial is around 15% and my insurer United Healthcare has around 30% initial denial rate.

I recently switched from an HMO to high deductible medical insurance. Although the premiums went down greatly, there is a great increase in the number of calls we have to make and number of letters we have mail. They also (conveniently for them) lose paperwork time to time so that we have to be careful about keeping copies of bills and keeping parallel accounting ourselves. We are probably going back to the warm embrace of our regional HMO next year.

Please don't let them cheat you. Don't let them win. Stay and fight!

[kylere]

I agree that insurance companies are not a scam globally. However, they tend to setup rules that are self beneficial to the point of being ruinous to their clients. Scams usually involve deception and the insurance companies are very open about their practices. Consumers often fail to bother finding out all the information about their policies until it is too late which leaves them feeling scammed. The insurance companies spend millions to lobby state legislatures for laws like Michigan's No Fault (which is the worst I am aware of after living in several states as spoken of below) and in some cases they abuse the consumers by charging rates several times what is realistic because they have no choice but to comply. However it is your elected officials that set the laws, rules and practices of the insurance companies (at least within the US) and they are the people that should be pushed into handling the issues. Write your representatives if you want them to listen, use pen and paper instead of email or phone calls, and hope they care more about their constituents than the next big donation check from GEICO.

In Michigan our laws are wonderful, In my fully covered car if I am hit by;
-If I am hit by a PLPD driver (PLPD is liability only) the result is: My car gets fixed (as cheaply as the insurance company can get away with) the other car stays broken, and both our rates go up.
-Fully covered driver, both our cars are fixed, both our rates go up.
-Uninsured driver, my rates go up, they are charged and fined but rarely prosecuted by the state and the most I can collect from them USD$500 which would equal about my annual cost increase.

If I have basic liability coverage (PLPD)
-If I am hit by a PLPD driver, nothing is fixed for either of us, both our rates go up
-If I am hit by fully covered driver, his car is fixed, mine is not, both our rates go up.
-If I am hit by uninsured driver, my rates go up (and theirs if they try to get insurance)and the 500 limit applies.

So regardless of circumstances, the insurance companies here collect more money from all parties, and have limited their liability to the point that I feel as if they think No-fault means they should not have to pay anyone. The only consistency appears to be rate increases. To add insult to injury, when I moved from Cincinnati, Ohio to Flint Michigan my insurance rates tripled without any other variable changing (Other than me turning aging a year). Liability here is almost exactly the same (5% diff) as full coverage in Cincy.

As for health insurance, I would rant about it, but I feel that the hospitals/doctors offices are so poorly managed I am just glad to get in and out when I can. Took me six tries to find a decent doctor when I moved here, and none of the area hospitals can manage to make it through a day without losing (physically) patients heh.