Do you give panhandlers money?
 

Hubby and I just got back from our yearly trip to Las Vegas. We saw a lot of panhandlers. I rarely give money to panhandlers; I usually don't have cash/change anyway, but for some reason I have a hard time giving my money to someone that I assume is just going to use it to get drunk or high instead of actually eating or using it on a ticket since they are stranded (classic reason for panhandling here), or because they were evicted or whatever. One of the few times I remember giving a panhandler money was when a guy had a sign that said "Need money for beer"...I thought at least he was being honest. What are your thoughts on the matter?

I always give them money. If I don't have cash, I come back with cash. I can't imagine someone who won't give because they assume that someone will spend the money on booze. Just because I live in a million dollar home and drive a car with a turbo doesn't give me the right to pass judgment on people I've never met and who clearly need help.

I found that homeless people are often fascinating people and are in their current condition despite their honest efforts. There's a restaurant around the corner from my work and I often take homeless people to lunch there.

Sometimes I give sometimes I don't. It depends I guess. But once I hand over that money, they can do whatever they want with it. I hold no disillusions of dictating what another does.

Panhandling is an art in some of the major cities although I must say the one's on the east coast tend to be more talented or work harder at it than the lazy bums on the west coast.

I remember the panhandler in Boston who were chess whiz's or would play an instrument very well at the very least. But the one's in LA are just lazy it seems. The one's in Melrose are very aggressive and "demand" money for more tattoos, body piercings and their cell phone bills. I once asked one to at least sing a song or dance a jig and they got all huffy with me.

Oh my favorite is if you offer to buy them a sandwich or a coffee, they get all picky and stuff. I had one throw the sandwich back at me cause it wasn't on wheat bread and had yellow mustard not brown mustard.

*shrug*

I never judge what they might or might not do with it, but all the same, I just don't give my money away. I know I wouldn't really miss it, but as the poll says, it's my money, dammit! I used to give a lot away when I first moved to the big city, but I think I just got tired of the small constant drain on my wallet.

Instead I spend that extra couple of dollars on better (more ethical?) food sources. Possibly I am buying into a more sustainable economy with where I choose to pay extra in this department. For a second, let's forget about the animals who benefit when I buy organic. I'm thinking of the labor systems at the farms which are the source of my eggs and meat, etc. I've decided that my money is going to help people who work at these farms.

Mordecai Richler once wrote that he found it cheaper to take a taxi a few blocks that to pay out to all the panhandlers he walked by in Montreal.

I do give money to panhandlers but I do opt for food coupons and the like.

I'm not passing judgment on panhandlers. I've known a lot of panhandlers in my life, both homeless and non homeless. I've worked with people who considered panhandling a second job and used the profits to get high on the weekends. My uncle is a hobo by choice; he is college educated but likes the "homeless" lifestyle. He often panhandles and I don't really know what he does with the money. My brother often panhandled in the last few years of his life, and he was never homeless for more than a week. He spent his money on beer and smokes. Before he became ill, he would take every panhandler with a sign that said "Will work for food" up on the offer...he'd ask them to come to his house and mow his lawn and he'd fix them a nice lunch. He never had a taker, not once.

If a panhandler wants to get drunk, or get a pack of smokes, or get high with his money, that's fine with me. It's not my place to dictate what people can and can't do with their money. However, it is my place to dictate what I do with MY own money and I usually choose not to give it to others that, from experience and the experiences of others close to me, will likely spend it on something that doesn't help their situation.

There's always a homeless person on the train or on campus. The one that usually hangs out on campus I don't see that often, but when I do I'll give him a dollar since he's pretty nice and friendly. On the train, I've seen enough crazy ones to either not give anything or some change, but I refuse to take out my wallet.

it all depends on my current frame of mind and the attitude of the day. i used to give a lot more often than i do now; these days, it really depends on how i'm feeling. i don't put them all into the "get a job you fucker" category nor do i put them all into the "poor disadvantaged soul" category. i treat them as individuals. over the years, i've gotten to know some homeless people pretty well. i used to give money regularly to one i knew, in particular, who was certifiably insane. we had interesting talks, and i believe at base he was a decent guy.

then there was the guy who's wife would drop him off, and he'd make up the same horseshit story about his carbeurator blowing out, and needing $15 bucks to get to danville. i called him out on it once, and he just smiled.

then i knew the girl from the upper middle class hippie family, who did the "homeless" circuit for a while just for kicks. she advocated everyone doing the same. she tried to fuck me in the front yard of her parents' house. i was about 27, she was about 19.

so really, it all depends.

I usually do when I'm in a big city like Chicago, Atlanta, Vegas, Indianapolis. I could see how it could get annoying though if you live in one of these cities and get asked several times a day.

I used to feel obligated to give them money until one experience in Kentucky. I think this was based of a bible passage I read that essentially said give money to whomever asks for you will be repaid in heaven. The man asked for money for a coffee and sandwich at a gas station. The Mcdonalds was right next to it so I gave him more than he even asked for. He did a 180 degree turn away from the restaurant and went straight for the the liqour store.

On the otherhand, there was a few times I gave people anywhere from a few bucks to $20 bucks and received more thanks than I could of ever imagined.

Bottomline is I think I have become more willing to give money to people who ask in small towns than big towns where they are more likely to just be professional panhandlers.

No, I usually just tell them to "get a job", or something else as "heartless".
Cultural? Yes. Mean-spirited? Dunno. Wrong? As they are.

My view on panhandlers has takena 360 since we've moved to Chicago. When we first moved up here I would always keep change in my pocket. But now, I will rarely give a handout.

I see so many panhandlers, I think I'm immune to them now. I'm pretty jaded when it comes to them. We've been cursed at, spat on, and had things thrown at us. I was told once I was going to hell...I told her I already put a down payment on a condo down there which is why I had no change for her. :)

If I walk out of a store with some coins, I'll give them away. However, there are too many people wanting handouts and I can't give my money away to all of them. If the person seems cool, I'll be likely to check my pockets. But I never pull out my wallet, that's asking for a mugging.

First, if you give someone something out of genuine generosity, you shouldn't mind how they spend it. If you tie your own conditional restrictions, you immediately reduce generosity to something more akin to a financial transaction where you expect something specific in return.

Second, why should self-medication be the exclusive privilege of those who can hide it behind clean clothes and shiny cars?

Third, I've always considered carrying a roll of quarters with me everywhere to dispense to all who ask me. I get about five or so requests a day during the work week.

I prefer to support the local kitchens and shelters, and let folks who seem to need it where to find these places. Since I not only support myself but also help my sister and three nephews, I feel like I'm doing "enough". Would go broke giving everyone even small change all the time, and I don't feel particularly motivated to do so.

Why shouldn't you mind how they spend it? You gave it to them after all.

If you can afford to self-medicate that's one thing. If you can't even afford to have a place to live or food to eat though I think it a very different situation. If a homeless and starving person isn't spending the money on food BEFORE booze or drugs then your generosity wasn't well spent.

I do expect something in return when giving them money. I expect them to get a decent meal or feed their familiy. If they only use the money for their own selfish drug or alcohol abuse I don't have any respect for them.

Call me an asshole but I never give them money. Don't push this "disadvantaged" stuff on me, because I don't believe it.

You have to make a series of conscious decisions to become homeless. Not only do you actively decide you don't want to work, because I see Now Hiring signs all over the place, but you have to burn every bridge in your life to become homeless. I don't buy everyone was thrown out on the streets by their parents. I don't buy these people were nicest people and simply could not find a friend who was willing to spare a couch for 6 months until they got back on their feet. I don't buy it that these people would spend my money in any way which improves their lives.

They have different priorities, and if those do not involve pulling one's own weight then they can do their thing. I will not, however, encourage said behavior. If a stranger wants to dance around on the freeway, is it generous of us to give them a tutu so they can dance better? Or should we get him out of the dangerous situation? I personally refuse to let my hard-earned money going to allowing them to get drunk/stoned/f-ed up to the same degree which landed them in the situation.

Forgive me, I must not be genuinely generous. I am in full support in giving a man a meal until he has learned how to fish. If, however, he ignores the fishing lessons and walks away he can do whatever he likes, he just won't get anymore meals.

Self medication is available for those with cars because those people with cars have worked, struggled, and improved their lives to afford it (Paris Hilton whores excluded).

Fuck no I don't. Get a job ya bums!

Because I was being generous, not moralistic.

So generosity is meant to be an investment? Is one supposed to get something out of being generous?

I'm fine with what you say here. But homeless people and panhandlers aren't the only ones with selfish drug or alcohol abuse problems.

While I agree with much of what you said following this, you don't seem to deny that there are many people who are homeless because they had to make a decision, such as leave home at 13 or get the shit beat out of you by Dad again.

So it is, then, reserved for the privileged?

I'd say that most generosity is meant to be an investment. At least, charitable generosity anyways. Would you give money to the Red Cross if you knew that none of your money was going to help needy people? Would you give to the Salvation Army if you knew your money was all going to pay the salary of the CEO? I sure as hell wouldn't.

If I'm giving away my hard earned money, I want to be damned sure about what it is being used for. Otherwise I might as well throw my money into a fire.

Honestly, I really don't understand how someone can just fork over their money mindlessly. Sure, the beggars may be less fortunate than you are, but are you really improving their situation by giving them money so that they can buy booze? Or are you just enabling them to stay beggars? If they can get what they want without doing any real work, why should they bother to do any real work or become a productive member of society? I sure as hell am not going to perpetuate beggary by giving away my loot.

I always give to musicians and people who preform some soft of talent - I've heard some incredible music, saw some cool magic tricks and even was lucky enough to catch some incredible acrobats while waiting for/riding the train.

For those who beg for money I usually give based upon their enthusiasm. There's no realistic way for me to discern whether or not they really need the money so if they beg with some enthusiasm and what seems like a real need for the money then I might be inclined to spare some change.

But for those who look at my expectingly without even a kind word get nothing but an uninviting gaze.

What about that working-class person with a family to support and the misfortune of developing a debilitating illness. Surely it's their fault that they're all out on the street and that's just the price they have to pay for not pulling their own weight. Right?

I can understand being a bit on the defensive simply because they're hassling you for money that's rightfully yours but you can't possibly be that devoid of empathy.

While they certainly do beg for your money, who's to say they'll refuse a kind word or an endearing look - or maybe even that half-eaten sandwich you didn't finish from lunch. You certainly would still be giving something away for nothing but what if that act of kindness was all it took for them to believe in themselves enough to better their situation?

In all my dealings with the homeless I've learned that most of them just want to be heard and treated like a normal person.

What "debilitating illnesses"? Name some.

If you're unfortunate enough to be homeless some day, I'll buy you dinner.

Have you ever met someone with severe schizophrenia? Psychotic people can be completely unable to help themselves and could easily lose family a job, etc. very quickly and end up a 'crazy' person on the street. Considering it has an occurrence of 7.5 and 16.3 cases per year per 100,000 population, it's not so uncommon that it cannot be linked to someone you may see on the street.

"here's 500$. get a hotel room. take a shower, shave, get clean, Buy a suit and get a job. If i see you on the street again, I'm going to kill you."

Most times, I don't believe a damn thing these people tell me to try to get my money, so most the time they don't get it. But on occasion, I find reason to help out.

Here's some examples from both sides....

First was the lady with her two kids trying the old "I need gas to get across town" bit on me. I asked her my standard "where's your car at" in an attempt to weed her out, but it was parked in the very parking lot I was standing it. I told her to meet me at the gas station on the corner where I gave the clerk $5 on the pump she was at.

Second was the guy who tried that "ran out of gas and need to get to Texas" bit. "Where's your car?" I asked. "Oh, it's about 4 miles down the road." Hmmmm, really? Why aren't you there asking for handouts instead of here. It was obvious bullshit, and he didn't get a dime from me.

Third was when I went through a drive through and was given a "bonus" in the form of an extra cheeseburger. I had to stop at a quick-mart for gas and there was a homeless guy there asking for money to buy food. I went back to the car and gave him the burger. He gulped it down in no time, so it was obvious he WAS hungry. I gave him another few bucks on top of it.

Heh-heh. Thank you MOAB for so eloquently stating an alternative to just "giving away" your hard-earned money to a beggar on the street. Not very pleased that you were first to state this, because I, too, had this idea in mind.

This idea that MOAB and I would put into action would most definitely solve the problem of perpetuating the problem of beggary, by actually "enabling" said beggar/homeless person to once-again become a productive member of society. If they should somehow, falter, however, or not even try to readjust his/her current deplorable situation and resort back to begging on the streets, then I would curse them for wasting my time, money, and emotional involvement into trying to help them.

Why just stop at buying them dinner? It would make more sense to teach them how to cook a decent dinner and then pay them for cooking it, than to offer them dinner whenever you so happen to feel generous. This is perhaps, another "enabler" for these beggars to stay beggars. Some may just rely on the good-natured aid of their fellow citizens, but then take advantage of the situation. They do this not by making requests, but by continuing "in-action" on their part. And that may be just as bad as not even glancing in their direction in the first place.

It shouldn't be a question of whether you feel like helping out the less advantaged when it suits you, but it is an issue of morality. It would be the right thing to help them, but to offer them food or few bucks is not in all reality helping their situation much. What needs to be done, is yes, perhaps, getting to know them, their situation, and then figure out a reasonable solution that will permanently keep them off the streets. If I need to invest a couple hundred dollars and weeks of my time, I want to be absolutely sure that they do not revert back to their "beggar days".
Cause I will go off!

So if you feel like giving a beggar a few extra dollars, go right ahead. But that would be the quick-and-easy solution for both of you. The lazy solution.
But if you feel like taking charge and actually want this 'disadvantaged soul' to benefit from your money, make sure it is a worthwhile investment that will result in a sense of satisfaction on behalf of the both of you.

ya know
i used to think," Oh, they'll get booze or drugs withthe money i give them"

then i looked at their situation..and sadly, sometimes i HOPED they bought booze or drugs bc i know if i were in the situation, almost any escape from reality would be welcomed..

i forgot where i read or saw that, but it made total sense to me. i'm not a huge fan of leftovers if i eat at a restaurant, so i'll give that away most of the time or if they just happen to hit me when i have some change or a buck or whatever. I won't take out my wallet bc that's generally a bad idea in the areas where i find homeless people.

I don't often give them money, but I'm not often asked. But I've never turned down anyone who asked for food. Even if it's just snacks that I already have with me. My dad taught me that, and I am teaching my kids that.

I have heard that many homeless/panhandlers prefer that way of life. Although it may be true for some, I believe that it isn't the case for many.

I knew a person who did fundraisers for a well known charity for homeless, but I can't remember the charity name off the top of my head now. He explained once that one big problem with homelessness is that many of them have mental problems and can't hold down a job. That our state mental hospitals used to keep them, but now they won't unless they are a direct threat to themselves or to others. They just evaluate them, then send the non-threatening ones out the door to fend for themselves. The ones who don't have family, or who don't have family who know about their dilemma, end up sleeping on park benches, etc.

There could be more to the story, and it does not apply to all homeless. But this is what he explained.

It depends on 1) whether I'm carrying any change or singles (which I'm often not) and 2) how they ask.

There are a wide variety of ways people ask for money in Chicago. There are some who try to trick you - start out by asking for help with directions, or say they're looking for pledges for some charity walk - and I almost never give them anything. It's not because I think they don't need it, or because I think they'll waste it on drugs or anything like that. I simply don't respect the deceitful way in which they ask.

On the other hand, there are a whole lot of people who are kind, respectful, and honest about it. To those people, I am much more likely to give money. Again, it's not so much that I think I have the right to judge the others, but I can't give to everyone I come across and this is how I filter people out. Furthermore, I'm most likely to give to those who are doing something for the money: performing at the El station, selling Streetwise, etc.

Awhile back, I read an article which I thought made a very important point. Regardless of whether or not you're going to give the person money, it's important to at least acknowledge their presence. Even something as simple as saying, "sorry, not today," goes a long way towards reaffirming the humanity of someone who has been pushed to the margins of society and is ignored by most everyone. Around where I went to school in Chicago, there were a few people who consistently hung out in particular locations, and they tended to be relatively friendly and non-demanding. I can only attribute this to the fact that they were treated as human beings by many of the students who passed them every day, to the point that some of them were known by name and quite popular among many students. Regardless of the money they are given (or not given as the case may be), this kind of human interaction is important in two ways: it not only reaffirms their worth as a human being, but it helps keep those who are more fortunate connected to those who are not doing as well in life.

ItWasMe: Sadly, Illinois suffers from a similar situation. :(

EDIT: Found the article:

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifesty...urrentPage=all

Being from a small city, that honestly has nearly zero people of this nature. So when I visited Washington DC it came to a shock to me of just how many of these people there are.

The problem is that the ones down there wouldnt just simply ask you for money, they'd follow you and not stop asking.

The point where they pissed me off and scared my gf.

No is my final answer.

I stopped giving money to the homeless. I used to stop and just chat with them sometimes because they tend to be invisible people that society doesn't see anymore including me today.

One of the things that solidified me stopping giving money was after Katrina we were travelling in the Philippines and India. When people heard us speak they knew right away we were Americans. The first thing they asked was, "How come poor people in America are so fat?"

(Edit: stupid touchpad ate the rest of the entry apparently)

On my travel to and from work I can encounter the same homeless people, about 5-8 of them. Some of them I have seen for over 10 years panhandling on the trains.

The other day we were at the Seaport with Aberkok, JustJess, Amonkie, Tecoyah, and some person called himself the deacon asked us to sign a petition, and asked for money for the children. I don't know how much was giving, I tossed in some quarters but didn't sign anything. Later when after I dropped them off at the train and I walked back to the bus, several under cover cops were tailing the "reverend" and arrested him.

Again, like shesus, very jaded to the plight of the homeless in NYC.

On special occasions, I will. We just had the NYC get together, and I will always take quarters to NYC with me for the street Musicians.

Another perspective...
 

I actually WAS homeless for about six months, and I was one of those kids who (at 17) was booted out, so yeah, I know those situations exist.

I cleaned up at a gas station and slept in a abandoned bus at a bus depot, which is where I kept a duffel bag with my stuff in it- stuff that consisted of about four changes of clothes.

When it was really cold, I found I could sleep in the garbage chute alcoves in apartment buildings if I rang a bunch of the buzzers, somebody would let me in.

I never panhandled, but I do remember once I had to go without food because I had no money. I got paid on the third day and finally managed to eat.
Don't get me wrong- I'm not looking for pity here, just trying to say there are situations that happen sometimes, and as a bright, educated, white kid from an upper middle class family, I can say it can happen to anybody. Could I have gone to a shelter? Maybe. Not that I knew of any.

Anyway, I don't worry if some panhandler is going to buy booze, smokes, drugs, or whores with the money I give them- I just make sure the money I give them is discretionary income- the kind I would spend on smokes, booze, etc. myself :)

I will generally ignore "pro" panhandlers. If I generally believe someone's in a bad situation and I can help them without costing myself too much, I will try to help. I know sometimes bad stuff happens to good people.

I always give them money when asked (if I have it) and I don't care what they spend it on.

I can honestly say i have never had the opportunity to give money to a panhandler as I have never seen one anywhere near where I live...see you gotta pipe sunshine in my neck of the woods. But if there was any panhandlers around here I would say yes i would give them money.

If they are asking for/depending on me to give them the funds to do so, then yes. I'm not going to give away my funds to give them anything I don't want to support/perpetuate.

If someone is going to ask me for money or support, then I get to make decisions as to how they use it. If they don't like it, then...they can refuse to ask for my money!

I appreciate what Jetstream said about enabling too.

Now, the mentally disturbed folks, it's wrong that they're homeless. I feel very bad for them. I understand that situation, but I usually can't help, or it would put me in a dangerous position to even try.

I won't give panhandlers money, but I'll sit down and have a drink with them.

Sometimes... if they have a good story. If I believe them. If I think they're being honest (i.e. "I need some beer." etc). I'm more likely to give leftovers and things like that. Food is always useful, no? But I rarely give to the ones I see regularly. Those piss me off, actually - find a new batch of people to harass!

I'm torn between kindness to others and "get a job you bum!". Hm.

I wish I could give an easy answer full of conviction, but basically it comes down to my gut feeling at the time.

I tend to say no more than yes, but always try to offer an explanation. I only give them the cold shoulder if they're aggressive, rude or obviously playing puppy dog.

I have been known to give from time to time, but mostly to the entertainers who are playing music, or some sort of show. never to the guy on the corner who is begging....except for one time. I had to give the guy props for his honesty. I was sitting at a light on the corner, and saw a gentleman who had the most original sign I have ever seen. It simply stated "WHY LIE? I WANT MONEY FOR BEER!" I laughed so hard and gave the guy a 5-spot for his honesty! True story!

I have two children that I plan to keep off the streets by putting every spare penny away for their college fund. I know a few bucks here and there won't count for much in the grand scheme of things, but with my children looking on, I just can't bring myself to teach them that getting money for simply having your hand out is OK.

On the other hand, I give to charity generously whenever I see a collector for abused wives and children or a shelter that needs supplies; when don't they?

I used to work in a popular fast food restaurant as a teen. The local panhandlers would come into our restaurant to buy pizza and beer, then "make use" of the bathroom with their shaving kit and scissors, often bathing themselves from the small sink and ALWAYS leaving a mess. The roll of 20s, 10s and 5s that was pulled out to buy their weekly pizza meal was staggeringly huge. On that note, you'd think they'd be more careful, so as not to attract attention to the fact that one's life savings are kept in a backpack. <shrug>

As for West Coast rudeness... I've experienced enough of that from panhandlers to look them dead in the eye and tell them that all my money goes to my kids. No one has said anything to the contrary and only one has ever complimented me on my decision to look after my children first. Besides, how many times can you hear that someone's wife and kids are "around the corner" and that they need "just a few dollars for gas" before your calluses become brick walls?

I stopped giving money to panhandlers, in general, after coming back from 2 months in Thailand in 1998. Why? Well, the "beggars" in Thailand were truly beggars... no pretending, there. Many of them were lepers who had already lost one, if not more, limbs, and were pretty much just lying on the sidewalk, unable to move (some of them were on skateboards, if they had no legs, so they could push themselves around). There are very few public services for people in Thailand, so no shelters or soup kitchens. Life SUCKED for those people. So look, if someone is missing a LIMB or two and wearing rags while most passersby nearly step or trip on them, I am going to give them money, yes.

However, when I came back to the US and saw "homeless" people who would be RICH if they lived in a 3rd world country, I got pretty jaded and bitter. No missing limbs, more than one change of clothing, shelters aplenty... I just couldn't muster up sympathy anymore for them, not after what I saw in Thailand (and have seen in every other developing country I've been to, since then). I know it sounds harsh, but American homeless people just don't cut it, in my book. There are way too many resources out there, compared to being poor/homeless in most other countries in the world. The only exception I can think of would be mentally disabled homeless, especially if they are veterans... but it's hard to know which ones those are. So I generally just don't give, in Western countries.

agreed, but this isn't about helping out the less fortunate. it's about giving money to the homeless/panhandlers/etc. i don't kid myself into thinking a buck is going to change someone's life. maybe it will help them through a day. frankly, i don't really give a shit what they do with the money. i've bought beer for them before. i've given them beer on my way home. i gave a guy a $10 cigar down in charleston, three handrolled cigarettes and a six pack of beer, then he and i did some yard work together. why? i don't know; seemed like a fun idea at the time. i don't mind giving away small amounts of money from time to time; i can afford it, and i enjoy it. i don't expect the homeless to become paragons of virtue based on my generous donation of $2. i just hope they enjoy their day a little more, when i do sporadically decide to hook them up.

Generally, I don't give money to panhandlers. Oregon has a very good system of social services, and so if you're on the street, it's largely a choice--especially around these parts. We have so many dirty crusty old hippies that you can't tell the difference between them and the homeless sometimes, and sometimes there are just people who like that nomadic lifestyle.

I really don't carry cash, and that is largely why I don't give out money, but also because they largely don't ask for it. Most homeless here turn in cans for money instead. Honestly, I'm more likely to give them food or to give them information about where they can go--where the mission is, where DHS is, where the drop-in shelter is.

And yes, we must be understanding and care for the homeless--over half of them suffer from debilitating mental illnesses, alcoholism, and an estimated quarter of them are Vietnam veterans. I have close friends with mental illnesses, and a great-aunt who suffered from schizophrenia, and I see how easy it would be for one of them to slip through the cracks, and become one of those homeless.

I don't know, for me it has nothing to do with sympathy or whether they are on the street by force or by choice. It's just my impulse to give when I'm asked for something that, ultimately, doesn't mean that much to me. I'd give a buck to a co-worker if they asked for it. Why not a stranger on the street? So I don't buy a pack of sour skittles that day or forego the bag of chips with my sandwich at lunch. I couldn't care less.

Granted, I don't live or work in an area with a lot of panhandlers so I totally understand the necessity of limiting what you give on a limited budget. I don't understand the compulsion to be mean-spirited about it. If you don't want to, don't give. Even if they've made a choice that this is what they want to do - their way of "making a living" - I can name quite a few "real jobs" that I, personally, find to be a more distasteful way of getting by.

in a related thought, what would bother me personally is the idea that i had become so shriveled up and angry at the world that i had time to get actively pissed off at some panhandler. i just can't bring myself to get angry at them, and i really do wish they'd get to a shelter or get on their feet. but i can't make them do that; only they can. the money i do give doesn't set me back, and i just frankly rather enjoy hooking other people up sometimes, even if i know they're going to do whatever in the fuck they're going to do with the money. let 'em spend on watching chicken porn. great. hope they enjoyed it. let them cut it up into little confetti and shove it up their ass to satisfy their anal/paperplay fetish. fantastic. my life is pretty good, so why should i get angry over this kind of thing?

I don't understand it either. I mean, it's a dollar; it's loose change. I don't live in an area with a lot of panhandlers or homeless either, but I imagine it can get pretty irritating seeing the same faces time after time. Even then, like you said, I also imagine you can just walk on by, right? I don't have to give 'Chuck' my last dollar yet again, do I? No need to grab the high horse and furiously pontificate like some.

Get mad all they want, in the end, they're only hurting themselves...the homeless guy couldn't care less what anyone thinks of them. Frankly, I've got enough on my plate without adding my righteous indignation for the guy on the corner I choose to give my pocket change to 2-3 times a week.

I will "donate" about 1 out of every 10 times i see them.

Can we discuss the other side of the issue now? We've thusfar only looked at personal reasons for homelessness. While there are many things we can argue regarding these (such as problems with "get a job"), we haven't mentioned problems inherent in the system that cause homelessness; namely, the cost of housing and healthcare. I don't live in the U.S., but I'm guessing that it must be hard for low-income families. Imagine not being able to find low-income housing and having health issues to boot. As a Canadian who grew up in a small town, I have trouble empathizing with people in dire situations. Healthcare has always been "free," and as a member of the lower-middleclass, low-income housing was never a need. Aren't there things governments could be doing better to help the homeless regarding these issues?

Some of them make more than me.

In any case, I'm more likely to hand them my leftovers after dinner at a restaurant than actually giving them money. If I gave money to everyone who asked for it, I'd be pretty fuckin broke.

I have a friend who hands some guys 5's and 10's when he's asked. I don't think that's very economical.

Well you'd be surprised how much funding goes to social programs that these people could easily get.

Texas is very conservative, however 60% of our budget goes to social programs. Medicare, Medicaid, Texas Assistance for Needy Families, et al provide all but free healthcare for the poor. No there's no universal health care, but if you make less than 28k a year you'll qualify, so that's no excuse.

Austin has a huge homeless problem because it's liberal and people give lots of money to beggers. The city pays for free housing for those who apply, you get 6 months free of rent and utilities. Two years ago they had to drop half of the housing. Why you ask? It wasn't budget issues, it's because 4 out of 5 rooms are unoccupied. The homeless don't apply because you are given 6 months to find a job, they don't want a job.

I talked to a begger one day as we were in line at HEB (grocery store). He said he makes usually $7-15 per hour begging, all tax free. I make $7.50/hr at one job, and am unpaid at my other (internship). I work two jobs, and go to school (paying it in full myself).

THAT is why I don't give them money. Yes, my hard work will (hopefully) pay off. He, at the moment, is much much much more wealthy than I am and he refuses to work.

Public funds devoted to people down on their luck go unused because the stipulation that they must find a job within 6 months. 60% of our budget go to social welfare programs which ensure that people who need it don't go wanting.

Yes, some of the homeless have mental problems. I pay my taxes, and when I have money will donate to charities. Until then I refuse to give money who make more than I do by doing nothing.

I always give panhandlers change if I have it, as chances are that they need it much more than I do. It doesn't matter to me what they do with it thereafter.

On a side note, I pray some of you guys and gals don't end up homeless and have to suffer through some of the responses given in this thread :|

Well, according to what many us believe when it comes to beggars, he was most likely lying.

It's good to know that Texas has good programs. I've heard many good things about Texas in general. However, is it safe to assume this is the case across the country? I doubt it.

As some evidence, I found this data on the housing crisis that occurred in Toronto. It was one of many factors of homelessness, yet look how much of an impact it had:

• Between 1996 and 2001, Ontario lost 44,780 rental units, of which 17,515 were in the greater Toronto area, where the population increased by 9.6% over that time period.
  
• Between 1997 and 2001, Toronto rents rose by 31% - more than double the 14% rate of inflation for the same period. Today, only 20% of private rental apartments rent for less than $800 a month.
  
• Since 1997, the increase in monthly rent for an average two-parent, two-child family rose $225. Among conventional one-bedroom units, average rent rose $220 over six years, to $894 in 2002.
  
• In the past three years, 873 new rental-housing units were built in the Toronto area (3% of new housing construction), as compared to 28,492 for the home-ownership market (97% of new housing construction).
  
• In Toronto, 49% of all households are tenants. Since 1996, the overall supply of rental housing actually decreased by 5,000 units.
  
• While vacancy rates in Toronto have climbed to about 2.4% this is not as heartening as it may appear. For units at the low end ($400 to $800) the vacancy rate is at about 1%, while the vast bulk of the vacancies are in the $1,200 to $1,600 range. As an indication of how tight the rental market has become, in 1996 units under $800 made up more than 65% of the market; today they make up only about 20% (49,100 of 250,500 units).

Now take all of this and consider another factor: for years, real wages have been stagnant if not eroding.

Things have certainly changed since then. The rental market has opened up, to say the least. I'm unsure about the low-rent units. But what does it matter if you're already homeless and out of work? Or, homeless and working part-time at minimum wage...

I'm not singling you out here, but I don't understand this at all. You're not giving to the poor because there are poorer people in third world countries? I would've thought that being exposed to cases of extreme poverty in third world countries would make you more willing to address the poverty situation in your own country.

Edit: Granted, I'm not stating that you should start a full-on "War against poverty", but rather you show compassion to the people who are less fortunate than yourself.

i just want to take an aside to recognize this moment when infinite_loser and i agree on something. this has been another great moment in hook-up history. :thumbsup:

Tell them it's because the cheapest food here is also the worst for you. Ramen noodles, fast food, and pizza are fattening. Not that fast food is that cheap, but if I had no kitchen that's what I'd be eating (if anything).

I help with spare change on a case by case basis. I value our veterans, but I get really irritated when people use that as the reason people should help them... One man approached me at a restaurant for money. He couldn't have been older than about 25. He said he was a veteran, but looked perfectly healthy. He was irritated at my offer to buy him food (with my debit card). I turned down the request for money, feeling uneasy to let him see what I had.

I did help a lady once who didn't ask me for help. My sister and I were standing in line for a free movie preview. Free, so there was a long line. The old lady behind us in line looked like she was homeless or very low income, by her general appearance. I sent my sister across the street to McDonald's to get a few breakfast burgers. I ate one in line, worrying about how to give her one without insulting her. Because I could have been wrong about her appearance. I finished mine, and turned to chat with her. Told her that I'd forgotten to eat breakfast, and was so hungry I ordered more than I could eat. I asked her if she remembered to eat breakfast. She said she forgot, too, and was very happy to have the rest of my bag.

Are you serious? If you dangled $500 in front of a bum and told him to shower, shave and get a hotel room, you really think he is going to do all that? Or do you think he is going to say whatever it takes to get the money and then do whatever the fuck he wants with it? Are you really that naive?

Also, what is this nonsense about teaching a bum how to cook? What good is knowing how to cook if you live under a bridge?

dude carno: sterno. its not just for drinking anymore. which makes me want a fried fucking bologna sammich something fierce right now.

thanks for the reminder!

What the heck are you going to "teach" them how to cook? Filet mignon?

How does homelessness = not knowing how to cook? I don't think people become homeless by not knowing how to cook, so I don't understand why one would assume that a bum doesn't know how to cook.

i'd teach them how to make beef jerky. not only do i really like homemade beef jerky, but i'd think that shit would keep pretty well.

oh, you mean seriously? i have no fucking idea.

Maybe we could start a program where the bodies of dead bums are turned into Soylent Green and fed to other bums?

Eh? Good idea, huh?

I think it's always important when having these kinds of discussions to realize that many (if not most) of the people you see panhandling on the streets are there BY CHOICE. They travel, they don't work "regular jobs," they are drop-outs from society. Just because a person is begging on the street doesn't mean they are pitiable and just need a hand-up from a kind soul to get them back on their feet. Not to belittle the very real fact that there are true homeless people - those who are not able to work, or work enough to feed, clothe and shelter themselves and/or their family, including the mentally ill.

Where I live, virtually all of the people we would call "homeless" are of the former variety and I'm going to venture to guess that many people begging on the streets in other places are, as well.

Still, I fail to see what is so deplorable about choosing this life for yourself. What harm does it do to you? Really. In real terms, and let's not quibble about the extra pennies you pay in taxes to cover their health expenses because it's very likely, if these folks were living "normally," that they would still be assisted by government programs. It can't be that you're jealous of their lifestyle, can it? I sure as hell am not, and I don't care how much money they are making.

I agree that it is a farfetched method and an extreme alternative to just doling a few bills, but I posted it because I have actually witnessed it work. I don't believe I stated in my 'hypothetical situation' that the beggar would recieve any money from me at all; it is in reality, a crutch that serves to aid the individual that so happens to be brought about by spending some money. Hypothetically, I would only propose to the beggar an alternative to their current lifestyle. In my experience when living in NY, MD, and FL, I personally approached eight homeless men, women, and one teen if they would like an opportunity to work. Most said no right away and walked away, while a few made suspicious inquiries as to my motives, yet requested more iinformation. Of the nine approached, seven had actually submitted to some financial and supplementary aid within a period of five months. Of those seven, I have certain knowledge that five of them have rebuilt their lives and are faring quite well with their former/new families, while one is still struggling to obtain a steady grasp on a normal life again, yet it was only the one other homeless man who couldn't firmly regain a foothold on life, and subsequently passed away after relapsing on drugs. So, it would seem as though my method of total moral involvement as opposed to a mere fleeting gesture of pity towards the disadvantaged does not seem to be that ludicrous or naive. I have no disillusions about their situation and their perspective on life, but to deny them the opportunity to work to regain what was lost to them, all the while having concerned citizens there to support them along the way, well... I could not stand to take such an apathetic approach.

This was merely used as a 'for instance' example that if said "bum" could gain some useful skills in life that were denied to him because of how modern society negatively views him, then he could perhaps stand a chance to shake off the yoke of impoverishment that he has been burdened with for so long. I'm sure that a bum who can do five tricks as opposed to none will eventually be the given opportunity for something better by applying greater resources.

Oh, well.. that is only my approach to the communities in which I have lived.
I do it because I was once in that very situation when I was a child myself, when no one else would turn a blind eye towards me and stop to even exchange a simple pleasantry. If not for the kindness, generosity, and compassion of our fellow man, I would not be here to debate the situational "what-if" occurence of encountering yet another panhandler.




These are the life lessons that have become instilled
within my character after numerous ground-shattering
yet enlightening experiences within my own life.
...Or... perhaps, I am just that naive.

Not giving someone $2 is hardly denying them the opportunity to regain what they once had, so you can stop with that nonsense.

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I really can't agree with anything you are saying.

Heh... Agreed. :thumbsup:

Since when does "compassion" involve giving spare change to random people on the street? What I was saying was that I felt compelled to give money to people with lost limbs and therefore totally and clearly disabled in 3rd world countries. I did not say that I don't believe in HELPING people in general, in the US.

Before I moved to podunk middle-class college town for grad school (almost no homeless people at all, and where I gave money to the Red Cross and other charities instead), I held volunteer positions where I helped teach GED lessons for homeless teenagers, as well as tutored English lessons in low-income housing for Somali refugees who were on and off the streets. If I saw either the teens or refugees on the street, no, I would not give them money. But yes, I would give them several hours from my week to try and give them skills that would get them out of their situation. To me, that's more "compassionate" than flipping a quarter to some dude every day, but each to his own.

If I have the chance to live in or near a big city again, I would actively look for a similar kind of volunteer situation, and still refuse to give people money on the street. Reykjavík is a big city, but it doesn't count because the social services are so strong here that there are virtually NO homeless people, period. Yes, poverty exists here, but they are not out on the street thanks to 40% income taxes, which I gladly pay. If taxes increased to 40% in the US in order to help less-fortunate people, I would gladly pay that as well. But I am just not going to hand out money to random people who "appear" to be in need, with 4 working limbs to help get them to a place where they can get food or learn skills, when I have no idea what their situation really is.

Rarely, if ever. I'll give to street musicians or performers because at least they are out there trying. And I've given food several times, but I find it difficult to give them money.

The arguments that governments don't do enough, or we should give and not care what destructive behavior follows do not make sense to me. The social welfare systems in the US are extensive, and not confined to Texas. They are, in fact, in EVERY state. As far as the cost of healthcare contributing to homelessness, that is simply untrue. It is illegal for a hospital to turn away a patient just because they have no health insurance. MN has three separate taxpayer funded medical programs for low income citizens, and we are not alone.

Most people living on the streets are there either because they choose to live that way, or they consistently make choices that prevent them from conforming to mainstream society. There's a myriad of agencies and programs (both government and privately funded) out there to help people get back on their feet after a setback. The ones that benefit from these programs are the ones that are willing and able to work, or if they are disabled they are willing to abide by the rules. Beds in shelters are denied to those who insist on disruptive behavior (substance abuse, sex, fighting, etc).

The bottom line for me, though, is that I don't want to enable destructive behavior. And it is not about moral judgments either. How do I know that the next fix won't result in a cardiac arrest or HIV infection? Am I supposed to feel good about contributing to that? Should I feel good about contributing to the destruction and death of an individual who doesn't care if they live or die?

that's my 2 cents

Never. It's MY drug money, dammit!

Michael Pollan wrote a great piece on this fact in this week's New York Times Magazine: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/ma...ne&oref=slogin

Here is a bit from the article:

Okay, this conclusion of this article seemed a bit silly to me. Is it suggesting that people on a really tight budget will only live off of things such as pop and chips? There is more to the problem than this. For example: what social group typically has a problem of poverty? One answer is single mothers. What's a single mother to do when she's working two jobs and raising two kids? Convenience foods are cheap and fast. But to say that healthy food isn't cheap isn't quite true. Rice, oats, beans, canned meats, frozen vegetables... these are all pretty cheap, aren't they? But you do need to prepare them. Also, when you're stressed out because you're not sure if you can pay the rent this month (yet again), junk food is also comfort food.

"...the most rational economic strategy is to eat badly — and get fat." The most rational? Poppycock.

When I was a college student I made the mistake of giving money to a panhandler one day. Of course I'd see him again off campus on the street but this time he'd target me every time. And then he'd curse me out if I ignored him... go figure.

Later I'd carry around fresh fruit or bread for myself - but if I saw a panhandler I'd offer them some food instead.

Years later I got over my "upper class guilt." There are other ways to give back to the community or the poor than tossing a few coins at a stranger. Volunteer work and public service take more dedication and are more effective ways of addressing the situation.

I do, within reason.

I once gave a panhandler money on the pretense that it was to help support his child, but later found out he just went to the bar and spent it on alcohol.

Regardless, if I make the decision to give them some money, and do, the money is then theirs to do with as they please. It seems silly to give someone money, but take offense when they use it a way other than was intended. If I give someone a few bucks and they blow it on beer, that's their decision, and perhaps it's also why they remain homeless; but ultimately, it's their life to live.

I'm consistently surprised to see how much "It's their life, their decisions to do with the mony what they want " attitude...without the focusing on they are *Begging* for money they didn't earn (btw, is there a real difference between beggars and panhandlers?). I'm talking about the folks who just walk up and ask for money.

Really. Some complete stranger can just walk up to you guys (general "you", of course) and request a donation, and do whatever they want with what's given without you guys feeling like there is any sense of accountability (not talking about mentally ill here)? And it's considered bad to not just give as asked?

Seems rather like enabling to me.

I've gone hungry and been without necessities(not homeless though), and it never even occured to me to ask a stranger for a hand out.

I'm with you on this. I don't give money. I do, however, give food/water. I've had a couple get insulted over it, and I've also seen tears in the eyes of a man who I bought a sandwich for at a grocery store.

Aren't we all being enabled in some way?

Nope, no accountability, but I've alreadly expressed that I don't resent their way of life. And, they aren't all junkies and alcoholics.

Your last statement I think is an important point. Most people are not going to live the transient lifestyle no matter how bad things get. There's only a certain percentage of people who will end up this way - and I am not referring to true homeless or mentally ill people - but the people that used to be referred to as "hobos." I can live with that percentage of people dropping out and getting by with handouts on the street. And sure, some of them are assholes and rude, but so are a lot of people with jobs and homes. *shrug*

I give money to women. When i see them, I think that could be me,or my mother, or my sister, or my friend-- all it would take was one or two breakdowns and you've got nothing.
We kick our mental patients out of instituations and say 'here, you're free, go take on that world". Yeah, living in a tenament where you're locked out from 9 - 5 and sharing a living space with god knows who.
When there is no real hope in your life and you've got nothing, wouldn't you spend every last bit of money on some drug to at least make the pain bareable? I think I can spare a loonie (one Canadian dollar) for that.

You already said you don't live in an area where there are a lot of bums... I wonder if your opinion would change if a bunch of bums decided to live near you...

The biggest problem I have with people is that they're sometimes disillusioned when it comes to the homeless (Once again, I'm not singling you out). Whenever I hear the statement "People are homeless because they choose to be!" I simply want to slap the person who said (Or typed) it. Yes, some people are homeless and hungry by choice but, then again, most are not. Anyone can end up homeless. I don't try to qualify anyone's actions, as it's hard for me to say what I would do if I were homeless (I'd probably start begging as well).

You know... I'd love to see a couple of people here stripped of their 'wealth' and left on the streets of a foreign country to fend for themselves. I'm pretty sure that'd change their tunes.

(Oh, and for the record, I realize that not all panhandlers are homeless. However, I also believe in divine retribution. If the person truly isn't in need of that money, then it'll catch up with them.)

Well, you may wonder. And please don't take this the wrong way, but I can tell you most definitively that you and I have vastly different ways of looking at this issue (and others) - ways that are based on our own personal assumptions, tolerance levels and values. Due to this fact, I don't think it's likely that my feelings would change drastically if I were around more bums. Just as yours would not if you were around fewer bums.

What the fuck does a foreign country have to do with anything? I've seen poor people in Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Mexico. Poor people in third world countries are in a whole different class than poor people in the United States.

Also, I have a feeling that those who said they wouldn't blindly give money to beggars would easily find a way to get a job and get back on their feet. If I were homeless I wouldn't beg for money. I'd walk my ass to McDonalds and get a fucking job.

Huh? Because we have different opinions, your opinion wouldn't change if you lived near more bums? I don't understand.

And, just for the record, just because I am not living in an area with a high population of transients does not mean I am never in these areas. Everytime I go downtown I am asked for money. And I lived near downtown for 8 years in a home in which it was not unusual to regularly find transients sleeping in or simply traversing the backyard. It's never bothered me.

Uh, no dude. Because we have different ways of looking at the world and the people in it. I don't think I made it difficult to understand. In fact, I think I said it quite plainly.

And to go a little further with it, it's a little insulting to infer that I would be "more like you" if my situation were a little different. I am quite definitely who I is.

I think you read a bit too much into what I was saying. I'd simply like to see a few people placed in an unfamiliar area and left to fend for themselves. It doesn't have to be a foreign country, as that was simply an example.

If life were only that simple, eh? The biggest problem the homeless face is that employers typically don't want to hire them. It's always easy to say what you would do when you don't have to do it, hence why I'd like to see you stripped of whatever wealth/possessions you own and forced to live on the streets. I'd be quite interested to see what would happen.

I know you said you aren't singling me out, but you are quoting me, so I am responding.

I never said that people choose to be homeless. I am well aware of the circumstances by which many people become homeless. My whole point was that I don't give money to street people in Western countries, because I don't think giving out random change will change a thing, especially when there are services and an infrastructure for helping those people (and especially when they are bodily able to work, unlike people lacking limbs in 3rd world countries). I would much rather contribute to those services, whether by my own time or giving money if I don't have time, than give handouts on the street.

Did you read the part in my post about compassion being more than flipping a coin, and that volunteering some hours of one's week seems a lot more compassionate to me? There was no response to that section of my post.

Uh, apparently not plainly enough. I was simply wondering if your opinion would change if you lived near more bums, and then you replied that since we are different, your opinion would not change.

I was not inferring anything, you are making shit up in your mind.

Dude, did it ever occur to you that your initial question was simply you "making shit up in your mind"? No? Hmm.

I answered it plainly. NO, I do not think my opinion would change because I've lived with myself thinking largely the same way on this issue (regardless of my proximity to bums) for 41 freakin' years and I think I've got a grip on how I think and react in most situations. Capice?

I donate to a number of charities to that cater to the homeless, but I never give money to panhandlers. I always say, "Sorry, nothing for you" when asked. It's relatively honest. I have money, but none for them. I don't feel obligated by the asking. I generally find panhandling to be rude, but I understand that they have a right to ask me for money and I have a right to say no.

I've often heard that people "don't see" the panhandlers. I see the people standing on the side of the road with signs, but I feel no obligation to look at them any more than I would feel an obligation to look at anyone else.

On a separate issue, people often use "the homeless" and "panhandlers" interchangeably. Of course, they're not. Panhandlers likely represent a small fraction of the homeless. We don't see many of the homeless simply because they're not the ones asking us for change. Somewhere I've seen stats...

I once saw some bums drinking isopropyl openly on the walk leading to the capitol in Madison, WI. I almost threw up. We make our own paths.

There seems to be a lot of talk about comparing countries. Is that a fair comparison? Poor is poor is poor. If you can't afford food, you don't have appropriate clothes, and you rarely have a roof over your head...you're poor no matter where you live. I'm sure that a person sleeping in a doorway in Chicago isn't thinking, "Wow, I'm so lucky to be homeless here because people in *insert 3rd world country here* have it much worse." They're probably thinking, "My life sucks ass and I wish the concrete wasn't so hard."

Also, I'm sure that there are people in 3rd world countries who are homeless because they have fucked up just like there are people in the states who are homeless because of something out of their control. There are disabled panhandlers everywhere missing limbs or wheelchair bound.

I guess I just don't understand the discussion. Unless it's just a way to list all the things one has done and places one has visited to become worldly and compassionate. It would make much more sense to discuss how some countries have virtually no homelessness because the governement helps the citizens out instead of leaving them to fend for themselves during a bump in life. I mean the American dream is great for some, but a nightmare for others.

to answer the op question: sometimes i give folk money, sometimes i dont--sometimes i cant, usually for stupid reasons. the reasons are always situational.

but that seems like it's problematic as an explanation through much of the thread, and once "bigger" explanations started to float about here, the thread became quite problematic in my view. most if not all of the more sanctimonious posts seemed to rely entirely on petit bourgeois "common sense" with the effect of showing once again why petit bourgeois "common sense" aint worth shit.

people like to pretend that what they see is self-contained, that what is means is somehow within what they see and so requires no effort to understand. this is never the case--but it is most obviously not the case when you are dealing with a social phenomenon or problem--panhandling--which may or may not have anything to do with homelessness--is an aspect of a very considerable social problem in the states. anyone who is awake knows this: but rather than think about it, many folk above seem to have taken the lazy way out and decided to simply blame these folk for the situation they are in. had the op sollicited nasty and repellent class prejudices, then most of the responses above that follow the "its their own fault" argument would have been germaine--but as characterizations of anything beyond that, they, like the petit bourgeois "common sense" they lean on, aint worth shit.

so let's say that there is some cross-cover between the categories homelessness and panhandling.

so some numbers on homelessness in the states:



source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeles..._United_States

the footnote links are live in the original, so the data can be chased, and there is an extensive bibliography.

poverty understood in absolute terms is poverty not understood at all. you might read this piece by amartya sen for a very compelling argument as to why this is the case:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=001...3E2.0.CO%3B2-7

jstor is an academic database: if you have access to it via a university library, the download is free...the paper version is pretty iwdely available in most bigger libraries. i put up the link for the bibliographic information.

one of the things he argues in this paper is that poverty in the united states is considerably worse than poverty in many "third world" countries not because of the material situations in each--whcih you cannot take in isolation (sorry)--but rather because of the socio-cultural position created around poverty in the states--the claim becomes really clear if you read the piece.

has anyone seen the last southpark episode? season11-episode07. it's a great one about homeless and how they're always asking for change...

and to everyone who commented on my post: that is a quote from the movie Suicide Kings. the dude saying that is a mob boss so he's super wealthy. I thought it was funny and to someone educated enough to do a job, it could be the help they need. eitherway, I don't give my money because i'm never sure of what they'll do with it. Id rather buy them food directly.

To answer the topic's question
 

Nope, sure don't. Never have, never will.

Roach, yes my statements might have been inflammatory, and may have been taken not as intended.

My argument is we have plenty of social programs for the poor. Those classified as poor already pay almost nothing (or nothing at all) in taxes. They have free, or almost free healthcare. There are government, and civilian job placement programs. There are free, or almost free, housing available for anyone who can find a job within 6 months.

Every one of us can think of at minimum ONE friend or family member who would be more than willing to take us in and help us in a time of need. As one member pointed out here he was in an abusive situation with his father and ran away (fully justifyable). However I'm sure he could have, at any time, found a cousin/aunt/uncle/grandma/etc who would have been more than willing to take them in and protect them. We have social services to ensure that he could have legal protection from his father.

With this huge safety net (which I fully support), there should be very very few people out there who fall through the cracks. As I said, here in Austin we've shut down a bunch of low-to-no income housing projects because they were left vacant, yet on every corner you see a bum begging for money.

One can say that homeless won't get hired, but I don't believe it. They have free housing for 6months by simply showing a work slip, this includes utilities. 6months is plenty of time to get a shave/haircut/shower and finally a job.

The mentally ill is a problem and will always be one, but how many are there simply because they were addicted to drugs and/or alcohol? How many are there because they are too stubborn to allow a boss to tell them what to do?

Basically I see it as we all give plenty in social programs which ensure the money goes to those who need, and work for, it. I don't give to them because I don't know which are truely vets, or which are simply lazy. I don't have the time to figure it out, so I'll let the social programs do it if these people apply.

One time I gave money to a bum because he helped me find a parking space in DC. I used to go to Baltimore and have "take a bum to dinner" night where I'd take the first person that asked me for money to a restaurant in the local club district and feed them whatever they wanted on the menu. That way I knew my money was going for the good of the person. Sometimes the bums would refuse and be pissed that I wouldn't just give them the money, but most of them were appreciative. I had some really interesting conversations during those dinners too.

I dont usually give them money.
I'll usually offer to buy them some of whatever they are asking for. More often then not they turn me down.

bought a guy a subway sandwich once.

another time some guys at the walmart parking lot asked for money for gas, I told them they could follow me to the gas station down the road and I'd buy em enough gas to get to the town they said they were going to. they declined the offer and were gone when I got out of walmart...

If they've got a specific pitch and I happen to have an object meeting the goal of their quest, I'll usually offer it to them. I've given away a fair bit of food, a pair of shoes, a jacket, and a ride to a gas station.

I have given money, but not for several years.

I'm with you, abaya.

Never. I used to always give to panhandlers until I was exposed to the "other side". The fact is that most homeless that truly care are taking advantage of the many programs and forms of assistance out there for them. The panhandlers choose to live in the street because they don't like following the rules and curfews, which -- much as I hate to say -- means they'd rather take their chances if they can buy themselves a bottle of booze.

I'm not totally cruel, though. If there's fast food around, I will offer to buy them a burger. Nine times out of ten, they turn it down. They're saving up for the next bottle. :(

I, unlike a lot of people, actually pay artist/musicians for the music I download, so I don't have money for panhandlers anyway. However, if you're a music pirate, if you're going to avoid giving money to the artist, give money to a bum. Then argue with your morals about who really deserved that money :p

In the grand old US of A, nothing is denied you if you have the will, the determination and the persistance to go get it:





Very, very, very few people are incapable of contributing to society in some way or another.

Knowing that people like in the above links exist makes me VERY reluctant to give money those who are unwilling to work.

Full disclosure: I have not read this thread in it's entirety. This is my failing I'll admit, but as my thought is largely tangential to what's been said already I think I can get away with it, and I just don't have the will right now to read a lot of drawn-out statement and in-depth articles.

My problem with giving money to homeless people stems from an internal conflict. I have a charitable nature, but I also have a drive to seek efficiency. Simply handing out change to panhandlers on the street is inefficient; for one, I simply don't have enough change, nor can I do this on a regular basis (as my little town doesn't have any panhandlers). Further to that, it doesn't really solve the problem. The homeless person who receives my change (or my sandwich, for that matter), is still homeless.

I don't pretend to know how to address this. I sorely wish I did. When I was younger and more idealistic I tried to formulate plans to help homeless people get out of their dire circumstances. I have thus far been unable to come up with anything workable. Therefore, like Manic_Skafe, given my limited funds, I employ a selection process based on the perceived merits of the individual. I would argue that people who sing or play a guitar or perform magic tricks or do the human statue routine have elevated themselves from the status of panhandler to that of street performer, and are deserving of pay given that they provide a service. Therefore I'll more readily throw a dollar to someone who does something like this than someone who complacently sits next to a sign. I am charitable by nature, but only to a point; nobody is entitled to my money but me, and people who think they're entitled to my handout will get a rude awakening.

I've also asked homeless people for directions in exchange for a dollar on occasion. I would argue that this is more meritorious. It's easier to feel like a person when you provide a service for the money received.

One year around Christmas, I gave a panhandler $20. A day later, I saw him in a bar, drunk as a skunk . A few weeks later, I needed some help putting in a lot of gravel at my house (10,000 sf yard - 25 tons of decomposed granite) I offered half a dozen 'homeless' guys begging on the street medians $10/hr to come help me carry and rake it. They all laughed at me - told me they could make twice that by staying where they were and not breaking a sweat.

That was 10 years ago, and ever since then, I haven't given a cent to anyone with a cardboard sign - regardless of what's written on it.

The only exception - I did go back to drop off 20 cans of dog food once to a guy who had a puppy tied up next to him. I offered to take the puppy off his hands, but he said it was a "good prop."

I think I've given it once or twice. There are too many people in Chicago who ask for it. It's weird, because I always feel guilty when I walk past...

There have been four threads so far on this very topic. This is the best so I'm bumping it. I have started seeing more and more panhandlers with signs saying "homeless vet, HELP!" and such around here. Maybe it's because I work in the big city now, (If you consider Raleigh a big city) but then I still don't give them any money. I eat a lot of fast food and the joints I get my fast food from knows me as a religious member and they give me coupons. I also collect a lot of coupons during fast food promotions and such. To ease my fat ass conscience, I give them the coupons. They usually require no purchase. Then there's this technique ...

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