Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community (https://thetfp.com/tfp/)
-   General Discussion (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/)
-   -   Imagining the 10th Dimension (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/111310-imagining-10th-dimension.html)

hobo 12-06-2006 05:51 PM

Imagining the 10th Dimension
 
http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php

Cool flash video that goes from 0 to 10 and explains it without technical jargon so we can understand.

FoolThemAll 12-06-2006 06:32 PM

Cool. Makes me want to re-read Douglas Adams' Mostly Harmless.

bobby 12-06-2006 07:01 PM

string theory is hard to understand,but seems to expain a lot of things

.............vibrations !!!


xoxoxoo

Zeraph 12-06-2006 07:14 PM

Very nice, very cool. Thank you for posting it. By far the best explaination I've seen.

TexanAvenger 12-06-2006 07:51 PM

I actually finally understand (albeit a simplified version of) it. I'm very impressed with the makers of this.

Kinda makes me want to buy a book...

ObieX 12-06-2006 08:13 PM

Finally it makes .. sense.. kinda.. i'll let you know after my brain has finished imploding and reverts to its normal state.

filtherton 12-06-2006 08:35 PM

It should be noted that string theory, which at this point is pretty unverifiable, is more math than actual physics, and even amongst string theorists there isn't any consensus about how many different dimensions there theoretically are. Therefore all this multi dimensional stuff should be taken with a grain of salt.

Seaver 12-06-2006 08:40 PM

String theory makes the Bible look scientific.

Ch'i 12-06-2006 09:14 PM

You have to understand String Theory in order to understand M (Membrane) Theory, which is basically a unification of the four String Theory equations.


Nice flash.

aberkok 12-06-2006 09:43 PM

....and I'm spent!

xepherys 12-07-2006 07:09 AM

Wow, that's really... wow! I love physics, and I've seen similar info, but this was put together really well. I may need to read the book.

CandleInTheDark 12-07-2006 08:31 AM

So a 10th dimensional being would have complete and total control over it's past, present and future?

xepherys 12-07-2006 08:35 AM

Candle,

Yeah, that's about the sum and total of it. True Omnipresence and omniscience would come from being 10-dimensional (at least as far as it's understood currently).

Lasereth 12-07-2006 10:47 AM

We can't even design a spaceship to get out of our solar system. How are scientists trying to prove that multiple dimensions exist when we still don't know shit (comparitively) about our galaxy? This all seems a bit far-fetched. I'm no scientist, but seriously, how can you spend time and research hours on something that is unbelievably not empirical? There's nothing but human-made math to back this up. I guess this sorta goes for all astronomical theories that can't be proven though.

Ch'i 12-07-2006 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth
We can't even design a spaceship to get out of our solar system. How are scientists trying to prove that multiple dimensions exist when we still don't know shit (comparitively) about our galaxy? This all seems a bit far-fetched. I'm no scientist, but seriously, how can you spend time and research hours on something that is unbelievably not empirical? There's nothing but human-made math to back this up. I guess this sorta goes for all astronomical theories that can't be proven though.

Well, since we don't know that much we have to go out on limbs and make the best and most educated guesses we can. We've been doing it since some lunatic cave man made a wheel.

Seaver 12-07-2006 01:11 PM

Quote:

So a 10th dimensional being would have complete and total control over it's past, present and future?
Um... I thought the 4th dimension was time travel.

Quote:

Well, since we don't know that much we have to go out on limbs and make the best and most educated guesses we can. We've been doing it since some lunatic cave man made a wheel.
Yes, but what we have here is a sum which does not equal the solution. So the solution to the problem is change the solution.

3+3 does not equal 7. We all know this. The problem with string theory is they get 3+3 must equal 17. We know that does not make sense, so they say there are unknowns out there that we can not comprehend, so it actually equals 17 only we can not properly rationalize it... but the answer is actually 17.

So, as I said earlier... it makes the Biblical seem scientific.

Frosstbyte 12-07-2006 02:40 PM

Unless you can show me a PhD in math or in physics, I'm not inclined to believe that you have even a fraction of the background and knowledge required to understand string theory enough to make the claim that "it makes the Biblical seem scientific."

You're welcome to your opinion about the theory, but please, discuss that opinion. I'm neither a mathematician nor a physicist, but I look at it and it makes some sense to me. How do you come to the conclusion that string theory makes "3+3 must equal 17?" It's a theory, it has gaps. Where it doesn't have gaps, it does seem to make some sense-to me at least. Do you subscribe to an alternate theory that fills in some of those gaps? Or one that contradicts it?

It's very apparent to you that it claims 3+3=17, which we know is wrong. It's not so clear to me either that it claims that or that it's absolutely wrong.

filtherton 12-07-2006 02:50 PM

I think that maybe seaver is referring to the fact that some of the information contained within the bible is more readily verified than the assertions made by string theorists.

Personally, i'm not so sure how they can get away with calling string theory a theory. Seems like it should be more of a conjecture.

Charlatan 12-07-2006 02:50 PM

Seaver, as I understand it, the fifth dimension is time travel. The 10th, to us, is omniscience, all possibilities, all realities.

Ch'i 12-07-2006 02:54 PM

Quote:

Yes, but what we have here is a sum which does not equal the solution. So the solution to the problem is change the solution.

3+3 does not equal 7. We all know this. The problem with string theory is they get 3+3 must equal 17. We know that does not make sense, so they say there are unknowns out there that we can not comprehend, so it actually equals 17 only we can not properly rationalize it... but the answer is actually 17.
Yeah I know. I'm not saying the String or M Theories are correct; I'm saying that we have to start somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton
Personally, i'm not so sure how they can get away with calling string theory a theory. Seems like it should be more of a conjecture.

Very understandable; did you ever here about the scientific communities' acceptance of the current, ridiculously flawed, not-even-a-theory for gamma-ray bursts? Its absurd.

Charlatan 12-07-2006 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch'i
I'm still pretty miffed at the scientific communities' acceptance of the current, and ridiculously flawed, theory for gamma-ray bursts.

Yeah, I know what you mean. According to the theory I was supposed to get super strength and turn all green when I got angry. In the end all I got was cancer. :mad:

Ch'i 12-07-2006 03:09 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I know what you mean. According to the theory I was supposed to get super strength and turn all green when I got angry. In the end all I got was cancer.
Ah yes, lymphoma theory.

Toaster126 12-07-2006 03:20 PM

I thought the fourth dimention was time. And the fifth was a tesseract, ROFL.

Man, I haven't read a Wrinkle in Time for 10 years and I remember that shit.

Frosstbyte 12-07-2006 03:34 PM

A tesseract is actually a fourth dimensional "cube." Here's the wikipedia on it, complete with a really trippy rotating tesseract about 3/4 of the way down the article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract

CandleInTheDark 12-11-2006 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan
Seaver, as I understand it, the fifth dimension is time travel. The 10th, to us, is omniscience, all possibilities, all realities.

As I understood:

A 4th dimensional being would be able to see it's past, present and future.

A 5th dimensional being would be able to see all of it's possible pasts, presents, and futures.

A 6th dimensional being would be able to transport (via folding of the 5th dimension) to any of the possible pasts, presents, and futures of that universe.

So the sixth dimension is time travel.

ktspktsp 12-11-2006 07:27 PM

That's a pretty cool flash vid. I can't say it all 'fits' yet, but I certainly have a better idea of what's going on now.

Frosstbyte 12-12-2006 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark
As I understood:

A 4th dimensional being would be able to see it's past, present and future.

A 5th dimensional being would be able to see all of it's possible pasts, presents, and futures.

A 6th dimensional being would be able to transport (via folding of the 5th dimension) to any of the possible pasts, presents, and futures of that universe.

So the sixth dimension is time travel.

I think "time travel" as we generally think of it is a 5th dimensional being moving in 4 dimensions. Usually we think of time travel, as popularized by media, as going back in time to create a 5th dimensional fork-that is, change the past, create a new future timeline. I think that's mostly traveling in the 4th dimension since the 5th dimensional being just needs to go back on one timeline to change something in it to create a fork.

One of my friends who is into high level physics told me that the explanations in this flash are a little off from what he's learned. Past 4, it defeinitely gets hard to wrap your head around.

Yakk 12-12-2006 12:45 PM

That video looks like junk.

First, to describe a universe containing every quantum possibility, you need infinite dimensions. Not just 5. Infinite. Quantum superimposition gets interprited as interaction between non-orthogonal parts of this infinite dimensional space, and Quantum collapse as a rotation of two parts into being orthogonal to each other.

They cop out and call this "the 5th dimension".

Second, the mobius strip example -- which works perfectly fine if you use a simple loop. The use of the mobius strip adds nothing to the description. There are uses for the mobius strip in dimensional analogy, but that wasn't one of them. So they lose points for "extra confusion for no reason".

It continues being cheesy from then on out, and more addle-brained. :)

Most practically, it ignores the most common interpritation of String Theory -- which is that the higher order space-like dimensions are tightly twisted up -- alot of the gobbly gook he is talking about gets thrown out. While the 3rd dimension can be viewed as a bunch of slices of flatlands, the one we are in isn't such a bunch of slices of a flatland universe with any kind of reasonable flatland "laws of physics".

The ant on the wire analogy explains the situation much better.

Take a line. That's a 1 dimensional structure.

But if you took a cable, and looked at it from far enough away, it would look like a line. From far enough away, your position on the line would be described by only your position ALONG the line.

If you zoom in, the diameter of the cable starts to matter. To an ant, the cable is two-dimensional: it has a length, and a circumphrence. To describe the relative position of two ants on the line at a scale the ants care about, you need both the position ALONG the line, and where AROUND the line you are.

The top String theories is that the 6 "missing" spacial dimensions are very much like that cable. They are tiny, curled up dimensions.

...

String Theory is a mathematical model that, as far as we can tell, is consistent with the physical world. As yet it has not made any verifiable predictions that have panned out that where not also predicted by much simpler theories.

Attempts to verify some of the most interesting predictions of string theory which are not predicted by "simpler" models have, as yet, failed to pan out.

What String Theory brought forward was a way to deal with the indeterminate location of Q-M and mathematical singularities that fall out of particle theory. By treating fundamental building blocks not as 0 dimensional points, but at 1 dimensional strings, alot of singularities in the math go away.

One thing that makes String Theory "not even wrong" is that String Threory can describe way way more universes than one. So it doesn't make predictions as much as admit possibilities. And we lack the ability to say that String Theory rules out a particular possibility.

String Theory is a theoretical framework which physisics are playing with. It has some wonderful philosophical advantages over some of the competing frameworks, and is currently in vogue. However, it has yet to pass the test of making and standing behind a surprising prediction.

They are attempting to test some of the surprising possibilities put forward by string theory, but they haven't succeeded yet.

BadNick 12-12-2006 01:42 PM

Can I at least rest peacefully tonight knowing that there can't be an eleventh dimension? A simple yes or no will do ...if possible.

I'll just listen to this twice:

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/image...0dd4e010.L.jpg

hulk 12-13-2006 07:19 AM

Mmmph. Time is not 'the' fourth dimension. Time travel is easily possible - we're all doing it. Right now. Marching off into the unknown future. We can even control it, to a degree, by approaching the speed of light. If we were all two dimensional (and not just in personalities) we'd still be travelling through time.

If memory serves me, the most common description is that our universe has 3 spatial dimensions, and one time dimension. The 4D universe would have 4 spatial dimensions, but still one time.

filtherton 12-13-2006 08:55 AM

Dimensions are funny. We've actually got a lot more of them in this universe than 3. There's temperature and luminosity and charge and mass and many more. I'm not sure why space and time get the most attention. Probably because they are the most easily observed.

MageB420666 12-13-2006 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton
There's temperature and luminosity and charge and mass and many more.

Wait..... when did any of those become dimensions? Seems to me that several of those are measures of energy and fields.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulk
Time is not 'the' fourth dimension. Time travel is easily possible - we're all doing it. Right now. Marching off into the unknown future. We can even control it, to a degree, by approaching the speed of light. If we were all two dimensional (and not just in personalities) we'd still be travelling through time.

If memory serves me, the most common description is that our universe has 3 spatial dimensions, and one time dimension. The 4D universe would have 4 spatial dimensions, but still one time.

I think there might be a little confusion with definitions here... possibly due to the flash video. If something is a TRUE 2D object, it will not travel through time, it will simply exist, because it always has(i.e. its not traveling through time). When ever people try to explain 2D, such as the ant on the newspaper example, they incidently show you a 3D example with time being the third dimension as opposed to depth. Remember, its counting the dimensions involved, not labeling them. If there were a true 2D ant on a 2D newspaper, it wouldn't be able to go anywhere or do anything due to a lack of time to do it in. Unless it was a really weird ant that could somehow operate outside the dimension of time.

hulk 12-13-2006 01:54 PM

If we were true 3D, we'd exist in XYZ co-ordinates and not travel through time. I guess we're 4D, then?

filtherton 12-13-2006 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MageB420666
Wait..... when did any of those become dimensions? Seems to me that several of those are measures of energy and fields.

It depends on how you define dimensions. While space and time get all the play in popular culture, physicists and scientists can and do define a dimension as any kind of basic quantity through which other quantities can be expressed. Take a Newton: kg*m/s^2. The dimensions of the Newton are mass, length, and time

Time and space are just measurements of time and space, nothing special about them really, except perhaps that they are the most viscerally experienced dimensions. Maybe time is unique in that it is the dimension in which things happen. Beyond that, space is nothing more than a set of other dimensions that don't happen to be linearly dependent.

hotzot 12-13-2006 02:46 PM

my brain hurts!!!


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360