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Toys for Tots says No to Jesus!
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At any rate, good for them turning it down! |
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And I agree with you, I'm surprised that he's surprised they turned down his offer. It's not a Christian group he was offering toys too, so he shouldn't be surprised at all. -Tamerlain |
This seems like a no-brainer to me. The Toys For Tots program clearly made the right decision here.
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So if they didn't recite Bible verses, then they'd be ok? Or is it the fact that they resembled a religious figure?
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I'd imagine it's both. It's religious in nature, for both reasons, and that's where the problem lies. It's not even really anti-religious, as far as the decision goes, but I think it's in good taste.
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I don't know man, I mean, the gifts are a nice gesture. It should be up to the parent to decide if they want it or not.
It seems about as smart a decision as the muslims turning down Jewish doctors during the tsunami. |
I'd say it's about as smart as (insert interest group) turning down medical help from a whale biologist.
What is so difficult to understand about people not wanting to be preached at by religion? For whatever odd reason, people are naturally resistant to being told their path in life is doomed or a waste. If anyone has "bonus" sensitivity to this I'd think it would be Christians. |
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Suddenly you don't just have big boxes of pre-wrapped, generic gifts that any child can get and appreciate. Suddenly you have to have some set aside for special looking at and questions. You've got to manage a quick little interview with each parent before giving the gift to the child, make sure none of them accidentally get the wrong thing. Your staff requirements just went way up, as well as your PR liability. It's a whole big hassle that only distracts from the stated mission of TfT. |
I don't agree with you there. Also your analogy doesn't fit at all (at least I don't see it).
First of all, the doll doesn't tell anyone their path in life is doomed or a waste (it's possible but we don't have the facts). I can understand if someone doesn't want to have a Jesus doll but it's a matter of choice. If you read my post, you will see that I believe it should be up to the parent to decide if they want it or not. As for preaching, one could argue that a Barney doll or Sesame Street preaches also. All that love and what-not. If they don't like a "gift", then they can either turn it down or not accept it whatever. Did anyone consider that some of the kids might want that doll? If people are going to be overly sensitive about these things, then they should also turn down Barbie dolls as being sexually offensive and racist. Quote:
At the end of the day, it just seems silly to turn down someone's goodwill and charity. |
Think cymel pretty much said it all.
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jorgelito,
You don't get to choose what you get... it's not Toys R Us. The charity gives x gifts per child per family and that's that. Neither the parents nor the children get to choose a Tonka Truck or a Barbie (or a talking Jesus). The possibility to offend with a Furby is far smaller than with a talking Jesus doll. |
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Is Toys for Tots a Christmas thing? It just occurred to me if it's a Christmas thing, then there should be zero chance of offending Jewish and Muslim kids. All my previous examples and experiences are based on a Christmas toy drive thingy. |
"The idea was for them to be three-dimensional teaching tools for kids," La Roe said. "I believe as a churchgoing person, anyone can benefit from hearing the words of the Bible."
Teaching tool? Tell that to the atheist, Jewish, Muslim, or any non-Christian household that receives the doll. The specifics of Toys for Tots is a toy that a boy OR girl could play with, because they don't have the resources to be separating the gifts for any reason. I agree, Toys did the right thing. |
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I bet the Jesus doll is white too...
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YAHOOOOO!!! Another thread where I actually have experience in the area! I was in the Marine Corps for 8 years, and helped out on the drive, and the distribution. The process is simplified where you bring an UNWRAPED toy, it can be gender specific, or not, doesn't matter. Next step, we go thru the toys to make sure there is no religious content...this includes Bibles of any religion, or toys oriented towards religion. Next they are sorted by gender, or non-gender, and by age groups(we bring toys to any age child) After this is done, they are then wrapped by one of the local charities, with a tag stating gender and age group. The distribution centers are either ran by the Marines, or a local charity group, who then distributes anywhere from 3 to 5 toys per child in some cases, depending on apparent demand, and how well the drive did. So the parents have no idea what the gifts are either, since they are already wrapped.
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One question, are these drives just for Christmas or is it ongoing? If so, do they remove any reference to Christmas, or Santa so as not to offend anyone? I think they started doing this at schools too (EX: Holiday Drive instead of Christmas). In my experience, the staffers always wore Santa hats (for a Christmas toy drive that is). In the end though, I think it's the spirit of giving that's important here instead of the silly PCness. |
I can't really see why not distributing the Jesus dolls would be a problem. Imagine that it was a Buddha reciting Buddhist teachings or a Wiccan pentacle that played neo-Pagan recordings. It would hardly be a blip, except for the condemnation of the group attempting to force their belief system on others.
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I want to address the "surprise and disappoint[ment]" faced by Michael La Roe.
They knew exactly what they were doing when they offered to donate the buddy christs to Toys for Tots. Feigning surprise is tacky on his part. Common sense would tell us that one2believe decided it would be wonderful to spread the word of Jesus by donating all these wonderful teaching tools to poor kids around the country. They knew they would be turned down and knew they would use this to again say something like, "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!" Also, why do they work on batteries? Why can't they work on faith? That way the little poor kids can be told, "If it doesn't work, it's because you're a heathen. You don't believe in Baby Jesus enough." |
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Or it could be just one organization donating an item for a charity. They got turned down, that's it. End of story. |
It smells like a publicity stunt to me. Maybe I'm just a cynic but think it's quite probable that the guy knew that T4T would reject the toys because of their religious content. Now they are able to:
1) Cry foul on T4T because they are trying to take Christ out of Christmas 2) Let the public know about their product in hopes that parents will buy this for their kids, and finally, 3) Hope that Christian charity groups and people that buy toys for those groups will buy the toys and donate them. Brilliant. |
I agree.
This a win win for donating company. If the toys were accepted they get to prosthletyze if they are not, they get to open another front in the war on Christmas. |
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And I still say it should run on faith, not batteries. |
Religious people always have an agenda. They didn't want to donate those toys so that kids could have fun with them, they wanted to donate those toys so they could spread their disease and/or have a publicity stunt.
Now the religious nutjobs can call for a boycott on Toys for Tots :rolleyes: |
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I'd be willing to bet that the children receiving these toys wouldn't be the least bit offended by their religious context, primarily because they'd be too young to understand them. They'd simply be happy to receive a free toy. People are always making mountains out of molehills. |
As a parent, I would be deeply offended if someone started trying to convert my child to any religion.
There is no molehill here. It is just being polite. Would it have been better if it had have been any one of the following toys: A talking George W. Bush: "Stay the Course!" "Mission Accomplished" A talking Buddha: "Peace" "Your possessions chain you to the material world" A talking Terrorist: "I'm getting some virgin tail! Allah Ahkbar!" The answer is you don't give political/religious toys to a charity. |
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-Tamerlain |
Is it just me, or is this thread split down partisan lines?
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I would very much like to know if Carno were being sarcastic. I don't know enough about any of the people here yet to be able to tell for sure. If not your post was very offensive. Many religious people are not only not nut jobs, but quite sane and some are even well educated. In fact there are even some scientists that profess a faith in religion. I think all people that lump members of any large grouping (such as religion and gender) and make stereotypical offensive statements based on that grouping are nut jobs, though I do admit it would be considered offensive to state that.
Christmas is a religious holiday. I can't imagine anyone getting upset about receiving Jewish religious toys for Chanukah. This is like getting mad at people for giving away free costumes at Halloween- it's an expected part of the holiday, because it is where the holiday stems from. Now if you want to argue that Christmas and Easter should not be supported in any way by the government, this includes closing of government agencies and schools, I might be able to agree with the arguments. But the Marines, as a whole organization, by giving gifts for ANY religious holiday, are already involved in promoting the religion that the holiday celebrates. As for whether this was a publicity stunt or not, I dunno. It would certainly not be the first time that a company, regardless of whether it is religious in nature or not, had pulled something of the sort. It’s the American Way. |
Everything is split down partisan lines these days.
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I still think it's a case of people making a mountain out of a molehill. |
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Remember, intent matters. My wording implies a certain amount of cynicism directed at those who think that these kids are in such dire straits that they just beam when us upper middle class philanthropists give to them so altruistically. Hell, I'll bet they're just happy knowing we acknowledge them. We don't need to give them toys. But this is far off topic, and a lot of people at TFP hate semantic debates, sooo.... Quote:
Would it be okay if I donated thousands of Anton LaVey talking dolls that spouted things like, "There is no heaven; there is no hell, except here on earth"? I'm sure there would be no uproar at all over that. Would I be allowed to act surprised and disappointed when they were returned to me? |
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Oh. And I also hate semantics. Quote:
Simple, eh? I would also like to reiterate a point which has been brought up a few times. What's wrong in receiving a doll of Jesus on a holiday with explicit ties to Christianity? Jesus is one of the staples of Christmas, the other being Santa Clause. |
jj:
please please please can i have an anton lavey doll? addendum: in a case like giving a jesus doll to a muslim family, say, intent is irrelevant. the inability to acknowledge the simple fact of the family's being muslim points to an obliviousness that no amount of vacant "well i meant well" is going to erase. it's just stupid. |
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If that is what Mr. LaRoe thinks is a neato toy for kids, then he's an idiot and has no concept of what kids want on Christmas. How many letters do you think Santa is getting this year that read: Dear Santa, I've been really good this year. Please bring me a PSP, a bunch of Yugi-oh cards, a Dragon Ball-Z Destroyer set, and a talking Jesus doll. |
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Roach, why would a Muslim child be receiving a Christmas gift? I think that is a very relevant point. If it's just random gifts for the needy then sure, religious sensitivity would make some sense, just like they should refuse Barbie dolls and Star wars figures (sexist, violent, racist). But if it's a charitable donation for a religious holiday such as Christmas, then a Jesus doll would be highly appropriate. For example, if there was a similar drive for Halloween, should all the costumes that reflect the religion behind Halloween be refused/returned (witch costumes etc)? Quote:
Likewise, if you gave me a Barney doll or Tickle-me Elmo doll, I would also be pissed at it for telling me all the time to love everyone etc, or to tickle it. I happen to like the Cartman Talking doll but I bet that some parents would take exception to the things he says. But hey, as long it doesn't speak any religion that's a-ok. This is like people who get mad at In-N-Out for putting religious quotes on their soft drink cups and food wrappers. At the end of the day, if it was truly that big of a deal, then take it back. Whatever happend to beggars can't be choosers..... |
I wonder if Jesus would approve of a talking Jesus doll.
Methinks, not ... |
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Like Charlatan, I'd be offended. We're not talking street urchins with no adults around; yes, the kids might not care or just want to stick a firecracker up the doll's ass, but ultimately it's the parents/guardians choice how to raise those kids, not some Fundy's. And as someone who has donated a great deal of toys both to T4T and the local hospital, I know enough to make the donations as neutral all around as possible. Actually, I would think Christians would be offended as well, making their supreme icon nothing more than a toy with batteries? jesus doll I should buy a few, switch the robes to black leather and sell them as Bikers for Christ dolls..... |
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