Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - Marijuana... The most useful and economical cash crop!

- General Discussion (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/)

- - Marijuana... The most useful and economical cash crop! (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/106554-marijuana-most-useful-economical-cash-crop.html)

Marijuana... The most useful and economical cash crop!

Now I know this will sound like another pot legalization plea... and to some extent it is. But just read through this, and keep an open mind:

http://www.illuminati-news.com/marijuana-conspiracy.htm

Quote:

THE REAL REASON CANNABIS HAS BEEN OUTLAWED HAS NOTHING
TO DO WITH ITS EFFECTS ON THE MIND AND BODY.

Doug YurcheyMARIJUANA is DANGEROUS. Pot is NOT harmful to the human body or mind. Marijuana does NOT pose a threat to the general public. Marijuana is very much a danger to the oil companies, alcohol, tobacco industries and a large number of chemical corporations. Various big businesses, with plenty of dollars and influence, have suppressed the truth from the people.

The truth is if marijuana was utilized for its vast array of commercial products, it would create an industrial atomic bomb! Entrepreneurs have not been educated on the product potential of pot. The super rich have conspired to spread misinformation about an extremely versatile plant that, if used properly, would ruin their companies.

Where did the word 'marijuana' come from? In the mid 1930s, the M-word was created to tarnish the good image and phenomenal history of the hemp plant...as you will read. The facts cited here, with references, are generally verifiable in the Encyclopedia Britannica which was printed on hemp paper for 150 years:

* All schoolbooks were made from hemp or flax paper until the 1880s; Hemp Paper Reconsidered, Jack Frazier, 1974.

* It was LEGAL TO PAY TAXES WITH HEMP in America from 1631 until the early 1800s; LA Times, Aug. 12, 1981.

* REFUSING TO GROW HEMP in America during the 17th and 18th Centuries WAS AGAINST THE LAW! You could be jailed in Virginia for refusing to grow hemp from 1763 to 1769; Hemp in Colonial Virginia, G. M. Herdon.

"I grew Hemp", George Washington

* George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers GREW HEMP; Washington and Jefferson Diaries. Jefferson smuggled hemp seeds from China to France then to America.

* Benjamin Franklin owned one of the first paper mills in America and it processed hemp. Also, the War of 1812 was fought over hemp. Napoleon wanted to cut off Moscow's export to England; Emperor Wears No Clothes, Jack Herer.

* For thousands of years, 90% of all ships' sails and rope were made from hemp. The word 'canvas' is Dutch for cannabis; Webster's New World Dictionary.

* 80% of all textiles, fabrics, clothes, linen, drapes, bed sheets, etc. were made from hemp until the 1820s with the introduction of the cotton gin.

* The first Bibles, maps, charts, Betsy Ross's flag, the first drafts of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were made from hemp; U.S. Government Archives.

* The first crop grown in many states was hemp. 1850 was a peak year for Kentucky producing 40,000 tons. Hemp was the largest cash crop until the 20th Century; State Archives.

* Oldest known records of hemp farming go back 5000 years in China, although hemp industrialization probably goes back to ancient Egypt.

* Rembrants, Gainsboroughs, Van Goghs as well as most early canvas paintings were principally painted on hemp linen.

* In 1916, the U.S. Government predicted that by the 1940s all paper would come from hemp and that no more trees need to be cut down. Government studies report that 1 acre of hemp equals 4.1 acres of trees. Plans were in the works to implement such programs; Department of Agriculture

* Quality paints and varnishes were made from hemp seed oil until 1937. 58,000 tons of hemp seeds were used in America for paint products in 1935; Sherman Williams Paint Co. testimony before Congress against the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act.

* Henry Ford's first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the CAR ITSELF WAS CONTRUCTED FROM HEMP! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, 'grown from the soil,' had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel; Popular Mechanics, 1941.

* Hemp called 'Billion Dollar Crop.' It was the first time a cash crop had a business potential to exceed a billion dollars; Popular Mechanics, Feb., 1938.

* Mechanical Engineering Magazine (Feb. 1938) published an article entitled 'The Most Profitable and Desirable Crop that Can be Grown.' It stated that if hemp was cultivated using 20th Century technology, it would be the single largest agricultural crop in the U.S. and the rest of the world.

The following information comes directly from the United States Department of Agriculture's 1942 14-minute film encouraging and instructing 'patriotic American farmers' to grow 350,000 acres of hemp each year for the war effort:

'...(When) Grecian temples were new, hemp was already old in the service of mankind. For thousands of years, even then, this plant had been grown for cordage and cloth in China and elsewhere in the East. For centuries prior to about 1850, all the ships that sailed the western seas were rigged with hempen rope and sails. For the sailor, no less than the hangman, hemp was indispensable...

...Now with Philippine and East Indian sources of hemp in the hands of the Japanese...American hemp must meet the needs of our Army and Navy as well as of our industries...

...the Navy's rapidly dwindling reserves. When that is gone, American hemp will go on duty again; hemp for mooring ships; hemp for tow lines; hemp for tackle and gear; hemp for countless naval uses both on ship and shore. Just as in the days when Old Ironsides sailed the seas victorious with her hempen shrouds and hempen sails. Hemp for victory!'

Certified proof from the Library of Congress; found by the research of Jack Herer, refuting claims of other government agencies that the 1942 USDA film 'Hemp for Victory' did not exist.

Hemp cultivation and production do not harm the environment. The USDA Bulletin #404 concluded that Hemphemp produces 4 times as much pulp with at least 4 to 7 times less pollution. From Popular Mechanics, Feb. 1938:

'It has a short growing season...It can be grown in any state...The long roots penetrate and break the soil to leave it in perfect condition for the next year's crop. The dense shock of leaves, 8 to 12 feet above the ground, chokes out weeds.
...hemp, this new crop can add immeasurably to American agriculture and industry.'

In the 1930s, innovations in farm machinery would have caused an industrial revolution when applied to hemp. This single resource could have created millions of new jobs generating thousands of quality products. Hemp, if not made illegal, would have brought America out of the Great Depression.

William Randolph Hearst (Citizen Kane) and the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division of Kimberly Clark owned vast acreage of timberlands. The Hearst Company supplied most paper products. Patty Hearst's grandfather, a destroyer of nature for his own personal profit, stood to lose billions because of hemp.

In 1937, Dupont patented the processes to make plastics from oil and coal. Dupont's Annual Report urged stockholders to invest in its new petrochemical division. Synthetics such as plastics, cellophane, celluloid, methanol, nylon, rayon, Dacron, etc., could now be made from oil. Natural hemp industrialization would have ruined over 80% of Dupont's business.

THE CONSPIRACY

Andrew Mellon became Hoover's Secretary of the Treasury and Dupont's primary investor. He appointed his future nephew-in-law, Harry J. Anslinger, to head the Federal Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs.

Secret meetings were held by these financial tycoons. Hemp was declared dangerous and a threat to their billion dollar enterprises. For their dynasties to remain intact, hemp had to go. These men took an obscure Mexican slang word: 'marihuana' and pushed it into the consciousness of America.

MEDIA MANIPULATION

A media blitz of 'yellow journalism' raged in the late 1920s and 1930s. Hearst's newspapers ran stories emphasizing the horrors of marihuana. The menace of marihuana made headlines. Readers learned that it was responsible for everything from car accidents to loose morality.

Films like 'Reefer Madness' (1936), 'Marihuana: Assassin of Youth' (1935) and 'Marihuana: The Devil's Weed' (1936) were propaganda designed by these industrialists to create an enemy. Their purpose was to gain public support so that anti-marihuana laws could be passed.

Examine the following quotes from 'The Burning Question' aka REEFER MADNESS:

*

a violent narcotic.
*

acts of shocking violence.
*

incurable insanity.
*

soul-destroying effects.
*

under the influence of the drug he killed his entire family with an ax.
*

more vicious, more deadly even than these soul-destroying drugs (heroin, cocaine) is the menace of marihuana!

Reefer Madness did not end with the usual 'the end.' The film concluded with these words plastered on the screen: TELL YOUR CHILDREN.

In the 1930s, people were very naive; even to the point of ignorance. The masses were like sheep waiting to be led by the few in power. They did not challenge authority. If the news was in print or on the radio, they believed it had to be true. They told their children and their children grew up to be the parents of the baby-boomers.

On April 14, 1937, the Prohibitive Marihuana Tax Law or the bill that outlawed hemp was directly brought to the House Ways and Means Committee. This committee is the only one that can introduce a bill to the House floor without it being debated by other committees. The Chairman of the Ways and Means, Robert Doughton, was a Dupont supporter. He insured that the bill would pass Congress.

Dr. James Woodward, a physician and attorney, testified too late on behalf of the American Medical Association. He told the committee that the reason the AMA had not denounced the Marihuana Tax Law sooner was that the Association had just discovered that marihuana was hemp.

Few people, at the time, realized that the deadly menace they had been reading about on Hearst's front pages was in fact passive hemp. The AMA understood cannabis to be a MEDICINE found in numerous healing products sold over the last hundred years.

In September of 1937, hemp became illegal. The most useful crop known became a drug and our planet has been suffering ever since.

Congress banned hemp because it was said to be the most violence-causing drug known. Anslinger, head of the Drug Commission for 31 years, promoted the idea that marihuana made users act extremely violent. In the 1950s, under the Communist threat of McCarthyism, Anslinger now said the exact opposite. Marijuana will pacify you so much that soldiers would not want to fight.

Today, our planet is in desperate trouble. Earth is suffocating as large tracts of rain forests disappear. Pollution, poisons and chemicals are killing people. These great problems could be reversed if we industrialized hemp. Natural biomass could provide all of the planet's energy needs that are currently supplied by fossil fuels. We have consumed 80% of our oil and gas reserves. We need a renewable resource. Hemp could be the solution to soaring gas prices.

Hemp

THE WONDER PLANT

Hemp has a higher quality fiber than wood fiber. Far fewer caustic chemicals are required to make paper from hemp than from trees. Hemp paper does not turn yellow and is very durable. The plant grows quickly to maturity in a season where trees take a lifetime.

ALL PLASTIC PRODUCTS SHOULD BE MADE FROM HEMP SEED OIL. Hempen plastics are biodegradable! Over time, they would break down and not harm the environment. Oil-based plastics, the ones we are very familiar with, help ruin nature; they do not break down and will do great harm in the future. The process to produce the vast array of natural (hempen) plastics will not ruin the rivers as Dupont and other petrochemical companies have done. Ecology does not fit in with the plans of the Oil Industry and the political machine. Hemp products are safe and natural.

MEDICINES SHOULD BE MADE FROM HEMP. We should go back to the days when the AMA supported cannabis cures. 'Medical Marijuana' is given out legally to only a handful of people while the rest of us are forced into a system that relies on chemicals. Pot is only healthy for the human body.

WORLD HUNGER COULD END. A large variety of food products can be generated from hemp. The seeds contain one of the highest sources of protein in nature. ALSO: They have two essential fatty acids that clean your body of cholesterol. These essential fatty acids are not found anywhere else in nature! Consuming pot seeds is the best thing you could do for your body. Eat uncooked hemp seeds.

CLOTHES SHOULD BE MADE FROM HEMP. Hemp clothing is extremely strong and durable over time. You could hand clothing, made from pot, down to your grandchildren. Today, there are American companies that make hemp clothing; usually 50% hemp. Hemp fabrics should be everywhere. Instead, they are almost underground. Superior hemp products are not allowed to advertise on fascist television. Kentucky, once the top hemp producing state, made it ILLEGAL TO WEAR hemp clothing! Can you imagine being thrown into jail for wearing quality jeans?

The world is crazy...but that does not mean you have to join the insanity. Get together. Spread the news. Tell people, and that includes your children, the truth. Use hemp products. Eliminate the word 'marijuana.' Realize the history that created it. Make it politically incorrect to say or print the M-word. Fight against the propaganda (designed to favor the agenda of the super rich) and the bullshit. Hemp must be utilized in the future. We need a clean energy source to save our planet. INDUSTRIALIZE HEMP!

The liquor, tobacco and oil companies fund more than a million dollars a day to Partnership for a Drug-Free America and other similar agencies. We have all seen their commercials. Now, their motto is: ‘It's more dangerous than we thought.’ Lies from the powerful corporations, that began with Hearst, are still alive and well today.

The brainwashing continues. Now, the commercials say: If you buy a joint, you contribute to murders and gang wars. The latest anti-pot commercials say: If you buy a joint...you are promoting TERRORISM! The new enemy (terrorism) has paved the road to brainwash you any way THEY see fit.

There is only one enemy; the friendly people you pay your taxes to; the war-makers and nature destroyers. With your funding, they are killing the world right in front of your eyes. HALF A MILLION DEATHS EACH YEAR ARE CAUSED BY TOBACCO. HALF A MILLION DEATHS EACH YEAR ARE CAUSED BY ALCOHOL. NO ONE HAS EVER, EVER DIED FROM SMOKING POT!! In the entire history of the human race, not one death can be attributed to cannabis. Our society has outlawed grass but condones the use of the KILLERS: TOBACCO and ALCOHOL. Hemp should be declassified and placed in DRUG stores to relieve stress. Hardening and constriction of the arteries are bad; but hemp usage actually enlarges the arteries...which is a healthy condition. We have been so conditioned to think that: Smoking is harmful. That is NOT the case for passive pot.

Ingesting THC, hemp's active agent, has a positive effect; relieving asthma and glaucoma. A joint tends to alleviate the nausea caused by chemotherapy. You are able to eat on hemp. This is a healthy state of being.

{One personal note: During the pregnancy of my wife, she was having some difficulty gaining weight. We were in the hospital. A nurse called us to one side and said: ‘Off the record, if you smoke pot...you'd get something called the munchies and you’ll gain weight.' I swear that is a true story}.

The stereotype for a pothead is similar to a drunk, bubble-brain. Yet, the truth is one’s creative abilities can be enhanced under its influence. The perception of time slightly slows and one can become more sensitive. You can more appreciate all arts; be closer to nature and generally FEEL more under the influence of cannabis. It is, in fact, the exact opposite state of mind and body as the drunken state. You can be more aware with pot.

The pot plant is an ALIEN plant. There is physical evidence that cannabis is not like any other plant on this planet. One could conclude that it was brought here for the benefit of humanity. Hemp is the ONLY plant where the males appear one way and the females appear very different, physically! No one ever speaks of males and females in regard to the plant kingdom because plants do not show their sexes; except for cannabis. To determine what sex a certain, normal, Earthly plant is: You have to look internally, at its DNA. A male blade of grass (physically) looks exactly like a female blade of grass. The hemp plant has an intense sexuallity. Growers know to kill the males before they fertilize the females. Yes, folks...the most potent pot comes from 'horny females.'

The reason this amazing, very sophisticated, ET plant from the future is illegal has nothing to do with how it physically affects us…..

…POT IS ILLEGAL BECAUSE BILLIONAIRES WANT TO REMAIN BILLIONAIRES!

Now the paragraph at the end, while including some true facts, kind of takes some of the seriousness out of the article.

But considering the facts this presents, can anyone really debate that Hemp might not be the bad thing it's been labeled as? If we could make cheaper, less chemically driven paper and cloth, not to metion BIODEGRADABLE PLASTICS!! How can we really label cannibis as a harmful substance? Any one who knows a stoner knows that they are, in general, completely harmless.

What I liked about this article, was that it didnt primarily tote the stereotypical effects of marijuana use as bullshit (which they are, I'm going to graduate with a 4 yr degree from a somewhat recognized engineering university, with around a 3.3 probably, and smoke daily at school), but goes through the economic reasons as well. Your thoughts?

EDIT: I'll admit that it comes from a conspiracy theory site. And while that may damage credibility, there are some interesting point in other articles from the site as well. Open minds is all I'm asking.

Quote:

The pot plant is an ALIEN plant. There is physical evidence that cannabis is not like any other plant on this planet. One could conclude that it was brought here for the benefit of humanity. Hemp is the ONLY plant where the males appear one way and the females appear very different, physically! No one ever speaks of males and females in regard to the plant kingdom because plants do not show their sexes; except for cannabis. To determine what sex a certain, normal, Earthly plant is: You have to look internally, at its DNA. A male blade of grass (physically) looks exactly like a female blade of grass. The hemp plant has an intense sexuallity. Growers know to kill the males before they fertilize the females. Yes, folks...the most potent pot comes from 'horny females.'

The reason this amazing, very sophisticated, ET plant from the future is illegal has nothing to do with how it physically affects us…..

But, the rest is all true I'm sure :rolleyes: . The history of drug criminalization in this country is pretty well documented and doesn't need a conspiracy theory to make sense

An open mind does not need to be accepting of all possible but unproven claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Preaching to the choir. MJ is far less dangerous than alcohol, cigaretts, the credit system, and MTV. I would vote to legalize pot. Besides the obvious reasons, there are frankly many uses, as illustrated above, for the crop and it could help the agriculture business in the US a great deal. While pot is not harmless (addiction, memory loss, cardiovascular problems, anxiety, hallucinations, risk of cancer), it is hardly the dangerous drug it is made out to be... If marijuana is a gateway drug, so is tylonol. I don't know about a conspiracy to hide the truth behind the wonders of hemp products, but I can see that the substance has been treated poorly for a while now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

If marijuana is a gateway drug, so is tylonol.

So true man, I know lots of kids who flunked out of school because of excessive tylenol use. While I don't buy the 'gateway' drug theory all that much, I think people more likely to try harder drugs will start with MJ, but those who are not will not be lead to them BY MJ, thats a pretty silly anology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Marijuana is only a gateway drug because it is illegal (which means if tylonol were illegal, it could very well be a gateway drug...who knows?). What do you think he statisctics are between people who drop out because of marijuana vs. alcohol? While I can't really make any decent arguments over why alcohol is illegal (besides the fact that making it illegal fails), the fact is that there are much more dangerous substances with a lot less value that are perfectly legal for responsible adults.

Maybe a better comparison would be Codine, Robitussin, or another drug that can have a noticable effect on perception. Bottome line: marijuana is really only bad because it's illegal.

Hey guys, haha, I realize the writer of the article is quite probably insane. But they do throw a lot of facts out there I didn't know. Such as the total versitility of the hemp plant. I knew it was used to make cloth and paper, but I didnt know the quality, and yeild comparisons and such.

As far as gateway drugs, I think Ustwo and willravel summed it up pretty well.

Lol perhaps it would get a better response as a whole if I pared down the article?

And by the way... I will attest to the asthma positive effect, when smoked in moderation. Heavy smoking will make it slightly worse, but light to moderate smoking will open my chest up quite a bit.

And being a dopey teenager, sleeping 5-6 hours a day more than normal and losing the drive to do more than smoke pot and sleep isn't harmful at all, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

For me, cough syrup was my gateway drug. I hadn't even TRIED or thought about trying weed when I was downing coughsyrup in order to get a high. And even then, I haven't done any hardcore drugs to this day. Gateway drugs, my ass. Marijuana should definitely be legalised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulk

And being a dopey teenager, sleeping 5-6 hours a day more than normal and losing the drive to do more than smoke pot and sleep isn't harmful at all, right?

That only happens if used in excess- and it's not addictive. Frankly, that "doped up teenager" stereotype is totally overdone in movies and the media.

I am allergic to pot and therefore can not smoke it due to migraines and nausea. However, I have seen several friends do the puff puff pass, and they werent dopey at all. More relaxed yes, just as intelligent and they definately didnt "get stupid". Others were consuming alcohol... THEY got stupid and dopey. I could care less if pot were legal. I would still be allergic, but the pot smokers I have come across dont force it on you, they just smoke their joint and keep on goin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by la petite moi

If you haven't done any harder drugs then it wasn't a gateway drug at all. If you went from cough syrup to looking for heroine that would be a gateway drug.

Quote:

That only happens if used in excess- and it's not addictive. Frankly, that "doped up teenager" stereotype is totally overdone in movies and the media.

Tell it to the high school kid I caught behind my office last month. With the 1970's hair back in style he looked like he was directly out of 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High'.

Anyways reguardless if MJ should be legal or not, I think that wasn't the point of this thread as this argument has been done to death already. The point was is it a giant conspiracy.

I thought hemp couldn't be used to produce drugs? It didn't have the THC or something.

I wouldn't be surprized if the tabacco companies wanted MJ to be kept off the market. Unless they were the ones who were the ones selling it.

I think it should be available from a doctor/pharmacist with a perscription. And they would be able to monitor the usage levels and make sure everything is ok. They could also help them get off the drug if they wanted.

By all means, let's relegalize. Let's just engineer it to remove all THC from the leaves and buds. It's an easily grown crop with a number of legal uses, but it's an illegal drug in most of the world. THC-free hemp is a very useful product. Opium poppies are very pretty, but there's a good reason why you can't buy them for a boquet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by la petite moi

That only happens if used in excess- and it's not addictive. Frankly, that "doped up teenager" stereotype is totally overdone in movies and the media.

I wasn't talking stereotypes. I was talking about what happened to (former, now) friends of mine. Anyone who says it has no adverse effect is lying to themselves.

Quote:

Pot is NOT harmful to the human body or mind. Marijuana does NOT pose a threat to the general public.

He just had to put that in the first sentence, didn't he? I'm all for legalization of marijuana, but what I'm not for is crazy ass potheads declaring nonsense. This is absolutely false, and elta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) has ben shown again and again to impair healthy serotonin activity in the short and long term areas of the brain.

A quick search of marijuana returns thousands of links:

Quote:

Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Depression, anxiety, and personality disturbances have been associated with chronic marijuana use. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off

And these aren't joe schomes:

Quote:

17 Brook JS, Rosen Z, Brook DW. The effect of early marijuana use on later anxiety and depressive symptoms. NYS Psychologist 35–39, January 2001.

18 Brook JS, Cohen P, Brook DW. Longitudinal study of co-occurring psychiatric disorders and substance use. J Acad Child and Adolescent Psych 37(3):322–330, 1998.

23 Rob M, Reynolds I, Finlayson PF. Adolescent marijuana use: Risk factors and implications. Aust NZ J Psychiatry 24(1):45–56, 1990.

24 Brook JS, Balka EB, Whiteman M. The risks for late adolescence of early adolescent marijuana use. Am J Public Health 89(10):1549–1554, 1999.

25 Pope HG, Gruber AJ, Hudson JI, et al. Neuropsychological performance in long-term cannabis users. Arch Gen Psychiatry 58(10):909–915, 2001.

Yes, there was quite a bit of of alterior motives for making marijuana illegal. But to say that it has no long term potential effect is patently false and kills the author's credibility.

I OWN the movie Hemp Revolution, and I'll gladly share it with anyone who wants it. It details for almost 2 hours the potential benefits of hemp in every industry from textiles to fuel. And that's great. But that doesn't mean that marijuana is the miracle drug that never hurts you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

Yes, there was quite a bit of of alterior motives for making marijuana illegal. But to say that it has no long term potential effect is patently false and kills the author's credibility.

Well that and the alien bit :rolleyes:

Haha yea that alien bit... The dude is whacked.

Just a little bit of personal anecdote for those that claim pot destroys lives. Like I said, I pay 40 thousand dollars a year for attending my engineering school. A good quarter of those students, selected mostly from the top 10% of high school students in america, smokes dope.

Yes they look like hippies, but they perform just as well in school as the non-users. Actually, they tend to freak out, and have stree breakdowns much less often. Something not all together uncommon at an engineering school.

Personally, I have seen no adverse effects, short or long term, in my schooling. Keep in mind... Those doped up idiot stoners... Well, how can you honestly tell, if smoking pot makes them like that, or if those kinds of people smoke pot? I tend toward the latter.

Same thing with depression.

Moreover, I have an internship for the summer, who drug test. I quit for the test, passed, and once I got here found that pot is way to expensive in this area to justify my spending my hard earned money on it. No regrets. No withdrawls. Here I am 3 months free of any drugs. I don't, personally, notice a real differance in learning either.

Hell, I got an A in a 400 level Heat Transfer class last semester... I smoked daily, even went to half the classes high, and blew off most of the homework. Studied plenty, but still...

I challenge most of you non-smokers to get an A in that class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krwlz

I challenge most of you non-smokers to get an A in that class.

Not the point really. My mental abilities are far superior to most peoples as well. I'm sure I could do accademic work high that many people could never do. That doesn't mean being high wouldn't slow me down, it just means I'd be able to overcome the handicap.

Hell I drank like a fish in college and did just fine. I set the curve in a 800 person biology class full of future doctors all trying to get A's without going to class more than five times (3 of which were exams). I'd never go to class drunk, but because of my drinking I'd miss almost all of my morning classes. At my highest level of drinking I also set the curve in a bio-chem course taught by the hardest professor in the department which included saturday classes (which I never once attended).

Then I grew up a bit, stayed sober (I was never an alcoholic I just liked to party and feel good while relaxing, sound familiar?), went to all my classes, and did about 50% better in my work.

I know nothing about how pot would effect me. I just don't like smoking and have no desire to smoke anything so trying it was never even an issue for me. I have no idea if it would be good to legalize it or not, its not a big issue for me and I don't really care, but saying there are no negative effects is a bit silly.

Quote:

. Like I said, I pay 40 thousand dollars a year for attending my engineering school. ... big anecdote ..

I challenge most of you non-smokers to get an A in that class.

I'm glad that you at least deigned it was anecdotal evidence. Once again, that does not in the least support the idea that marijuana does you no harm. Anecdotal evidence is almost always useless. For as many as you have, I have as many contrary. That proves nothing. Neurochemists doing longitudinal studies on hundreds of smokers and non-smokers alike? For years? Repeatedly? Now you're getting somewhere. And they disagree.

Like Ustwo said - just beacuse you can overcome the effects of marijuana does not mean it does not affect you.

Ok, I can attest to "early marijuana use causes anxiety later in life"

I started smoking pot when I was about 10, continued untill I got pregnant with my son when I was 20. I was always laid back-no worrys mon. My motto was Hakuna Matatta. I am not going to sit here and say my bulb's the brightest, cause it's certainly not, but in school I was classified as "gifted". Even with daily pot smoking before, during, and after school. However, I was your typical underachiever.

Now, after I had my son I tried to smoke pot a few times, and the paranoia/ anxiety I experienced was horrific. I had always heard that smoking pot caused anxiety, but I never believed it untill then. I don't know if having a child permanently changed my body chemistry, but pot is a no-go for me.
The anxiety also isn't just when I tried to smoke pot either, it's now a constant in my life. At first I just thought that it was new mother nerve syndrome, but my son is quite older know and it's still there. Perhaps it is because I started smoking pot at such an early age?

With that said, I still believe that marijuana should be legalized, at the very least decriminalized, and would make an excellent cash crop. How bout giving some farm subsidies to hemp growers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Opium poppies are very pretty, but there's a good reason why you can't buy them for a boquet.

Actually, you can. Dried poppy pods are frequently used in crafts and boquets, but users crush the pods and boil them into tea. There's a thriving market in bulk dried poppy pods--ostensibly for crafting, but sold in supsiciously large quantities from websites that tend to have very precise shipping estimates prominently displayed. Estimated delivery date matters a lot when you're a junkie. A little googling turns up a whole seedy world of this stuff. Eg: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5534/howto.html

/threadjack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

An open mind does not need to be accepting of all possible but unproven claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Very rarely do I find myself agreeing with Ustwo... But in the case of him throwing a Carl Sagan quote, I find myself nodding in agreement. And this thread demands a more comprehensive response from me, but I am in a hurry out the door.

So this spot reserved for a future post

I WORK in a rehab facility for teenagers. You would have a hard time convincing me that pot does not function as a gateway drug for the majority of these teens or that it isn't harmful for young and developing minds. While most of them have other factors that led to addiction/interest in drugs outside of introduction to marijuana, that's where they started when they got into drugs. If you're older and know the risks it's not going to be a gateway drug for you, but anyone under the age of 16 is opening a door that might lead to other doors.

I'm in support of legalization, but I think it needs to be regulated--though look at how regulating tobacco has kept it out of the hands of minors (yeah right).

And yes, hemp is a wonderful thing--but yes, we could make a GMO hemp that has no THC. I think I would much rather see that first.

I often wonder if pot's status as a gateway drug is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Everyone talks about it and there's enough questions about how bad it really is for people that it's more readily available than "hard core" drugs so people who are naturally disposed to trying drugs go for it first to see if they like having an altered experience. And, finding that they do, they then go on to other stuff.

Of illegal drugs, pot is the most available, least expensive, least risky and least stigmatized. If you're interested in drug use in general, of course it's going to be your first choice. We've made it an obvious and easy first choice. I think the fact that people start with marjuana on their way to coke, LSD, heroin, etc. speaks much more to how we have framed the drug issue and much less to some property inherent to marjuana.

That said, there's not much question it's harmful, though it's certainly not any more harmful than alcohol or tobacco, and probably less so. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that if alcohol and tobacco are legal that pot should be illegal. Of course, I think everything should be legal and we should make a fortune off regulating and taxing the stuff.

Was it some kinda of political hoo-ha criminalising cannabis? Duh!

As for a gateway drug, IMO as soon as you take the first step over the law to smoke pot your already half way there to doing others.

I don't think cannabis should be legalised anymore, i've heard too many stories of it fucking with peoples heads and i've seen many a friend succumb to addiction.

On a personal note cannabis never really affected me in overall mental faculties, it did when i was high but not as an overall effect. E on the otherhand, that completly and utterly fucked my head over.

What sensible smokers overall don't seem to grasp properly is that for every one of them there are a thousand idiots who don't have a fucking clue how to be sensible with drugs, or alcohol, or anything else. I include myself in that respect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

I don't think cannabis should be legalised anymore, i've heard too many stories of it fucking with peoples heads and i've seen many a friend succumb to addiction.

I've heard a lot more stories about alcohol than I have marijuana. How many times in the local news paper have we read about some teenagers plowing into a phone pole after doing shots or drinking beer? Compare that to how often we hear about the same thing happening to people who were just coming from a Phish concert. Marijuana isn't harmless, but making it illegal because it can do harm is not on par with our treatment of alcohol.

Let me put it this way: Alcohol was once made to be illegal. That failed because of non compliance. If we would have had the same result of the prohibition on marijuana, would they have legalized it again? I honestly don't know. All I know is I doubt anyone could make the argument that alcohol was less dangerous than marijuana.

Alcohol is much worse them Marijuana.

And for all the people talking about their friends who sit around and smoke pot all day..

ahem, those people would have been losers no matter what. If it wasn't pot it would have been beer, or pills, or EverQuest... Some people are just losers and it just so happens they choose to spend their time smoking pot.

The idea that smoking pot made them into losers... meh.

Pot will slow your reaction time and effect peripheral vision.
I'm not in favor of people driving while stoned.
The driver not being stoned once saved my life or at least caused us not to have been hit by a speeding car running a red light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincentt

Right... So the fact that they didn't act this way before smoking, and when they stopped for a while acted like they did before, only to lose all motivation once picking it up again is just coincidental, right?

Marijuanna has its good effects and its bad. It's like alcohol- it's fun and healthy to drink every so often, but when it becomes a daily habit (whether it is physical or mental addiction) it becomes a bad and destructive thing. I have a friend who uses pot WAY too much, and because of it he is in his 6th or 7th year of college, and still 4 or 5 classes awat from getting his degree. Time that he could have spent studying... or actually GOING to class, he instead spent getting stoned in his garage.
I use pot occasionally with my friends and my girlfriend, but I don't let it get in the way of anything. I care about my classes, my girlfriend, my family, and my life enough to no abandom them for endless (eventually boring) euphoria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

I don't think i made one mention about alcohol, let alone it being more dangerous than pot:confused:

My point was about keep pot criminalised. I already know that alcohol is nasty stuff.

Hell I say legalize it.

The world needs ditch diggers too, and they are easier to manage if they are stoned happy. Of course getting them to show up to work can be a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

I don't think i made one mention about alcohol, let alone it being more dangerous than pot:confused:

My point was about keep pot criminalised. I already know that alcohol is nasty stuff.

But by the same right shouldn't we re-criminalize alcohol? If a substance that can be dangerous and can modify one's mental state to the point where they have slow or different reactions to stimuli, and can be dangerous, should be outlawed and banned, then why stop at marijuana? What's the point of outlawing a substance that's kind of unsafe, but keep a very unsafe substance legal? I see these two topics as being fundamentally linked.

I'm not sure if alcohol should be legal or not, but at the end of the day people need to be responsible for their own actions. Some people make bad decisions with alcohol, but most make reasonable and safe decisions. Not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic. Likewise, if marijuana were legal, not all people who smoked would be potheads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

The problem with making alcohol illegal was the cultural acceptance of it. In most cultures that have come to the US, alcohol is a big part of ritual. Weddings, celebrations, even mass all had alcohol as a part of it. Banning alcohol was doomed to fail because of this.

MJ does not have this cultural link. One does not toast the bride and groom with a joint, one does not turn the blood of christ into weed, one does not celebrate a good harvest with a roach.

So perhaps MJ is less of a problem than alcohol (and I'm not so sure of that) that doesn't mean its use should be sanctioned or increased.

If you want to argue from a libertarian view then you are right, they should both be legal, but for a libertarian view to work then you would have to be a libertarian government. Meaning, we don't pay for your recovery, we don't give you welfare, we don't give a shit what you do but if you get in trouble then die in the streets starving, but try not to make a mess while you do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

That argument is like saying we should ban cars because they kill so many people each year. They're a part of our lifestyle, realistically there is no chance that they can be taken away. Cannabis can stay illegial with less effort that it would take to criminalise alcohol, and without the riots.

The topics are linked, no doubt, but is in improper to start preaching one way or another about alcohol when the debate isn't about alcohol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

Wrong. Cars do not change inhabitions, make us sloppy, or have any real chemical effect on the brain. Cars are tools that are intended to use as transportation. Alcohol, while possibly having some nutritional value, is not intended as something functional in the same sense as an automobile. Most people drink for flavor, feeling, or some combination of the two (much like marijuana). Ingesting or inhaling THC is done so in order to relax and get stoned, like alcohol is often taken in to get relaxed or buzzed. In a discussion about the possible legalization of marijuana, one must mention similar topics for the use of comparison. That's why the debate includes alcohol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

well, thanks to this fucking internet connection, my long response is now gone, so i will paraphrase, so excuse the bluntness.:mad:

Its naive to say that cars do not have an effect on peoples minds and behaviour.

It is completly impractical to ban alcohol, whatever the medical benefits are. People will be forced to move to something else to enjoy themselves, and whos to say that won't be illegial too?

Cannabis and alcohol have significantly different effects, as you stated.

Cannabis is illegial already, banning alcohol failed miserably.

Think that about covers it, sorta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

well, thanks to this fucking internet connection, my long response is now gone, so i will paraphrase, so excuse the bluntness.:mad:

Been there. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

Its naive to say that cars do not have an effect on peoples minds and behaviour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

It is completly impractical to ban alcohol, whatever the medical benefits are. People will be forced to move to something else to enjoy themselves, and whos to say that won't be illegial too?

Well in the world of 'ifs', we get to play with realuity, so let's try this:
What if alcohol had been made to be illegla dn the state had stuck to it's guns, and marijuana had never been abolished, and is still legal today? We'd probably have a lot of people drinking dangerous moonshine, and eventually moving on from alcohol to other illegal drugs. The difference between this hypothetical and the real world, is that people getting drunk and possibly not understanding the consequences - consequences that we understand because we are raised in a society where alcohol is legal and taugh along with other social norms - could lead to much worse problems than marijuana could ever lead to. Not going to college and staying at your job at Blockbuster isn't as bad as beating your wife or driving drunk.

Yes, people would move on to something else to enjoy themselves if alcohol were banned. I see this as you supporting my point. Legalize marijuana and you have less people who are willing to bend their legal morals to get high. Can you imagine something like cocaine being the first illegal drug you try instead of mj? That is a HUGE step. I suspect that people would be less willing to take that step if it were so much bigger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

Cannabis and alcohol have significantly different effects, as you stated.

That is true. I see the effects of marijuana as being less dangerous overall than the effects of alcohol. Both, in moderation, are harmless. In excess the resulyts are decidedly different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

My naievety aside for the moment, are you suggesting that the effect of driving is copmparable to the effects of alcohol and marijuana? I beg to differ. Yes, driving can assist in the release of andorphins, adrenaline, and a slew of other chemicals as a response to stimuli, but alcohol and tetrahydrachloride are dumped into the blood stream directly, not as a result of the body releasing chemicals in response to external stumilation. Basically, it's apples (alcohol), oranges (thc), and fruit cake (driving). I see alcohol and thc as much more linked, espically if the question of legality is brought up, than either of the two and driving. Maybe I'm missing something.

Well in the world of 'ifs', we get to play with realuity, so let's try this:
What if alcohol had been made to be illegla dn the state had stuck to it's guns, and marijuana had never been abolished, and is still legal today? We'd probably have a lot of people drinking dangerous moonshine, and eventually moving on from alcohol to other illegal drugs. The difference between this hypothetical and the real world, is that people getting drunk and possibly not understanding the consequences - consequences that we understand because we are raised in a society where alcohol is legal and taugh along with other social norms - could lead to much worse problems than marijuana could ever lead to. Not going to college and staying at your job at Blockbuster isn't as bad as beating your wife or driving drunk.

Yes, people would move on to something else to enjoy themselves if alcohol were banned. I see this as you supporting my point. Legalize marijuana and you have less people who are willing to bend their legal morals to get high. Can you imagine something like cocaine being the first illegal drug you try instead of mj? That is a HUGE step. I suspect that people would be less willing to take that step if it were so much bigger.

That is true. I see the effects of marijuana as being less dangerous overall than the effects of alcohol. Both, in moderation, are harmless. In excess the resulyts are decidedly different.

I wasn't suggesting that driving was the same as drugs, just that it had an effect on the mind.

Your second point really boils down to failures in education systems more than anything else. I know signifcantly more bums due to cannabis than i know of wife beaters due to alcohol. Would you agree with me that someone who beats their wife already has some issues that the alcohol is only exasperating?

I also know of at least 3 idiots who went straight to coke or other class A's completly side stepping cannabis. They apparently think it will make them a bum. Like i said, not the smartest bunch.
Personally i think alot of kids smoke cannabis because of the fact it's illegal, just to push back against whatever they feel is pushing them. That was certainly the way for me. If you take away the illegality factor, what are kids going to be doing instead? I know its cliche to bitch about the children, but i think its a valid point.

Yes people would move onto something else if alcohol was banned, but what would that be exactly is the problem. cannabis and having a fun night out arn't two things that often go together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Hell I say legalize it.

The world needs ditch diggers too, and they are easier to manage if they are stoned happy. Of course getting them to show up to work can be a problem.

I agree. Let's legalize it and let patients who need it for pain relief get it cheap.

I'd rather deal with a stoner than a drunk ANY DAY! :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Ya know, what it really comes down to for me, is that I don't believe the government should have the privledge, nor the right, to tell me what I can and can't do on my spare time. If it kills of seretonin production, and I'm ok with that, who is some asshole in a suite to tell me I can't do it?

Also, most of those bums, and losers who smoke pot all the time, do a whole hell of a lot more drugs than just pot. They're usually potheads, drunks, coke addicts and the list goes on.

You, and they, can't blame all they're considerable problems on marijuana. Anectodal or not, there is plenty of evidence of secure, happy, productive people that smoke pot.

Hell, I have an Uncle who practically runs a section of Grand Central station, making well over 6 figures, has retired, and come back to work 2 or 3 times, and he smokes pot. Cmon people, take responsibility for your actions, don't blame it on a substance.