Homeowner Association Nazi's

[lab711]

My homeowner association management company Nazi's are making me sign a letter stating that I must keep the trees that I planted on my property line pruned so that they do not encroach onto the neighbor property. And if/when I sell my house, then the new owners will have to agree to this or I will have to cut down the trees when I move.

I have no problem doing this, but I want to make sure that I do not just sign their letter. I will have my attorney look it over, but does anyone else have any suggestions or recommendations.

Thanks

[BigBen]

Ah, the classical "I have no power over my life so I will force my neighbors to do my bidding."

Yes, excellent idea to get a legal opinion.

People say "If you don't like it, don't move here" and I reply "Excellent idea."

Shit, people started this thing to get control of problem neighbors that were horrible to live beside.

The pendulum has swung the other way. Now we have a Gestapo regime in neighborhoods where it is no longer fun to live.

Booooo on people and their controlling attitudes.

[samiam]

Try to get yourself and people who agree with you elected to the executive. Then you can restore some rationality to the process. Of course, then the people who want these tree regulations will become your opposition and try to take over the association executive, but then you can ...

[Gatorade Frost]

I don't see the problem here.

They want you to keep your tree on your property?

[The_Jazz]

I've been on the other side of the problem in a condo association with people that were willing to drag the rest of us down to their level. They lived on the first floor and instisted on filling the courtyard (and I mean filling) with lawn furniture, windmills, dodads and other assorted junk. They even went as far as putting plastic sheeting up on the fence to screen their portion off from the street. Mind you, this is all common property, so I owned as much (technically more) of it as they did. We had to force them to take all of it down but not before lawyers got involved.

A letter makes me suspicious, however. The association bylaws should speak for themselves, and there shouldn't be a need for a letter. What's the point of it?

[cj2112]

see if your bylaws say anything about this, if not, see what your lawyer says. You might be able to tell them to get stuffed. Either way I still don't think I'd sign it.

[william]

If you move into a homeowners association, you agree to the rules. Read them again. Growing up in Central FL, th HOAss wasn't a big deal. After moving to SoFL, that's all I read about for homeowners - they MUST belong to a HOAss. I have to say I still don't fully understand why. When I buy my home, who are you to say I can't do this or that to MY OWN property? But that's after the fact. Obviously enough people liked the idea to create one. Then again, a lot of HOAss like to push their limits - that's why I say - reread your initial contract. If it's been a while, review the records - they have to be made public.

[Smooth23]

On a topic of encrouching trees. I rent half of a duplex that's in a private lake community. Our neighbor has a tree on his property that has been leaning on our garage for quite some time. Finally, after years of bugging him about it he decides to do something about it, but what does he do? He chops a notch in it with a chainsaw to help take some weight off the garage. When that tree goes its still going to take down our garage with it.

[ClostGoth]

Sure, tree trimming is where it starts... Watch out. My in-laws recently had to take out their above-ground pool because that sort of pool became outlawed by the neighborhood association. It was an expensive job to get done because not only did they have to remove the pool but they spent time fighting the rest of the neighborhood about it too. Dad-in-law had to remove his carpentry shop out back because it was ruled that small metal buildings fall under the clause about no mobile homes. I'd like to think that most neighborhoods aren't like that, but it certainly didn't _start_ that way seven years ago when they bought the house. Sometimes it's just common sense and common curtesy - we just had two large trees removed because one was encroaching on our foundation and the other's roots were doing the same to the neighbor's retaining wall. But no one made us sign a letter saying that we _had_ to do so...

[Fire]

I will never live in a Hoas neighborhood- If I own it, and am not breaking city ordinances, then fuck them.....in the ass.....with a pickaxe.... mind you, I own property, andhave one of the nicest houses on my block, but figure, if my neighbors want something one way, then its their house, not mine.......if they junk their houses up, their loss, if it drags my "curb appeal" down a bit, then so what, eventually they will move....

[ShaniFaye]

I feel for you....but I have no advice. I think initially associations were meant to be a good thing, but I will be double damned the day I let a bunch of goody goody people tell me what I can do with property that I, not them, pay for. When they start paying my mortgage then I will think about it. I know people that cannot decorate for christmas at all, get fined if they leave their garbage cans out after a certain time on garbage day, HAVE to park their cars in their garage and other stupid stuff.

What gets me is that you have to PAY to have these people fine you....its totally ridiculous in my eyes and no house is worth having somebody else decide they dont like my pirate flag hanging off MY front porch!!!

[Aladdin Sane]

I have a friend who had a NAZI HOA. They overstepped their bounds and he got a lawyer. He was making improvements to his house that were clearly within his rights to make. My friend (through his lawyer) threatened to hold the board members of the HOA personally accountable for any harrassing actions they initiated. They backed down.
We're in Texas, which is big on property rights (although there has been some alarming erosion of late). Native Texans understand that there is a long tradition here of live-and-let-live and that's why our ancestors came here. Typically the harassing kind of HOA's are filled with folks who have just recently moved to the state. Sure enough, come to find out, my friend's HOA was put together and led by "new Texans." When they found out that their actions toward my friend could cost them personally, they backed down.

In short, you need to get a lawyer.

[Rodney]

Yeah, lawyer's the move. If they need a letter from you, then this restriction is not in the CC&Rs (California speak for the "the rules.") See, if it was already in the rules, you'd be automatically bound to agree them when you bought the house. And if it's not in the CC&Rs, why haven't they put it there? And why are they trying to make _you_ do it?

Something's fishy. See the lawyer, _and_ take a copy of all the HOA agreements. I highly recommend a real estate lawyer. One recommendation: bring the papers by in advance of your appointment, so he/she can look at them before talking to you. Your lawyer might even be cool enough not to charge for that.

[CandleInTheDark]

I never understood why you would move into an area where your neightbours had a say in your home. If I white a hot pink and neon green home, which peach trees and rocks for a garden, with gaudy out door furniture, then I will damn well have it.

[Halx]

It's tough to find the right home. Sometimes people want the new homes.. and most of them seem to be rules by HOAs. My parents bought a home a while back that was part of an HOA. They had this stupid list of shit that you had to follow. It sounded like a whole bunch of over-conscious policy to try to make absolutely sure that it was a nice place to live. On the contrary though, the neighbors were cold, unfriendly and they held it against you if you breached those rules.

We had 5 people living in the house.. and each one had a car. We had a 2-car garage. This means there was technically only room for 4 cars. Well, factor in logistics (like leaving space for the cars in the garage to get out, without having to move anything.) and we only really had 3 spaces.

The rule from the HOA is.. you are not allowed to park on the street. It wasn't that the streets weren't wide enough... it's just some shitty rule they felt like enforcing. So where did I have to park? Around the block, outside of the fucking neighborhood. I'm sure people with apartments without parking structures can sympathize, but it's not supposed to be that way when you live in fucking suburbia.

Our previous neighborhood had no HOAs. It was safe, quiet and humble. The neighbors were all friends. It was great.

Down with HOAs.

[percy]

My neighbours wanted me to trim a big oak tree that was about 100 years old because the branches were hanging over his property line. The branches were about 50 feet from his house. He went to court and had the judge sign an order to have me trim the tree so that all 100 feet high of branches didn't cross his line. If I didn't do it,he would have someone do it and bill me.So I did it. It costed me $2200.

Now the tree looks ridiculous because essentially it was cut in half. The real kicker is that the neighbour moved out about 3 months later. And that's the story I tell everyone who asks why I did to my tree what I did.

[SteelyLoins]

Originally Posted by Rodney

Yeah, lawyer's the move. If they need a letter from you, then this restriction is not in the CC&Rs (California speak for the "the rules.") See, if it was already in the rules, you'd be automatically bound to agree them when you bought the house. And if it's not in the CC&Rs, why haven't they put it there? And why are they trying to make _you_ do it?

Something's fishy. See the lawyer, _and_ take a copy of all the HOA agreements. I highly recommend a real estate lawyer. One recommendation: bring the papers by in advance of your appointment, so he/she can look at them before talking to you. Your lawyer might even be cool enough not to charge for that.

What Rodney said. There have been enough complaints about HOasses that some states are formulating laws to regulate them. Particularly after a few well-publicized incidents in which someone got fined, refused to pay it, and a forced sale on their home ensued. Plus, there are often no laws regulating public disclosure on what goes on in the meetings.

As an aside, most states have laws saying a neighbor MAY trim a tree that encroaches upon his property. In the past, I've trimmed my trees if they were causing a problem for my neighbor, but when the neighbor was an asshole, I've told them they were free to do it themselves, because I wasn't going to.

I will restate what was said before--If they want you to sign a document, they're trying to trick you into agreeing to something you might not otherwise want. Put another way, I am very interested in the statement "They are MAKING me sign something." What's the "or else" if you refuse to sign?

Again, a lawyer's advice is important here.

[Gatorade Frost]

I get that some Home Owners Associations are nazis, but in some of these cases it just doesn't make sense to me that there's a problem with what they're having you do.

Having your tree on some one else's property is a liability for you in case it falls, and it's also just an enforced courtesy that you should keep what's yours on your property. I think ultimately they're trying to keep the highest house value on the market and that's how they're doing it by making sure each plot of land isn't encroaching on some one else's property.

[Seaver]

I am very interested in the statement "They are MAKING me sign something." What's the "or else" if you refuse to sign?

That's my question. I've never bought a house before, but my brother recently did and is having the same asshole-neighbors-with-power thing going.

How does the HOA regulate you if you dont want them to? Since you're buying from either the construction company or a private citizen... how do they claim any sort of power or ability to fine?

[Derwood]

I was on our condo board when my old apartment first went condo and we had a 7 page list of rules and regulations. The list was so long just to make sure we covered all the bases, but really the whole thing could have been boiled down to 1) Don't break the law and 2) Don't be an asshole.

HOAss main purpose is to try to maintain property value in a neighborhood. The truth is that what your neighbors' homes look like does have an effect on your property value. I totally agree with ruled against putting signs in your yard, parking your 30' camper on your lawn and so forth.

My mom and dad lived in a highly regulated condo community for 7 years. It was almost entirely senior citizens and they all had sticks up their asses about everything. My dad always made sure he was on the condo board to help maintain a sense of sanity and reason when it came to regulations

[MSD]

<img src="http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3291/screenshot001cp.jpg" width="600">
That's all I have to say about that.

[Marvelous Marv]

Originally Posted by Gatorade Frost

I get that some Home Owners Associations are nazis, but in some of these cases it just doesn't make sense to me that there's a problem with what they're having you do.

Having your tree on some one else's property is a liability for you in case it falls, and it's also just an enforced courtesy that you should keep what's yours on your property. I think ultimately they're trying to keep the highest house value on the market and that's how they're doing it by making sure each plot of land isn't encroaching on some one else's property.

That's not always the case. I owned a house at the bottom of the slope leading to another house above. The developer arranged that the people at the bottom of the slope owned their slice of it, probably to avoid liability issues in case of rock or mudslides. He also planted quite a few trees on the slope.

When they got tall enough to block the view my upslope neighbor desired, he pretty much demanded (through the HOass) that I cut them. He also claimed that I had planted them, and that the roots were tearing up his patio. He had to claim it was the roots, because the limbs didn't come near his property. His patio was fine--it was easily visible from my property, and there was no damage to it.

My lawyer sent him a letter, complete with declarations from original owners that the developer planted the trees, which basically told him to fuck off. Which he did.

However, people like my neighbor are a pain in the ass to everyone else. If he'd just asked, I would have given him permission to trim the trees, but maybe he didn't want to do that, since he'd have to foot the bill.

[Marvelous Marv]

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

I feel for you....but I have no advice. I think initially associations were meant to be a good thing, but I will be double damned the day I let a bunch of goody goody people tell me what I can do with property that I, not them, pay for. When they start paying my mortgage then I will think about it. I know people that cannot decorate for christmas at all, get fined if they leave their garbage cans out after a certain time on garbage day, HAVE to park their cars in their garage and other stupid stuff.

What gets me is that you have to PAY to have these people fine you....its totally ridiculous in my eyes and no house is worth having somebody else decide they dont like my pirate flag hanging off MY front porch!!!

I find that people in states like Georgia tend to have the same attitude you do (and which I share).

People in more liberal states have NO qualms about telling other people what they plan to allow them to do with their property. Just recently I had to drop out of escrow on a piece of property that was zoned for three stories, because the people across the alley (who knew full well what zone they were buying next to) didn't think it was right to have someone actually build up to what the zoning permitted.

I know it sounds crazy, but since it's governmental, it's not surprising. The rest of my comments would be better suited for Tilted Politics.

[goddfather40]

Well, where I live I belong to TWO HOAs. There is a HOA for the condo complex, and the whole city where I live is one big HOA. In South Orange County, it is almost impossible to find a place that is not part of an HOA. The result? Beautiful landscaping, no problems with junk cars, etc., no overgrown lawns. But...there is a problem with HOA-hired Nazi parking patrol companys that will tow your car recklessly. My cousin had his car towed even though he "safe-listed" the car (safe-listing is when you call the patrol company to report that you are keeping a car parked outside overnight). Turns out they recorded the license plate wrong. Tough shit they said, and he was out $200+ bucks. When he got a new car and needed a new decal, they needed the DMV records of all three other cars in the household again, even though we sent them in when we first moved in. South Orange County is the nicest and most enjoyable place I have lived, but there is a cost in that a lot of the people are generally pompous assholes and the HOAs control everything about your house.

Marvelous Marv, the HOA thing is definitely not a liberal thing. The areas where they exist are heavily conservative areas. Even though California is solidly a blue state, there are many, many areas of strong conservatism, such as Orange County.

[oberon]

I think it's really sad people have to settle things (at least in this country) with lawyers.

Also, HOAs exist in some liberal areas too.

[Topper]

Don’t think it’s liberal or conservative. More likely just the nature of some people who have to control everything around them. Get them all on a board together and you have yourself one meddling HOA..

[MSD]

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

I find that people in states like Georgia tend to have the same attitude
...
People in more liberal states have NO qualms about telling other people what they plan to allow them to do with their property.

CT, especially the Gold Coast is pretty liberal (not to mention swarming with fucking yuppies) and I'd say it's a 50/50 split. There's the NIMBY fuckwads, and there's the rest of us that really wish that they'd get out of our backyard instead of telling us what not to build (God forbid we build another school to cut elementary school class sizes to below 35) in thiers.

[The_Jazz]

There are lots of benefits to HOA's, which is why some people chose to live in them. The association might take care of your yard or provide a pool and clubhouse or at the very least make sure that your neighbor doesn't decide to mow his lawn at 5:30 in the morning. HOA's on their own are neither a good or bad thing, but the people in charge of them pretty much make the rules.

My advice is if you don't like the direction your HOA is going, get elected to the board. Chances are you aren't the only one of your neighbors that doesn't like the direction either. It either that or move.

[Rodney]

On the other hand, most large HOAs have at least one nutbag -- often with a clique around him or her -- that just have a hereditary case of arthropodus uppus anus and never stop complaining, claiming persecution, and slandering the board and anybody connected to it.

There was one of these at my mom's development; I was wandering around one day and he and one of his henchman thought I was a new resident and immediately came over to try to recruit me to their clique, with talk of about how terrible everything was around there and how they needed my help to clean things up. When these guys were really a clique of about four against 150 other residents, and never stopped saying terrible things about anybody who disagreed with them including my mother. Nutbags.

Which is part of the reason that most people are loathe to get on the HOA boards. There's a lot of such crap to deal with, and all anybody really wants to go home and be left in peace. Which leaves most of the work to the professional busybodies and, sometimes, the nutcases. When a nutcase gets on the board of a HOA -- or worse, into an officer's position -- that's when things explode.

And frankly, people often buy into an HOA because the house is convenient or affordable, not because they give a shit about the benefits of the HOA. Condos are one things, but planned unit developments -- separate houses along a private road, usually -- are something else.

I live in a small PUD, and we have an HOA because the five houses share a private driveway. The HOA originally came with 50 pages of convenants that the developer had loaded with every possible restriction, for reasons I can't understand (down to color restrictions for venetian blinds). After a couple of years we all agreed to ignore most of the restrictions, abolished regular dues (we pass the hat for insurance and pavement maintenance) and basically run everything informally on a common-sense, play-nice-with-others basis. Works great.