Pizza delivery charges
 

Alright, here is my dilemma as a poor college student. Papa John's charges now $1.50 for a "delivery charge." Now, does the driver get this money, or is it going into the shareholder's pockets? This matters for the tip of the driver, if he/she is getting $1.50 already, no tip is necessary, maybe a move by PJ to eliminate drivers getting stiffed.

Anybody here have any inside info on where exactly the money goes?

I suspect the 1.50 factors in to the mileage for them paying back the driver for gas, car maintenance, etc.

Soccer, sorry to sidetrack things but what pizzas do you order from PJs? The few I've had from them here and in California compared favorably with wet cardboard. Maybe.

As to delivery charges, I've noticed more places adding them or limiting delivery distance since gasoline stuck to the roof.

I am just wondering how much, if any, of the fee goes to the driver. If all of it does, then it is considered a "forced tip" and maybe shouldn't tip another $2.

This site details many of the myths of pizza delivery. It's a good read, plus it has a lot of cool delivery stories. The short of it is that pizza delivery drivers usually do more for you than a resteraunt waiter does, and pizza delivery is one of the 10 most dangerous jobs in the US. Police officer and fireman doesn't make the top 10 list, to put that in perspective. So at least tip them like you would a waiter, if not more. :)

http://tipthepizzaguy.com/

Here where I am, Papa Johns is really good, and i've not seen any delivery charge... unless they've JUST started this, very recently.

Toaster126, interesting link.
I believe this link is most relevant to the USA.
Not sure how it is in Amsterdam, NL.

There are delivery charges in the UK for some items too. Bastards.

Papa John's adds $1 fee for delivery
this article was from may of 2005... the charge is on a franchise basis... and none of the charges go directly to the delivery dude... tip the dude..

i started getting in the habit of picking up my orders if possible. no delivery, no tip.

fuel surcharges???? why don't they just increase costs of products???? People don't seem to get the idea that the product is costing more they just see the fuel surcharge and don't attribute it to the cost of the goods inclusively.

I've seen this all over the Northeast from delivery of heating oil, groceries, Home Depot... *sigh*

I used to work at a local pizza place. When the gas prices went through the roof last year, the owner raised the delivery charge. At our store, the driver did get to keep a portion of the delivery charge, but simply so he/she could fill up their car so they could keep delivering all day/night.

Does this not seem contradictary? The cost of fuel has increased, not the cost of pizza dough. Now, if the drivers are responsible for their own fuel (granted, I'm assuming that they are...) then shouldn't the delivery charge be given to the delivery drivers, instead of Papa John's bottom line? Sounds to me like a nifty way to make an extra buck or two per order, while your delivery drivers get stiffed on their tips, due to customers mistakenly thinking that the drivers are being "taken care of".

Same here. Papa Johns is the second best pizza available in my neighborhood. Home Team Pizza blows them out of the water, but they're still better than the other alternatives. Nor have I seen any additional charges for delivery....unless, of course, it's just hidden in the bill.

When I worked at Domino's when I was in college we got 3$ for every pizza delivered - this was incorporated into the price as a delivery charge. Now I've noticed that the Domino's around here (as well as most pizza places) now charge this as an extra amount.

We also got (and depended on!!) tips as well. Even though there is a 3$ delivery charge I still will tip 3$ on average per order (doesnt matter the size)

Did you read it? I'm confident most if not all of it applies to NL. If something doesn't, feel free to discuss it.

I think it means is that they pay the driver, the driver makes tips, but then they have to pay them additionally for the gas they use, and since they haven't been able to keep making the money for that they have to make you pay a dollar to reimburse the driver for gas and the like.

Exactly. If you raise the price of pizza, you lose some customers. If you only add a delivery surcharge, people don't really think about it until they're about to click the "submit order" button, and by then, they're already drooling.

I don't know why people trip out about delivery charges, it's so cheap. You're paying for delivery whether there is a formal charge for it or not. At least they are up-front about it. Drivers get paid hourly plus an amount for each delivery, sometimes it's mileage based, sometimes its a flat rate. Some see this as a 'tip,' it's not. A tip is additional money to show gratitude, hence 'gratuity.'

If they didn't get money from the store, their costs would barely be covered by the pathetic $1-2 tips that so many people give and they'd LOSE money when they deliver to people who don't tip.

Overall, a delivery charge makes the most sense. Why should someone who picks up their order subsidize the cost of deliveries?

If you don't want to tip, or think that the delivery charge is a tip, get up off your butt and pick it up yourself.

When the cost of fuel goes up so does the cost of everything else. Just like it costs you more to drive to the store or work it costs the companies that deliver ingredients to restraunts more to get the food there. They pass the cost on to the restraunt. The restraunt is passing the cost on to you (with maybe some extra padding). Unfortunately by calling it a delivery fee people think the delivery driver is getting it which affects his tips so he is getting the double whammy of paying more for gas and having his tips gouged by the (probably intentionally) mislabeled "delivery fee".

I delivered food whilst in college. I got paid hourly and per delivery + tips. The per delivery I was paid is meant to cover gas. As gas prices went up so did my per delivery fee and i was paid more to put it in the gas tank, but I wasn't coming out with a net gain and I doubt the pizza delivery driver is either.

just to clarify, i only made 3$ per delivery plus tips. We were considered 'independant contractors' so we were paid in cash - was up to us to declare. No gas, no mileage.

Because it wouldn't be *fair* (whatever *that* may be) to charge more delivery $ to folks picking up their own pizza. I don't particularly care to subsidize the stay at home folks, and I don't expect them to cover me.

When I managed a Little Sleazers back in the day, the driver got half the delivery charge, and the store got half (to help pay is hourly wage). Tips are still a good thing. If you don't want to pay delivery charge AND tip... get off your duff and go pick the pizza up. *shrug*

I think you'll find that not true.
(I'm going to take a wild guess that it isn't that different in Belgium, so...)

You get paid a bit more than minimum wage, you don't have your own insurance, your own vehicle *or* your own gas to pay, since the law here requires that the business provides these items for you. No tip is ever included in the bill from the start though, so that seems to stay the same.
I think the big difference tho, is that around here, they can't pay you less than minimum because it's expected you'll be tipped.
(That's one thing I find totally idiotic about the system in the US, that they'll pay you less than minimum wage, because they expect people will tip you... Why is it called minimum wage then?)


I've read the page about tipping and reasons why... Apart from it being extremely inflated, and contradictory in half what it says, I can certainly agree with the first point: "It shows you appreciate the service. "
Sadly, most people don't...

that's market forces and the cost of doing business. in fact i'd bet that they would make more money and increased profits by doing so.

they just don't want to make it appear that they have "increased" their prices since it's an "add on" fee.

the costs of deliveries for their trucked in goods cost them plenty but there's no surcharge there. that definitely affects their bottom line.

Ditto. It'll be fresher, too. I pick mine up; if they tell me on the phone it'll be 20 minutes, I get there in 15, and they're usually taking it out of the oven just as I pay.

There are times when we do order pizza with delivery -- because we're just too damn lazy or it's pissing rain. Then I tip 20 percent -- maybe 25 if it's crappy outside and I had a coupon.

I definitely give the delivery guy whatever the amount of the coupon is for tip on top of the tip...

I emailed the Papa John's website and they forwarded it to some department on where exactly the money goes. I'll let this board know the answer from them when I receive a response. If the money goes straight to the driver, then I feel as if that is the "tip" and none extra is necessary.

On a side note, delivery charges vary from location to location and from different franchises. In some places it might be $1.00, others $1.50. Where I order from it was recently increased to $1.50 which I feel is quite ridiculous. If i order a pizza that costs $7, then you add in the $1.50 delivery charge, plus ~$0.75 for tax, and ~$1.50 for the driver tip, you reach ~$10.75 for a $7 item. Using those numbers, 35% of the money is paying for the delivery, which IMO, is too much.

It doesn't cost the driver a percentage to deliver you food. It's a fixed cost. How far do you live from the store? What is a reasonable rate to assume as a cost per mile? My work (an engineering company) pays us about 42 cents/mile when we have to use our own car. Therefore with $1.50 for a delivery charge the driver is losing money if the round trip distance is more than 3.5 miles. Think about that before you decide that $3 is too much.

I don't want to be rude or anything but if all you are giving a driver is a buck fifty (plus delivery charges), they'd prefer that you just pick it up yourself.

/By the way, $3 is 27.9%, not 35%. The driver does not get the sales tax.

//My last delivery job was great, about 80% of the customers tipped at least $5 and they didn't complain about delivery charges ($2.50). The thing that sucked was that the store was pretty new and the runs averaged 10 miles round trip.

While it was interesting to read about these caveats in NL, it doesn't cover the two most important facts in my opinion. First, being a delivery driver is very dangerous. Second, unless you compare an extremely high end resteraunt, the pizza delivery person does more for you than a waiter. So at least tip them like one.

I don't understand all this tipping (Uker), tipping is meant to encourage good service by rewarding service above and beyond the call of duty, generally a delivery driver is doing their job and little more (heavy rains, snow etc I normally tip, I didn't want to go out in it so its nice that someone is willing). Now I know its different across the pond but where does the "tip everyone" culture come from, surely a job well done is enough?

Not if you ever want your food on time again...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unless doing so made it very inconvenient to me, I did my best to make sure that orders were delivered in descending order of what that house usually tipped me (yes, if you are a semi-regular customer, we see the address and know ahead of time what you usually tip). The cheap tippers or non-tippers got the pie that sat in my car for 20 minutes (if I even took it with me to begin with) while I delivered the fresh stuff to the good customers.

If you are a regular customer somewhere, I don't understand how you can think that consistantly tipping good/bad won't effect your level of service. Frankly, it wasn't worth my time to take a delivery if it meant I'd only get a couple bucks out of it. I was more than happy to let it wait for 10 minutes while the next one comes out. Even if it was a bad tip also, at least then you'd have two bad tips instead of one. People who tip well get their orders rushed out the door: you know you'll do well on that one so it makes sense to go and hope there are more when you get back.

Well, I forgot about the sales tax. So toss those percentages out. But the Papa John's nearest my college is 1.45 miles away. For reference, let's say the gas price is $2.50. That is $0.125/mile, and in my case, 18 cents in gas money. But for the sake of argument, let's round up to 50 cents to ass in oil changes/repairs/etc. So the driver is receiving already a $1.00 tip in the form of an automatic charge.

One of the main focuses of this discussion would be when is a tip qualified, and there is another lengthy thread about that. I think a tip should be given, but as kutulu said, the better tippers receive faster pizza. In that logic, the poorer tippers have no reason or motivation to tip more as their pizza takes longer.

Tip everyone? Almost nobody gets tips. People in bars, waiters \ food delivery people, and bellhops are the only people I can think of.

the pizza place close to my house, doesnt charge a delivery fee at all plus they promise if your pizza is not at your house,piping hot, half an hour after placing yoru order, the pizza is free.

but, if they do charge, it probably goes towards the pizza delivery guys' petrol usage, if he's using he's own car and toward the company's petrol usage if the company supplies the car.

i feel that even though they do charge a delivery fee, i am obliged to give them a tip because the money that they use for the petrol is not exactly for them.but so they can deliver pizza to your house.

tip comes in afterwards in that he/she took the time to actually bring the pizza to our houses, still hot out of the oven, because we were to lazy to go and get it ourselves.

true. but there are tip jars out in way too many places... The tip jar in starbucks is the one that makes me the craziest... or in dunkin donuts...

add to that list ...hairdressers also get tipped, and taxi drivers - door men of buildings, maintenance staff of buildings at the holidays, newspaper delivery people at the holidays...

You know what burns me? Places that expect to get tips when YOU, yourself go to pick up a carry out order. Its taken me two years to convince Dave NOT to leave a tip....and he still does it sometimes at waffle house. Chinese places are the worst about it, they get really sucky around here if you go to pick up food and you dont leave a tip.

I don't tip those people.

True dat! Everyone has a tip jar out, and for what? It's not a service or a skill to take my money! It's a job. But honestly, if a cashier at a food place is extra friendly or helpful, I'll add a tip to my bill.

I regularly tip my hairdresser, my masseuse/therapy guy, and the nice lady who waxed my privates! :lol: The folks you want to take *good* care of you.

Oh, and how could I forget, don't forget to tip your belly dancers!! :D

I'm going to put a tip jar on my desk to see what kind of responses i get from my fellow workers.

Or the tip jars at drive-through coffee stands. That has to be about the strangest thing. Like paying for delivery twice. And I've done it. I've tipped these people. What was I thinking? (*slaps self*)

Well, I tip the Sbux people if I pay cash. First of all, it's not really their fault that their coffee costs $5/cup. It's also not their fault that I'm there spending so much money for coffee. Also, my wife used to be a shift manager at Sbux, so we counted on those tips for a brief period of time. If you have enough money to DRINK Starbucks coffee with any regularity... you have enough to tip them your change. *shrug* If not, you should probably get more coffee at Dunkin Donuts or 7-11 :-p (Actually, for those in the southwest, QT has pretty decent cheap coffee.... crazy!)

Can someone explain to me what someone at starbucks does thats any different that going to Dunkin Donuts? Why should someone who pours coffee at starbucks get a tip and someone at dunkin donuts not?

good idea...

You have to tip strippers or they won't pay you any attention.

Nice fuzzy math. It's a three mile round trip. The federal government set the cost at 40.5 cents/mile. Therefore, he's LOSING 21.5 cents if it's only a $1 delivery charge. (acutally, since you rounded to 50 cents, he's losing almost 50 cents on your trip)

Maybe you don't believe that the actual cost is that high. Do you want numbers to back it up?

Car
$16,000
120,000 miles total life (at this point most cars turn to shit, which for someone who deliveres pizza full time is about every two years)
$0.13/mile

Insurance
$300.00/month (assuming he's under 25 and has a PERFECT record)
4,000 miles/month
$0.08/mile

Gas
$2.50/gallon
25 mpg
$0.10/mile

Maintenance
$1,400.00/year (16 oil changes at $25 each, tires every year, transmission service, brake job plus $300 extra for other shit. This is bare minimum. If you actually followed the guidelines in your manual it would a lot more)
48,000 miles/year
$0.03/mile

That's 34 cents per mile using very conservative numbers. You can easily double maintenance costs, increase insurance costs, and drop fuel economy to 20 miles per gallon.

You are located 1.45 miles away so it's a 2.9 mile round trip. Therefore it costs him 98.6 cents for the round trip. Damn I hope he doesn't spend that 1.4 cents all at the same place.

Remember, most places will go about 2-3 miles in each direction so the total round trip can be up to 8-12 miles if you live in the corner of the delivery area. Therefore, the cost can be up to $2.72 - $4.08 per trip. On those orders he's in the hole for $1.72 - $3.08 before he gets a "tip". For this reason, a delivery charge either needs to be assesed on a per mile basis (which is too difficult to do for each customer) or large enough to cover the average cost of delivery. Therefore, $2 is quite common now.

Have you read anything I wrote? It's his COST FOR DOING BUSINESS. Money that covers expenses (which is exactly what a delivery charge is) is NOT a tip. It doesn't do anything for him except make it so he's able to work.

These are things to think about when deciding what to tip. Obviously it's a big issue to you that someone should be able to make a living delivering food to you. Just pick it up yourself. You won't be bitter about having to pay anything extra and you won't be fucking up some driver's day.

They do a better job keeping rats & flies out of the pastry cabinets?

Seriously though, I agree. Tipping is engrained in society at many levels (exec bonuses, political contributions, payoffs) yet much exists without written rules and so can be difficult to understand. It's often associated with underhandedness: Unreported, untaxed, undocumented.

Kutulu, remember that people ordering are generally presented with advertising that says "free delivery" (or $1/2/3...) That's the expectation, along with an assumption that the merchant compensates the delivery people in some way. The reality is at the borders yet the consumer has to learn through nudging or word-of-mouth.

I would be more comfortable if ads said something like "be sure to tip the delivery dude. We don't pay squat." Won't happen though, so just as with in-restaurant food service, establishments will continue to pay the minimum to attract people who assume their next paycheck is based on charity. And we have to pay or risk "bonus toppings." Is doesn't surprise me people are often resistant to the concept.

I think the idea of people fucking with food is blown way out of proportion. I worked at one pizzaria for 7 years and another for 9 months and I never heard anything about that from anyone. I've hung out with serves for a long time as well and never heard of them doing anything either.

Kutulu, I mean no disrespect to you, so let's keep the comments on a friendly discussion please. And this is not the general tipping thread, just pizza delivery. There is another thread on where to tip.

My main point is that Papa John's does not explicitly state how they pay their drivers, how much they pay, and if they receive the delivery charge money. I am positive that these variables change from chain to chain, but it would nice to know.

As somebody mentioned above, quite bluntly, if the store posted a sign that says, "Please tip, we don't pay our driver's squat", that would let the customer know that the driver will be screwed on a miniscule tip.

It's a matter of a few things. First, tips, if given, are generally based on a percentage of your total bill. This goes back to the whole, if you don't want to tip someone, cook at home or serve yourself. *shrug* It just makes sense. This means that a tip on a $1.25 cup of coffee, versus a $4.25 cup of coffee are fairly different. When I go to Sbux I usually get an iced triple grande vanilla latte... with tax it's roughly $4.33. I usually give them the $0.67. It's not a lot of money, and frankly again if I can't afford to give them 67 cents, I really shouldn't be spending $4 on coffee when i can brew it at home for a mere fraction of the price.

As for the ingrained tipping in the US... it's part of how we operate. In Singapore, servers don't expect tips, but they also get paid decently by the establishments (even international chains such as The Hard Rock Cafe). In the US, if you are in a tipped position, you have a seperate minimum wage (mine was $2.62 when minimum wage was $5.25). It's expected that you get tipped and that is how you balance your income. If servers made $5.25/hour, it'd be a bit (but not much) different. I doubt many pizza delivery guys make more than minimum wage, if that.

Again, it's an expected part of the transaction, if you are too poor or cheap to give a tip, you should not be lazy and cook/feed/serve yourself. It makes perfect sense to me.

the problem with tipping at starbucks, is that it's pretty well documented that starbucks employees are not underpaid. they are well compensated for the work they do and some have benefits available to them... There is no reason for them to be begging for tips, other than the fact that they can...

Here in Oregon, servers make a minimum $7.50 an hour. There are a number of states in the West where tipping doesn't lower the minimum wage. When I worked in a restaurant as a cook, we got a share of the tips, and I usually made $20 for a lunch shift and anywhere from $40-80 on a dinner shift. Good money, given that I was also paid $8.18 an hour.

But yes, consumers should be aware of which states do change their minimum wage for servers. Otherwise you're seriously impacting how much someone takes home with a bad tip.

Also in Singapore the guys at McDonald's get pissed off when you take your tray and throw it away. They also have people to take the parking ticket out of the machine and hand it to you. Elevator operators for push button elevators... Door openers for electronic automatic doors....

and by that last part, then you should be tipping the Dunkin' Donuts guy too.

Exactly, because they can. If all it takes is writing "TIPS" on a piece of paper and taping it to a jar for an extra $20, then more power to them. It's not like they hand you a bill with a gratuity________ for you to fill in. Its all optional, really, if management doesn't have a problem with it, I dont' see why someone wouldn't do that.

/jack

That delivery charge doesn't count as a tip.

I made minimum wage back in '74, $2.00/hour as I recall -- working at a Straw Hat Pizza store, in fact, though we didn't deliver. As an 18- or 20-year-old who was still carried on the parents' health insurance, you could just about live on 2/hr if you got a cheap basement apartment or shared a two-bedroom apartment with somebody else.

If that $2/hour minimum wage had kept up with inflation (according to a handy inflation calculator), it would be $8.32 an hour today, more or less. I doubt that many pizza delivery drivers -- or a whole lot of fast food people in general -- get that much. But that's what you'd need to live as well as we did 30 years ago. What's the federal minimum now, $5.75? That's a joke.

Whether you're talking pizza delivery drivers or any other food service type, I can tell you one thing: the rise of the tip jar came with the fall of the minimum wage. As the minimum wage fell farther and farther behind inflation, those tip jars grew more and more numerous. That is a fact. From that, you can draw your own conclusions and judgments.

Actually, the minimum wage is a federally set standard, though some states may make it higher, the standard is the federal minimum wage (and no state can make it lower).

I don't see simply having a tip jar out as "begging". *shrug*

Well, sure you should, but instead of $0.60 it'll be maybe $0.20. *shrug* I have no problem with that.

STRIPPERS! I totally forgot about strippers. If you don't tip them, they will cause trouble, and the meat axes minding the place will decide you should leave.

Also, waiters\esses in KS make $2.13 an hour.

[QUOTE=kutulu]Not if you ever want your food on time again...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:





I have a philosophical difference with that. I know you were joking (sort of), but I consider tipping to be akin to blackmail.

What if the philosophy spreads? Tip the cable guy or he won't show up next time to fix your cable? Tip your doctor or he won't write you a prescription? Tip the guy at the gym for giving you a towel that's clean? Tip the guy at the movie rental place for renting you a non-scratched DVD?

I'd prefer to know the up-front, out-the-door price on my goods and services, even if it's higher, and dispense with the additional reward system for the person to do his job properly.

Now if we could just do the same for our elected representatives. (Oops, politics.)

I tip the pizza guy because like Kutulu said, there's hidden charges that you don't even think about, like the overall cost of actually driving around your town. I tip $3-5 for any pizza delivery I request. At my school club meetings, we get 10 pizzas in the big parties, and I tip $20. They're <I>Driving</I> to your house to bring your lazy ass food, risking crashing their car or getting a ticket, not to mention having to put up with pets, mean dogs, etc. just so you can stuff your face. They deserve something besides the crap wages they get at the pizza place.

Same with waiters and waitresses -- my mom worked in restaurants for most of her life and the average wage is $2.00 an hour. My mom has received PLENTY of negative paychecks (she owes the place money) for taking a break between a shift and eating a salad or something. Waiters and waitresses do NOT make standard salary "plus" tip. No, they make CRAP salary, plus tip. They depend on your tip as their salary.

Now, if the pizza guy or the waitresses ever act rude or deliver poor service, then a small (or no) tip is necessary. If they did their job (fill your drink in a reasonable amount of time, get the pizza there in a quality condition) then they deserve a nice tip.

Oh, and if your food or pizza gets to your house late, 90% of the time it's not the driver or the waiter's fault. They don't make the food so why should they be penalized by getting no tip? Think about these things next time you're about to walk out a restaurant without leaving a tip because your food took longer than expected. Was it <B>really</B> the waitresses fault that you didn't get your food on time?

I worked for the loca papa johns a couple years ago for a few months and still keep in touch with some of the managers. When I was there drivers made minimum wage (I think it was $5.something at the time) and got a per order gas fee that varied with gas price ($.80 per order when i was there). That was before the delivery charges were started. Last I heard they had upped the per order to 1.10 for rising gas prices. The delivery charge being added didn't alter the way the drivers get paid by the store. It just offset the stores costs for paying the drivers.


The following isn't directed at anyone in particular. Just throwing it out there.

At the above rate if you live 3 miles from the restraunt and tip $2 the driver is netting ~$.70 for taking your pizza out of the oven, boxing it, cutting it, making sure you have the propper sauces/pepperoncinis/drinks/etc, and bringing it to your door. How much effort would you go to for $.70?

For all the lazy comments, I attend a University and I have no car. Therefore I am unable to drive to pick up an order. Delivery fast-food is a college necessity. The main point was that Papa John's has kept increasing the delivery charge without informing the customer of A) increasing the charge and B) letting the customer know where the money is going.

Just a heads up to all of our delivery drivers out there (in the US anyway) - if you are using your personal vehicle to make deliveries (which is usually the case), your auto insurance probably does not cover that use unless you specifically get permission from your insurance carrier. You probably heard all about that at your orientation (hopefully), but it never hurts to check. The last thing you want is to get into a small-ish accident with someone who's pissed off and not have your insurance pay up. Your employer should have coverage for them and you if its a big enough accident, but if it's only a few thousand dollars in damage and no one's hurt, you could have a problem.

/threadjack

I'm going to be delivering for Dominos this summer, I'll be between my first and second year at college. I don't think there's any delivery fee, and I'll be paid $6.25 an hour (Minimum wage here is $7.25) and I'll get paid $0.25 per mile driven. I'm curious to see how my town tips, I'm hoping it'll be good, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up. So... tip your delivery driver!