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Old 02-28-2006, 09:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Your Kid's Teacher Used To Be A Man...Now What?

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School board OKs return to classroom after sex change

EAGLESWOOD TOWNSHIP, New Jersey (AP) -- To students at Eagleswood Elementary School, she used to be Mr. McBeth.

Now, after undergoing a sex change, 71-year-old Lily McBeth is ready to return to teaching as Miss McBeth.

Despite criticism from parents, the school board on Monday stood by its decision to allow McBeth to resume working as a substitute teacher.

After two hours of public debate and a private meeting with McBeth and her lawyer, the board took no action on calls by several parents to bar McBeth from returning to the school where she taught for five years before becoming a woman.

"It was magnificent," McBeth said afterward. "You saw democracy in action."

McBeth, a retired sales executive who was married for 33 years and had three children, underwent gender reassignment surgery last year and re-applied for her job under her new name.

McBeth on Monday told the school board and the crowd that she loves teaching and children, and looks forward to returning to the classroom.

"This is not something I got into just as a whim," she said.

Several parents said children in the school -- which consists of kindergarten through sixth grade -- were not old enough to understand the concept of changing one's gender.

"I, as a parent, am appalled to have this issue brought into my child's psychology," Steve Bond said.

Vincent Mustacchio predicted "chaos" at the school when the students learned of McBeth's surgery.

Young children will be confused by the conflicting appearance of McBeth, who has a deep voice and masculine features but otherwise looks like a woman, other parents said.

"I will not allow you to put my kids in a petri dish and hope it all turns out fine," said Mark Schnepp, who had taken out an ad in a local newspaper urging parents to turn out for the meeting.

Several people spoke in support of McBeth, including three transgender people, two former students of McBeth's and a handful of others, saying that the fact that she is a good teacher was more important than whether she appears as a man or a woman in class.

"There's really nothing to fear because a person is transgender," said Karina Mari, a mother of three school-age children who said she has transgender relatives.

School board attorney Paul Carr said McBeth was a good teacher who had received favorable reviews during her tenure as a substitute.

Earlier this month, the board voted 4-1 to accept her application to return to the classroom.

It's unclear how soon McBeth will resume teaching, Carr said. That depends on the need for substitutes and the availability of certified teachers who get priority when a spot opens up, he said.

Steven Goldstein, chairman of Garden State Equality, a gay rights advocacy group supporting McBeth's bid to resume teaching, called the school board's action historic.
First of all, I'll start by saying that I think this is a really good thing in terms of the rights afforded/granted to transgendered people. And I'm really happy that the school board voted 4-1 to accept her application. It gives me some faith in humanity. I think it's clear that Miss McBeth is confident in who she is, and loves teaching enough to want to continue doing so.

And she'll need that confidence when she goes back to school. Because we all know how cruel kids can be. And not just cruel, but confused. And I'm concerned that the brouhaha brought about - by kids, their parents, the media - will wind up overshadowing her teaching, which is what she wants to do in the first place. I think it will take a lot to erode her confidence, but no doubt, it WILL be tested. In addition, there's no guarantee that she'll actually be called upon to substitute - and if she's not, will it be because other teachers are genuinely more qualified, or higher up in the priority list, or because the school board has received complaints and threats?

This is a tough issue. I'd like to know what you think. Do you support the school board's decision? How would you respond if your 8 year-old came back asking you why Miss McBeth looked kind of like a woman but sounded like a man?
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I support the surgery, the school boards decision, and I would tell my daughter 100% of the truth. If you are completly honest with your child they're less likely to be confused now and pissed at you for oversimplifying or lying later.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:05 AM   #3 (permalink)
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"I, as a parent, am appalled to have this issue brought into my child's psychology," Steve Bond said.
I, as a human being, am appalled that someone would say this. I would much rather it be introduced and explained now, than to let the child develop harmful views of transgendered people. Sadly, I think the child of this parent will have to grow up with these views.

I support the school boards decision, as the gender of a person shouldn't be the focus of the matter. The only focus should be if the person is qualified to teach children or not.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The best part is; this was an episode of the Simpsons last week.

I for one welcome our new transgenered overlords.

...and I support the board's decsion.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Can I just make sure I understand this....this person had a sex change at the age of 70? and is still teaching at the age of 71?
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guccilvr
I support the school boards decision, as the gender of a person shouldn't be the focus of the matter. The only focus should be if the person is qualified to teach children or not.
I agree with you. In a perfect world, that would be the only focus. But in the real world, it's not going to be the case. She's going to have to teach while kids whisper about her, perhaps throw things, (and you thought being a sub was bad before...), she'll have to teach to a class where perhaps half the kids are absent because their parents won't allow them in her class. In other words, she's going to have all of these issues that obstruct her from doing the only thing she wanted to do in the first place. And then, does that make her qualified to teach children, if she can't effectively teach them?
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Trying to resist making Lady MacBeth joke...

That said, I think the board made the right (if difficult) decision.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadro2000
How would you respond if your 8 year-old came back asking you why Miss McBeth looked kind of like a woman but sounded like a man?
I would tell the kid the truth. It's the same with explaining any "uncomfortable" subject (where babies come from, gender, politics).

On the other hand, why bother explaining it? She's a woman now. I would only explain it if neccessary (after all my born a woman grandmother sounds like a man).
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadro2000
I agree with you. In a perfect world, that would be the only focus. But in the real world, it's not going to be the case. She's going to have to teach while kids whisper about her, perhaps throw things, (and you thought being a sub was bad before...), she'll have to teach to a class where perhaps half the kids are absent because their parents won't allow them in her class. In other words, she's going to have all of these issues that obstruct her from doing the only thing she wanted to do in the first place. And then, does that make her qualified to teach children, if she can't effectively teach them?

Kids may tell jokes and whisper, but they'll still listen. If the kids aren't in school it's the parents own bigotry that is stopping them from going. Kids will always be kids.. hell I was (some will say I still am) Satan incarnate when I was in school, but I still learned a few things.

Since it's something she wanted to do in the first place, and because it's still taboo (Transgender) somewhat, she won't mind the obstacles that she'll face. In fact, she may be doing more good than just teaching a few kids. She may have just broken one of many doors down.
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Old 02-28-2006, 11:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Yes Mr. Garrison.

First Southpark had the 'All the flims are about gay cowboys eating pudding' come true.

Now this.
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Old 02-28-2006, 11:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Yes Mr. Garrison.

First Southpark had the 'All the flims are about gay cowboys eating pudding' come true.

Now this.


someone had to do it.
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Old 02-28-2006, 12:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 02-28-2006, 12:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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MOD NOTE ** Keep it on topic people**
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Old 02-28-2006, 12:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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These parents should be warned: when children are taught to hate a group of people, it is easier for them to hate anyone, incluidng their parents.
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Since I am feeling rather lazy today I will just c&p my response from another place:
Trust me, when a 6 year old sees and recognizes that Mr. M is dressing as a woman, that 6 year old will ask, usually quite loudly and without remorse, 'Why is Mr. M dressed like a lady??'
It's the point of confusion that should be addressed by parents in a non-condemning manner, but instead they take the easy way out by using their kids as their excuse for not willing to discuss this type of diversity. The great thing about small children, at least of school age, is when they don't understand they SAY they don't understand and that is the time to talk to them. To stand there and tell anyone that THEY are confusing to their children and therefore should not be around them is a copout.
Addendum: Anyone that can do their job in the best manner needed and is not considered a personal threat to the welfare of their charges should be allowed to do that job regardless of their 'appearance' or personal choices. Hell, if the teachers in TFP alone were judged and hired on personal choices and lifestyles, they'd all be out of jobs.
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Most of you arn't parents. I've been a parent myself for about a year and a half. While intellectually you can imagine being a parent, no one who doesn't have children can understand the emotional attachment involved. My knowledge of evolutionary biology may tell me its all chemical, but it doesn't matter, it just is.

Likewise you don't need to be a parent to think that a grown man wanting his penis to be removed has something fundamentally wrong with him. Regardless of your stance on transsexuals, something didn't work right at some point in genetics, development, whatever that caused this desire.

When something this basic is wrong, it is natural to think what else is wrong with this person. Perhaps nothing else is wrong but the concept of removing ones genitals is alien to most thinking.

Now comes the protective instinct of parents. You don't get between a grizzly and her cubs, well the same applies to soccer moms. If you are odd, and very little is as odd as a sex change, your instinct is to protect. You don't CARE about the feelings of the other person, you worry about your child. As such I would not fault a parent from not wanting their child exposed to this.

I personally think the kids involved are young enough that it wouldn't matter, I would be more worried if it were high school because it would become far more of a distraction.
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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the question implies something needs to be done.

i dunno. Maybe go to parent/teacher conferences...or read my kid's homework...something like that. You know..what you usually do.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Most of you arn't parents. I've been a parent myself for about a year and a half. While intellectually you can imagine being a parent, no one who doesn't have children can understand the emotional attachment involved. My knowledge of evolutionary biology may tell me its all chemical, but it doesn't matter, it just is.

Likewise you don't need to be a parent to think that a grown man wanting his penis to be removed has something fundamentally wrong with him. Regardless of your stance on transsexuals, something didn't work right at some point in genetics, development, whatever that caused this desire.

When something this basic is wrong, it is natural to think what else is wrong with this person. Perhaps nothing else is wrong but the concept of removing ones genitals is alien to most thinking.

Now comes the protective instinct of parents. You don't get between a grizzly and her cubs, well the same applies to soccer moms. If you are odd, and very little is as odd as a sex change, your instinct is to protect. You don't CARE about the feelings of the other person, you worry about your child. As such I would not fault a parent from not wanting their child exposed to this.

I personally think the kids involved are young enough that it wouldn't matter, I would be more worried if it were high school because it would become far more of a distraction.
Congrats on being a parent for 18 months. It's gets 'better'.... As the mother of twins for almost 14 years, I can assure you that most of what you say is BS if (big if in some parts of the country, for sure) the parent is open-minded enough to consider all angles. Our primary job, those of us that at least make the attempt to do it, is to teach our kids about feelings and how to both express them, not hurt others and be open enough for them to know they can come to us. "Exposed" to this? I don't think this teacher will be showing scars, etc.
Having worked with kids both as a volunteer in elementary school and as an aide for three years, rest assured that kids WILL ask questions, make comments and want to know things. High school kids are ruder, but they still have a curiosity that should be met logically and without prejudging and if they prejudge, should be shown why that is wrong. It is nice to see that now at least, while some of the rudeness is still around, acceptance is more commonplace than it was way back when I was that age and they ask and confide in those they trust.
My definition of 'odd' in terms of protection is NOT Mr. M becoming Ms. M, it's the slovenly guy up the street who likes handing out candy or the 50 year old man who dresses like the 70's Alice Cooper, rides a bike and can't form a sentence without saying 'doooood'.
Parents that use that 'I want to protect my child' are full of bull. They want to protect themselves from the harder parts of the job they chose to do-teach their own kids about the world without projecting their own bigotries.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo

Likewise you don't need to be a parent to think that a grown man wanting his penis to be removed has something fundamentally wrong with him. Regardless of your stance on transsexuals, something didn't work right at some point in genetics, development, whatever that caused this desire.

When something this basic is wrong, it is natural to think what else is wrong with this person. Perhaps nothing else is wrong but the concept of removing ones genitals is alien to most thinking.
So we should punish these people because other people can't get their heads around the concept?

The first incorrect assumption is that something is fundamentally wrong with the teacher. If it's genetics, are we going to keep people with other genetic disorders from teaching? If it's developmental/psychological, how about we turn away anyone who suffers from depression, or has been sexually abused? As long as this teacher is fit to teach and can pass all the screenings that other teachers have to pass, I see no reason to turn her away.

Discomfort about the situation is absolutely normal and understandable; catering to that discomfort by denying a good teacher the chance to practice her profession is not. There are plenty of parents out there who deep deep down would object to having a black person teach their child. Should we cater to that discomfort as well?
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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wouldnt especially bother me, and I wouldnt have an issue with my kids knowing about people who change gender identity. Its part of the world they're going to live in, I dont see any sense in hiding it, and I dont see it as something especially immoral or unpleasant in any event. All that matters to me is that if the person is a good teacher, who cares about the kids and can connect with them, encourage them, educate them... Im not really that bothered what their sexual preference is, or if they have changed their gender.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:35 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkette
So we should punish these people because other people can't get their heads around the concept?

The first incorrect assumption is that something is fundamentally wrong with the teacher. If it's genetics, are we going to keep people with other genetic disorders from teaching? If it's developmental/psychological, how about we turn away anyone who suffers from depression, or has been sexually abused? As long as this teacher is fit to teach and can pass all the screenings that other teachers have to pass, I see no reason to turn her away.

Discomfort about the situation is absolutely normal and understandable; catering to that discomfort by denying a good teacher the chance to practice her profession is not. There are plenty of parents out there who deep deep down would object to having a black person teach their child. Should we cater to that discomfort as well?
Wanting your penis removed is self mutilation at its most profound form. Something is wrong with you if you want that. WHAT precisely is wrong with you I don't know, no one does for sure, but it is in fact not even remotely normal.

If you want to rationalize this until the point where we must accept everything as wonderful and normal, be my guest.

So likewise let me straw man you like you did me and say where do we draw a line? Is a known horsefucker ok to teach your kids? What about a necrophiliac? How about a 'grown baby' who wants to wear a diaper to school? Should we cater to that discomfort as well?

Don't take this tract with me. I said I wouldn't have a problem with it myself, but others should understand where this feeling comes from. I do think this would be an issue with a highschool age kid because we all know what sexuality is like in highschool and this would be a MAJOR disruption to teaching.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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If one is upfront about it, it wouldn't be a distraction. It becomes one when the whispering, asides and rumors float like fruitflies on a rotten apple.
Example: In the Jr. High where I worked, there were two obviously gay male teachers and they began to see each other offtime. Everyone knew. Everyone liked these two immensely-one was a music teacher, the other a permanent sub. Kids knew. Did they care? Not on-campus. They spoke highly of both. You aren't giving kids the credit for having at least some brains. And I assure you, they are more aware, more understanding and more accepting than they were 30, 20 or even possibly 10 years ago. Hell, I wasn't even accepted for having acne...they've come a very long way, thankfully.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Now comes the protective instinct of parents. You don't get between a grizzly and her cubs, well the same applies to soccer moms.
The bear is protecting her offspring from a predator. The soccer mom is imagining a need to protect her children from something that she doesn't understand. Everyone in my neighborhood seemed concerned about the gay guy in the neighborhood but few of them knew about the registered sex offender we had across the street from my house. Being gay or transexual doesn't make someone want to harm children, have sex with them, bake them in a cake and eat them or any other bizarre thing one can imagine.

Edit: Yes I agree the parents intention is to try to protect the child, but really what are they protecting them from in this case?
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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To a small child, anything can be controversial. A person in a wheelchair can elicit inappropriate questions, a person of different skin tone can cause verbal curiosity to emenate from their curious minds. Most kids are only going to know something is up because of all the attention she's getting.

These parents need to get over themselves. Their precious little shits aren't going to be perverted or mentally damaged by a kindly old woman with a deep voice and big hands. If she's a good teacher, then that's that, and nothing else.
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog
To a small child, anything can be controversial. A person in a wheelchair can elicit inappropriate questions, a person of different skin tone can cause verbal curiosity to emenate from their curious minds. Most kids are only going to know something is up because of all the attention she's getting.

These parents need to get over themselves. Their precious little shits aren't going to be perverted or mentally damaged by a kindly old woman with a deep voice and big hands. If she's a good teacher, then that's that, and nothing else.
So a good teacher wearing on oversized diaper would be ok too?

I'm just wondering where we draw the line here, or if we do.

"Mommy didn't Mrs. Smith used to be Mr. Smith?"

"Yes dear, but she didn't feel comfortable being Mr. Smith so now shes Mrs. Smith."

"Mommy why is Mr. Smith wearing a diaper and has a binki on a string around his neck?"

"Mr. Smith is most comfortable when he dresses like a baby, so thats what he does."
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I support the surgery, the school boards decision, and I would tell my daughter 100% of the truth. If you are completly honest with your child they're less likely to be confused now and pissed at you for oversimplifying or lying later.
i agreee 100%.

there is no point in the idea that some people have of shielding a child from people who are a part of our society.

Children should be taught to embrace differences. and i would have no problem explaining this to my child if they had this individual as their teacher.

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Old 02-28-2006, 05:34 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I'm happy she can still teach in the district.
It's just something else the kids can learn about.
She spent 70 years as a man.
( "his" sex life may be over anyway)
If she wants to spend the rest as a woman it's ok with me :-)
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:37 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Wanting your penis removed is self mutilation at its most profound form. Something is wrong with you if you want that. WHAT precisely is wrong with you I don't know, no one does for sure, but it is in fact not even remotely normal.
Hearkening back to the circumcision thread - this seems to be the complete opposite of what you were arguing there. So which way is it? Is cutting off part of your penis OK, but cutting all of it is wrong?

This is obviously a much larger operation than circumcision - and people still obviously feel the need to do it. We shouldn't be judging their need to do it - we should try to be accepting of their choice.

This is a similar kind of discussion to circumcision, that I know will need to take place, at the appropriate time (i.e when my son says "my penis looks like this, Jimmy's penis looks different. why?)

These school kids are unlikely to see their teachers penis or lack thereof - I think the area that would really need addressing is "why is this teacher dressed as a woman?". As parents, it is our responsibilty to explain things to our children - this world is full of stuff that is outside our usual normality - this is just another of them.
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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So a good teacher wearing on oversized diaper would be ok too?
We're talking about a transgendered person, not a fetishist, which are totally different things. Also, this is little more than a "slippery slope" argument, which is specious at best (and completely irrelevent at worst).
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
So a good teacher wearing on oversized diaper would be ok too?
There are laws about sanitation in school. They could wear the diaper, but not use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
I'm just wondering where we draw the line here, or if we do.
How about.....the law. If you don't think it's fair, write your local representative and see that transgender surgeries are made to be illegal. Until then it's all hot air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
"Mommy didn't Mrs. Smith used to be Mr. Smith?"
"Yes, Mrs. Smith was born with a ladies brain in a man's body. Now she is happy."

I happen to know that one of my daughters future teachers (unless she leaves or is made to leave) is gay. Do you know how I know? Everyone thinks it's their buisness, and, due to their inexperience with homosexuals, seem to have the belief that homosexuality is contagious like influenza and are worried that their child will be forever warped and corrupted.
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:40 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Ustwo... you start off by suggesting that this is how Other (soccor Mom's) might see this and further suggest that you don't agree. They you go in post 21 to agree with the Soccor Mom.

Which is it?

By the way, necrophilia, beastiality and pedophilia are all illegal activities and have to do with deviant sexuality. What does this have to do with transgenderism? You can't seriously be equating them?

As a parent, I know exactly what I would say and what I have said to explain transgenderism to my kids. Like I said above, the truth or nothing at all depending on the situation.
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Perhaps our diaper-fixated respondent is just pushing buttons....in which case, unlike Pavlov's dogs, this is as close to a reaction as it gets....
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:36 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Some of you are able to accept just about anything as being "normal" or at least "acceptable," all in the name of HUMAN RIGHTS. And I agree with you to a certain point. But there is just no denying the fact that this type of behavior is more than a little bit 'off'. Especially in a school environment.

Again, where do you draw the line? Instead of throwing non sequtirs, why don't you answer this question? You can't possibly consider a sex-change as a natural phenomenon?

The line for what is considered normal and acceptable continues to be pushed and pushed and pushed by those who choose to live in such abnormal ways.

This guy should be able to do just about anything he wants in life. But teaching little kids is a little iffy in my mind.
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:42 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docbungle
This guy should be able to do just about anything he wants in life. But teaching little kids is a little iffy in my mind.
Why? What will prevent her from being a good teacher now that she doesn't have testicles?
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:46 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Let me ask this....what crime has been committed here that would forbid this person from teaching? That is where I draw the line, ridiculous scenarios notwithstanding.
If this person is qualified, has passed the necessary certifications and has years of successful teaching past, what, pray tell is the problem? Ms. M has an Adam's Apple?? Bet if you met some transgenders in passing, you wouldn't know and certain ones are making baseless comments on the fact that this one aspect of a person's life has been brought to the forefront. This 19th century thinking of all teachers being only one step down from saintly is so archaic. Personally, having worked side by side with teachers for several years, I find them to be superhuman, maybe...but certainly not superomnipotent. I have the highest regard for them and next to parenting, is probably the hardest, most responsible job a person could have.
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:49 PM   #36 (permalink)
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kids are too delicate to have that in their mind.... it will freak out and pervert elementry kids.... middle school kids would make fun of it way to much, and he would get made fun of and could inspire kids to become transgendered in highschool.... plus it sparks sexual thoughts in the kids..... as for college, i think he could do that without a problem
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:53 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Wanting your penis removed is self mutilation at its most profound form. Something is wrong with you if you want that. WHAT precisely is wrong with you I don't know, no one does for sure, but it is in fact not even remotely normal.
Nah, it's corrective surgery. We don't know what the cause is with 100% certainty, but there is strong evidence. When this woman dies, I'd be willing to lay a large wager on her BSTc being female in appearance.

Also, there's no evidence that transsexuals suffer more often from psychological disorders other than those directly related to their transsexualism.

Quote:
Don't take this tract with me. I said I wouldn't have a problem with it myself, but others should understand where this feeling comes from. I do think this would be an issue with a highschool age kid because we all know what sexuality is like in highschool and this would be a MAJOR disruption to teaching.
In North America there have been three or four MTF teachers transition on the job, all at the high school level. One quit her job as an art teacher the following year due to stress, but was performing her job adequately at the time. Another transitioned in Canada a few years ago and continues to teach high school English, and one teacher recently did the same in . . . somewhere in the Northeast. It remains to be seen how her case will turn out.

There are others doing so quite quietly in stealth mode.

Several others have attempted transition and been fired, by far the most common reaction.

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Old 02-28-2006, 06:57 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ShaniFaye
Can I just make sure I understand this....this person had a sex change at the age of 70? and is still teaching at the age of 71?
She's a substitute. Retired teachers frequently substitute to make extra income. It's actually possible to retire and substitute and make more money that way if you've been teaching long enough.

The age of her SRS is very unusual, but not unheard of. I can guaran-damn-tee you Dr. Preecha was her surgeon, as nobody else will operate on women that age.

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Old 02-28-2006, 06:57 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docbungle
Some of you are able to accept just about anything as being "normal" or at least "acceptable," all in the name of HUMAN RIGHTS. And I agree with you to a certain point. But there is just no denying the fact that this type of behavior is more than a little bit 'off'. Especially in a school environment.

Again, where do you draw the line? Instead of throwing non sequtirs, why don't you answer this question? You can't possibly consider a sex-change as a natural phenomenon?

The line for what is considered normal and acceptable continues to be pushed and pushed and pushed by those who choose to live in such abnormal ways.

This guy should be able to do just about anything he wants in life. But teaching little kids is a little iffy in my mind.
I have no idea what someone changing their gender has to do with their ability to teach.

I think you have to realize that a transgendered person has no obligation to tell you that they have changed gender. For all you know, the woman you flirted with at the bar last night used to be Fred.

In the end, all that matters is that person is qualified to teach, non-sequitors about illegal activities aside. What you personally feel about it being "deviant" is irrelevant.
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Old 02-28-2006, 07:03 PM   #40 (permalink)
32 flavors and then some
 
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Likewise you don't need to be a parent to think that a grown man wanting his penis to be removed has something fundamentally wrong with him. Regardless of your stance on transsexuals, something didn't work right at some point in genetics, development, whatever that caused this desire.
Being in a body that's the wrong sex is a fundamental problem, I agree completely. The something that didn't work out is very likely a faulty hormone wash at about the 12th week of gestation, though there are other current theories.

Quote:
When something this basic is wrong, it is natural to think what else is wrong with this person. Perhaps nothing else is wrong but the concept of removing ones genitals is alien to most thinking.
Natural perhaps, but wrong. And the genitals aren't removed, they are surgical altered into the form that matches the patient's internal gender.

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Last edited by Gilda; 02-28-2006 at 07:05 PM..
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