How Much Jail Time for Women Who Have Abortions?
 

Newsweek commentary regarding the video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20010696/site/newsweek/

Wow, very interesting. I'd never thought about asking people that exact question, but they looked lost for a minute there.

I would have had an answer ready.

A system would need to be in place to prove that contraceptive were used and failed for a woman and man to be excused. If they were able to prove they used contraceptives and failed, they would be allowed to abort the child. If not attempt was made to be responsible, there would be legal repercussions. Women who would violate an hypothetical law banning abortion should be punished. Obviously she will birth the child, which she would be totally responsible for. Because it's clear that the woman isn't mature enough to procreate, her procreation rights would be removed for no less than 5 years. If she breaches those rules and becomes pregnant again, she has her tubes tied.

Too many people just do things without thinking it all the way through.

will, I'm glad you've taken the time to think it through. I stilll don't want to live in your world.

I don't think it should be illegal.

corresponding article:

You're not a big fan of the idea of freedom, are you? ;)

EDIT: Also, Cyn, thanks for posting the article text. I have absolutely no idea why that didn't cross my mind this time around :crazy:

It's not my answer, it's an answer I'd expect from someone who had actually thought about the question. I'm way too liberal to want to impose my personal philosophy on people via the law (unless it has something to do with guns).

In a perfect world people would act like responsible adults and take responsibility for their actions. It's not a perfect world, and those dolts that shag without protection apparently don't have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I'll never respect people who don't use condoms, but it's not up to me to say whether they can get an abortion or not.

First of all, what kind of magical system would allow a couple to prove that they were using contraceptives? Should they be required to show recipts from birth control purchases, along with proof of intercourse using said birth control?
Under your system, would I be required by law to videotape every sexual encounter I have, prominently displaying a date-stamped proof of purchace of my condoms (or any other type of birth control) while I'm engaging in the act of baby-making as legal proof that we took every responsible measure to not create a fetus?
What would happen to the children born to people who are obviously unfit to become parents? Do you throw them into the oubliette of being Wards of the State? Is that any better than being born into a 'family' (whatever definition you give it) that wasn't expecting them?
And do you really think that making unprotected sex illegal for certain people will stop them from having babies? If anything, your system would increase the numbers of women abandoning babies in dumpsters a thousandfold.
I could go on and on poking holes in this plan, but the end result is that hundreds of thousands would suffer, millions of dollars would be wasted trying to monitor these unwanted pregnancies, and nothing would change.

Edit - Okay, maybe you don't really feel that way. But do you realize how futile the idea of making unprotected sex and having unwanted babies illegal is? Maybe if we loosen up on the ideas of contraception and sex education, the next generation might be a little more educated and responsible?

Cyn, thanks for posting the text of the article. It just made me realize that Ruth Bader Ginsburg is totally my hero.

I'm volunteering this Sunday for Planned Parenthood at the county fair. Though most of our county is populated by pro-choice liberals, I'm sure I'll encounter those who disagree, and this is a great question to have up my sleeve.

Rock, read post #6. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. Yeesh.

Sorry Will, I was writing my reply while you posted that. I've edited my post, but still don't understand why you posted that in the first place.

Oh man, pwned. That was GREAT.

ah, should have posted that.

that meant to me that was your "answer" that was ready and not what you expected.

still don't want to live in your world.

I think there's a bias. I mean, how many people did this guy interview? They only showed like, seven people. How many people were actually at the protest?

Obviously, if he would've shown all the interviews, at least one person would have a well thought out answer.

Shit though. I think if you're so supportive about something, you should be able to back it up somehow. Bottom line, just because you make something illegal, doesn't mean that people will stop doing it. *takes a bong hit*

And on the other hand, if you make it legal, yeah, alright, it means that society sanctions it. But that doesn't mean you HAVE TO get an abortion. It means you have a choice.
That's what freedom is all about.
What's ironic, is that the town is called Libertyville.

sadistik, I was thinking the same thing about the town's name! Hahaha, the irony!

This makes me giggle like an idiot... especially the ones who've been doing it for years and years... and never thought about what a punishment would be for it, were they to get their way.

"I'm not prepared to answer questions" - because you're a mindless parrot? Yeah, that sounds about right.

"I'm here because God's called me here"... oh... lovely.

sadistikdreams, it's possible that he left people out, but 1) it's true that this isn't a question people normally consider, so I'm not really surprised by the reactions he got and 2) I thinks it's quite possible he didn't get any different responses from others. Not every protest is going to be a massive gathering, and I find it very believable that there may have only been a total of, say, 14 people protesting that day.

While you are more than likely correct, we'll probably never know for certain.

Puts me in mind of Jay Leno's "Jaywalking", where he interviews absolute idiots, total dolts and complete morons. One likes to think that he had to interview tens of dozens of people before he found one that thinks that WWII was fought to gain our independence from the British.

Stephen King's Insomnia makes a brilliant use of the blind stupidity of the people on both sides of the issue. Not to give too much away, but ancient and evil forces in the story need an excuse to get people in a particular town to go at each other's throats and they (naturally) throw the abortion debate in their midst. It works perfectly because none of them can really intelligently answer why they're so violently stoked about the issue. They just are. And none of them can answer even the simplest questions about it.


/crap, there goes warrrreagl with another senseless Stephen King plug

I don't get it. This is an easy question to answer.

If you are to claim abortion is murder, then the punishments for abortion should follow accordingly.

What was so hard about that?

On another note, why is abortion considered a religious issue? I am very religious but my standpoint on abortion does not derive from religion (maybe Buddhism if anything).

jorgelito: it's difficult to answer because most people who are against abortion don't really believe it is the same as murdering any other person, otherwise it would be a very easy question to answer. Then there's also the political aspect of the issue. They fully recognize how much more difficulty they would have gaining support if they claimed any woman who goes through with an abortion (after they're made illegal) should be considered a murderer and punished accordingly (which could very easily mean life in prison, since I don't see how abortion in that instance can be considered anything other than premeditated murder).

I would assume that many see it as premeditated infanticide. That could even get the death penalty in some places.

That's the logical response. The thing is... for most people, actually punishing the woman is quite distasteful. Or at the very least, they never considered it until the question was asked.

However, now that this is in the news, be prepared for a well-rehearsed talking point on it to start circulating. :rolleyes: