AGP vs PCI Express? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

todd · 01-01-2005, 01:25 PM

I have a little extra cash and looking to build a new system. I'm wanting to get the best system I can that will last me a while before I need to upgrade. I was looking at this CPU/mobo combo (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...-240418&ps=ho2), and thought it looked like a really good deal. I then noticed the mobo doesn't have a AGP slot. Instead, it has two PCI Express slots, recommending the use of two 6600gts. I looked up the 6600gt, and found it is available in both AGP and PCI Express.

What i'm wondering is what exactly is the differance? Which is better? Dual PCI Express, or a single AGP? I'd never heard of PCI Express video cards untill now.

I was wanting to get the Radeon x800 Pro 256mb video card, but thats AGP. Would I be better off finding a differant mobo that supports AGP, or this one and get the PCI Express cards? Really the only thing that attracted me to this combo set was that 64 bit processor. I probably don't NEED a 64 bit, but I have the cash and thought it'd be good for bragging rights

I also like combo sets like this because I have a hard time matching up a processor and mobo.

bubbagump · 01-01-2005, 01:32 PM

That motherboard supports SLI, which allows you to use 2 video cards at once, increasing performance. PCI-E is the future, and it does offer more bandwidth when compared to AGP. If you want to use SLI, you will need to pay for 2 video cards. The x800Pro comes in a PCI-E variant as well, so you could just pop one of them in there. You don't need to use both PCI-E slots. PCI-E is meant for expansion cards in general, while AGP is video only.

todd · 01-01-2005, 01:46 PM

Thanks for the response, bubbagump. It's clearer to me now. I'm also glad to hear the x800Pro comes in PCI-E as well.

So if I'm looking to get the best-of-the-best, I should definitly go for the PCI-E? Right now all I'll be able to afford is one x800Pro, but eventually I could add a second x800Pro (or something better) in there and get twice the performance?

That sounds great.

omega2K4 · 01-01-2005, 02:56 PM

SLI is only compatible with NVIDIA's PCI-Express cards right now, but I've heard that ATI is working on something similar.

cyrnel · 01-01-2005, 03:43 PM

Todd, this is a good technology primer for PC bus architecture and the effects of PCIe (p.k.a. 3GIO).

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...are/pcie.ars/1

If you're already familiar with the basics jump to page 4.

Lasereth · 01-02-2005, 08:30 AM

Theoretically, PCI-E has a huge advantage over AGP in terms of technology. As of now, PCI-E technology isn't helping out videocards much at all. It will in the future, but right now, AGP videocards perform just as well. You could buy an AGP or PCI-E motherboard and be fine. And I suggest the GeForce 6800 GT over the X800 Pro if you're gonna go the AGP route.

-Lasereth

whocarz · 01-02-2005, 04:18 PM

I hear that the x800 XL is a good card that beats out the 6800 Ultra, and it's only 300 dollars.

jonjon42 · 01-02-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whocarz

I hear that the x800 XL is a good card that beats out the 6800 Ultra, and it's only 300 dollars.

I don't believe it does... it is comparable to the 6800gt and the gt still beats it on a game by game basis...right now if you got pci-e go nvidia because the sli potential is already their....ATI does not have anything yet. (btw ATI also sucks if you ever wish to put linux on your box...but that's another story)

Lasereth · 01-02-2005, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whocarz

I hear that the x800 XL is a good card that beats out the 6800 Ultra, and it's only 300 dollars.

That's a joke. The X800 XL is a great deal at $300 but it rarely reaches 6800 GT levels. Like I said, it's a hell of a deal since it's about 80% as powerful as the 6800 GT but it's nowhere near a 6800 Ultra.

-Lasereth

whocarz · 01-05-2005, 10:07 AM

Well, I'm just relying on what this website says: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...e=expert&pid=3

I'm not an expert on the topic, and I definately don't have the funds or the desire to test them out, just passing along what I read.

NeoSparky · 01-05-2005, 01:03 PM

the x800XL out performs that of the x800 and the 6800's. It's not out as of yet and it's only available in PCI-E form. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2299

I just bought an x800pro.. this card rules. I've been a loyal nvidia customer ever since the 3dfx takeover. I was hoping and hoping they'd bring glide back but they never did.

I am running HL2 at 1600x1200 with AA at 4x and AF at 8x and I get anywhere from 30-60fps and the game looks amazing. I bought it for 360 bucks and it was well worth the price. the 6800 was more expensive.

I was going to go the PCI-E route except until the CPU's double or tripple in speed SLI does me no good. http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...123/index.html

Lasereth · 01-05-2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whocarz

Well, I'm just relying on what this website says: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...e=expert&pid=3

I'm not an expert on the topic, and I definately don't have the funds or the desire to test them out, just passing along what I read.

The article you linked is comparing the new X850 XT models, not the X800 XL. Of course the X850 XT can beat out the 6800 Ultra...it's supposed to.

On the second page, the X800 XL card that you're talking about is compared to the 6800 GT. They're pretty close, just like I said. I still remain correct, however -- the X800 XL is nothing compared to the 6800 Ultra. It's not supposed to be at $300.

-Lasereth

NeoSparky · 01-05-2005, 09:58 PM

oh, I misread that earier. yeah the ultra will beat out the x800 xl, and the x800 pro. but there not even in the same class really.. the ultra would compare to the xt series.

but for the dollar/fps i'd go with either the x800xl if i were on pci-e or the x800 pro for agp. I wouldnt spend 500-600 bucks on an ultra for an extra 10-15 fps tops on on of the xt's or ultra's. i'm running hl2 with full settings at 1600x1200 and i get anywhere from 30-60 fps depending on where i'm at in a given map. it looks amazing.

whocarz · 01-07-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

The article you linked is comparing the new X850 XT models, not the X800 XL. Of course the X850 XT can beat out the 6800 Ultra...it's supposed to.

On the second page, the X800 XL card that you're talking about is compared to the 6800 GT. They're pretty close, just like I said. I still remain correct, however -- the X800 XL is nothing compared to the 6800 Ultra. It's not supposed to be at $300.

-Lasereth

If you say so. I had formed my opinion based on the conclusion the reviewer made at the end of the article:

Quote:

If ever there was a sleeper in the GPU world, this would be it. On paper, the X800 XL didn't look very exciting, and getting the card in my hands didn't give me butterflies. But after testing it for a couple of days, it's impossible to not be impressed.

With a sticker price set at $299 according to ATI yesterday afternoon, the X800 XL is out performing the $399 6800 GT and in some cases is rivaling the performance of the 6800 Ultra card that costs $499. How can you not be excited about that? The NVIDIA 6600GT that is priced at $250 is going to have to be very careful where it leaves itself as the X800 XL will easily stomp on it, for only $50 more.

The question that remains though is the all important issue of availability. The 6600GT and 6800GT are for sale all over the place; if the X800 XL doesn't show up soon, then that leaves the window wide open for NVIDIA. If the X800 XL floods the channel soon, I think you'll either see the prices on the NVIDIA cards falling and/or an over supply of their cards in the market. Only time will tell, and hopefully in the matter of weeks.

I'm not sure who's word I should take, his or yours. He, however, gets extra points because we have the same first name.

arch13 · 01-07-2005, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whocarz

I hear that the x800 XL is a good card that beats out the 6800 Ultra, and it's only 300 dollars.

Just as a side note, 5 years ago the idea that a video card was only $300.00 woud have made me faint. No wait it still does.....

01-01-2005, 01:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
todd Addict Location: Chicago	AGP vs PCI Express? I have a little extra cash and looking to build a new system. I'm wanting to get the best system I can that will last me a while before I need to upgrade. I was looking at this CPU/mobo combo (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...-240418&ps=ho2), and thought it looked like a really good deal. I then noticed the mobo doesn't have a AGP slot. Instead, it has two PCI Express slots, recommending the use of two 6600gts. I looked up the 6600gt, and found it is available in both AGP and PCI Express. What i'm wondering is what exactly is the differance? Which is better? Dual PCI Express, or a single AGP? I'd never heard of PCI Express video cards untill now. I was wanting to get the Radeon x800 Pro 256mb video card, but thats AGP. Would I be better off finding a differant mobo that supports AGP, or this one and get the PCI Express cards? Really the only thing that attracted me to this combo set was that 64 bit processor. I probably don't NEED a 64 bit, but I have the cash and thought it'd be good for bragging rights I also like combo sets like this because I have a hard time matching up a processor and mobo. Last edited by todd; 01-01-2005 at 01:27 PM..

01-01-2005, 01:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
bubbagump Tilted	That motherboard supports SLI, which allows you to use 2 video cards at once, increasing performance. PCI-E is the future, and it does offer more bandwidth when compared to AGP. If you want to use SLI, you will need to pay for 2 video cards. The x800Pro comes in a PCI-E variant as well, so you could just pop one of them in there. You don't need to use both PCI-E slots. PCI-E is meant for expansion cards in general, while AGP is video only. __________________ s3x p1z

01-01-2005, 02:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
omega2K4 Natalie Portman is sexy. Location: The Outer Rim	SLI is only compatible with NVIDIA's PCI-Express cards right now, but I've heard that ATI is working on something similar. __________________ "While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

01-02-2005, 08:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Theoretically, PCI-E has a huge advantage over AGP in terms of technology. As of now, PCI-E technology isn't helping out videocards much at all. It will in the future, but right now, AGP videocards perform just as well. You could buy an AGP or PCI-E motherboard and be fine. And I suggest the GeForce 6800 GT over the X800 Pro if you're gonna go the AGP route. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

01-02-2005, 04:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	I hear that the x800 XL is a good card that beats out the 6800 Ultra, and it's only 300 dollars. __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

01-01-2005, 01:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
todd Addict Location: Chicago	Thanks for the response, bubbagump. It's clearer to me now. I'm also glad to hear the x800Pro comes in PCI-E as well. So if I'm looking to get the best-of-the-best, I should definitly go for the PCI-E? Right now all I'll be able to afford is one x800Pro, but eventually I could add a second x800Pro (or something better) in there and get twice the performance? That sounds great.

01-01-2005, 03:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Todd, this is a good technology primer for PC bus architecture and the effects of PCIe (p.k.a. 3GIO). http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...are/pcie.ars/1 If you're already familiar with the basics jump to page 4.

01-05-2005, 10:07 AM	#10 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	Well, I'm just relying on what this website says: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...e=expert&pid=3 I'm not an expert on the topic, and I definately don't have the funds or the desire to test them out, just passing along what I read. __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

01-05-2005, 01:03 PM	#11 (permalink)
NeoSparky Crazy	the x800XL out performs that of the x800 and the 6800's. It's not out as of yet and it's only available in PCI-E form. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2299 I just bought an x800pro.. this card rules. I've been a loyal nvidia customer ever since the 3dfx takeover. I was hoping and hoping they'd bring glide back but they never did. I am running HL2 at 1600x1200 with AA at 4x and AF at 8x and I get anywhere from 30-60fps and the game looks amazing. I bought it for 360 bucks and it was well worth the price. the 6800 was more expensive. I was going to go the PCI-E route except until the CPU's double or tripple in speed SLI does me no good. http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...123/index.html

01-05-2005, 09:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
NeoSparky Crazy	oh, I misread that earier. yeah the ultra will beat out the x800 xl, and the x800 pro. but there not even in the same class really.. the ultra would compare to the xt series. but for the dollar/fps i'd go with either the x800xl if i were on pci-e or the x800 pro for agp. I wouldnt spend 500-600 bucks on an ultra for an extra 10-15 fps tops on on of the xt's or ultra's. i'm running hl2 with full settings at 1600x1200 and i get anywhere from 30-60 fps depending on where i'm at in a given map. it looks amazing.