Mantus

I was trying to figure out why men's attempts romance often fail. Especially post "lust" phase of a relationship.

The common advice is to wine, dine and treat your girl well. Why doesn't this always work?

What happens is that the woman sees every attempt at romance as a desperate bid for sex. What's worse is that as sex becomes less and less frequent; every attempt at romance DOES become a desperate bid for sex.

Now it seems to me that some men are ashamed of thier sex drive. As such they end up trying to convince themselves that their amorous actions are not driven by thier lust. Which is an outright lie, their actions ARE driven by lust.

Men tend to take sex at face value, women tend to view sex and relationships emotionaly. This means that men are easilly stimulated by the situation itself, it's why we are always ready to go, while women are stimulated by the emotions they are feeling, so a sexual situation that doesnt have the right emotional conotations won't turn a girl on. It also means that women look for emotional values in everything. A poem, dinner or a hug are all just things. A woman needs to connect them with her ideal aroused emotional state in order for them to have an impact. A poem might show sensitivity, a dinner will show the ability to provide and a hug may make her feel safe and cared for. If all these feelings combined will make her feel like she is with the right man then instincts kick in.

Where does all this leads? It shows us that some men are shooting blindfolded hopping to strike the right target. They assume that simply following a script given to them by a friend or some magazine will lead them down the right avenues. And this is where dishonesty with with oneself spawns. The best a woman will do after seeing such attempts is give a guy bitersweet reward sex. Which fucks guys up even more. They want sex, and they are aware that certain actions may leed them there but they don't know exactly how these actions connect to the final result. So they try to improve on these actions individually without realizing their place in the grand sheme of things. And what can be more pure then a selfless action? Yet this is a direct contradiction of one's goals. A selfless hug most likely won't touch on any feelings that are related to her state of arousal. Some men forget this. The goal is to excite her, to meet her set of criteria that will make her want you.

In order for this to happen, every action needs to strike a chord with her ideal emotional state. How do you know what that is? Ask her. Not with questions like: what do you like? Ask her how she want's to feel. Remember women are emotional creatures. So if her answer does not describe a state of mind you have to either explicate it from her or take an intuitive guess.

For example if you ask a woman what kind of a man she likes she may say: "tall, dark and handsome". That doesnt necessarily mean a goodlooking black basketball player. What she might actually be saying is that she want's to feel safe (tall), she wants a thrill or to feel naughty (dark) and she want's to be able to show her guy off (handsome). Now that you know what emotional states she desires you can fulfil them without having to be in the NBA. You can exercise to build muscle or simply make an effort to keep her close in public places or dangerous areas. Something as simple as putting an arm around her might be enough to make her feel safe. You can cross the boundaries of acceptable affectionate behaviour in public places. Don't just kiss her in the middle of a reception, make it daring, pull her asside, grab hold of her, wait for her to resist a little. Experiment, there are ALLOT of boundaries to be crossed giving her that little thrill. Finally, something as simple as making yourself look half way decent so she can take you out to fancy outings may fulfil her need for a guy she can show off. These are just examples, every girl is differnt and it's up to you to find out exactly what she wants. By doing so, you are already satisfying a universal need - to be understood, to feel a bond.

Unlike our attempts at "pure/selfless" gifts and actions this is as honest as it gets. Here a man is making an effort to fulfil his partners and his own desires. Ironically, the only way to achieve this is a guy to be true to himself and do it in the name of sex.




Wow you made it all the way down here. Thank you for reading. Now after all that time what's a minute more to write a responce?

hrandani

My take is that the novelty wore off and there wasn't anything left for at least one party.

I think you might be looking too deeply into this.

Martian

I have a fundamental disagreement with that. The thing is, with the right girl it's not about sex. I love sex and it's great, but if I were to find out that for some reason I can never have sex with my current girlfriend again I wouldn't leave her over it. That's not downplaying the importance of sex. It is a need that has to be filled. It isn't the be all and end all of a relationship.

The snag that a lot of guys hit is in admitting that men have emotional needs to. Sometimes I need to feel safe. I need to feel wanted. I have all the same emotional needs as her and I can't get that fulfillment from just anyone. That is to me more important than sex. I survived until I was 17 without sex, if I had to go the rest of my life without sex to fulfill those emotional needs I would.

A healthy relationship is not give and take. It's not a fair exchange. ratbastid touts this and I agree fully. It's giving and acceptance. I give her everything and I accept what she gives me. My emotional fulfillment comes from accepting what she's willing to give and from giving her everything I have. The best possible situation is when both parties give each other 100% but it's not an equal exchange at all and it can't be. It's not possible to have a successful relationship by asking 'what's in it for me', it just doesn't work.

Again, that's not to say that sex isn't important, because it is. If in the above example we could never have sex again, we'd have to figure out an alternate way of doing things; there'd have to be some fulfillment, whether I jerk off to porn or whether she does something else to get me there. It has to be there and she has to be involved at some level. The opposite is also true; she has those same needs and if I wasn't able to fulfill them through sex we'd have to talk about it and figure something else out.

Men and women are not so far different as everyone seems to think. We have the same physical, mental and emotional requirements and we all need them filled. The sooner a person realizes that the better off they are when it comes to having a healthy relationship.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

bubonico

It's sounds like you've got a script to satisfy women Mantis. I think I'd prefer to play it by ear, or just go with the flow.

With all the hype in our society about Women needing to have emotional fullfillment and men needing to provide that, I have began to think that I was a bit of an oddball for needing the same emotional fullfillment that women supposedly need. Thanks for makin me feel a little better about that Martian.

__________________
"People sleep peacably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" -George Orwell

tecoyah

I have found the every other rule quite handy....if there is an issue with romance.

Be romantic....but, dont give her sex half the time....it works, and she knows you are not showing affection just to get laid. Believe it or not...many women want sex as much as you do, and they DO notice when you dont try to get it.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

d*d

Women want to feel safe, wanted and loved - but sometimes, they just want to get laid.
We're not that different.

If you are using romantic cliches to get sex then, if taken at face value, it will lead to confusion over motives. Women are used to Men being duplicitous which is why they are wary of such obvious unimaginatove romantic gestures. Be honest in your intentions and you'll still get laid

nightstuff

Why this approach doesnt work is that it CAN easily lead to boredom for your girl, and to the relationships ultimate demise. Where is the logic in this thinking you ask? Allow me to offer an analogy:

Lets say that your mutual goal for the day is to experience an exciting car ride. Using an approach based on the "common advice", you then focus all your efforts on her comfort and desire, wanting to make sure SHE has the most enjoyment. You therfore make sure her seat is extra comfy, maybe with heating and extra padding. You play her favorite music and avoid going too fast over the bumps, cause she hates that. You even let her decide where to go and when to take pit stops.

Finally everthing is just how it should be for her, and so mid-way down the road you look over to guage her enjoyment and what do you see? She's asleep, indulging in the comfort of it all. Whats the man to think?

"I did everthing to satisfy her, yet she only fell asleep. What an ungrateful bitch"
"Well, sleeping is a good thing...after all she deserves that, right?"
"Next time i'll drive like a maniac, that will show her"

But who's fault is this really? YOURS, because you forgot that the whole reason for the drive was not her comfort, but to experience an exciting car rid.

Don't focus all your energy on wining, dining, and treating your girl well. Focus it on having a good time...don't forget that the point isnt to make things as good for her as possible, but to have fun. Else you only have yourself to blame when you look over and she's asleep.