Good sportmanship - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Kadath · 12-09-2003, 09:22 PM

This was brought to my attention by a pair of back-to-back chess matches, but it happens with video games too.
I'm better than many of my friends at certain games. For the purposes of this, I'll just discuss the chess match. My roommate and I are on uncertain terms right now. We get along to a certain extent, but we also get on each other's nerves. Recently, we started playing chess. Tonight we played the second and third game. I have won all three, each time because he has failed to defend his queen adequately. Two of the games have been back and forth; the last was sort of a rout, to the point where he resigned. I had sacrificed a bishop to take a bishop, a rook, and a knight, and then trapped his queen. I have been thinking about throwing the next game so he doesn't get too upset. I am fiercely competitive, to my detriment, and the only reason I can brook losing on purpose is that I'm up on him 3-0 at this point. Unfortunately, I had decided to play the third game somewhat recklessly, as an experiment and told myself if I lost, that would work out okay, which it did not. I don't want to insult him by not playing up to my best, and I know one only improves by playing real games, not meatballs. However, he got pretty frustrated by the end of the third game and I don't want to stop playing. It's been a while since I've had someone to play with aside from my girlfriend, and I taught her, so you can imagine how those matches go. So, to the point. Is it sportsmanlike to throw a match in order to rally your opponent's spirits and encourage further competition, rather than defeat him until his desire to compete is gone? And lest you think me arrogant, I can see us being on the same level in a few more matches, he's just rusty and more impetuous in the later game; his opening game is much stronger than mine. I want even matches almost as much as I want to win.

grumpyolddude · 12-09-2003, 10:20 PM

If you truly believe that he is capable of better than he's shown, then don't do it. He won't get his chops back that way, and if he suspects that you are taking a dive, your current uncertain relationship will definitely go sour. I know I'd be pissed and offended.

IDEA: Tell him your observations about his game.... tactfully. Start out by complimenting his strong openings. If you can recall the position from one of your previous games, set it up on the board and start a dialog about your strategies. Do it as a sharing of ideas, rather than a lecture, over a couple of your favorite beverages. If your suspicions about his game are correct, he just needs to refocus his thinking a little and you'll get the competitive games you're looking for.

IDEA 2: Start playing for beers, or groceries, and clean his clock for a few weeks. He'll either sharpen up or tank out altogether ;^) (just a joke).

guthmund · 12-11-2003, 10:41 PM

It depends on what kind of guy your roommate is. You can try the "discussion tactic" as long as the attempt isn't ham handed and obvious. It might work. And you can drag things out and make the outcome closer than what it could have been, but never throw a game. He'll either be so obnoxious you'll want to bean him with something, or he'll be so offended he'll never play. Either way you lose.

My ex-brother-in-law and I used to play NFL Fever a lot when it first came out. He was a pretty competitive guy. I beat him consistently; I felt sorry for him, so, I threw one game. The guy talked trash for a week. Even after I beat him by 70+ points he still talked about it. "You may have one that one, but I got you good.....remember???" Yeah, stupid. One win out of 52 does not a game guru make. Sorry, got a little off track there....

You know your roommate better than us, so feel him out. Just remember to use some tact and try not to be condescending.

Redjake · 12-12-2003, 08:01 AM

This sounds immature but there is something that pisses me off with people who can't accept the fact that they suck. They always make up excuses and get SERIOUSLY pissed at you. So I tell them, dead seriously, if you can't take the heat, stay the hell out of the kitchen. Who's next.

hulk · 12-12-2003, 08:19 AM

A bit on the opposite, my gaming friend can not handle not dominating us. Seriously, he bought Soul Calibre 2 and enjoyed it enough, until I started to get a feel for it. He went from beating me nearly every match to us having a 1 to 1 win ratio. He was so pissed off he traded the game in the next day. Some people are just like that =S

Kadath · 12-12-2003, 02:58 PM

Thanks for responding, everybody. After I put that up, we played two back to back games. I won the first, he the second. The only other game we've had time to play since then was by far the best we've had. I mentioned to him that he's a little aggressive with his queen and that I need to learn from his opening game, and so we're okay. I'm happy being "up" 5-1, but the last two games have been neck and neck, and so I'm where I want to be.

seretogis · 12-12-2003, 04:11 PM

I suggest playing "Strip Chess" -- that'll give him some motivation to win.

Kadath · 12-15-2003, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
I suggest playing "Strip Chess" -- that'll give him some motivation to win.

Haha! Assuming we'd be playing an item of clothing per piece taken, I think we'd see a marked increase in resignations just as we got down to boxers.

Silvy · 12-15-2003, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
Haha! Assuming we'd be playing an item of clothing per piece taken, I think we'd see a marked increase in resignations just as we got down to boxers.

LOL! I can certainly see that happening!

Good to hear things are working out, and you're playing on a challenging level. I get the feeling you didn't need to take a dive on that one game?
I hope the games make your relationship less uncertain.

archer2371 · 12-15-2003, 08:05 PM

I agree with grumpyolddude's first idea, make him your pupil show him how you play the game, or show him how to make himself better. That way he comes up to your level and you don't have to feel bad about throwing the match.

12-09-2003, 09:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Good sportmanship This was brought to my attention by a pair of back-to-back chess matches, but it happens with video games too. I'm better than many of my friends at certain games. For the purposes of this, I'll just discuss the chess match. My roommate and I are on uncertain terms right now. We get along to a certain extent, but we also get on each other's nerves. Recently, we started playing chess. Tonight we played the second and third game. I have won all three, each time because he has failed to defend his queen adequately. Two of the games have been back and forth; the last was sort of a rout, to the point where he resigned. I had sacrificed a bishop to take a bishop, a rook, and a knight, and then trapped his queen. I have been thinking about throwing the next game so he doesn't get too upset. I am fiercely competitive, to my detriment, and the only reason I can brook losing on purpose is that I'm up on him 3-0 at this point. Unfortunately, I had decided to play the third game somewhat recklessly, as an experiment and told myself if I lost, that would work out okay, which it did not. I don't want to insult him by not playing up to my best, and I know one only improves by playing real games, not meatballs. However, he got pretty frustrated by the end of the third game and I don't want to stop playing. It's been a while since I've had someone to play with aside from my girlfriend, and I taught her, so you can imagine how those matches go. So, to the point. Is it sportsmanlike to throw a match in order to rally your opponent's spirits and encourage further competition, rather than defeat him until his desire to compete is gone? And lest you think me arrogant, I can see us being on the same level in a few more matches, he's just rusty and more impetuous in the later game; his opening game is much stronger than mine. I want even matches almost as much as I want to win. __________________ it's quiet in here

12-09-2003, 10:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	If you truly believe that he is capable of better than he's shown, then don't do it. He won't get his chops back that way, and if he suspects that you are taking a dive, your current uncertain relationship will definitely go sour. I know I'd be pissed and offended. IDEA: Tell him your observations about his game.... tactfully. Start out by complimenting his strong openings. If you can recall the position from one of your previous games, set it up on the board and start a dialog about your strategies. Do it as a sharing of ideas, rather than a lecture, over a couple of your favorite beverages. If your suspicions about his game are correct, he just needs to refocus his thinking a little and you'll get the competitive games you're looking for. IDEA 2: Start playing for beers, or groceries, and clean his clock for a few weeks. He'll either sharpen up or tank out altogether ;^) (just a joke). __________________ "Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

12-11-2003, 10:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	It depends on what kind of guy your roommate is. You can try the "discussion tactic" as long as the attempt isn't ham handed and obvious. It might work. And you can drag things out and make the outcome closer than what it could have been, but never throw a game. He'll either be so obnoxious you'll want to bean him with something, or he'll be so offended he'll never play. Either way you lose. My ex-brother-in-law and I used to play NFL Fever a lot when it first came out. He was a pretty competitive guy. I beat him consistently; I felt sorry for him, so, I threw one game. The guy talked trash for a week. Even after I beat him by 70+ points he still talked about it. "You may have one that one, but I got you good.....remember???" Yeah, stupid. One win out of 52 does not a game guru make. Sorry, got a little off track there.... You know your roommate better than us, so feel him out. Just remember to use some tact and try not to be condescending. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

12-12-2003, 08:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
Redjake I'm a family man - I run a family business. Location: Wilson, NC	This sounds immature but there is something that pisses me off with people who can't accept the fact that they suck. They always make up excuses and get SERIOUSLY pissed at you. So I tell them, dead seriously, if you can't take the heat, stay the hell out of the kitchen. Who's next. __________________ Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

12-12-2003, 08:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	A bit on the opposite, my gaming friend can not handle not dominating us. Seriously, he bought Soul Calibre 2 and enjoyed it enough, until I started to get a feel for it. He went from beating me nearly every match to us having a 1 to 1 win ratio. He was so pissed off he traded the game in the next day. Some people are just like that =S __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

12-12-2003, 02:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Thanks for responding, everybody. After I put that up, we played two back to back games. I won the first, he the second. The only other game we've had time to play since then was by far the best we've had. I mentioned to him that he's a little aggressive with his queen and that I need to learn from his opening game, and so we're okay. I'm happy being "up" 5-1, but the last two games have been neck and neck, and so I'm where I want to be. __________________ it's quiet in here

12-12-2003, 04:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	I suggest playing "Strip Chess" -- that'll give him some motivation to win. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

12-15-2003, 08:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	I agree with grumpyolddude's first idea, make him your pupil show him how you play the game, or show him how to make himself better. That way he comes up to your level and you don't have to feel bad about throwing the match. __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."