KnifeMissile

There have been many times on this board where I read a post (often against my better judgement) and get so offended by its sheer ignorance and guile (a deadly combination) that I want to post a really seething response to let these people know just how stupid and contemptable they are.

In the past, I have done so.

These days, I don't bother. In the past, these "debates," if they can be called that, rarely continued in a civil manner. Perhaps more importantly, they never really listened to what I said. They would usually ignore the content of my post and attack points I didn't make. Whenever I would point this out in another response, they would simply do it again. So, I guess I have now given up. People may think what they will and, while I can't say that I don't care, I can say that I don't care to change their mind. People are idiots and I accept that.

If you look at my post history you will see that, as a result, I don't post nearly as much as I used to. The downside is that I have become a less active member of this board. On the upside, I no longer feed the flames of volatile threads. Is this a good trade off? I don't know but it's the path I seem to be taking.

So, my question is this: has anyone else found themselves in my position?

ForgottenKnight

Quality over quanity. I generally don't post in the politics board because of reasons like that. When I read a thread that's a "debate" I sometimes don't bother posting because I know it's not worth entering the fight that it has become. Once it gets to where nobody's changing their minds or debating based on the opposing argument's points, then I often quit reading/scanning the thread and move on. I tend to like avoiding getting mixed up in arguments that I don't want to be involved in.

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"People say I'm strange, does that make me a stranger?"

bernadette

if you spend any amount of time on any board, you eventually figure out where your comfort zone is.

and unless it's a total flames-ville kinda board (why anyone would want to be there is another question), you learn to bite your tongue sometimes.
for me, it's not worth the outcome to engage in certain disputes.

been there, done that. tired. my time is valuable.

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fhqwhgads

Yes.

Many times I have actually typed out a reply, but stopped myself before submitting it. Sometimes you just get a feeling that your post will probably start an arguement rather than be taken as an alternative viewpoint. My goal isn't to go around and start multiple arguments, so sometimes it's just simpler to remain silent...

ShaniFaye

Yes I do...I pretty much stay out of the political thread and most discussions dealing with philosophy for this reason...I have a very hard time holding my tongue when someone tries to tell me my opinion on something is ignorant or stupid.

I realize not every one feels the same way I do about things but I have never thought them ignorant or stupid because they dont subscribe to my way of thinking.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

tecoyah

Unfortunately.....I also find myself ignoring most threads after reading the responses. Even if it is a subject I wish to contribute to, I often just lurk on the thread and watch....if it looks to be progressing well, I will then give my 2cents.
But yeah....politics has recently taken a turn for the worst.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Rubyee

I openly admit that I do not know thing 1 about politics, so therefore I take the high road and never enter it. From what I hear, not enough people do that- not just here but everywhere.

If you don't know enough about a topic, steer clear.

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You don't know from fun.

Xothan

Most of the time, by the time I read the post, and all the replies, I find that someone else has either said something similar to what I would say, or someone has gotten the thread locked...

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Xothan

AIM - icarlson75

Blackthorn

I come here for the fun side of TFP and while occasionally on the sports board I'll throw a jab at the Cleveland peeps I definitely do that all in good fun. If you want trouble and strife you probably don't have to look too far to find it in your real time life. I like the lighter side of this place and enjoy the funny stuff that people post or the nice imagery on the TB. (bobby aka gramps...nicely done over there btw ).

Two quotes come to mind about some of the more heated debates here:

1) Trying to teach a pig to dance is useless. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

2) Some people will just never let facts get in the way of their opinions.

I think the bottom line for me is that I spend a lot of time on a daily basis in spirited debate over issues both internal to my business and externally with my clients. I come here for some "fun" diversion from the stress of the day and simply enjoy this place for it's lighter side. to TFP for being a good place to play.

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What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?

lurkette

It depends on 1. how strongly I feel about the subject, and 2. how likely I think my input is to make a difference to either the poster of the offensive material, or to the discourse in general. Usually, if I get a sinking, tired feeling and I just can't bring myself to muster up the energy to counter the sheer stupidity, I just move on and trust that common sense will make my point for me.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

castex

It's funny, this concept of cyber face, and the perils of losing it. People, when slighted, act defensively. In real life, in the street, in bars and clubs and living rooms, one is much more likely to turn the other cheek, to let it go. When physical wellbeing or social standing are at stake people tend to behave with grace and discretion. When the odds are in one's favour - if, say, the person in question is backed up by 20 or so friends wielding clubs, darts, cues and glasses - backing-down seems to entail needless swallowing of pride and therefore the stakes are raised and raised some more.
The internet and forums such as this are similar in that there is little element of menace or compromise of social standing to keep thugs in check, and thuggery becomes attractive when there's nothing to lose but the esteem of a handful of internerds on the other side of the world. Consequently it is very often better to just not get involved.
Incidentally, I say forums such as this, but this is certainly one of the better milieu in terms of controlling errant egos. I actually believe this to be a healthy, functioning community; a very rare commodity in this particular medium.

yournamehere

If we all enter a debate with that attitude, it's pretty much doomed from the start, isn't it?

I'm not singling you out, <b>KnifeMissile</b> - a lot of other replies in this thread mirror the same sentiment, and I'll admit it's one of the reasons I hit the 'back' button instead of 'submit' on a lot of threads (and the reason I generally avoid <i>Tilted Politics</i>). I guess it's human nature to view someone who disagrees with us as less intelligent. After all, I remember reading somewhere that something like 85% of us feel that we're "more intelligent than the average person," which is, of course, a mathematical impossibility.

But we can't all be right, all the time, can we? That's why there are disagreements.

I agree, though, that when a discussion erodes into sarcasm and name calling, it's better to abandon a ship that has lost its course.

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If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

scrooloose

Yes

I do it on all the boards I go to. I get mad but it isnt worth the typing to try and argue with the said persons.

vermin

yournamehere worded it better than I could have, ditto.

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If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst.

SinisterMotives

I've avoided most political discussions lately myself. I find it more enjoyable to talk about common interests than to try to persuade someone who already has their mind made up about something.

KnifeMissile

Incidentally, if by "the average" you mean "the mean" (and most people do) then, mathematically speaking, it's easily possible for most people to be above the average.

Of course (I hope I may use this qualifier) I'm not saying that everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. It's interesting that you would interpret this from somewhere in my post. What was it that I said that made you think this? I was trying to make a comment about posts that are offensive becauseof their "sheer ignorance and guile." I was talking about dumb, flamebait posts, not conflicting, disagreeing posts. Most people resort to rhetoric and other specious arguments to make their "point" (if it may be called that) without any considering to what was said to them. Their only goal is winning the argument; a futile endeaver if I've ever seen one. Understanding is not a common goal, here at TFP. At least, not in some threads (and the infamous Tilted Politics is the worst)...

degrawj

oh man, i have done this MANY times. and i got reprimanded several times for doing so. now, i just don't read threads that i think will upset me, and i don't visit areas of TFP that i know will piss me off like tilted politics for example. but still, if i read a post that somebody made that is totally out of line, i will reply on it, making sure that it's not too offensive.

Rdr4evr

Thats because Bush is in office.

HeAtHeN

I tend to LURK around the boards. I am now going to post more but if a topic has not interest to me... I just skip it. I do sometimes post when something upsets me.... but usually its a troll just trying to get a rise out of someone.

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KellyC

Yes I do. But not on TFP, other boards I frequent that happens. I stop responding after I make my points about 2 or 3 times. Everything after that is ugly, and I just let it die. There's no need to add fuel to a burning flame.

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

raeanna74

Haha


Honestly I rarely go to the politics forum. I find the constant debate over any subject tedious. I generally like to lay out the facts in an orderly fashion, with all the positives on one side and the negatives on the other. Debate in the politics forum is far from that. I find it frustrating to debate in ANY forum when an important point or many points which I mention are ignored. If the subject means a lot to me I will continue posting on a subject but in general if the "other side" is ignoring my statements or acting immature after I've posted 3 times, then I will cease posting. There are some subjects here that I've learned engender just that kind of debate where the participates don't debate fairly or with an open mind. I stay completely away from those subjects because when I've put anything into a thread and it degenerates into a spit fight it inevitably leaves me fuming.

A debate that is profitable at least in helping me understand the "other side's" point of view even if I don't agree with it. I can often tell if it's going to be that kind of thread early on based on the original question and the first few posts.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

amonkie

If it is a subject where I am more knowledgeable than most (ie degree/career related), I may persist in hopes of sharing some information I have that may show others what information they don't have. Any other areas, like Lurkette said, it depends on how strongly I feel about the issue, and whether my time inputting into the thread is actually going to even enlighten.

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Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

Quadraton

Reminds me of a quote I once heard by Robin Williams;

"Think about how smart the average person is. Now realize that half the world is dumber than that."

=====

I generally try to keep my posts intelligent, but every once in a while, I break down and become the idiot poster. It usually comes about due to fatigue, boredom, frustration with my day, but thankfully it happens very rarely. I make no apologies, because everybody is allowed to slip every now and then. It's the people who consistently go out of their way to starting fights, and complaining about whatever that really annoy me.

When I started commenting on Fark, I used to absolutely thrash people for posting whiny comments. "I don't like the way this place is run", "How come I never get any articles posted?", "Why was this posted? My headline was funnier", "That article wasn't ironic. How come it has an Ironic tag?", and so on, and so on. It annoyed the Hell out of me. It just seemed so supremely arrogant of the poster to come into a community that was provided for free and complain about how it was being run. So I let him know how I felt.

That is, until one day I realized that by posting my venomous "Shut the Hell Up" comments, I was actually contributing to lowering to the quality of the discussion.

So, in the end, I discovered that it's a no win fight. There will always exist those who come into communities to complain, start shit, create turmoil, and these people will never go away. So why bother giving them the attention that they crave, and continuing to lower the quality of the discussion at the same time?

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"A witty saying proves nothing"
- Voltaire

MSD

I have passed posts on to be dealt with by other moderators because my involvement in the discussion left me in a position where I couldn't come up with anything to say that wouldn't have sent me from staff member to banned as soon as an admin saw it.

Around that time, I took a 3-week vacation from the politics board and found that my blood pressure was down an average of 10-15 points from the numbers I had when I was actively participating in and moderating the board. That kind of stuff was cracked down on, and we're back to the point where civil discussion is almost the norm.

I'll use this as an opportunity to say that if you find yourself unable to come up with a post that would contribut to putting a thread back on track, please report inflammatory or offensive posts and try to save the thread before it gets out of hand.

Strange Famous

I dont post in the politics forum, because the tone of it all is so conservative and to the right, I just dont see the point anymore. It isnt even that people disagree with me, most people there seem to think my actual opinions are an attempt to "flame" or whatever... so I just stay out of it all now.

I used to go to pravda.com to debate politics, but the anti semetic abuse I used to get there was so much even I didnt like it after a while!!!

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

meembo

I steer away from religion. Conversion is unlikely, and the discussion just seems to provoke insults and pointless debates about scientific proofs

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less I say, smarter I am

billege

Everyone's idea of offensive is different.
Keeping that in mind, when I see a post written by a moron, I close the tab and move on.

If I was dumb enough to dignify the post with a response, I'll just end up being picked apart sentance by sentance.

I don't even do that here anymore. Instead of reading the whole meaning of my post, and even considering it, the moron I was dumb enough to respond to, will just rebut my points. Never once would they think about what my points mean, just how they can be wrong.

That's so stupid, and requires so much effort to talk back to. It's just silly to debate stupidity.

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I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

mr sticky

Aptly put. I agree 100%.

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The sad thing is... as you get older you come to realize that you don't so much pilot your life, as you just try to hold on, in a screaming, defiant ball of white-knuckle anxious fury

roachboy

i post in the politics board because i have a pollyannna faith in the possibility of debate.
and because i am curious about how far you can push conservatives to explain their positions.
however, i do get frustrated and find at times my tone slips into sarcasm.
am trying to control that better.

also, it is interesting to be operating in citizen mode rather than in academic mode. it gets tedious if you only talk to academics.


as for responding to posts i think are stupid, it depends on the topic and the way in which i think the post is stupid.

basically, i am still exploring this community.
it is an interesting place--i am pleased that it exists.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Polyphobic

I skip out on debates related to politics and religion.
My reasons:
1) Online posts really tend to piss me off. The same is not said of face to face discussions I engage in regularly at work.
2) Political ideals rarely change in my experience. It's pointless to argue online with someone when both of you are stubbornd as hell
3) #2 goes for the same religion.

I just find it easier to discuss these topics face to face rather than risk a flame war. Several discussions in the past several years have led me to this conclusion.

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<--The great infidel-->

SinisterMotives

That's the biggest turn-off about political discussions for me. Many people don't think about what you wrote, try to understand the reasoning behind it, or consider its merits; they simply hit the reply button and spew the same old tired party line you've already heard from them a thousand times.

Rdr4evr

I need to start avoiding it, I keep getting edited.

pinkie

I try to avoid them at all cost. However, if the offensive post is directed toward me, I do the best I can to handle the situation with out perpetuating the dramatic onslaught of possible further insults. And then, some people are just beneath reasoning with, so why even bother, you know?

wonderwench

I enjoy political discussions and do not assume that people who hold different opinions than my own are stupid or malicious. Sadly, many others are not able to resist such attitudes.

sonikeko

I think constructive debate is a cornerstone of our lives. It lets people form and contribute their opinions. Whether it is about politics, culture, or day to day happenings in the WOrld, it is necessary for our species to relate. There are forms of debate though that have no place not only on this board, but anywhere in general. These debates are condescending and offensive, and only hurt the people trying to gain from them.

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"Adolescence is short, maturity is forever"

pinkie

Boy, no kidding... I've read some of the threads you've participated in on the political board, and you do stay cool. This is true.

pinkie

Yep, it's like taking a time machine back to high school.

ARTelevision

Well, our mods and admins don't have a choice. We both respond and deal with them - as best we can. The ones that a reasonable person would deem offensive do not stay around for very long. We appreciate your reporting them and we actively pursue their perpetrators.

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create evolution

SinisterMotives

"When in Rome...."

Seriously though, Wenchie has shown remarkable restraint since she's been on TFP, and I'm very proud of her.

pinkie

That only makes me feel safe. Sounds good to me.

SM, haha, hi.

And yes, she has.