Caffeine delivery systems. How long before caffeine becomes the next tobacco? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

SecretMethod70 · 06-08-2011, 12:47 PM

As a frequent caffeine user, I find these pretty enticing: Take a Sheet - The NEW Way to do ENERGY

As someone who would love to be more healthy and not rely on caffeine for energy, I find articles like this very interesting:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Sports/...ffeine-to-kids

Quote:

LeBron James in spotlight off-court, too. Is he selling caffeine to kids?

LeBron James and his Miami Heat will face the Dallas Mavericks in Game 4 of the NBA Finals Tuesday. Off the court, however, he is being challenged by pediatricians over his new caffeine-heavy energy product, Sheets Energy Strips.

----

As basketball star LeBron James tries to take a step closer to the championship that has so far eluded him in Game 4 of the NBA Finals Tuesday, his off-the-court activities are drawing the ire of a number of pediatricians nationwide.

James is a cofounder of Sheets Energy Strips – small strips infused with caffeine and other chemicals that, when placed on the tongue, purportedly boost energy and performance. In one ad, James claims the strip helps him practice and play at his best.

The strips, which became available this month, are part of a worrying trend, say nutritionists. The American Academy of Pediatrics last week released a study advising that children avoid energy drinks altogether and condemning the industry for marketing them to children.

Sheets strips are targeted to compete with energy drinks, with one of James's business partners, Warren Struhl, telling NPR that they are superior to energy drinks because they don’t have calories, “don’t require a pit stop,” and are flavored. And the ads clearly target children, critics say.

The result has been a storm of protest against a product that, according to cofounder Jesse Itzler, went through several iterations to ensure it would not result in positive drug tests for athletes.

“It is a terrible message to send children and adults alike that in order to get the best possible workout, Mr. James uses a cocktail of caffeine, a dependence-producing stimulant, and other substances that had to be cleared by the NFL policy against doping in sports,” says Andrea Barthwell, former president of the American Society of Addiction Medicine. “These instances where top tier athletes attempt to increase their performance using chemicals rather than hard work are at the root of doping in sports and linked to the chemical culture where we are always looking for something to do for us what we should do for ourselves.”

Others say more research is needed on the long-term effects of caffeine before a product like this should be marketed.

“We simply don’t know what the use of this drug does to a human body over time, especially younger bodies,” says John Higgins, director of exercise physiology at Memorial Hermann Sports Medicine Institute in Houston. “A majority of the studies examine what is the effect for today, or this week. The literature for what the effects are over years is very thin. That is what’s needed.”

The strips’ packaging carries an admonition saying that children under 12 should not use the product, which is supposed to provide caffeine comparable to one cup of coffee, plus a vitamin boost. But the marketing campaign undermines that message, some say.

“The question is really who are they going to be marketing and selling these strips to?” asks Elizabeth Dowdell, an associate professor of nursing at Villanova University in Pennsylvania. “Having a top sports star say it enhances his fabulous play sends a conflicted message and negates his great natural talent and hard work. Kids are really susceptible to appeals like that.”

The idea of energy strips is not without its supporters. Harris Lieberman, a psychologist with the Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine, says the Army has developed its own caffeinated gum, now included in some ration kits to help sleep-deprived soldiers maintain vigilance when they are exhausted.

But critics say the age limit should be 18 and are calling on James to take what they see as a more responsible position.

“I would fault him for not understanding the platform on which he stands,” says Dan Lebowitz, executive director of the Center for the Study of Sport in Society at Northeastern University in Boston. “And I call on him to be as responsible as he has been in other areas – in which he has been quite well behaved.”

The headline alone is intriguing to me. "Is he selling caffeine to kids?"

This question is being asked now? Does Coca-Cola not sell to kids? One could argue energy drinks are sold to kids as well. Lady Gaga featured the caffeinated drink "Neuro Sonic" in her music video for the song "Paparazzi."

But now, finally, we get "Sheets" by LeBron James and ask, "is he selling caffeine to kids?"

Could this be a turning point, as pediatricians also begin to speak out more vocally about the dangers of caffeine consumption during developmental years and more and more reports demonstrate that our society is chronically sleep-deprived? Could we one day see caffeine become an 18+ drug the way tobacco is?

I think the biggest impediment to that happening is the fact our reliance on caffeine stems from the cultural demands we place on ourselves. We are not sleep-deprived and reliant on caffeine simply because of the addiction, but rather because we attempt to be consistently productive without the need for rest. I don't think we'll see any real change in how we approach caffeine until we recognize a need to change how we approach our lives.

What do you think? Is LeBron James selling caffeine to kids? Is that OK? Do you have any interest in a product like Sheets? Do you see anything changing in terms of how society views caffeine consumption, by children or in general?

Ourcrazymodern? · 06-08-2011, 01:19 PM

When you say "intriguing", you must be joking. How much caffeine does it take to be a poison like nicotine? As a nicotine addict who also likes his coffee, I think this is a silly non-issue. Sorry.

Baraka_Guru · 06-08-2011, 01:23 PM

Western society is keen on their stimulants on one hand and depressants on the other. The caffeine/alcohol combo is not something legally available to kids, but sure enough they have caffeine. I personally think kids should not consume more than 100 mg of caffeine per day, as above that threshold, you can easily run into problems. The Government of Canada suggests intakes no more than 45 mg to 85 mg for kids, depending on age. Take that with a grain of salt, but remember that the federal government foots a lot of the bill for our health care system.

Caffeine is associated with energy, but it's a bit misleading. It's not energy; it gears up the adrenal system.

These sheet things have an image of fun-loving, productive, and creative people who use them to enjoy life. Because who doesn't want to be energetic?

But like you said, Smeth, we're sleep deprived and probably have a bit more anxiety than we need in our lives. We are too busy and don't know when to stop. This is probably why many adults drink alcohol. It's two gears on a geared-up lifestyle. Go and unwind.

Kids today are afraid of silence and can't sit still for just a minute without doing something. There's just too much going on and now we're injecting more caffeine into the equation.

I think it's terrible and it underscores a lot of the health issues we have as a society, both physically and mentally.

/rant

SecretMethod70 · 06-08-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern?

When you say "intriguing", you must be joking. How much caffeine does it take to be a poison like nicotine? As a nicotine addict who also likes his coffee, I think this is a silly non-issue. Sorry.

Intriguing that the question is being posed. It indicates an inherent acceptance that selling caffeine to kids is a bad thing.

Plan9 · 06-08-2011, 09:41 PM

God, I just had flashbacks to that awful Stay Alert gum.

...

Could it be... another Let's blame the product instead of the parents thread? Somebody get me a Four Loko.

I can see how this type of product would be awesome for truck drivers and GI Joes. I wish I had some here instead of Pit Bull.

Kids don't need to be popping it but whaddya gonna do? They shouldn't be smoking weed and having unsafe sex either, amiright?

I'm kinda surprised that this is even a topic here considering the general acceptance of licit (and illicit) substance use. Coffee YEAH.

Responsibility & Temptation: Because it's just easier to just take everything off the table than try to avoid some things.

...

You smart guys are onto something. The issue here is the ups and downs of modern life here in "Western Civilization."

I'd be curious to see what kind of market these products have in countries where they aren't torturing themselves for money (as much).

It seems to be uniquely American that working 80 hours is what it takes to be successful. And you've gotta fit in that damn pilates class.

Here in the US the groupthink on how we should live our lives is becoming more and more like that Smack My Bitch Up music video.

We work 12 hour days, we commute 3 hours each way, we're doing college and raising kids and gym and crunk and *head explode*.

It's Red Bull on Monday morning and Jack Daniel's on Monday evening. We love our legal vices and our clutch plate suffers.

Shit, I've worked ~1475 hours in the last 4 months. I haven't had a day off the entire time. I survive on caffeine.

And I figure caffeine is kinda like life... all good things in moderation. But we still need the money, right?

I guess some both-enders make sacrifices so they can chill later. I myself want to retire at 44.

And some folks, well, I guess they just can't get enough Mountain Dew.

/terse jerkoff

match000 · 06-09-2011, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

...
I personally think kids should not consume more than 100 mg of caffeine per day, as above that threshold, you can easily run into problems. The Government of Canada suggests intakes no more than 45 mg to 85 mg for kids, depending on age. Take that with a grain of salt, but remember that the federal government foots a lot of the bill for our health care system.
... /rant

How many mg in a cup of "medium" (ie the small cup on the menu) coffee at Starbucks.. ?

Baraka_Guru · 06-09-2011, 06:13 AM

According to the Starbucks website, their "bold pick of the day" coffee has the following amounts of caffeine:

Short (8 oz.): 180 mg
Tall (12 oz.): 260 mg
Grande (16 oz.): 330 mg
Venti (20 oz.): 415 mg

The Government of Canada also suggests that adults limit their daily caffeine intake to 400 mg.

Plan9 · 06-09-2011, 06:27 AM

Interesting. And I thought Dunkin Donuts was pushing out the heaviest artillery.

So... premium coffee is more "dangerous" than the demonized energy drinks?

Example:

Short Starbucks Coffee = 180 mg of caffeine per 8 oz cup
vs.
Rip It Energy Drink = 100mg per 8 oz can
Pit Bull Energy Drink = 80mg per 8 oz can

I'd have to drink both of them at the same time.

Baraka_Guru · 06-09-2011, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

So... premium coffee is more "dangerous" than the demonized energy drinks?

Example:

Short Starbucks Coffee = 180 mg of caffeine per 8 oz cup
vs.
Rip It Energy Drink = 100mg per 8 oz can
Pit Bull Energy Drink = 80mg per 8 oz can

Premium coffee has more caffeine, but it's not necessarily more dangerous. I'd rather drink Starbucks at twice the caffeine than drink a Rip It or Pit Bull or Red Bull, etc., and I'll tell you why.

Energy drinks have caffeine and a bunch of sugar. No surprise. They also tend to put B vitamins in them, which are keys to energy conversion. Again, no surprise. But they also put taurine in them, some having as much as 1,000 to 2,000 mg per can. Taurine is an amino acid that has an effect on muscle performance in terms of energy and metabolism, which is why energy drinks contain it. Most people consume anywhere from 50 to 400 mg (or more) of the stuff every day, depending on how much meat they eat. However, few will consume over 1,000 mg from food.

They've done studies on this amount being consumed and have found "no adverse effects." But I suppose what that means depends on what the studies are looking for. It also depends on what you're looking for, or what you want to avoid.

I've tried energy drinks. They make me feel weird, and I think it's the added chemistry. It's not just caffeine and sugar: these drinks are designed to boost your metabolic rate to use the sugar in them, hence the "energy" part of the drink. It gives you a source of energy and it gears you up to use it.

It's basically a cocktail to crank you up metabolically.

Not for me.

Plan9 · 06-09-2011, 07:55 AM

...but...

Both Pit Bull and Rip It and just about every other brand are offered in sugar-free variants loaded with those infamous, cancer-giving artificial sweeteners. In this "low carb" bacon-four-meals-a-day ketosis-is-my-cure world, many people simply want the caffeine. The popularity of sugar-free Red Bull and those giant blue cans of Monster are proof enough. We're still left with the giant shots of B vitamins and the other magical kinda-tested (really kinda shady) supplements, of course. They're kinda another issue.

Uh, delivery systems, yes. A lot of people don't like the "earthy" taste of coffee and thus the fruit-flavored super-saccharine Go-Go-Go! juice is the alternative. I mean, I wonder if fruit-flavored energy drinks are more popular with kids than coffee simply because coffee is seen as that "old people dirt drink." Colorful anecdotes galore: I used to drink coffee when I did CAD in a cubicle and nothing had more of a jitters-got'em, diarrhea-inducing, I'm-spazzin'-out-maaan effect on me than the free Starbucks at work.

Baraka_Guru · 06-09-2011, 08:04 AM

True enough.

Much of it is marketing as well. I mean, look at all the names of these drinks: Monster, Rockstar, Redline, NOS, Red Bull, Full Throttle, AMP, Bawls.... It's ridic.

If it were just about the caffeine, they'd drink regular pop, whether it's diet or not.

Plan9 · 06-09-2011, 08:12 AM

Oh, old school big name pop manufacturers are getting on board even in their standard lineup.

Pepsi Max, anybody? No carbs, double dose of caffeine.

match000 · 06-09-2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

According to the Starbucks website, their "bold pick of the day" coffee has the following amounts of caffeine:

Short (8 oz.): 180 mg
Tall (12 oz.): 260 mg
Grande (16 oz.): 330 mg
Venti (20 oz.): 415 mg

The Government of Canada also suggests that adults limit their daily caffeine intake to 400 mg.

Cool, thanks!

I've been meaning to get off the caffeine wagon for a while (ahem like 8 years now.. argh), and I finally did a month free last month. But then I like sitting in Starbucks to do work and I found myself ordering the least costly drink (a small coffee), lately.

So, how many mg is recommended for an adult? I've also read a while ago that decaf has stuff in it that is also present in coffee and bad for you.. but I guess its still better than coffee..

genuinegirly · 06-09-2011, 08:29 AM

Eh, I think that the uproar around the Caffeine Strips is that they are marketed as performance enhancers. When someone says "performance enhancer" what do you think of? My mind shifts directly to steroids.

Encouraging kids to find ways to gain an edge over the competition without improving their skills misses the point of sport, and leads to an unhealthy mindset. They become dependent on something to help them become greater, rather than realizing that true improvement comes from perseverance - ultimately undermining self-worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by match000

... I found myself ordering the least costly drink (a small coffee), lately.

The least costly drink at Starbucks is water. Unless the store is cramped, the employees usually enjoy the company, even if they aren't making a significant purchase. In fact, it can be argued that their business will be improved if someone walking by looks in the window and sees there are people taking up seats. If you are really set on purchasing something, check out the price on a short-sized tea or a children's hot chocolate.

SecretMethod70 · 06-09-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

Could it be... another Let's blame the product instead of the parents thread? Somebody get me a Four Loko.

Mmm Four Loko. The couple times I had it, it was awesome. So sad a few idiots had to ruin it for everyone.

Interesting info about energy drinks Baraka. I had never looked into it in that detail. I still hate the taste of coffee though

While I agree it's important to focus on parenting, parents can't always keep track on what their kids are doing. As it pertains to caffeine, that may not matter, but if we as a society were to decide that children should not be consuming caffeine I don't see anything wrong with regulating its sale to minors. Not saying we should, but it's interesting to consider. God knows my caffeine abuse dates back to well before I was 18

Baraka_Guru · 06-09-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by match000

So, how many mg is recommended for an adult? I've also read a while ago that decaf has stuff in it that is also present in coffee and bad for you.. but I guess its still better than coffee..

As I noted above, the Canadian government suggests consuming no more than 400 mg/day.

If you find the Swiss water process decaffeinated coffee (or the carbon dioxide/water method for tea), then you will avoid the harsh chemicals of other processes.

Also check into the actual beans. Many providers use the robusta bean instead of the higher quality arabica bean to make decaf. Robusta beans are cheap but taste like ass compared to arabica beans. I guess people thing that if you're drinking decaf, you don't care what it tastes like.

match000 · 06-09-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Also check into the actual beans. Many providers use the robusta bean instead of the higher quality arabica bean to make decaf. Robusta beans are cheap but taste like ass compared to arabica beans. I guess people thing that if you're drinking decaf, you don't care what it tastes like.

Ah interesting. Well maybe they figure if you are drinking decaf you are gonna pour in more sugar and cream to mask the fact that you are not drinking actual coffee lol. I know I would (do that)

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

The least costly drink at Starbucks is water. Unless the store is cramped, the employees usually enjoy the company, even if they aren't making a significant purchase. In fact, it can be argued that their business will be improved if someone walking by looks in the window and sees there are people taking up seats. If you are really set on purchasing something, check out the price on a short-sized tea or a children's hot chocolate.

Hmm interesting.. I've checked out the least expensive drink (in fact I've considered getting a children's hot chocolate before HAHA) but they price it the same.. oh well. I dunno if I would be able to sit down and get water without the baristas asking me if I would buy something or not.. Or, maybe I'm not looking forward to having that thought in the back of my head while I work.. that's just me though

However I stopped getting latte's thats for sure. I am not paying for a $4+ drink (post-tax) ...

citadel · 06-10-2011, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Western society is keen on their stimulants on one hand and depressants on the other.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, the mores for ingested substances are complicated. If this was a pill from a bottle purchased from a drug store I don't think there would be any uproar, but putting a strip on your tongue is something hippies do with LSD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

The Government of Canada suggests intakes no more than 45 mg to 85 mg for kids, depending on age. Take that with a grain of salt, but remember that the federal government foots a lot of the bill for our health care system.

Sounds like the taxpayers foot the bill to me.

Baraka_Guru · 06-10-2011, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citadel

Sounds like the taxpayers foot the bill to me.

Well, the way our health care system works is based on provincial jurisdictions that fund their own programs with the help of federal transfers. This means that the federal government has millions of dollars committed to supporting each of the provinces regarding their individual health care programs. This also means that a healthy population will keep the costs down, which is what I was referring to.

Ourcrazymodern? · 06-11-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citadel

I think you hit the nail on the head here, the mores for ingested substances are complicated. If this was a pill from a bottle purchased from a drug store I don't think there would be any uproar, but putting a strip on your tongue is something hippies do with LSD.

Funny, how you hit that nail. Who's taking the profits from the caffeine strips?

StanT · 06-11-2011, 05:15 PM

At 55, I'm running out of vices. Don't fuck with my coffee.

citadel · 06-11-2011, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern?

Funny, how you hit that nail. Who's taking the profits from the caffeine strips?

I'm not following you here.

match000 · 06-12-2011, 02:01 AM

maybe he took one too many of those lsd strips.. :/

Ourcrazymodern? · 06-12-2011, 09:42 AM

Maybe I was referring to the drug companies. Maybe I never needed LSD, but that's neither here nor there. MAYBE you'll alter your statement, or otherwise try to contribute to the topic? I dunno, match000...

Plan9 · 06-12-2011, 10:46 AM

Yeah, so what if it's true?

/LSD

citadel · 06-12-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern?

Maybe I was referring to the drug companies.

Oh, as in, if they're not making money from it, they'll rant about it's dangers publicly? Certainly worth considering.

06-08-2011, 01:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	When you say "intriguing", you must be joking. How much caffeine does it take to be a poison like nicotine? As a nicotine addict who also likes his coffee, I think this is a silly non-issue. Sorry. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

06-08-2011, 01:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Western society is keen on their stimulants on one hand and depressants on the other. The caffeine/alcohol combo is not something legally available to kids, but sure enough they have caffeine. I personally think kids should not consume more than 100 mg of caffeine per day, as above that threshold, you can easily run into problems. The Government of Canada suggests intakes no more than 45 mg to 85 mg for kids, depending on age. Take that with a grain of salt, but remember that the federal government foots a lot of the bill for our health care system. Caffeine is associated with energy, but it's a bit misleading. It's not energy; it gears up the adrenal system. These sheet things have an image of fun-loving, productive, and creative people who use them to enjoy life. Because who doesn't want to be energetic? But like you said, Smeth, we're sleep deprived and probably have a bit more anxiety than we need in our lives. We are too busy and don't know when to stop. This is probably why many adults drink alcohol. It's two gears on a geared-up lifestyle. Go and unwind. Kids today are afraid of silence and can't sit still for just a minute without doing something. There's just too much going on and now we're injecting more caffeine into the equation. I think it's terrible and it underscores a lot of the health issues we have as a society, both physically and mentally. /rant __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

06-08-2011, 09:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	God, I just had flashbacks to that awful Stay Alert gum. ... Could it be... another Let's blame the product instead of the parents thread? Somebody get me a Four Loko. I can see how this type of product would be awesome for truck drivers and GI Joes. I wish I had some here instead of Pit Bull. Kids don't need to be popping it but whaddya gonna do? They shouldn't be smoking weed and having unsafe sex either, amiright? I'm kinda surprised that this is even a topic here considering the general acceptance of licit (and illicit) substance use. Coffee YEAH. Responsibility & Temptation: Because it's just easier to just take everything off the table than try to avoid some things. ... You smart guys are onto something. The issue here is the ups and downs of modern life here in "Western Civilization." I'd be curious to see what kind of market these products have in countries where they aren't torturing themselves for money (as much). It seems to be uniquely American that working 80 hours is what it takes to be successful. And you've gotta fit in that damn pilates class. Here in the US the groupthink on how we should live our lives is becoming more and more like that Smack My Bitch Up music video. We work 12 hour days, we commute 3 hours each way, we're doing college and raising kids and gym and crunk and *head explode. It's Red Bull on Monday morning and Jack Daniel's on Monday evening. We love our legal vices and our clutch plate suffers. Shit, I've worked ~1475 hours in the last 4 months. I haven't had a day off the entire time. I survive on caffeine. And I figure caffeine is kinda like life... all good things in moderation.* But we still need the money, right? I guess some both-enders make sacrifices so they can chill later. I myself want to retire at 44. And some folks, well, I guess they just can't get enough Mountain Dew. /terse jerkoff __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 06-08-2011 at 10:19 PM..

06-09-2011, 06:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	According to the Starbucks website, their "bold pick of the day" coffee has the following amounts of caffeine: Short (8 oz.): 180 mg Tall (12 oz.): 260 mg Grande (16 oz.): 330 mg Venti (20 oz.): 415 mg The Government of Canada also suggests that adults limit their daily caffeine intake to 400 mg. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

06-09-2011, 06:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Interesting. And I thought Dunkin Donuts was pushing out the heaviest artillery. So... premium coffee is more "dangerous" than the demonized energy drinks? Example: Short Starbucks Coffee = 180 mg of caffeine per 8 oz cup vs. Rip It Energy Drink = 100mg per 8 oz can Pit Bull Energy Drink = 80mg per 8 oz can I'd have to drink both of them at the same time. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 06-09-2011 at 06:29 AM..

06-09-2011, 07:55 AM	#10 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	...but... Both Pit Bull and Rip It and just about every other brand are offered in sugar-free variants loaded with those infamous, cancer-giving artificial sweeteners. In this "low carb" bacon-four-meals-a-day ketosis-is-my-cure world, many people simply want the caffeine. The popularity of sugar-free Red Bull and those giant blue cans of Monster are proof enough. We're still left with the giant shots of B vitamins and the other magical kinda-tested (really kinda shady) supplements, of course. They're kinda another issue. Uh, delivery systems, yes. A lot of people don't like the "earthy" taste of coffee and thus the fruit-flavored super-saccharine Go-Go-Go! juice is the alternative. I mean, I wonder if fruit-flavored energy drinks are more popular with kids than coffee simply because coffee is seen as that "old people dirt drink." Colorful anecdotes galore: I used to drink coffee when I did CAD in a cubicle and nothing had more of a jitters-got'em, diarrhea-inducing, I'm-spazzin'-out-maaan effect on me than the free Starbucks at work. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 06-09-2011 at 08:11 AM..

06-09-2011, 08:04 AM	#11 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	True enough. Much of it is marketing as well. I mean, look at all the names of these drinks: Monster, Rockstar, Redline, NOS, Red Bull, Full Throttle, AMP, Bawls.... It's ridic. If it were just about the caffeine, they'd drink regular pop, whether it's diet or not. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

06-09-2011, 08:12 AM	#12 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Oh, old school big name pop manufacturers are getting on board even in their standard lineup. Pepsi Max, anybody? No carbs, double dose of caffeine. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

06-11-2011, 05:15 PM	#21 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	At 55, I'm running out of vices. Don't fuck with my coffee.

06-12-2011, 02:01 AM	#23 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	maybe he took one too many of those lsd strips.. :/

06-12-2011, 09:42 AM	#24 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Maybe I was referring to the drug companies. Maybe I never needed LSD, but that's neither here nor there. MAYBE you'll alter your statement, or otherwise try to contribute to the topic? I dunno, match000... __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

06-12-2011, 10:46 AM	#25 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yeah, so what if it's true? /LSD __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."