Rekna

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070705/...e/apple_iphone
I have to say wow to this. It is going to cost almost $90 to replace your battery on your iphone. In addition, you will loose your phone for a few weeks while you wait for the battery to be replaced unless you pay another $30 for a loaner. This is pretty ridiculous. I can only see this as intentional. There is not a cell phone maker out there (other than apple) that would make a phone whose battery couldn't be swapped midday. What about the business users that talk on their phones 12 hours a day and need to replace the battery with a spare daily? It seems like such an obvious thing that apple should have done but they have shot them self in the foot with this. Batteries typically need to be replaced every 1-2 years. That is a steep cost on top of the originally steep cost for this phone.

Cynthetiq

As stated in the iBrick thread.

I would hardly call this a bait and switch. A bit sensationalistic if anything.

It was well known prior to the sales, that there was no replacement of the battery midday. What was unknown was how either Apple or other 3rd party would deal with it.

Again, I'm 100% positive that someone out there will create an iPhone cracker (maybe some of you remember the old MacCrackers for the original Macs) to easily disassemble the unit, and replace the battery.

Mother Necessity mixed in with some Capitalism.

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Rekna

Of course people did know they couldn't replace the battery. What they didn't know is that it would take $90 plus a few weeks to replace your battery.

ShaniFaye

why should they do it any differently than the ipods?

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Walking Shadow

Give me a fucking break.

Where are they going toi get the extra battery, just walk into Wallmart and buy one?

Please.

Talk about being delusional.

You also ignore the fact that all of the memory in the damn thing gets wiped when you replace the battery, so unless you want to waste time throwing all your photos and illegal MP3's and illegal downloaded vids and address book back into the thing you have to waste time backing all that shit up on your i-pod.

Yeah, that just makes me want to rush out and buy 10 of the goddamn things.

ShaniFaye

yeah....I've never lost any of the information on any cell phone I had by replacing the battery....thats just ridiculous

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

Weeks, again with the sensationalism.

Most of the sites I've seen that responded to this press release corroborate maybe a 7 day turnaround. With Apple Stores being across the nation. I see the service working well. You walk inside the store, fill out a form, possible get a rental unit from them, and oh look! new shiny Macs!! possibly buy a new Mac or other accessories. Return back to the store to pick up your iPhone and return rental. Two visits to the store.

IMO this is Apple managing the PR in the wake of things like the original iPod wherein there was no program in place to replace the battery nor third party vendors.

I'd also wager that by the time the battery fails, the 2nd or 3rd generation units will be available. Electircal engineering is an exact science today. They can pinpoint and manipulate the exact fail points for expected lifetime.

The memory in my Palm gets deleted when I replace that battery. I drop it into the cradle and it syncs back.

Same thing for the iPhone. You just have to make sure that you sync before you give it up.

As far as the battery is concerned, you can buy battery packs for iPods in some stores already that were originally sold by ipodbattery.com.

You may live in bumblefuck nowhere, but I can currently go to J&R Musicworld in downtown Manhattan and purchase an iPod battery replacement. I'd be back to work in 30 minutes.

and if you don't have a J&R World near you, Circuit City carries them too.

I don't see what the news is about this, except to take snipes at Apple.

Mind you, I don't care for Apple nor their business practices, they lost me as a customer when the Mac 128k came out, but their business model is as sound as any others out there.

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Mister Coaster

The cost of "the latest high-tech gadget" has always been high. You wanna be kewl and have the hottest shit on the market, be prepared to shell out big bucks for it.

This marketing ploy (and that's all it is) doesn't surprise me at all. Apple has all of their iFlock ripe for the picking, and seeing as how the rest of technology has caught up to (and surpassed?) Apple's gadgets and computers at a lower cost, what else can they do except introduce a new "gotta have it" toy? Then force you to pay up the whazoo for the gadget itself, the overpriced service, overpriced activation and overpriced battery replacement.

Then again, if you can afford a PHONE that costs $600, you can afford the upcharges that come with it.

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snowy

My thoughts exactly. It's like buying a gas-guzzling SUV--the guys that buy Hummers are the ones that can afford to put the gas in the Hummer. As for the battery replacement issue, most every article I read on the iPhone prior to its launch mentioned speculation of precisely how Apple would address the battery replacement issue, and most of them assumed it would be similar to the iPod battery replacement strategy--wow, they were right. Not really a big surprise. And I'm sure, as Cyn suggested, the market will adjust to meet consumer's needs--sure, there aren't third-party people out there yet replacing iPhone batteries, but give it a year and there will be.

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Glory's Sun

Yeah because using the sync feature is just <i>SO</i> troublesome and time consuming

In the iBrick thread you were so angry about the iPhone.. and it's repeated here.. seriously.. if you don't like it then don't buy one. Why all the crazy hatred? If people wish to spend their money on a gadget that's their right to do so.. even if you don't think it's viable.. it's not your cash.

Apple has a great business model and an even better advertising agency. Apple could sell Steve Jobs turds if they wanted to. In the end.. big fucking deal. They've done a great job with marketing and why anyone would be so full of hate for that is beyond me. Besides, if the phone is so terrible, that leaves room for the competition to make a move.

Cynthetiq

LOL, on my Palm I actually have to press a button. On my iPod, I just dock it, I guess that the iPhone does the same thing since the details are in the simplicity of usage. I'm sure you can turn it off, like I can with the iPod. And so that Walking Shadow can't call me a hypocrite, I didn't buy the iPod it was given to me by my wife who won it at a sales meeting.

The slick Apple marketing machine has almost caught me back a couple times, but so far, it hasn't.

and yeah, people even clamour over Fake Steve Jobs. Go figure!

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Frosstbyte

There's a big difference between being able to afford expensive things and throwing money away. This falls into the later category. It's a poor design and a poor execution and should never have made it to market (especially since they made EXACTLY the same mistake with the iPod when it was first released). The way the world and virtually every portable electronic device on the planet uses rechargeable batteries, not making it hotswap-able is really just silly.

That doesn't mean that people didn't know it was coming or anything else, but it does mean that there's no reason the ambiguous "someone" shouldn't have come up with a more elegant solution.

On a side note after reading Cynthetiq's post, I'd rather the iPod had a command for sync'ing instead of doing it automatically. The whole process devours my system's processing power for some reason (I think it's just that the windows iTunes port is horribly inefficient) so it'd be nice not to have it auto-load iTunes and go through all that just because I plug it in.

Willravel

Amen.

This is a non-story.

Frosstbyte

Because that was a bad way too?

Cynthetiq

why? People I know sent their ipods back to Apple to have them replaced. They were very happy with the service they received.

People I know sent their ipods to 3rd party vendors, again, happy with the end result.

where's the disconnect?

I disabled mine from autosyncing. It no longer does it. It also does not load itunes upon connecting it, loading itunes is a system resource hog, not the syncing. Both are options that you can set seperately.

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Willravel

No. My iPod mini's battery lasted for more than a few years. When I sold it on craigslist after 2 years of heavy use, it was still gong strong. There's no reason to think that the battery on the iPhone will go bad before you get to upgrade in a few years to a newer model.

Again, non-story.

Jetée

Yeah, the way I see it, Apple has learned everything, yet chosen to go a separate route. Cynthetiq says that they allowed for third-party vendors to solve the battery-replacement issues in its stead, but that by no means has the Apple Company resolving the issue.

They perhaps did learn something, but not in the way you or the akin consumer would have liked it to...

Apple figured this in its way to promote a solid service for something that would eventually need taken care of, as it did with the iPods: the space-saving, non-tamper, integrated battery. It learned that this was a way to endorse the sleek look of its model, whether it be the iPod or the iPhone, and also have a sure money-income with the battery-replacement deal. Those that can afford to buy the iPhone and have it last, well, surely the would send it in to a trusted company that can assure a quality replacement job with guaranteed results.

That is the way business works: you identify a market, and then you target it with a quantifiable service that would be able to indugle the market.

This is what Apple learned, how to be a successful company that a fair share of consumers wouldn't mind spending extra for their services. Simple as that.

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Mister Coaster

I couldn't agree more! The entire iPhone market strategy appears to be "Get people to throw away good money for something they don't really need." Face it, most tech-heads who bought the iPhone already have something that does the same thing anyway, they just want the new shiny one.

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Glory's Sun

Isn't most marketing "Get people to throw away good money for something they don't really need"?

Cynthetiq

Apple has always dictated form and function to the customer, and not using focus groups to hone that dictation. I'm sure people remember the original iMac hockey puck mouse...

But yes, that is a very good assessment of their business model.

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The_Jazz

Close. I think marketing is "get people to think that they NEED something that they WANT". For some, that's throwing money away. For others, not so much.

Either way, Apple is very good at convincing people that they need the latest device.

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Frosstbyte

My iPod battery has effectively ceased to function after two years. I would much rather walk to my friendly neighborhood electronics store, buy a new battery and be on my way than dealing with sending it in and waiting and then having it come back. People (by that I mean devoted consumers of Mac products) don't seem to be particularly perturbed about it, so I guess it's working for them, as Jetstream observed.

To me it's another of Apple doing things the way they want to do them which makes me pay more and use more time for something that ought to be quick and easy. I guess I'll just have to content myself with that opinion and with buying other products when I can, since I still think it's a bad solution to a straightforward problem.

Again, it's not about spending money, even a lot of money. It's spending extra money to do something I can do myself. It's like the dudes in the bathrooms of swanky clubs and restaurants. I don't need you to open the door. I don't need you to hand me a towel or turn on the faucet. In fact, I'd rather not have you sitting there watching me take a piss and then giving me a dirty look when I only put a dollar in your tip jar.

Cynthetiq

Skogafoss' original ipod battery stopped working many years ago. She replaced it with a 60Gb video ipod. But I got her an ihome clock/radio that also will wake you up with an ipod. So now that's her morning wake up.

As far as the bathroom attendant, why put anything in if you don't use the services?

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Willravel

Well one argument that can be made is that the removable battery makes the whole unit less strong.

Anyway, this is what happens when people start running out of things to complain about. People made similar complaints about the iPod, and it now controls around 80% of the mp3 market. Assuming Apple Inc. can produce a cheaper version that works on any network, the same thing could happen to the cell phone market. Sorry, Nokia.

ShaniFaye

some people, not all. I wouldnt own an apple device if you gave it to me.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Willravel

On the other hand, if they wanted to sell a 60GB model or upgrade, I'd be on it like a hobo on a ham sandwich.

Glory's Sun

Is there any particular reason behind this??

ShaniFaye

They really disappointed me with this whole you have to send this back to us to get it to work again kind of thing when the Ipod's came out...to see that they are screwing over people again with this phone that could almost double as a remote control for the space shuttle makes me even madder.

If someone wants to give them their money, great go for it. Me? Im happy with my Motorola phone and my creative labs mp3 player

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Jetée

Do you have a Zen Shani?

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Glory's Sun

I understand where you're coming from but to me it's not really a big issue. It's no different than buying a Porsche and having to take it to a Porsche dealership to get it fixed. Apple has decided on a design but instead of only being able to take it to Apple stores, they have allowed third-parties to step in and make the repair go smoothly as well as give the consumers options on when/where they want their product fixed.

Sure, I won't be looking at the iPhone until it is available with a replaceable battery, but that's only because I go through batteries like crazy and I like to keep an extra battery handy.

I don't really see how it's screwing people over. People have known for quite a while that the iPhone would be released without a removeable battery, and the people who purchased one, weighed that factor against the others and decided it wasn't much of an issue. Charging for the replacement is only common sense to the business model of any company. I could understand anger if the batteries failed every couple weeks or after a few months, but the fact that the iPod batteries handled so well is testament that this phone with it's non-replaceable unit will be around long enough until you see v2.

So basically, are you saying that if I handed you a Macbook Pro you wouldn't take it??

Cynthetiq

If that's a fair offer, yes please. I'll PM you the shipping address.

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Rekna

Actually a better analogy is buying a Porsche that had a battery soldered into it. Then in order to replace the battery you had to take it into a Porsche dealer and instead of paying $200 you had to pay $2000. In addition if you didn't get it fixed through the dealer your warranty would be invalid.

Every other company on this planet has figured out how to put moduler batteries into their devices. Is the modular battery going to go the same way as the 2nd mouse button?

cyrnel

The warranty isn't invalidated unless the tech screws it up. But, relative values would mean ~$7k+ for the Porsche battery.

Really, it's not the biggest issue. People who don't buy because of the battery would find something else wrong anyway. Or maybe it's better to say those who want it aren't going to be dissuaded by the battery issue alone. They know 3rd party rapid replacements will be available before they need one.

/me wonders what a Porsche dealer charges for the first 12mo service.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

MSD

It's a good analogy, because in my experience, the average Porsche owner who buys new is the kind of person (I'm tempted to say "elitist shithead") who has no problem paying 2 grand for the dealership to replace a battery and thinks it's perfectly fine as long as it has the logo on it. The average mac user I've seen is the kind of person (I'm tempted to say "brainwashed hipster") who thinks that Apple can do no wrong and makes decides from among competing products based on which one has the logo they're loyal to.

Glory's Sun

See now we get to the whole point. If a person wants to buy something they will justify it in their minds however they want.. including the hassle and price of sending their phone in to replace a battery.

xepherys

It's not bait and switch, but it's bad business. First of all, some things people just expect, like being able to replace their cell phone battery. It'd be like HP making a laptop that doesn't have a screen, then in the ad they put "*No screen". First of all, most people just would think it was a misprint if they read it. Secondly, a lot of people may not notice. I mean, who the hell makes a laptop with no screen, right? Who makes a cellphone without a replaceable battery. Yes, it's their first. Yes, it's like an iPod. However, consumers have certain expectations.

I dunno, I just expect WAY more from Apple. I mean, they're Apple for pete sake!

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thingstodo

I don't think markeing people can convince most people to do something they don't already want to do.

We have so many things that are "wants" and very few that are "needs." I didn't need an iPod but I wanted one and enjoy it. And I wanted a smaller version when they came out.

My wife still uses my old mini after 4 years and we've yet to need to replace the battery. And she uses it all the time teaching yoga classes. And I've yet to replace the battery on my Nano.

However...I have no desire to get an iPhone!

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Willravel

Don't forget the hassle of listening to voicemail in any order, having a widescreen iPod, amazing touch-screen, having the best mobile browser ever available, and basically having the coolest phone out there. I guess people can justify this travesty in their minds because of their unchecked wants. It's sad, really.

Glory's Sun

Bad business? If it was bad business then the stores wouldn't have been packed with people buying the phone. Consumers knew well ahead of time that the battery wasn't replaceable. Common sense would tell you that if the battery isn't replaceable then some sort of service would be needed in order to fix the phone. The stores were still packed and people like the phone. I like the phone but as I've said, I'm waiting for at least 2nd gen before I consider buying one.

cyrnel

Batteries are one of those Apple things. Things that seem inconsistent with their extraordinary efforts toward making attractive, elegant, and simple-to-use products.

I'm sure we could guess most of the reasons for making iStuff batteries difficult to replace - longer design time, it'd be thicker, it'd be heavier, it'd be weaker, it'd cost more, they'd make less on service, etc. - but knowing their formula wouldn't change that they've been pretty consistent in this area.

I put the battery thing in the annoying-but-not-a-deal-breaker category. My breakers are: 1) no phone-as-modem; 2) AT&T data service sucks. I'd have to buy data service from another carrier. Right. SOL for now.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195