Ok while there may not technically be a virus able to propagate on OS-X, we're starting to see the beginning of the cycle. A trojan horse has been found and although it's poorly written and doesn't propagate outside of your network, it's a start.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/...16234239.shtml


back to the topic, I'm curious to see what is going to happen with the iwhatever now that Cingular has been bought out by AT&T. IMO, I don't think it's going to have the buying power it would have if Cingular stayed Cingular. :shrug: I love the look of the phone but for some reason I'm becoming less enamored with it every day.

:shrug:

Mac users are dooming themselves to a massive viral outbreak. The whole attitude that we can't get viruses and thus don't need to worry will be their down fall when the first good mac trojan or mac worm is released.

Also willravel you state that mac comes with all this software and PC's don't but you seem to forget that microsoft is prohibited by the DOJ to put all the software on there. If Mac were to have the microsofts market share the whole Mac business model would be considered monopolistic and they would be shut down.

The PC instabilities and viruses by in large are due to 3rd party drivers. Mac doesn't have this problem because they don't have 3rd party hardware. Personally i'd rather be able to customize my own computer and upgrade it when necessary. Hell just yesterday I upgraded a 5 year old machine of mine to a machine that is better than mid range macs for under $300 (new MB, proc, ram, video card), buying it from Apple would have cost me a hell of a lot more.

Just because we have't gotten a virus doesn't mean we are not vigilant in protecting our systems. Apple has a crack team of programmers that's only job is staying succesful against those who would create virisus and worms and trojans. We get security updates just like you do, the marked difference is our security is 100% preventative.
Microsoft didn't do their homework on monopoly law in the US. It's microsoft's fault that they are prohibited by the DOJ, and the customer has to pay the price. Mac has learned a lot about the legality of being an electronic company. Mac is holding 80+% of the market of mp3 players and is holding. I don't see Zune or iRiver getting ready to sue Apple for having a monopoly.
Not everyone wants to build his or her own computer, and not everyone wants to use 3rd party drivers. While I do use Firefox (which is quite stable), I could just as easily use Safari without losing anything.

And this is a mistake. Ask any security expert and they all say that good security must involve overlapping layers.

Having a single layer is very dangerous. Macs need to add 2 more layers to avoid viruses. The first is detection and correction and the second is user education. I fear the second one is where Mac (and PC) users need the most work. Many people who use a Mac truly believe that their computers are immune to viruses and the mac salesman have furthered this by saying it when selling the computers to users. What happens when the first good mac trojan gets spammed out to mac users and people blindly execute the code?

While I can agree with almost everything Willravel posts in this forum I must point out how ironic it is that Ipods are simply the better mp3 player because they dominate "80% of the market" but Microsoft's share of the operating system market is nothing more than meaningless specs.

It all boils down to personal preference.
You say this as if everyone at Microsoft twiddles their thumbs until the service calls come in - having an operating system that isn't popular enough to have have many viruses written for it isn't revolutionary, especially when most viruses are caught through misuse or negligence. When Apple releases a Mac that is impervious to attacks when I go looking for viruses or at the very least a mac that can withstand a latte being spilled into it then I'll be more than willing enough to deem them better than PCs.

It amazes me that people can still have this argument.

-

While the iPhones tech goodies certainly seem worth of a fondle, I can't imagine how people could prefer it or any other PDA to a camera equipped cellphone and laptop. The iPhone has the obvious size advantage but when you factor in the fact that low-voltage processors are readily available, larger capacity batteries are being developed and ultra-portable laptops are only getting smaller you'll start to see that the iPhones advantages really aren't that significant.

I'm curious to see when Apple Inc. will release the second generation. Apple is infamous for releasing something groundbreaking, the releasing a better version soon (sometimes less than a year) after. It's clear that the iPhone will be very, very cool very, very soon. When do you think that the next generation will be released? I'm putting my money on Q1 2008, but it could be sooner.

we had this apple vs. pc debate in another thread:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=112849

Apple was not the first to make a webcam integrated. I also loath the apple vs. mac commercials. They aren't clever, they aren't funny, they are nowhere near accurate and they just plain suck. The latest one is even more ridiculous. The line where he says "You are coming to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow?" is just blatant bashing of Microsoft. The smugness and ignorance that I get from a lot of Apple users when talking about PC's is just astounding. If you want to see counters to these commercials, look at:

http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...s-perspective/

That being said, I have an 80 gig iPod, a MacbookPro, and will definitely get an iPhone. Also to be said, I love my PC also. They are both great for certain things. I would never get a desktop mac though because I love building my own PC and macs have pretty much zero customization possibilities.

What a great big thread jack. Would you care to talk about anything else? Maybe we can discuss the maltreatment of dolphins by the Japanese or if the Middle East has a full out war? Or maybe you can stick to the subject at hand. I could easily jump into every Windows or PC related thread and shoot off Mac selling points or PC weaknesses, but I don't because I have self control. I would ask that you show that same self control.

This thread is specifically about two products: the iPhone and the appleTV. This is not a Mac vs. PC thread. This is not about Mac commercials, Mac OSX, Windows, PCs or the ability to build a computer. I'm getting really sick of the BS thread jacks and all out wars over something as trivial as what operating system you prefer.

The first 23 posts of this thread managed to stay on subject. After that it was hit and miss. Now, it's degraded into meaningless tripe.

You couldn't possibly be serious Will - you say that as if you don't troll the tech section for any topic in which you could insert your completely biased and preference based thoughts on Macs are infinitely better than anything and everything.

One would assume that as you are obviously the common factor in these annoying discussions that you'd be compelled to assume some personal responsibility for the role that you apparently play in causing and/or facilitating them - but no, it's everyone else's fault.

I'm not saying that I don't agree with you, I'm sure you believe as well as I do that this forum can do better than this - I simply suggest you get the ball rolling with a little self-analysis.

Ad Hominem argument, and you're thread jacking. I do participate in the Apple vs. PC thing, but only in the appropriate threads. I don't just jump into any old thread and start up.

Can we please go back to talking about the iPhone or the appleTV?

just to clarify, I only jumped in here after the thread had been on and on about the pc v. mac debate. I'm not here to "jump into every Windows or PC related thread and shoot off Mac selling points or PC weaknesses". I simply came in after the thread had degraded to put in my $0.02.

Also, I didnt just jump into an old thread for the purpose of threadjacking, I just looked at the last post before you ressurected the thread and it wasn't that old, and to be honest I didn't look at any other post date except your previous comment, hence the reason I didn't realize you resurrected it. My apologies.

Also, I did mention that I will be buying an iPhone so as to keep it on topic. :p I will wait for the second gen iPhone to come out though because I have learned not to buy anything from Apple that is a first revolution model.

As to your previous comment about apple releasing a great, "groundbreaking" version, I think that will probably be out within 6 months. I also think that this style of completely revamping a product within 6 months of its release (ala Macbook/Pro) kind of shafts Apple's more hardcore fans. I say that because from my experience, the hardcore Apple fans are usually the ones to run out and buy the new product right away only for it to be obsolete rather quickly with nothing they can really do to upgrade it short of buying a new one. They seem to be using their major fanbase as a means to test out a product that might not be ready for release to the general public since it will take some time for the general public to accept this new product. The perfect example was the Rev. 1 MacbookPros. They had so many problems with those that it seemed as if it was a beta test for their final release. This will be even worse with the iPhone. There will be nothing that person can do who jumps on the bandwagon right away and grabs one later to realize that the next iPhone will be here in a few months and it has GPS, 3G, CDMA, HSDPA, will come with sizes up to 30GB, a 4 Megapixel camera, a video camera, and it even wipes your ass for you. I know several people that feel slapped in the face by Apple for supporting them early on in a new product only to be slapped in the face in a few months time with something "groundbreaking" for the masses.

I just find it a little disconcerting.