9th circuit allows recall to proceed??? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-23-2003, 12:10 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ing/index.html

Quote:

SAN FRANCISCO, California (CNN) -- Barring some unforeseen move, California voters will decide in two weeks whether to kick Democratic Gov. Gray Davis -- under fire for his stewardship of the state's economy -- out of office.

The state's unprecedented gubernatorial recall election got the green light Tuesday from a federal appeals court, which overturned last week's decision delaying the October 7 vote.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which had sought the postponement, indicated it would not appeal Tuesday's ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, suggesting the recall election is in the clear.

The unanimous ruling from an 11-judge panel with the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals came less than 24 hours after a hearing at which the ACLU argued that the recall election should be delayed until March when some counties would be able to replace outdated and unreliable voting equipment.

But the judges rejected that claim, concluding that more harm would come from postponing the election than allowing it to move forward. The ruling overturned a decision from a three-judge panel from the same court to postpone the election.

"There is no doubt that the right to vote is fundamental, but a federal court cannot lightly interfere with or enjoin a state election," the 11 judges ruled. The judges said that "hundreds of thousands" of absentee voters already have cast their ballot and that the candidates have crafted their campaigns to coincide with the October 7 election.

"These investments of time, money and the exercise of citizenship rights cannot be returned," the ruling said.

The judges said the ACLU had raised some valid points, particularly as they relate to the claim that the use of punch-card ballots would disproportionately affect minority voters. That machinery is used in six counties with large minority populations, and the six counties make up about 44 percent of registered voters.

But the judges said such a claim of voting mishaps was only a "possibility," not "a strong likelihood."

A coalition of civil rights groups originally had sought to delay the election in U.S. District Court, which denied the request. But the three-judge appeals panel granted it last week -- a move that turned out to be short-lived with Tuesday's ruling.

ACLU won't appeal
As it stands, Californians will face a two-part vote on October 7. They will decide whether Davis should be ousted. They also will pick a replacement -- choosing from 135 names on the ballot -- in case Davis is recalled.

Voters also will consider two statewide initiatives: Proposition 53, a proposed constitutional amendment requiring that a portion of the state budget be set aside for infrastructure spending, and Proposition 54, a measure that would restrict the ability of government agencies to collect racial data.

Kevin Shelley, California's secretary of state and chief elections officer, commended the judges on what he said was "their carefully reasoned deliberation and -- perhaps most importantly -- swift opinion."

An aide to Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante -- who was required by the California Constitution to set the date for the election -- said her boss, the leading Democratic contender in the recall race, also was pleased that the decision was a quick one.

"There are many important issues facing Californians, and now we can move on and let the people decide who they want to lead them," said Lynn Montgomery, chief of staff for Bustamanate.

A spokesman for Arnold Schwarzenegger, the leading Republican candidate, hailed the ruling as "good news."

"The election has been ongoing with absentee ballots, hundreds of thousands of votes have already been cast, and now is time to move on to Election Day on October 7," said spokesman Sean Walsh.

A spokesman for an anti-recall group suggested his organization would not pursue further legal appeals but called on officials to make sure the election would be fair.

"It is time to move forward, but it is now doubly important that counties do everything in their power to make sure every single vote is counted," said Peter Ragone, communications director for Californians Against the Costly Recall.

Meanwhile, Davis was scheduled to appear Tuesday with another high-profile Democrat, part of a bid to cast the recall as some sort of national referendum.

Democrats are trying to depict the recall election as an effort by Republicans to overturn an election they could not win in November, when Davis was re-elected to a second term.

Davis is set to discuss homeland security with Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Joe Lieberman in Santa Ana, while Schwarzenegger has a town hall meeting scheduled in Sacramento.

Even Schwarzenegger's wife, television journalist Maria Shriver, is in on the act, speaking to the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco on "Ten Things You Should Know About Arnold."

On Wednesday, the leading recall candidates -- including Schwarzenegger who has skipped earlier forums -- will gather for a debate.

I must say I am surprised by the move, I think for once this court made the right decision. I guess they aren't half bad when they have the full 11 Judges presiding rather than 3. Reactions? THoughts?

seretogis · 09-23-2003, 01:07 PM

It looks like a purely political move more than any sort of "coming to senses" by the judges.

JBX · 09-23-2003, 01:14 PM

It's the smart move. The other three Judges were legislating from the bench. Besides 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is tired of being overturned by bad decisions.

Lebell · 09-23-2003, 01:19 PM

I thought it was interesting that one of the ACLU's arguments was that the punch cards would affect minority voters.

My view is, minority or majority, if you are too stupid to figure out a punch card* maybe you shouldn't have the right to vote.

*non-confusing Florida punch cards aside...

geep · 09-23-2003, 01:43 PM

There must be a way to limit the power of the judicial tyrants who make laws from their politics and usurp the will of the people. (and don't give me the standard "Tyranny of the Masses" argument)

Peryn · 09-23-2003, 02:20 PM

These judges did find a way to limit to power of the courts and stop the judicial tyranny. They did what was legal, and more, what was right. The three wacko judges that made the original ruling were out of bounds. There was no legal justification for their ruling. THAT was purely political. Also, they deliberately took the case to those three judges because they are known for radical decisions based on nothing more than their political beliefs. An 11-0 unanimous decision speaks volumes about teh credibility of those original three judges.

I find the ACLU's comments belittling, racist, and downright rude. Just because someone has an african or latin american descent automatically makes them stupider than the rest of the population? "You are black, therefore we must stop the election because you are too stupid to vote properly." I mean really, they aren't smart enough to punch the card or hit the button on the machine? Its a wonder they can remember their own phone number

If i were not white i would be up in arms about their comments. I would be furious that they think they must speak for us because we are too stupid or think for ourselves...that we must be protected because we are too stupid to be capable of thinkin for ourselves... GRRR! just typing this i am getting pissed.

Anyway, the court made the right decision, and the only possible decision based on the facts, not political beliefs.

Phaenx · 09-23-2003, 05:03 PM

Beehive plus stick equals conversation

Glad to see the democratic process moving forward =).

chavos · 09-23-2003, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
I thought it was interesting that one of the ACLU's arguments was that the punch cards would affect minority voters.

My view is, minority or majority, if you are too stupid to figure out a punch card* maybe you shouldn't have the right to vote.

*non-confusing Florida punch cards aside...

Punch cards confuse voters at higher rates. they are hard to recount, and cause higher error rates than other methods of voting. they are used in minority areas disproprtionately. now, how is that arguement belittling to minorities? The ACLU is saying they're stupid becuase they're given a crappy way to vote? I think not...

bish · 09-24-2003, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chavos
Punch cards confuse voters at higher rates. they are hard to recount, and cause higher error rates than other methods of voting. they are used in minority areas disproprtionately. now, how is that arguement belittling to minorities? The ACLU is saying they're stupid becuase they're given a crappy way to vote? I think not...

Where was the ACLU during the last general election when Gov. Davis was re-elected?? You know this move was purely political. They are portraying minorities and the poor as unintelligent fools who can't punch a hole into a piece of paper!!! That's not belittling??

Thraeryn · 09-24-2003, 06:23 AM

I'm just glad the election will be taking place. I want to hear all about Governor Schwarzenegger.

bonbonbox · 09-25-2003, 11:10 PM

From what I read, research done on voting methods show punch cards have a lower rate of miscount than other forms of voting. The circus show that Florida had attempting to jury-rig the counting of cards that were deemed partial votes and the animosity that arose from the courts being drug into the fray has clearly made it's way cross country. I yearn for the day I don't hear the word minority and hear instead American sans hyphen.

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-25-2003, 11:33 PM

ACLU and 9th circuit are the biggest joke/problem of the American legal system, we would all be better off it they were erased from our great nation.

Mr. Mojo · 09-26-2003, 02:49 AM

<i>The judges said the ACLU had raised some valid points, particularly as they relate to the claim that the use of punch-card ballots would disproportionately affect minority voters. That machinery is used in six counties with large minority populations, and the six counties make up about 44 percent of registered voters. </i>

How does a punch card machine know the difference between a white guy and a minority?

<i>The judges said that "hundreds of thousands" of absentee voters already have cast </i>

The 3 judges were fine with throwing out absentee votes.

This is the most Overturned Court in America!

09-23-2003, 01:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	It looks like a purely political move more than any sort of "coming to senses" by the judges. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

09-23-2003, 01:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
JBX Unfair and Imbalanced Location: Upstate, NY	It's the smart move. The other three Judges were legislating from the bench. Besides 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is tired of being overturned by bad decisions. __________________ "Youth and Strength is no match for Age and Treachery"

09-23-2003, 01:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I thought it was interesting that one of the ACLU's arguments was that the punch cards would affect minority voters. My view is, minority or majority, if you are too stupid to figure out a punch card* maybe you shouldn't have the right to vote. *non-confusing Florida punch cards aside... __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

09-23-2003, 02:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	These judges did find a way to limit to power of the courts and stop the judicial tyranny. They did what was legal, and more, what was right. The three wacko judges that made the original ruling were out of bounds. There was no legal justification for their ruling. THAT was purely political. Also, they deliberately took the case to those three judges because they are known for radical decisions based on nothing more than their political beliefs. An 11-0 unanimous decision speaks volumes about teh credibility of those original three judges. I find the ACLU's comments belittling, racist, and downright rude. Just because someone has an african or latin american descent automatically makes them stupider than the rest of the population? "You are black, therefore we must stop the election because you are too stupid to vote properly." I mean really, they aren't smart enough to punch the card or hit the button on the machine? Its a wonder they can remember their own phone number If i were not white i would be up in arms about their comments. I would be furious that they think they must speak for us because we are too stupid or think for ourselves...that we must be protected because we are too stupid to be capable of thinkin for ourselves... GRRR! just typing this i am getting pissed. Anyway, the court made the right decision, and the only possible decision based on the facts, not political beliefs. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

09-23-2003, 05:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Beehive plus stick equals conversation Glad to see the democratic process moving forward =). __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

09-23-2003, 01:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	There must be a way to limit the power of the judicial tyrants who make laws from their politics and usurp the will of the people. (and don't give me the standard "Tyranny of the Masses" argument)

09-24-2003, 06:23 AM	#10 (permalink)
Thraeryn Loser	I'm just glad the election will be taking place. I want to hear all about Governor Schwarzenegger.

09-25-2003, 11:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
bonbonbox Banned	From what I read, research done on voting methods show punch cards have a lower rate of miscount than other forms of voting. The circus show that Florida had attempting to jury-rig the counting of cards that were deemed partial votes and the animosity that arose from the courts being drug into the fray has clearly made it's way cross country. I yearn for the day I don't hear the word minority and hear instead American sans hyphen.

09-25-2003, 11:33 PM	#12 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	ACLU and 9th circuit are the biggest joke/problem of the American legal system, we would all be better off it they were erased from our great nation. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

09-26-2003, 02:49 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mr. Mojo Addict Location: NYC	<i>The judges said the ACLU had raised some valid points, particularly as they relate to the claim that the use of punch-card ballots would disproportionately affect minority voters. That machinery is used in six counties with large minority populations, and the six counties make up about 44 percent of registered voters. </i> How does a punch card machine know the difference between a white guy and a minority? <i>The judges said that "hundreds of thousands" of absentee voters already have cast </i> The 3 judges were fine with throwing out absentee votes. This is the most Overturned Court in America! __________________ When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression