Header install problems.

[Rigor]

I own a 96 civic which is slow as dirt. So with no knowledge what so ever about cars i decided to put on some headers. I got them installed works fine, i didnt feel like i was going any faster... but thats not my main problem... the "exaust gasket" i believe thats the name wont fit anymore so i tried to run my car without it, well whenever i hit the gas or whenever my car changes gear it vibrates clanks and rattles at the joint where my header and exaust pipe meet. Im woundering where i could find one that would fit my cars new header. i went to auto zone and hte guy told me i needed teh same one, so i bought it and well, it was still to small.

My last problem is the O2 sensor is stuck in my old header, i tried everything heating it up, wd40, even a $15 socket the guy at auto zone said would work... well it didnt. anyone have advice?

EDIT:
I read the sticky so here is hte info u guys might need.
Year 96
Make Civic
Model (and trim line) DX
Engine type No idea
Transmission type What the heck?
Drivetrain configuration (FWD, RWD, 4WD, AWD) FWD
Number of doors, options, etc. 2 door
Any modifications that you have made to the car Headers

[merkerguitars]

Yeah running the car without the proper gaskets is bad news, that can cause warping and all sort of fun problems, contact the company that made your header about gaskets, see if they can give you some part numbers. Which gasket didn't you put on? The one that goes to the head or the downpipe? And also, just buy a new o2 sensor, your probably gonna wreck it if it needs that much force. Also, are you running your car without the o2 sensor?

[Uncle Pony]

A header isn't going to help your performance at all. It takes a lot more than a header to make a civic fast. Without other mods, like an intake, throttle body, bigger exhaust, bigger injectors, (preferably) a new head, nitrous, and a slew of other expensive shit you're just wasting your money.

Anyway, the gasket probably won't fit because the collector on the header is bigger than your exhaust pipe. If not, the stock gasket should work and you did something wrong.

As far as the O2 sensor goes, use a breaker bar (if you have one) and a cheater pipe. Lefty loosy, righty tighty. Put the pipe in a vice if you have one. If not, have someone hold it. If that fails you'll have to buy another one.

[cyrnel]

As for the Civic part, Unle Pony said it.

I'm guessing the sensor is already rounded? Use a pipe wrench.

WD40 is good for burning bugs but is terrible as a penetrating fluid.

[shakran]

well i dunno about needing nitrous to make a civic fast - or at least quick. You can make a civic much more fun to drive (remember, not all of us are after 1/4 mile times) with some simple mods, but you have to do some homework and not just throw parts at it hoping something will happen.

As for your gasket, find out what you need from whoever made the header, then get it from Mr. Gasket. (http://go.mrgasket.com/Brands.aspx?BrandID=1)

You'll need to compliment that header with a new cat and a new performance exhaust system before it does you any good (and that's assuming the header is a decent one). You'll also need to improve the intake side.

There are several Civic/CRX forums out there that can help you find more power. . . .

[cj2112]

OK it's stupid question time, but I'm gonna ask it anyways. Are you positive that you removed ALL of the old gasket material from the head before attempting to install the new gasket? Are you positive that this header is the correct header for your engine?

[waltert]

Originally Posted by Uncle Pony

A header isn't going to help your performance at all. It takes a lot more than a header to make a civic fast. Without other mods, like an intake, throttle body, bigger exhaust, bigger injectors, (preferably) a new head, nitrous, and a slew of other expensive shit you're just wasting your money.

thanks chief, your wisdom is unsurpassed in these matters

at the thread maker, take some pictures. as for the O2 sensor, just buy a new one, its not a big deal.
It doesnt sound like you really know what you're doing. get us some pictures, this is an incredibly easy task. I swapped headers on my 4 banger in about 45 minutes.

also, www.honda-tech.com might be able to help, but you shouldnt really need to go there.

[Borla]

You might want to edit the first sentence, cause I'm guessing you didn't put on "headers" plural.


May I asked what possessed you to put on a header, yourself, with no prior car knowledge? It's not the toughest job, but it certainly isn't something I'd recommend someone with ZERO experience doing on their own.

As was already mentioned, you aren't going to get much performance out of that car without some serious work, and even then you are limited. Something about the engines displacement being less than the bottle of Pepsi I have in the fridge.

Did you keep the old exhaust manifold? Have you tried seeing if the gasket that was given you for it works with the old manifold? Maybe the header you have is the incorrect one?

Hope you get it all figured out man.

[Uncle Pony]

Originally Posted by waltert

thanks chief, your wisdom is unsurpassed in these matters

Apparently he didn't already know, so to him it is wisdom. Your post was quite uninformative, so apparently the same holds true for you. It takes more than a sticker pack and fart muffler to make one of those shit cans fast. Unfortunately, the majority of the import crowd doesn't know that. They see an ad for a header that says you'll gain 20 HP and they think it's instant. What they don't know is that it takes all of the stuff I listed (and then some) to see that performance gain of 20 HP. To someone who doesn't know, that information is helpful.

Now, this is the part where you step back into the conversation and tell me all about the guy you know that has this and that done to his Civic and how it'll beat any POS domestic that I own.

[shakran]

Originally Posted by Uncle Pony

Apparently he didn't already know, so to him it is wisdom. Your post was quite uninformative, so apparently the same holds true for you. It takes more than a sticker pack and fart muffler to make one of those shit cans fast.

Quit being a jerk. They're not shitcans. No need to go insulting someone's vehicle choice.

Now, this is the part where you step back into the conversation and tell me all about the guy you know that has this and that done to his Civic and how it'll beat any POS domestic that I own.

And this is the part where you run around acting like every import driver is a clueless wannabe racer while every domestic driver is the wise, thoughtful formula-1 driver in training.

You're trying to start yet another moronic import vs. domestic war in a thread where the guy just wanted some help bolting a part on his engine. There are plenty of car forums out there where you're free to be as big of an asshole as you want to people that don't drive your kind of car. How about cooling it on this one?

[Uncle Pony]

Originally Posted by shakran

And this is the part where you run around acting like every import driver is a clueless wannabe racer while every domestic driver is the wise, thoughtful formula-1 driver in training.

I responded to the two posters. One with helpful advice, the other with the scathing sarcasm he afforded me. I notice you didn't bother correcting him and his behavior, friend. Any reason why?

Originally Posted by shakran

You're trying to start yet another moronic import vs. domestic war in a thread where the guy just wanted some help bolting a part on his engine.

I offered him the advice he was seeking. Was there something wrong with it? Other than the disagreement with the nitrous? Sure, he could supercharge or turbo it, but that costs six times as much.

Originally Posted by shakran

How about cooling it on this one?

I respond when attacked. Care to correct waltert now? Or is it just me you have the problem with?

[shakran]

Originally Posted by Uncle Pony

I responded to the two posters. One with helpful advice, the other with the scathing sarcasm he afforded me. I notice you didn't bother correcting him and his behavior, friend. Any reason why?

Advice that's flat out wrong is not helpful. A header just might improve his performance. It's not hard to get better than the stock header on a honda. It won't be enormous gains, but he might see gains off of just a header. So since you didn't give any helpful advice when you informed him that a header wouldn't give him ANY gains, let's move on to your next claim.

I didn't correct him and his behavior because he had it right. You came in here wanting to act like this guy's car is inferior simply because it's a civic. That kind of bullshit attitude is wrongheaded, unnecessary, and it doesn't help fix the car. Frankly I thought he was being rather nice about it.

I offered him the advice he was seeking.

No, you offered a couple of possible solutions that would have made a good post, but you wrecked it all with the first paragraph.

[Uncle Pony]

Originally Posted by shakran

Advice that's flat out wrong is not helpful. A header just might improve his performance.

How much of an improvement performance wise are we talking here? Honestly? Fact is, I'm right. You won't get major performance gains on any car with just a header swap. Not even the V8s. He got maybe 5 HP, 10 at best and maybe an additional 3 ft lbs of torque. He'll do 0-60 one sixteenth of a second faster now. Care to dispute that?

Originally Posted by shakran

I didn't correct him and his behavior because he had it right.

Not on the tech part of the post (which wasn't informatitive at all), but on this:

thanks chief, your wisdom is unsurpassed in these matters

Are you his defender? Is it OK to be rude only to the people who don't sugar coat things? I guess so.

Originally Posted by shakran

You came in here wanting to act like this guy's car is inferior simply because it's a civic. That kind of bullshit attitude is wrongheaded, unnecessary, and it doesn't help fix the car.

That's not the attitude I had until someone came at me with attitude. And I did tell him how to fix it. The other guy just told him to buy a new part and check a message board. That's not a solution to his problem. Telling him what it takes to make the car faster (that is what he's trying to do afterall), how to salvage a part so he doesn't have to spend more money, and what the possible causes for his exhaust leak are is a good post. Telling him to take pictures, check a message board (which he's already doing) and buy a new part aren't helpful posts.

The fact of the matter is, it takes a lot more than a header to see performance improvement. It's that simple, and if you truly believe otherwise you fall into the category of the unknowledgeable that I was talking about. Don't get mad at me because of it.

Here, maybe this will be more to your liking.

To the original poster: since you already have the new header (and if you can afford it), replace the entire exhaust system with something aftermarket. Hedman, Dynomax, and Flowmaster are good choices. Check Summit Racing for prices. Back pressure is bad. You'll hear the uninformed talking about it like it's a good thing. What you want is an exhaust that's as free flowing as possible. Also, add a K&N filter. If you improve your air intake as well as exhaust you'll probably notice a difference. You will not notice one with just a header. The exhaust is still being restricted once it leaves the header. This restriction is what back pressure is. That is what you need to know. To find out how to do it and what parts to buy visit the other forums posted in this thread and read up. My suggestion is to use the same manufacturer as your header for the entire exhaust system.

You already have my advice for your immediate questions. The above paragraph is something to mill over for the future.

[MiSo]

use a product called PB blast to try and loosen the o2 sensor. it works much better than wd 40.

also, doing projects by yourself if the only way you'll learn how to do it.
don't get discouraged.

as for the gasket, i have no idea why the old one shouldn't fit.
it shouldn't cause any damage to the engine, but would be very annoying.
might cause a few problems where the header meets the exhaust pipe though. all the vibrations can't be good for it.

[shakran]

Originally Posted by MiSo

as for the gasket, i have no idea why the old one shouldn't fit.
it shouldn't cause any damage to the engine, but would be very annoying.
might cause a few problems where the header meets the exhaust pipe though. all the vibrations can't be good for it.

It depends. Unless I missed something the OP still hasn't specified if it's the gasket between the header and the engine or the gasket between the header and the exhaust. If it's the former, then it can damage the engine because cool air can get in when you shut it off. Good way to bend valves due to rapid temp. changes.

and Pony, yeah, that's much better. FWIW I never said the header would turn his car into a monster at the strip. I said it might improve performance a little. As for how much, I have no idea because I don't know a) what header he got and b) which model of civic he has. But if you go from the stock header, which is usually 4-1, and you move to one that merges the exhaust more efficiently (4-2-1) (and even here it's up in the air depending on how that 4-2-1 is designed), then you're gonna help things out even if you don't replace the rest of the exhaust. But also notice that way up there somewhere I recommended that he replace the exhaust.

Where I objected to your post is that you said it wasn't going to help him. That's an absolute statement. No help. At all.

You also have to keep in mind that on a civic even a few more lb/ft of torque is going to be more noticible than on whatever big-engined car you drive, since honda and torque aren't words usually used in the same sentence. . .

[Borla]

Food for thought........the car is basically 10 years old. Unless the rest of the exhaust has been replaced recently, it's likely to have a fair amount of build-up in the cat and the muffler........the header is even less likely to have a positive effect on performance if there is added restriction further down the line.

Imagine it this way.....you are pumping gas into a gas can, using a funnel. The pump can pump faster than the narrow end of the funnel can pour into the can. What do you do if you want to be able to fill the can faster? Make the top of the funnel bigger? No, because the narrow part of the funnel still isn't going to flow any faster. You have to widen the narrowest part first to see any real improvement. The same principle applies to air flow from your engine through your exhaust. You have to improve the most restricted places to see improvement. You can put a huge 4" tip on the exhaust, but if the pipe further up between the muffler and cat is only 2", it was a waste. You can put a higher flowing header in, but again, if there is restriction downstream, you are still not going to see much difference. ESPECIALLY if the install causes you to have an exhaust leak somewhere, like because there is no exhaust gasket. Aside from the mention of warping valves, having a severe exhaust leak (like what would occur from having all kinds of air rushing in where a gasket should be), could cause your engine to run very lean (i.e. not enough gas for the amount of fuel it is mixing into the combustion chambers). If you run too lean for too long, you are going to put a hole in a piston, or comparable severe damage can occur. I wouldn't drive the car around much with the current issue. Worst case I'd return to the old manifold, with a gasket, then do research to be SURE the header is appropriate, the gasket will fit, and (for any real benefit) replace the rest of the exhaust too.

Just my $.02.

[waltert]

uncle pony, I thought the comment you made was an ignorant one, and I actually revised my reply several times because I didnt want to say what I actually thought of that statement.

O2 sensors have a limited service life, and chances are that since its siezed in his exhaust manifold and cannot be removed, it probably has never been replaced.

he would probably see an improvement in fuel economy and emissions by replacing the part. There was a legitimate thought process to why I was reccomending its replacement.

the fact is, he's not very skilled at descibing his problem (you guys seem to be shooting in the dark as to what it might be), and therefore, its hard to help. if we got pictures of what he thought the problem was, a definitive answer could be given as to what needs to be done to remedy the problem.

honestly, it sounds like he didnt bolt it together properly if he's getting all of this clanking/rattling, etc. I dont know him, so I cant tell you whether or not he knows what he's doing.

this header may not bolt up to the stock exhaust, pictures would really let us in on whats going on.

I dont know what kind of header he has, so I cant go look up the details for him. Im going to guess that he has an automatic transmission because of the phrase "whenever my car changes gear"

I dont know anyone with a fast civic, though I saw one at the track that knocked my socks off, he pulled an 12 second run on street tires.

and I've got a friend with an integra that has a best run of 11.7 at the track (on slicks) it will probably beat any car you own that cant run under 12 seconds in the 1/4 mile. but, of course, if your car's faster, its faster, I dont care if it was made in your back yard, or in your garage, in japan, or made in space to ensure that the welds were perfect.

and as for the exhaust not needing backpressure, some people will take that to mean run the biggest diameter exhaust they can fit. you want the smallest diameter tubing with mandrel bends and non-restrictive mufflers that you can run that wont choke your horsepower in the upper RPM range.

I pointed the guy to honda-tech because there are alot of other things that he can learn on the website. although there is alot to sort through, you can pick up some good information there.

I wasnt trying to start a pissing contest with my reply, I just dont think that statements like that one in particular are doing anybody any good.

[Uncle Pony]

Originally Posted by shakran

It depends. Unless I missed something the OP still hasn't specified if it's the gasket between the header and the engine or the gasket between the header and the exhaust.

From what I gathered from his post it's the gasket between the header and exhaust.

well whenever i hit the gas or whenever my car changes gear it vibrates clanks and rattles at the joint where my header and exaust pipe meet.

Sounds more like loose bolts than a gasket problem, but he said the gasket didn't fit so I went from there. It sounds to me like the collector is bigger than the exhaust, which is why the gasket won't fit. Since it's bigger the bolts also don't line up corrctly for a secure fit, which would cause the clanking and rattling.

Originally Posted by waltert

uncle pony, I thought the comment you made was an ignorant one, and I actually revised my reply several times because I didnt want to say what I actually thought of that statement.

It wasn't ignorant. If he wants performance gains he has to do more than add a header. The rest was helpful and a direct answer to his questions. Am I wrong here? If so, please feel free to explain it to me.

Originally Posted by waltert

O2 sensors have a limited service life, and chances are that since its siezed in his exhaust manifold and cannot be removed, it probably has never been replaced.

An O2 sensor costs, what, something like $40 or more? Maybe the guy didn't have the money for a new one. He didn't ask where he could buy one, he asked how to get the old one out. You failed to even offer a suggestion to his question. Instead you criticized my advice and told him to buy a new part. As far as a limited service life, I'll agree to that. Unfortunately the same applies to EGR valves, PCV valves, cats. . . . well, basically the whole emissions system. The car's 9 years old already, and chances are that none of that other stuff's been replaced either. He'll notice zero performance gains (fuel economy, hp, torque, etc) by replacing an O2 sensor. The rest of the old system would stll hinder him. He may as well salvage the part and save the money if he can.

Originally Posted by waltert

honestly, it sounds like he didnt bolt it together properly if he's getting all of this clanking/rattling, etc. I dont know him, so I cant tell you whether or not he knows what he's doing.

I agree, and I explained why.

Originally Posted by waltert

and I've got a friend with an integra that has a best run of 11.7 at the track (on slicks) it will probably beat any car you own that cant run under 12 seconds in the 1/4 mile. but, of course, if your car's faster, its faster, I dont care if it was made in your back yard, or in your garage, in japan, or made in space to ensure that the welds were perfect.

LOL. That's the spirit! Fact is, I think this guy's 96 Civic would beat my Ford Explorer. I sold out to yuppie society and traded my Mustang off for a camper this spring.

Originally Posted by waltert

I pointed the guy to honda-tech because there are alot of other things that he can learn on the website. although there is alot to sort through, you can pick up some good information there.

True, but it doesn't solve his immediate problem that needs fixed yesterday. The forums are a great source for researching your next mod though.

Originally Posted by waltert

I wasnt trying to start a pissing contest with my reply, I just dont think that statements like that one in particular are doing anybody any good.

OK. I'll let it drop then. I've said my peace.

[Rigor]

Well reading hte responses are kinda funny, some more helpful then others... thanks for those.

Im just a poor college student that cant afford a bad ass domestic car right now. My my dream is a Fort GT, maybe in 10 years? The headers were given to me for free so i was like "what the heck" why not? I admit i know nothing about cars, but i looked up install instructions on hte internet and found them to be simple enough for me to do on my own, apparently not.

The gasket is between the exaust and the new headers, actually the second part of the headers. My problem was that the new headers pipe stuck out so much that i couldnt get the springy bolt thingys to fit, the space was to wide.

I think ill jack my car up again tomm and see if I can get it to fit, if not, oh well.

Thanks ofr hte help.

[shakran]

Originally Posted by Rigor

Well reading hte responses are kinda funny, some more helpful then others... thanks for those.

Im just a poor college student that cant afford a bad ass domestic car right now. My my dream is a Fort GT, maybe in 10 years? The headers were given to me for free so i was like "what the heck" why not? I admit i know nothing about cars, but i looked up install instructions on hte internet and found them to be simple enough for me to do on my own, apparently not.

The gasket is between the exaust and the new headers, actually the second part of the headers. My problem was that the new headers pipe stuck out so much that i couldnt get the springy bolt thingys to fit, the space was to wide.

I think ill jack my car up again tomm and see if I can get it to fit, if not, oh well.

Thanks ofr hte help.

Yeah, sounds like you'll probably need to do a custom exhaust in order to accomodate the different size on the header. The good news is that you can usually get your current exhaust shortened and rewelded at a muffler shop for around 80 bucks.