ubertuber

So Jack's dad is alive after they get off the island?

If that was truly a "flash-forward", clearly a lot of stuff is going to go down.

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guthmund

I noticed that as well.

And who's funeral did Jack go to? When he was talking to Kate, I assumed it was Sawyer's, but then she told Jack that "he" would be waiting.

Definitely a noodle scratcher....and one fine season ender, for the most part. Going to have watch that one again, I think.

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ubertuber

Maybe it was Ben's funeral.

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radioguy

could jack and kate be brother/sister and the funeral was a late one for his father???

ubertuber

Radioguy:

After the viewing, at the hospital Jack tells the new chief of surgery to go get his Dad and see who is more drunk. If that was Jack's father in the casket, he may be pickled, but I doubt he's drunk.

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ratbastid

Folks, this was an AMAZING episode.

Hurley bailing down out of the trees in Papa Roger's minibus was just BEAUTIFUL.

The whole thing down in the Looking Glass (whose logo is a Dharma symbol with a bunny in the middle?) was totally intense and amazing--a LOST scene in its finest form. Charlie got a GREAT episode to go out on. We'll see him again in flashbacks, of course, but I know I'll miss him.

warrrreagl

Hey, if the guy with the HARPOON in his chest survived, there's still lots of hope for Charlie. And after Naomi's miraculous recovery from a branch through the chest, what's a little pocketknife in the back?

Looking Glass? Rabbit? Hmmmm....

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Frosstbyte

Mikhail is a very strange and unique little character. I think his ability to escape death is not something that anyone could really rely on, particularly Charlie. He's escaped two events that are pretty certainly seemed fatal. Though, I have to say, the instant I saw Mikhail go down in this one, I instantly thought of the scene from Army of Darkness where Ash says, "It's a trick. Get an ax." I think even the island would have a hard time trying to put that back together.

Overall, that was one hell of an episode. I'd certainly echo what RB said and here's to Charlie. I'm not TOTALLY sure why he picked that end, since I'm not sure it's what any of us envisioned when Desmond first prophesized his end, particularly with the realization that Naomi wasn't who she said she was, but I suppose he believes enough in the need to save Claire and Aaron that he was willing to make that sacrifice. Long hard wait ahead of us until next season. See you all then.

Troublebot

My current theory (and it could change in about twenty minutes) is that the "he" Kate is talking about is her young son. I'm putting the "flash forwards" at about 2010, when the show will end. The kid would be about six, right? (Plane crashes in 2004. Kate comes home, pregnant, around New Years of 2005. Sounds about right.)

My best hunch is that it was Sawyer in the casket. A dumpy funeral home in a bad part of town and nobody at the funeral. Jack is asked if he is friend or family and he says "neither", does that fit anyone else? (However, I really like the idea that it's Ben in the casket. Can you imagine him living in LA?)

The Jack's Dad thing is really giving me the heebie-jeebie's. Doesn't the body have to be embalmed to travel via commercial airline? Everytime we're seen him on the island, he's dressed in a suit. The whole "Jack's dad is now alive" thing has me leaning toward rip in the fabric of time/space, alternate universe theory, but that doesn't explain the weird healing properties of the island. Guess I'm just confused and geeked out. Good finale!

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yellowmac

I find it hard to rationalize Jack's dad actually being alive. I think it's more likely that Jack is talking about his dad like his is alive because Jack is in an irrational state of mind from not having his painkillers or from being drunk. Perhaps the new chief of surgery and others who were listening to him didn't want to correct him because they didn't want to exacerbate his rage. I just simply didn't get the sense from watching the episode last night that Jack's dad was alive.

Assuming that the "flash-forward" is a definite course of events, then Ben is a liar, but we already knew that. He told Jack that everyone on the island would die if contact to the boat was made, but that can't possibly be true. Claire and the baby are gonna get in the helicopter, this has to happen according to Desmond's vision.

Now I'm wondering if everything in the "flash-forward" episode will definitely happen (fate/destiny) or if there are events that can occur on the island yet that will change what happens in the future (free will).

And agreed, Mikhail is pretty hard-core. How do you survive both a sonic pulse and a spear to the chest, and still have the strength to swim out (in full scuba gear) and take out Charlie?? He's probably still alive.

fresnelly

I think Mikhail is becoming a kind of Anti-Locke, embodying the uh, Dark Side of the Island.

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guthmund

If it was a Kate-spawn, she reacted a bit weird to the idea of her going to the funeral, didn't she? If it was Sawyer (which, like I said, was my first guess) then who is the "he" she uses as an excuse to leave?

I don't know what the hell is going on....time to hit the forums and see what everybody else thinks, eh?

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ubertuber

What about Michael?

That didn't really seem like a Sawyer church, if you know what I mean.

I understand the realities of filming schedules, but isn't it a little strange that in a couple of months of show-time, Walt looks to be years older? And was he with John when they rejoined the other survivors?

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warrrreagl

My brilliant bride pointed this out last night: When Locke had the gun on Jack and Jack was connecting to the boat, Locke said something to the effect of, "Jack, you weren't supposed to do that." As if Locke was shown by Walt how the present was supposed to play out and Jack fucked it up somehow.

Also, we were part of the 600 million Tivo owners who tried to freeze-frame on the newspaper article to see whose funeral it was, but we couldn't do it. We also tried to freeze on Kate's license plate at the end and couldn't make it out, although other websites are reporting it said LOKO695 (I don't know how in the hell they got that).

If you don't feel like bearing with me anymore, then skip to the next post. Otherwise, here I go off the deep end. I've heard the show's creators refer to Stephen King's inspiration before in previous interviews, and this episode reminded me of Kingdom Hospital. If you didn't see all of that (or forgot it), here's what I'm talking about.

Kingdom Hospital explored the space-time continuum paradox from the opposite viewpoint from normal. For example, in every sci-fi story where people alter space-time, they always fuck it up so that they return to a new present that is in terrible shape because of their thoughtlessness. However, Kingdom Hospital gave us a present time that was already seriously fucked up and bizarre and the show's characters went back in time to "set things right." They then returned to a new present that was perfectly normal and happy.

I now have no idea where I was going with that, but I don't feel like hitting delete after all that effort. My brain hurts.

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fresnelly

I say it was Locke's funeral.

Locke's health is connected to the Island, so his death on the mainland represents a true and final break of that connection. Future Jack desparately wants to re-establish that connection to fix things, so that's why Locke's death is so devestating. The door has been closed for good and the magic is gone. He blames himself for not heeding Locke's warning at the Radio Tower.

Also, Locke is now a rogue lostie and killer with his own agenda, which would explain why nobody would go to his funeral. Furthermore, in the future it appears that Kate and the others have put the island behind them so they would naturally avoid Locke's potent connection.

EDIT:

Perhaps I'm overthinking it. Future Jack wants to go back to the island and Lock didn't want to leave the island but all the others didn't. The rest are avoiding the drunk and and kook so nobody but Jack at Locke's funeral.

It's going to be a long summer.

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ubertuber

fresnelly, if you are correct, I suppose a substantial part of the next 3 seasons could deal with the Losties after rescue. I had never considered that possibility.

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MPower

I dont think Locke would leave the island. He would have stayed.
That casket looked really small to me, I think it was a child in it.

fresnelly

Only in the future tense I bet, though there could be a prolonged "on-the-boat" storyline. There's still plenty of Island/Others lore to play out, and I'm hoping they're going to toy with alternate futures given how miserable Jack becomes.

Are we missing anyone's backstory? If not, I think we're going to get more flashforwards woven through as a convention instead. It could be a bit like Momento.

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Troublebot

I'm thinking that next season the flashbacks will be between the time the Losties left the island and whatever "now" we're dealing with. When Jack goes to convince Hurley to go back to the island, we'll see what Hurley's been up to since he left. Just a guess.

I'm hoping Locke didn't leave the island. Once Jack gets his folks together and finds the island, I'm looking forward to seeing what's been going on there.

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guthmund

Here's a link to the best picture I've seen so far of the obituary.

Kingdom Hospital, eh, warr? You know, I wouldn't have made the connection myself, but now that you mention it..

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absorbentishe

I think there were several connections to other stories, I just can't think of them all. Jack in the future, he needs help. He wants to be the leader he was on the island, but never will be. Kate and most of the others have moved on, but I'm guessing it's Sawyer who she is getting back to. I have a feeling Charlie didn't die, so we'll see him again. Locke, whoa, he's serving his (or the island's) agenda.

I think it's ben's funeral He lied to everyone, his dad and mom are dead. I couldn't gather anything from that clipping. Oh well, on to more speculation.

Rekna

Why didn't Charlie just leave the room then shut the door and seal it? That really didn't make sense to me at all.

If the boat was not Penny's then why did Naomi have a picture of Desmond? And how did Ben know she wasn't with Penny. I'm wondering if Ben somehow shot down Naomi's chopper.

Also we know the future is not fixed but fate is. Desmond has been able to change the future for Charlie many times but Charlie had a fate that he had to follow. The question now is were the losties fated for the island.

Grasshopper Green

The picture of the clipping looked like "The body of Jo.." to me...so perhaps it is Locke's funeral. Jack certainly isn't a friend or relative of Locke's, and Locke doesnt have any family left (that we know of)

Rekna, I wondered the same thing about Charlie shutting the door.

So, did Mikhail blow himself up with the grenade? Is he still alive?

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gov135

Lots of mysteries for next season.

One item not mentioned - was I the only one sorry to see Tom knocked off? I thought the character of Tom was one of the best in the show - he had a inner loyalty conflict that made him one of the more facinating 'others'.

With some of Ben's main compatriots being axed, I think we'll see a shift from the others being the main threat. If that is the case, it will be interesting to see how Ben and the others interact with the castaways.

warrrreagl

If it were any other mortal on the earth, I'd say he'd float to the top like an M-80'd fish, but this is the guy who pulled the pin right after being HARPOONED in the chest. Sheesh.

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Rekna

I was sad to see Tom shot. I felt that he had good qualities and was very loyal but was loyal to the wrong person.

span2

What was up with Kate's face at the end? I didn't even recognize her.

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Jove

I think she was wearing make up. And she was quite hittable.

Season 4 starts January 2008, so we can bust out as many theories as possible until then.

This is probably the best season finale of Lost ever.

ratbastid

Definitely. It was satisfying in a way neither of the last two season finales were.

fresnelly

Yeah, it's like on Survivor when you see the contestants at the reunion so chubby and coiffed that you barely recognize them.

Oddly enough, I found Future-Kate less attractive.

If I may engage in some more wild speculation , I think with the Others now diminished and a new organization being introduced via the boat (possibly the Others' parent corporation) I think the Lost will assume the role of protecting the island, or at least competing for its secrets.

What's the name of the latin Other who recruited young Ben in to the Hostiles? I know him only as the photographer from Suddenly Susan. I suspect he has a direct line back to the mainland company (Mittleso Foundation - the reshaped Hanso Foundation) and his role will become dominant as Ben begins to loses face.

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Mondak

I agree with the outside / inside argument. One other thought though: I would think the water would only rise to the level of the porthole. Couldn't Desmond swim around with the scuba gear and then hand it to Charlie? I have to think there was a way to get him out of there. I can fit through the dog door at my house that is a hell of a lot smaller than that portal was.

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Reese

If the room was really sealed, the water would only rise to the porthole, it's possible that the air was pushed into another, inaccessible part of the room.

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radioguy

of course charlie could have gotten out, but he knew that if he survived, then claire and the baby wouldn't. it's that simple. i don't think that we can analyze why he didn't leave. he didn't have a choice. if he survived, they wouldn't get off the island. charlie was ready to make the ultimate sacrifice of giving his life for the safety of the others he loves

The_Jazz

The water acted correctly; it would have filled the room and the air would have just been compressed. There would have been a small pocket of air left somewhere, but with 40' (?) of water above, it would have come rushing in, although at a much higher rate than on the show. I'll forgive that kind of indiscretion, though. Remember, air compresses; water doesn't.

Could he have fit through the porthole? Possibly. Could Desmond gotten there with scuba equipment in time? Probably not.

I think that the point is that Charlie just sort of gave up when his fate reached him. He didn't fight it; he embraced it. Sort of fitting after his drug struggle.

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Tamerlain

I thought the season finale was great. I can't remember when I figured out we were watching the present, but I had a feeling that something was wrong throughout the whole episode. It just seemed weird that Jack was an addict and that he was going to a funeral for someone unknown to us. And I don't think it's Locke, as someone previously said. The name starts with "Jo" but there's also "_antham" after that. I'll be happy to be surprised when the show starts up again, so I won't be looking up every character's name in an effort to discover if it's someone we already know. However, it could be someone high up from the ship that Jack radios. If he wants to get back to the island then he would be upset that someone who knows where it is is now dead.

I figure that Charlie must have believed that if he lived then Claire would not be saved. It's the only explanation given the size of the porthole that's in the background when we see him floating in the room. There's no way that he couldn't swim through that thing, it's enormous.

I don't even want to think about the implications for the next few seasons now that we've seen that the Lost get off the island. I don't think I'll enjoy watching 2-3 seasons of island-episodes when we know they get off; conversely, I'm not sure how I feel about watching episodes of Jack recruiting people to try to get back to the island. I'll just be waiting patiently till next season, hoping it doesn't disappoint.

-Tamerlain

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warrrreagl

DO they? Grancey sez we can only safely surmise that Jack and Kate get off. Maybe they were the only ones. The rest might have either been killed or refused to leave.

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Tamerlain

Hm, that's an interesting thought...

-Tamerlain

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guthmund

Saw this on Digg and thought I'd post it here for general consumption.

It's a compilation of all the events surrounding the plane crash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ierynZLSLHk

Over 9 minutes and very well done, in my opinion.

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absorbentishe

Wow, that was incredible! I'll watch that again.

Mondak

Well done. Good find guthmund

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)