Micheal Jackson is going down - this is a very very good thing.
 

We are currently awash in the news of Michael Jackson's legal situation. The stories are out there now and changing by the hour. So far there's yesterday's initiated search of his home and land and today we hear there is a warrant for his arrest. All this is the outcome of a specific allegation made against him by a child.

We know this. What I am interested in is the feeling of satisfaction you may have over the news. Personally, I feel very good about this. The man who, in my opinion, admitted his pedophilic predation on British TV - replayed in the US - months ago is now being hunted down by the law.

Perhaps there are some of you who feel differently about this. Of course, one is presumed innocent by the law, etc. But I have seen enough of this to simply acknowledge that it gives me a very good feeling to see what is happening as a result of the way this guy lived his life for years and years.

I feel good too Art...Money can buy you out of things for awhile...I'm thinking about the 25 million dollar settlement to the 13 year old awhile back. Anyway, I think it is high time something be done about it. There is no reason for a 42 year old "manchild" to be sleeping with a minor. Even if he truly does have the mindset of a child, it is still not acceptable. The guy obviously has bigtime problems, which with any luck will be solved by law enforcement. The thought of a sexual predator being brought to justice brings me joy.

He'll get off again. Money talks, and just like last time he'll wave some around....



They should throw him into a regular prison. Not the pansy Beverly Hills prison. He wouldn't last a day.

I disagree. I'm sure they'd keep his ass alive for a very, very long time.

He's gonna make a real pretty bitch for "Spike" once he gets packed upriver.

I had a feeling this was on the way. The guy has some serious screws loose. Lets say for the sake of argument that he never molested any children. Even so, the man makes his children wear masks for christs sake, he is afraid of the sun, he spends his whole day acting like a child. At the very least he is incredibly strange.

Now lets say for the sake of argument that he is guilty, get him away from the kids and toss his ass in jail. It frightens me that he was able to buy himself out of it once before.
That documentary on him was one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen. We've got so many damn trials now I can't keep track of them all. :D

-Kobe Bryant
-Martha Stewart
-That Elizabeth Smart Kidnapper
-The DC Snipers
-Scott Perterson
-Wacko Jacko

Yikes.

I don't feel good about this. Only because it would help confirm all the rumors and all the sick things that he was said to have done. It also is sad to see such a gifted man be so tragically tainted. If he did commit the crimes, then I am glad he is finally going to have to pay for it... Does it make me happy or feel good? No. Poor kids, poor fans, poor friends and family... I don't see anything to feel good about.

Well, assuming he is guilty (which wouldn't surprise me in the least), I hope he gets what's coming to him. He needs to learn serious concequences to his actions instead of just buying his way out of them. Even if it is a very large sum of money, it's not punishment enough for doing indecent things with minors who aren't even through puberty yet.

Can someone refresh my memory as to what he said on British TV regarding this situation?

he bought himself out of it before... will he do it again... i really hope not...

hes a sicko... hes molested kids before. gotten away with it... and he will keep molesting until he gets put away....

He said he sleeps in the same bed as children. Then he says "It's very sweet, I tuck them in and we sleep. it's not sexual."

I think he also said he took baths with this one kid that was in the documentary.

I cannot trust anything that I can not verify.

Michael Jackson may indeed be outside the law, he may be outside morality (which is more important to me by far), however, I don't know the man, and no one I know does either. Hence I can not make a decision about him.

I'll have to leave it to a judge and/or jury to figure it out. If he is indeed in the wrong, he will be punished, if not, then he will be released. Either way, its about time all of the hype in the press has been brought to a closing with this, although it does mean dealing with a media feeding frenzy for the next little while.

From what MJ has said, it seems that he may be legally wrong, but perhaps not morally. It does not sound like there is any abuse going on of any kind, and this is the point where the law differs from the morality of it.

I am age-blind, Michael Jackson is still a kid at heart due to his childhood with bad parents, and I really do feel sorry for the pain that the man has been forced to endure. I can only hope that whatever happens after this is just.

Hence, Im sorry art, but for the first time I'm forced to disagree with you, it may not be a good thing. No one deserves to be abused (and I mean the children in this case, what happened to MJ can't be undone so theres no point in trying to fix that anymore), but if there really isnt any abuse and its in the best interests of all involved, it still is against the law, hence the gap between Law and Morality.

I can only hope for a solution that works for all, but due to the justice system I know all I have to look forward to is constant media attention (all of it biased one way or another) and a lot of pain and distress for everyone involved (except the lawyers, who will wind up very rich from these proceedings).

The only blinking warning light in my mind comes from the fact that he is currently shooting video in Las Vegas for his new album. The last time he was investigated, he was also filming for a new album. I'd hate to think this was carefully orchestrated to draw attention to his latest release.

The reason I posted this is because it is rare to the point of near singularity for me to "feel good" about something with such negative implications associated with it.
That's why it moved me to ask how it makes y'all feel.

Thanks for the feedback - all of it. Keep it coming if you are moved to do so. It looks as though this will be an extended story...

Whether or not he is guilty.
He has lost it all now...no company is going to get near him within a mile of him
too much history, too many repeats...his issues have made him too big a risk.

And about time...his music has gone downhill...and I'm tired of the circus around his life.
He has become a joke.

Yeah, he's pretty fucked. He deserves it though, fucker..

If he goes to prison, i'd almost feel sorry for him....almost

the guy needs to be in an insane asylum. he's definetly got issues and needs to be seperated from people that further support his weird nature. it's ok to be ecentric but there is definetly a line.

Here is this afternoon's early update:
..................................................
Posted on Wed, Nov. 19, 2003

Sources: Boy's allegations sparked raid

By JOHN F. MORRISON
morrisj@phillynews.com

'IT'S A BEAUTIFUL thing," Michael Jackson once said.

Cuddling in bed with young boys, he meant.

Nothing perverted about it. Never mind that he was said to have settled for millions of dollars a 1993 lawsuit by a 13-year-old California boy who described in graphic detail sexual encounters with the superstar.

The 45-year-old man has just never grown up, say friends and advisers.

Now the boy-man might be in real trouble.

Investigators swarmed over his amusement-park-like Neverland Ranch near Santa Barbara, Calif., yesterday, searching for evidence in a possible criminal case.

They even brought along a portable toilet, indicating they intended to stay a while.

Sources said the raid was the result of allegations brought against Jackson by a 12-year-old Los Angeles boy.

A source told the TV program "Extra!" that the boy recently approached a Los Angeles law firm and claimed inappropriate conduct by the superstar.

L.A. lawyer Larry R. Feldman, who represented the 14-year-old in the 1993 suit against Jackson, said he could not "confirm or deny" that he was representing anyone in a similar action.

Chris Pappas, of the Santa Barbara County District Attorney's Office, would say only that the raid had been part of an "ongoing criminal investigation."

Sixty to 70 officers from the Santa Barbara County D.A.'s and sheriff's offices arrived in what was described as a "convoy" about 8:30 a.m. PST.

With them came a forensics- lab van and an ambulance. The ambulance left shortly thereafter, unoccupied.

Detectives were expected to be gathering evidence into the night. The district attorney and sheriff planned to provide more details today.

Neither Jackson nor his three young children were home at the time of the search. Jackson has been in Las Vegas for three weeks making a video.

His spokesman, Stuart Backerman, said he could not comment on the raid because he lacked information about it.

"We're unaware of what the substance of this matter is," Backerman told CNN. He said the raid came as a complete surprise.

Jackson denounced media coverage of the spectacle in a statement Backerman released to the Associated Press:

"I've seen lawyers who don't represent me and spokespeople who do not know me speaking for me. These characters always seem to surface with dreadful allegations just as another project, an album, a video, is being released."

Epic Records yesterday released "Number Ones," a greatest-hits collection featuring Jackson's new single, "One More Chance."

Whether the talented singer-songwriter-dancer will get one more chance is debatable. His career already has been foundering since revelations of his proclivity for boys was dissected in the media.

In Las Vegas, a Jackson family spokesman briefly talked with reporters outside a recording studio.

"The family stands behind Michael," spokesman Steve Manning said. "He's holding up."

Rabbi Shumley Boteach, Jackson's spiritual adviser, said he had counseled the entertainer to behave more responsibly.

"I have sent him many messages," the rabbi told Fox News. "We're not just talking about the fall of a business. We're talking about the fall of a human being.

"He's not a child; he's an adult, and he has to accept" the consequences of his actions, Boteach said.

Jackson has made no secret of his fondness for boys but has vigorously denied having had any sexual contact with them.

He said in a British TV interview in February that he enjoyed snuggling in bed with 12- and 13-year-olds.

"Why can't you share a bed?" he asked. "The most loving thing to do is to share your bed with someone. It's a beautiful thing. It's very right; it's very loving. Because what's wrong with sharing a love?"

Among his bed partners have been the Culkin brothers, Macaulay (of "Home Alone" fame), and Kieran, also an actor.

"When you say 'bed,' you're thinking sexual," Jackson said during the February interview. "It's not sexual. We're going to sleep. I tuck them in and I put a little music on, and when it's story time, I read a book.

"We go to sleep with the fire on and I give them hot milk and cookies. It's very charming and very sweet.

"I am Peter Pan. He represents youth, childhood, never growing up, magic, flying."

Jackson once said he was so fond of children that he would kill himself if there were no kids in the world.

His ranch, situated in the Santa Ynez Valley outside Santa Barbara, is itself a playland for kids, containing a Ferris wheel, amusement rides and other fun things for children.

But Jackson caused an outcry last November by dangling his youngest child, Prince Michael II, whom he reportedly calls "Blanket," from a hotel window in Germany.

The child's face was covered with a towel. In public, Jackson has each of his three children covered in masks or veils.

Magician Uri Geller, a friend of Jackson's who used to bend spoons for a living, told Fox News that if the allegations against Jackson were of a sexual nature, he couldn't believe they were true.

"I'm a father myself and I would never associate myself with anyone who would do anything with a child," Geller said.

He described Jackson as "gullible, innocent, maybe a little confused...but I would never believe he would sexually abuse a child."

Famed lawyer Johnnie Cochran represented Jackson in the 1993 case and said at the time of the settlement a year later that it was in no way an admission of guilt.

Another controversial issue involving Jackson is his connection with Hollywood private investigator Anthony Pellicano, who began serving a federal prison sentence Monday for possessing illegal explosives.

Pellicano, 59, worked for Jackson as a spokesman and security consultant during the 1993 case.

The private eye is also being investigated about whether he secretly taped conversations of celebrities and their lawyers.

Jackson's new song, "One More Chance," has been available at radio stations for the past few weeks, but has gotten scant airplay. It has peaked Billboard's Hot R&B/Hip-Hop chart at No. 45.

The song was written by R. Kelly, who himself is charged in Chicago with 21 counts of child pornography.

Jackson's last studio album, "Invincible," sold about 2 million copies in the United States - great for most artists, especially veteran stars, but only so-so for the man who bills himself as the "King of Pop."

An upcoming CBS special might boost sales of the new album. A representative for the network refused to speculate whether it would shelve the special due to the new developments.

.....

As I type this, he is said to be "in Vegas negotiating his surrender"
(CNN)

He did have an atrocious childhood, but so did any number of other citizens, with fewer resources, and you don't (for the most part) see them running around acting childish and molesting kids. If he made any sort of effort to rehabilitate himself, I could grant him the "abusive past" defense, but he just keeps getting weirder and the allegations keep coming. Whatever happened to him, HE is the one who chose how to react to it, and it seems that by and large his reaction has been to escape from reality and responsibility. He has the money to afford therapy, I can only assume he doesn't want help or is so far gone mentally that he really ought to be committed. Whether or not his actions are inappropriately (i.e., sexually) motivated, they are clearly being perceived as inappropriate by some of the objects of his...er...attentions. His past is sad, but there's no reason to compound the sadness by spreading it to another generation of children just because he's in too much emotional pain/denial to grow up and act like an adult.

its a phychological defense to regress like that to childhood, and that is probalby why he hasnt "grown up" or sought therapy.

The best solution for everyone would have been to have MJ live at an asylum, but not be confined there (i.e. the asylum is his house, but he can still go out and do what he does otherwise).
There, no more kids coming home, and everyone is still able to live happily.

Again, its too late for all this...

Ugh.... that seriously creeps me out. I can't believe I don't remember him saying that. Just because something isn't sexual doesn't mean it's not still creepy.

I don't understand Micheal Jackson, and I don't try to. I have a feeling he's been up to all the things we think he has. I sure hope the courts rule fairly on him, not taking into account money or anything stupid the defense thinks up.

3 Million Dallrs Bail!!!
 

Not trying to take away from Art's post but need to add this - Bail was just set at $3 million dollars - I think they're taking it seriously this time. This probably should have been done years ago.

I always thought there was someting wrong w/ mj and the way he handled kids. they think he molested them (there are several counts).

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...pstory/2233145

I have a question - can you use an insanity defense when charged in a case like this? Meaning, could he be sentenced to a mental health facility instead of prison (in the event of a trial and conviction)?

Mark Geragos has become the attorney of choice for every high profile scum-bag case in California apparently. They are currently "negotiating with Mr Jackson for his surreneder" - why in hell are they negotiating - go get the asshole and drag him back to California in irons - he's damn sure no better than anyone else and should'nt be treated like he is - Take his passport and lock his ass up untill the 3 mil in cash shows up.

Do you have kids of your own? Have you ever slept with them? Get your mind out of the gutter, and this quote can make a lot of sense. Thats all I have to say about that.

Personally, I do not see him as a giant pedofile. If I had a kid that was molested.. why the FUCK would I settle? Please explain this to me.. how does money help here? The only thing I'd want is to see that person pay for what they did in Jail. Since the last "case," if that is what you wish to call it, ended with money and no one in jail and what not.. something just sounds a bit fishy to me.

I understand that there are a lot of issues behind all of this.. I prefer to keep an open mind about this. Some puzzle pieces just don't seem to belong to this one.. and without a complete puzzle.. I simply cannot read the facts.

True, but are these his own kids, or somebody else's? How old are his own children?

...and for the record, I still think it would be creepy to sleep with your own children if they were 12 or 13.

MJ a master of the media, guilty or not and my own feelings about him and the crimes that he is accused of he has enough
money to buy himself out of this little prob. once again.

True, but where are their parents then, if this is going on, surely their parents know about it.

When I moved to the states from Canada with my dad fresh from my parents divorce, I stayed in a one bedroom with my dad, we slept in the same bed, there is nothing wrong with it.

What he has admitted is not really a big deal, its that people suspect that there is more beneath the surface, which there may or may not be - its all conjecture.

Gak, they werent his kids...

I'm going to be in the minority and say that I agree with numist and gakface.

I'm not saying he doesn't have issues - he certainly does. But whether he's a child molester, I don't know. There are plenty of things that seem fishy on both ends of the argument, and I do firmly believe in someone's innocence before they are proven guilty. As far as I'm aware, there is no proof of guilt yet, so I'm not about to metaphorically hang this person just because he's mentally ill and doesn't understand how the world views his actions.

I also agree.

I have seen no direct evidence of wrongdoing on his part. I cannot relish in the suffering of a man who may be a victim. The information that's out there is manipulated to attract attention and I can't trust it.

Given the rumors around MJ and what people have already decided about him, any kid could accuse him of sexual assault and be taken seriously. Given his fortune, there's a lot of incentive to do so also.

Regardless of who's the victim, either MJ or the kid has suffered extremely and I find it immensely depressing.

all i have to say is that as an artist he was the best...

Oh well. Serves him right.

I still like the song "Don't stop till you get enough"

Hhaha....thinking back on it, this song makes more sense now ;)

If the allegations are true, he will be institutionalised in some way. This is a good thing. If he is mentally ill, he will receive treatment. This is a good thing.

If the allegations were rigourously investigated and found false by an uncorrupted judge and/or jury I don't think society would believe it anyway. That scenario would be sad.

He should be held legally accountable only for what he has done- no more and no less. It's time for all the childish and tittering tabloid BS to end and the professionals to do their jobs. It has to end, one way or another.

Looks like MJ better invest in a white Ford Bronco...

i agree.
i doubt he´ll see jail time... even if he does deserve it.
its quite obvious to see that he is one SERIOUSLY disturbed individual, but that is just no excuse for wanting to make other little childrens lives just as screwed up.

fucked up person.
i think his money and assets should be all donated to charity, and then he should be locked away in a quiet mental institution... which another screwed up Jackson can pay for.

Well just because you haven't seen the evidence doesn't mean it's not there. If they went to his house with a warrent, then they had to have had probable cause. If they arrest him after they search his house, then they probably found something that could further incriminate him.

First of all, I do not see this as a "very, very good thing". IF it is true, it is truly tragic.

Secondly, the majority of responses here prove a point that has been bothering me lately. Congratulations for your ability to judge, try and convict a man based on accusations and past unproven charges.

By the way, is this when we are supposed to accept the media's versions of things because they wouldn't lie about this? After all, this wouldn't do anything like sell newspapers or get people to drool over the news outlets. Would it? If you listened to the news conference, it definitely seemed that the DA was having a good time making sure the media got what they wanted.

Frankly, I'll wait for the case to get into court. I will wait for a jury to hear evidence and make a decision based on facts. Until that time, I will try to avoid the hysteria that will surround this "story". Unfortunately, as a news junkie, I won't be able to totally avoid this crap.

There is a part of me that would like to stand with numist, gakface, SecretMethod70 and lordjeebus. Really, I would. But while I <b>do</b> believe in "innocent until proven guilty", and it's true that I, myself, have seen no evidence of any wrongdoing by M.J., I cannot help but assume that, given yesterdays search warrant of Neverland, and today’s issuance of a warrant for the arrest of Michael Jackson...yeah...they found something.
All I can really say is that this is such a shame, on so many levels. I believe that M.J. <i>means</i> well, but even though he may be a child at heart, he is still in possession of a man's body, and is subject to certain...urges, shall we say? If the allegations prove to be true, then damn his so-called "friends", his handlers and anyone else in his little entourage, for allowing this to escalate to this point. So, how 'bout it Liz? Howza 'bout it Liza? What do you know, and when did you know it?

Macheath:
Macheath, the tittering tabloid BS is a result of people doing their jobs. The media will continue to exploit this until something better comes along, OJ Simpsons media hype lasted over one long slow news year.

Batman976:
Yes, they needed probable cause - an insane manchild saying that he sleeps with children is enough probable cause for any police officer, I would think.
Charging him isnt necessarily up to the police, the charges (I believe) were brought by the parents of the child involved that says he was molested by MJ.
From our standpoint, it is one word against another, and we are getting it through the media, which can't be trusted.

Innocent until proven guilty.

[edit: edited out [quote=author] tags, apparently UBB Code isnt fully supported?]

There will be some spin happening on the tubes this weekend from the Home Office... tune in to see the spinmeisters at work.

IMHO, I don't have enough information but hearsay. I'm going to sit back and watch the evidence and due process go through. The media has already made up it's mind, the masses find him guilty, now let's see the courts decision.

I am angered by the constant accusations levelled against a man who has proven time and time again how much he loves all people, especially children, and who has never been convicted of any crime. Why does anyone think that, after having the childhood he went through, he would inflict any kind of similar harm on other children? This man amassed a vast fortune, and spent a very large portion of it turning his home into an amusement park that from time to time plays host to large groups of underprivileged youths. Did none of you watch the other special, where Jackson showed footage of his interviewer being about as two-faced as humanly possible? The man who interviewed Jackson continually acted as if he respected and admired his subject, then chopped up the footage he had taken and presented it out of context for the viewing pleasure of millions of bloodthirsty American and British citizens. I am disgusted to see that so many of you are among that eager group.

I'm still in shock I knew he was a sicko and did this stuff, but I didn't know he slept with the Home Alone kid. It now all makes sense why his career failed.

I have never liked this freak anyways. If he is guilty I sure hope he gets what he deserves.

Some of the judgement shown here has been quite disturbing in an evolutionary place such as this.

Bloodslick brings up a lot of facts that many havent brought up previously, his post is worth reading twice.
Maybe three times.

The media does the cut-to-fit trick often, and if you look at the bowling for columbine movie, the same thing happened (this was noted in another thread, quoted below)

Moral of the story: the media may show you what happened, but its what they omit or reorder that kills us.

For more compelling, yet non-media evidence, see this link.

Don't know if he is guilty or not, but I do believe he needs some serious mental help.
Any parent who would dangle his own child over a railing ,who knows how many stories up, is in my opinion capable of doing things normal people wouldn't consider. This would include molesting children.
Some people, possibly M.J. included, believe there is nothing wrong with Man - Child sex. So in his mind it may be innocent, while to me or you it is the perverted molestation of children.
Add to that his probable feeling of invincibility that comes with being incredibly wealthy, and you may indeed have some one who thinks they can do as they wish with impunity.
I only hope he is not guilty, because I hate to think of the damage he may have done to innocent children. If he is a child molesting perv. I hope they find irrefutable evidence, so he can't buy his way out of this mess.
If he has been doing this for years, and getting away with it there is no punishment too severe.

I cannot say he is guilty. He certainly has his issues, like everyone else, but unlike everyone else he has had the ability to keep himself sequestered by his money. How disturbing would it be if Neverland Ranch turned out to be a Hansel and Gretel house, whether conciously or subconciously. This is already a media circus, darker and dizzier, than Neverland Ranch itself.

Wee. Some others agree to holding off until we see facts (or what we believe are facts). The guy has had some serious shit in the home until he moved out and then the drama never stopped. Is it an excuse? No. But it is very, very obvious that people who experience abuse (especially molestation) as a child tend to grow up to act out some very odd fantasy life he wanted and never had. The sleeping with kids is fucking weird to me. I do not see how it is morally wrong. If he touches, okay, we have a big problem. If he has had sex with them, for all I care he deserves to die. I have little to no remorse for molestors, yet I never can forget a guy I saw years ago on a news show who had problems craving sexual encounters with kids. He hated it and asked for psyche help. He is fighting (or was at the time, I’m unsure right now) the demons as hard as he can.

As for if this makes me happy? If I find he had kiddy porn or sex with kids then I’ll be happy that a bad guy has been stopped. Very. But the sittiuation is so fucked up that I simply cannot feel happy. Bleh.

And before someone asks if I’d feel the same if it were not MJ, yes I think I would. Status means little to me.

…. If he did commit such atrocities maybe he’ll be put in prison with the guy who killed the bishop!

I'm of two minds, and in neither one of them do I think this is a good thing at all.

Either Michael is innocent, and is the victim of an overzealous media who have tried and convicted him in front of millions of armchair jurors, and ruined his life simply because he is eccentric.

Or Michael actually did do this, which means the years and years of abuse he has given to who knows how many children, could have been stopped with the first allegations a decade ago.

Either one of these scenario's makes me sick to my stomach. :(

I'm just tired of hearing about him. I've hardly paid attention to anything he's produced in his defence let alone the media's accusations. Let the police and the courts do their job. If this is all true imagine the publicity that these kids have had to endure and that will follow them all their lives. I think the media is causing almost as much harm as if this "abuse" of his is true. If it is true then they are double the harm to the children. Forget about it.

I'm so surprised how many people have deemed him guilty without one proven charge against him.

I also find it interesting that this case appeared on the same day his newest record was released. If you think that's a coincidence, you should probably wake up. I'm not saying he's guilty or he's innocent. What I AM saying is that a hell of a lot of people are against Michael Jackson without having a shred of evidence.

As for me, I'm not saying he's sane. But I haven't lived his life and experienced the things he's experiencing. So I don't think I'm in a place to judge. And I certainly don't feel good about this. If anything, I feel sad that everybody is hounding on it when there are abusers out there beating and having sex with children every day - and they go scot free because who cares if they're not famous?

Why don't we wait and see what he has to say, and what a court has to say.

Alert the media. I agree with Art, which means I agree with BoCo.

Innocent until proven guilty, but if ever a man gave the world probable cause to believe him guilty ahead of trial,, Michael would be that man. If it turns out that he is guilty of more than sleeping in the same bed and getting into the tub to bathe his children (things I have done at times), then I'd like to feel a little sorry for him, but if he does get off, it will almost certainly have to do more with lawyering than truth.

So I feel a sense of vindication that a, not necessarily dangerous sexual predator, but certainly a fellow who was going beyond the pale if finally in line for comeuppance. In fact, when I read this this morning, the exact words out of my mouth were, "'Bout fuckin' time."

Not the place to say this, but that is one slick new icon you have there, Art. Kind of spaghetti western hired gun look. Most diggable.

As I indicated, I was surprised at my reaction to this story and I thought I'd be as honest as possible about my feelings. As you know, I don't talk about my feelings much. But this one strikes deep.

Here's how it looks so far. You'll recall, I did put the statement about the legal presumption of innocence in the thread starting post. Of course, that is the correct judgement to make at this time - speaking rationally.

All of the feelings expressed here have their validity in human terms. And they amount to a fascinating reflection of our hearts and minds. Thanks for that. You did convince me to make the thread title more of an opening - even though I am sticking with my original post.

Beyond that, if I would want to clarify one thing, it would be that to those feel this way, the admissions he has already made are simply unacceptable in human terms. Some of us - me included - do not accept the proposition that a 45-year-old man can sleep with an unrelated child in any healthy way - his protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

I will wait to make my mind up about his innocence or guilt when I have more information.

In the meantime, an update from CBS has them postponing MJs' scheduled special 'til a conclusion to these allegations has been made.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031119/nyw187_1.html

G_Whiz said it all. What more can be said?

I agree with Numist on this one. It's such a tragic, tragic thing that has happened to this man who was so talented, that he slowly whittled his life away. I won't presume to say whether he's innocent or guilty, because i don't know the facts, but the way he is portrayed by the media, how we ourselves view him, as well as his often peculiar behavior, it doesn't surprise me that it has come to this.

But it also saddens me that so many of you would immediately jump to conclusions and condemn the man without evidence. a visceral feeling you get about something he said on tv, and taken somewhat out of context is pretty shoddy evidence in the first place

It is not only a good thing... it is simply the right thing !!!

Take him down! And now, because he IS a pedophile and he needs to be stopped. Why keep letting those with money and fame mess up the young and get away with it? If you say, "Well, he had a sad childhood, that's such bullshit...we've all had sad childhoods... but do we get away with defiling little kids?"

NO, send him away for life. He deserves what he gets. Period.

Big Question of all time (at least here)

WHO gets to keep the bail money?

I hope they finally put this dude behind bars, he's had so many chances to do right and has fucked them all up. Am I the only one that can see that this guy is a fuckin nut case?? Lock hiz ass up and throw away the key, Mike's days are numbered.

Simply here to debate, mind you. Now personally so many people seem ready to convict him for sleeping with children. In IRC today someone pointed out that he invites children to his house, and the parents don't know him. Something along those lines at least. Anyways, my point is this. If parents are sending their kids over to a stranger's house, why are we so ready to convict the stranger? Isn't it the parents that we should be more concerned about?

Perhaps not more concerned about, but convicting as accomplices if the allegations are proven true.
Did your parents never take you on vacations? Were you always so large that you never had to be lifted over the railing to see something? (Funny, I used to ask for it. I wonder how sick I am.) As a healthy adult, was there ever a time that you felt you could not confidently lift fifteen pounds?

Well Martha and Scott Peterson just got run off the front page. Now we will have this case shoved in our faces for the next year. It is sad that this story lead the news tonite and not the Bush trip/speech today in Britain. Can't wait to see what shows up on SNL.

santafe5000, you should have expected as much. We have had nearly four years to tire of hearing about M. Bush's antics. Don't expect to hear about him again until election campaigns truly get into full swing.

I coundn't give a rats ass if he is innocent or guilty. I don't live my life thinking about what happens or doesn't happen to him or anyone else I don't know.

The topic sure does sell alot of ad space and profit for the evil and dreaded mass media creatures who prey among us though doesn't it?.

i wonder if Fox will have a show in twenty years where the truly popular people (GWB, MJ, Martha Stewart, Paris Hilton, Eric ? Robertson) will get to beat each other up :D:D:D

while i don't see all the wrongs of the sleeping arrangements - he knew better and so the parents. unacceptable now.

Whatever gets that retarded Scott Peterson trial off the TV.

Yeah he does have some screws lose...but it's not like you can not expect it with the way his life was as a child...its was terribly messed up and he turned out messed up. I wouldn't doubt that he has done anything messed up with any kids, but who am i to point fingers at.....i'm sure none of us knows what he exactly did.....the court trial will be very interesting......well his image is now offically ruined if he did do anything sick....if he does need money though i will buy all the rights to the beatles songs for $1.....

I think he is rather messed up, but I will not judge him until I have heard some facts. This could be the crucible, it could be an extortion attempt, it could be someone wanting attention, or it could be that he's a predator and deserves to spend his time in an asylum. I do know that jail would be a death sentence, and I would not wish that on anybody.

I think it is interesting how too much fortune and fame for too long can practically destroy a man in so many ways.

It makes me not want to play the lottery. To have all that money and power, with no boundaries? With people kissing your ass your entire life? No wonder he is so screwed up. Micheal Jackson is the insane creation to the media's mad scientist experiment.

Wait, did my wording make sense? Hope so.

what freaks me out most is how we (i'm not innocent) build gods and absolutely delight in bringing them down.

I didn't bother to read all of the replies because this doesn't interest me too much, no offense.

However I want to make one point regarding him being thrown in prison: most likely, they will not insert him with the rest of the prison population- child molesters are so low on the convict ladder that if people know that a convict has comitted rape or molested a child, they will try to find any excuse to kill him at the slightest whim.

Any normal person would have been put away a long time ago.

Pedophiles generally don't go for insanity. At least not the organized ones. Their lobbying consists mainly of "what is the right to say no worth if the kid doesn't have a right to say yes?" and infiltrating the homo lobby.

To me, no matter if MJ molested those kids or not, he's admitted to doing improper things with them. I'm not one of those people who freak out over a parent sitting in a sauna with their kids, but he's been over the limit already. With other people's children.

Yeah, he had a tragic childhood. But when the circle is closing, and victim becomes perpetrator, keeping things rolling, then my "poor you" changes very quickly into a "fuck you".

There are explanations, but no excuses. And people who hurt kids lose their humanity and all privileges that comes with it, in my eyes.

We're talking about people willing to destroy a kids life for half an hour of sexual gratitude.

So, for Michael Jackson, maybe he just likes kids. 12 year-old kids. A lot of them. When they're 12. And not after that. Maybe he doesn't molest them. Who knows. But he's still doing things with them that would cause social services to take away the kids of anyone here, and rightfully so.

I will not waste any sympathy on him. He loves kids, he says. He would never hurt a child, he says. Well, him and the rest of NAMBLA.

I don't really care what happens to him. As long as he never gets to be close to another kid again.

Lets all take a trip down memory lane.


First of all, ever since the beginning all michael jackson wanted was to make the wold a better place. Hence the song, make the world a better place.

Michael Jackson from day one was a very kind and gental person, and everyone had lost sight of that because of his weirdness. His first friend was a fucking garaff, how could you not be weird? He never had any real friends, and no one here knows what that is like. The only people who were close to him beat him and broke up and were just as fucked up as him because of an insane father.

Everyone knows all this stuff happened, but what did he still want to do? He wanted to make the world a better place.

Why do we always have to assume that Michael Jackson is sitting here molesting these children when he says he sleeps in the same bed as them? Look at everything he did in the past. Look at how many countries he visited, and how many lives he saves by giving those people hope, and giving people money in other countries to they can buy food. How many people did he actually give touch in a good, positive way. How many of these people are now great and alive because of this one man. He has made the world a much better place, we just can't see it because we are sitting in our houses blinded by the starvation that happens overseas. He's seen it all first hand, which i'm sure didn't have a positive effect on who MJ is these days.

This boys family was supposedly given a plan ticket and a life over in the good olde US or A, because of michael jackson. If the reporter is right on who this family and little boy is (which they probably aren't right on who it is) he basically saved this family. If this family is just a bunch of BS, which i personally hope to god they are, they should be punnished for putting all of this on a person who has done so much good for the world.

I do think that michael jackson is living in his own little child-man world. Hell, if calling your ranch neverland doesn't point at that, i don't know what does.

I can also see that he loves children, and always has, and always has wanted to help them out. I honestly think that his intensions are good with children, and if they aren't he should be punnished accordingly, i agree with that, but i don't know if you could convince me that michael jackson, who did so much good ,would actually do something that would harm a child.

Some people on here have said things like, 'he shouldn't be harming these children by making them like him' are way off. He is who he is because of the lack of childhood he had. He's giving children a childhood dream by creating a huge theme park for them to hang out at.

I've noticed that people also assume that he was guilty because he settled the last case out of court. Do you realise what kind of an impact something like that would have on record sales? I'm sure it already had an impact on record sales, so i'm sure he just wanted to get the damn thing out of there so he could continue living his life. Whether guilty or not, anything like this will impact their record sales. This doesn't fit into the 'any publicity is good publicity' category. Since the family did settle out of court, i can only assume that it's more likely that nothing happened sexually between the child and jackson. Like someone said before me, if you had a kid, and you honestly thought that someone molested your child, you would want them behind bars, and i'm sure you would get a shit load of money aswell.

Also, how much money was it? I keep hearing different amounts on the news. What's up with that? If it was actually settled and everything with the courts (they would need to know for legal purposes) wouldn't the total amount be known? Or was there even a transfer of money? How do we even know?

Another thing i hate about the news. I saw on shitty ass ABC that there was this lady talking about michael jackson and all his weirdness. She said straight up that he molested the last kid in the case 10 years ago. She then went on to say that his face is falling off. Sure it's pretty fucked up, but isn't that the whole deal that they said before too? Supposedly his nose was falling off during a show, his 30th (or 25th) anaversary show or whatever. Well, i watched that show. His nose was not falling off. He was holding the mic from the headset closer to his face so you could hear him better.

There are so many different assumed stories and acusations against michael jackson that it makes me sick. Sure, i'll admit that the guy needs to seek some professional help somewher, but there are so many lies and stories about him that make him look so bad.

It's like the whole thing with joe demasio and mickey mantle (i think that's who it was) where they were competing to beat babe ruths home run record, and joe got bad publicity because he didn't really talk to the press, he just wanted to play ball. I think it's somewhat of the same case here with jackson.

I would be surprised if he is convicted.

I basically grew up watching michael jackson change. My mother and aunt were already into him back in the day, and we listened to him all the time. Any new records taht came out, we knew and had. I used to wear the red leather jacket he had on in thriller when i was a kid. We used to watch moonwalker on a weekly basis. Basically i feel like i know the guy on a level. I wouldn't say i 'know' him personally, but he sure doesn't seem like the type to do something that would harm a kid.

Coming from someone who has followed michael jackson from when I was about 10, i would have to assume that he is innocent, based on what i know and have heard about the guy.

However, if i had kids, i wouldn't leave them at neverland without me. Though, how many parents would, no matter who owned it. I think in a situation like that, the parents probably knew michael jackson fairly well. I think the parents just want money. 25 million dollars will make people do crazy things.

If it does end, i think it will end when the kid calls jackson. I believe in cases like this, the kid calls the accused and talks to them with authorities present. That 'should' bring the truth out.


Anyway, last note from my ramble. Jackson has done more good for this world and the starving people on it than 99.999999999% of americans/canadians/anyone with more than 1 dollar worth of assets out there. I fear that if these accusations are wrong, and jackson is not guilty, it will still harm him and the majority of the people in the world will think he's a child molester, even if he isn't. What does that do to someone's heart who has done, in his mind, nothing but good for people?

Jackson does have issues, but we do nothing but feed them.

IMHO, innocent until proven guilty.

It looks like the rumour-mill made a fortune here.. soon you're gonna hear "he eats babeis to stay healthy" and a ton of crap stuff because people WANT to belive it.

Even if he never did anything, this will haunt him and have probably scarred him for life.

Please people, be more critical to what the media says. Unless you can produce evidence, don't say "he's a pedophile". YOU don't know that.

Do you realize that everytime a child that has met MJ says "he molested me" this big media circus will take place, regardless of the truth?

I just feel sorry for him.. and don't even like/adore/love him or his music.

No to witch hunts, yes to evidence. Weird doesn't equal guilty. (http://www.wm3.org)

Edit: Fixed some spelling errors.

good job Mehoni. You just put what i had to say in like one paragraph.



I also wanted to add on the whole MJ sleeping with kids.

A lot of these kids knew him very well and hung out with him on a daily basis. A lot of them looked at him as family, as a friend, as someone they could trust. Look at what's his name from home alone. He basically had no family (from what i've heard). MJ was like family to him. If you didn't sometimes sleep in the same bed, or even on a couch or something with your parents when you were 12 or 13, you simply weren't in a family that was close in that way.

We also don't know what kind of bed this is that jackson is sleeping in. For all we know, the bed is 100 feet by 100 feet. Jackson does live in a totally different world, i think we can all agree on that. Just because he said that he has slept in the same bed as kids who weren't his own, but may view him as family, we don't know that, doesn't mean he's planning or even hoping that he would get to do anything sexual with him.

This whole sleeping in the same bed thing is blown up and only looks sick because of the way it's portrayed.

I used to have sleepovers at the karate i went to. It would be me, all the kids in my class, and the instructor who was about 35 at the time. Things like that go on all the time. We all slept in the same room, on the same wooden floor.. hehe.

That instructer did get convicted of sexual assult though, which doesn't help, but they aren't all like that!!! And it sure didn't happen during one of the sleepover things. And it wasn't on a minor! It was simply because he touched a girl near her ass and said use this muscle.

Anyway, the media is playing a damn good mind trick on a lot of people on these boards in regards to this case.

First off, I work for a large mental health company and before this I taught problem kids of all kinds, and I have to shout out loud once again, "WHAT DIP-SHIT UNDESERVING MORALY DELINQUINT PARENTS WOULD ALLOW THIER CHILD TO BE ALONE WITH JACKSON? I feel as though the parents of the abused kids should be brought up on child endangerment charges. If a parent wanted to take thier family to Neverland and hang out for a day, great. But to let your kid get into a bed with any adult outside of your most immediate family is unexcusable.

Secondly, when people use MJ's upbringing to defend his actions, they are enabling him. He has never been held accountable for his actions. I do not believe that Michael's upbringing in the late 60's and early 70's was remotely as 'horriffic' as it is portrayed. Why don't any of MJ's siblings display the same deviant behavior patterns? How can people allow MJ's 10 years of estranged childhood outweigh 30 years of adult actions?

Lastly, I must confess that a part of me feels God Awful bad/sorry/??? for Jackson. He's a guy that has such severe identity issuses that he literaly had a new body built for himself. He hasn't had a truly private moment in over 20 years. I doubt he has meet more than a handful of people in 20 years who have not either hated him or worshiped him. And as of Yesterday the ability for him to have a fair and speedy trial vanished.

In the end, this whole Jackson fiasco will waste thousands of hours and millions of dollars for all envolved.

I'm not saying that jacksons actions aren't partially his own fault, and i'm not really blaming it all on his childhood, but he did have a fucked up childhood. Moreso than the other kids. Why?, you ask.. because he was the youngest of the kids in the jackson 5.

He was Michael Jackson of the Jackson 5. He started with the jackson 5 when he was like 6 years old. He never had any friends when he was a kid. He didn't live a normal childhood like most people do. He did live a messed up weird twisted childhood. He was also the most known and loved member of the jackson 5.

All he wants now is to be a child again, thus the reason why he created neverland. He wasn't allowed to have a childhood, and when he was able to and not in control of his father, who could he trust? Who was he able to be friends with?

He had millions of dollars, only thought of music, lived in a house that is probably bigger than anyones houses on this board, and lived with a garaff, tiger and a monkey as his best friends. This was at 16, so obviously you could tell that he felt that he missed out on something at that age, and he's probably been feeling that way ever since.

I'm just saying that this is maybe why he's weird now, but in no way does this defend him for his actioins of he did some sick twisted shit though.

Also, i'm just wondering where you got this '30 years of adult action' and where it comes from?

To my knowledge, and from what i remember, the media and people in society started picking on MJ right when he started changing his image. Before that he was looked upon as a person who was loving, giving and full hearted. Every person who knows him sees this side of him, and tells people this, but no one listens.

I guess what i am asking is, what deviant behaviour patterns? And what actions has he had to be accountable for? All he has done is take some kids under his wing. At first it was viewed as a nice guy who is known and loved worldwide helping out some kids in need. Once he started changing what he looked like, it was 'now he's a sick guy who molests people'. Other than that, what actions? All he ever wanted was to help people!!! I just don't understand what actions he needs to be accountable for, and how you would know about these other actions and why you think that he wasn't punnished for anything that he did 'wrong'.

I do agree that jackson has some severe identity issuses. I think society just needs to put something on jackson to explain why he's so weird. People would me more at ease with why he's so weird if he is convicted of this.

So many things have blinded our eyes from who michael jackson is, and it's all because of the media and plastic surgery.

I suggest that everyone go back and watch some videos, and some interviews and things like that about/with michael jackson before all of this bullshit and come back and tell us what you think. Listen to his songs and come back and tell us what you think. The media is playing a huge role on a lot of things here.


Also, JoenOcoee, you are right. The only dipshits that would allow their kids to be alone with jackson are people who view him as family. However, if he is convicted and actually guilty, i agree, those parents probably have some problems. I honestly think it's just the fact that they view him as family. If he were as sick as the media is saying, all these other kids whom he 'molested' would come forward and say something. Why does someone come forward only every 10 years?

I really don't know what to think. The man is obviously completely nuts, of course that doesn't make him a paedophile... I can't say I've ever been a fan, but it's been sad to see MJ deteriorate to such a state. If he really has committed sex crimes then I hope he's punished (8 years seems far too lenient for child sexual abuse), but perhaps he hasn't, people will do anything for money so I wouldn't be surprised if it were those that were making the complaint who were guilty, time will tell I suppose...

I never had any respect for Michael Jackson. The fool fucked himself up, as far as I'm concerned. "King of Pop" my ass.

He should get a fair trial, and he should go to jail if convicted.

I'm waiting to hear what the result is.

Jackson is, in my mind, a very strange and damaged human being. I have reason to at least strongly suspect that he has interfered sexually with children before.

If he is found guilty in this case, I hope he goes to jail for a very long time.

Sadly, he's rich, and therefore will get the best justice money can buy.

I'm not going to say he did it or he didn't, because I don't know, but I'm glad this case is being taken seriously.

I believe all are innocent until proven guilty. Unless they are guilty of course in which case they are not innocent.

If he was a NAMBLA member would it make it alright???

I can't believe I had to edit out the rest of your post to get that one statement. Mainly because my response is this:

Have you ever heard about or seen any of the other Jacksons (ie Latoya or Tito)? Haven't you noticed the many complete personality transformations Janet Jackson has gone through? Don't you think there's a reason that, as adults, the Jacksons have never managed to stay together as a group through an entire album recording and its following tour? I guess that my last question sums up the previous ones: what hole do you live in?

A few thoughts on this situation. I feel saddened that it is happening to someone I used to have a lot of respect for. I mean, I used to like quite a few of his songs and music videos. I think a majority of you who have posted have liked a song or two of his.

I think a lot of you are also condemning him before he is proven guilty. This reminds me a little of people who are racist, homophobic, etc....they immediately disassociate themselves with things they are scared of or things they don't understand. A lot of you are scared of the fact that he is odd and lives a very ecclectic lifestyle. You condemn him regardless if he is guilty or innocent.

Michael never had a "real" childhood. From the start, his life has always been manipulated by someone else. Can you really blame him for being child like now? He is living out what he never had the opportunity to do when he was a child. So, when he says he has kids over for sleep overs, I "want" to think that it is purely innocent and he is just living out his childhood fantasies because he never had the opportunity to do so before. On the other hand, if he truly did do something to those kids and the accusations are not some way to extort millions from him again, then he should suffer the ultimate consequences for his actions.

In short, I could go both ways on this argument. Either way, I am saddened by it.

Michael Jackson's money got him off the first time. I doubt it will this time. Pedophiles are generally not cured. He needs to be put away if the allegations are proven true.

Has he turned himself in yet? Or is he getting plastic surgery done on his asshole to make entry easier?

I have heard there might be a new law in California that doesn't allow someone who has settled once to settle again. I have no idea if this is true, pure romour. Does anyone out there know for sure?

Jdoe

Um... This is an ENTIRELY different case... So he could technically settle.. simply because it wouldn't be AGAIN.. that was a different time, different case. I don't know how you could pull that off. That means if you're in a car wreck and you sue, you decide not to settle because you might only get 2 grand out of it... and then you're completely ruining your chance later in life where you could settle for more. Catch my drift?

I'm completely ignoring this. Some people convicted.. you just posted something all out rude.

Ok... 2 more cents from me. Now picture this.. There is a big trial trying to convict you of something you did not do. Oh, lets also point out the the opposing lawyer is doing a decent job BSing your way into prison. Now.. You don't want to go to prison because you are innocent. Well you could always just do a settlement. Also as someone else said, Trials are a waste of money and time.. better to get on with your life than to waste it day after day with a trial.

Many people say, "Money Talks." Yes, this is true, but WHAT the money speaks for isn't always known. Just because you give someone 5 bucks to shut up because he's calling you gay, doesn't mean you're gay, it might just be because you want him to shut the hell up. (which sadly might have been why he was calling you gay in the first place.)

mm. self, I tend to go with this: http://www.msnbc.com/news/995303.asp
as opinion.

I don't believe he's guilty. He's damned weird but I don't believe he could/would do what they say he did. He's supposedly this big germaphobe and yet he'll masturbate a kid?

He's been accused twice. He's forty something years old, and has been hanging out with kids for the last 30 years, why are there no other accusations? Quite the opposite happened around the first case with other kids coming out and saying nothing inappropriate ever happened.

I have doubts about the first case because the parents and the "victim" settled. I agree with others who said they would want to see the bastard that did that to my child punished beyond just monetarily. I mean, how could I go on without giving my kid some legal closure to it? Yeah, I know some will say they didn't want to put their kid through a trial, but rather you'll put them through the rest of their life without having fought back against the abuser?

The prosecutor in the case is the same guy from the first trial. He's supposedly known for holding grudges. The raid was timed to coincide with Jackson's latest album release. Accident? I say probably not (especially since MJ allegedly wrote a song about the DA on the HIStory album).

I think MJ will be vindicated and this case will be shown to be a fraud.

Well, settlement isn't even an option this time. He will be facing criminal charges, not civil. What happened last time is that he was facing civil charges and got a settlement with the victim's family. The law did not allow the state to prosecute without the victim's (now lacking) cooperation. They have since changed that law, and can press charges with or without the victim's cooperation. Anyway, I don't think you can settle with the government in a criminal case, just plea bargain.

Actually, last time he was facing criminal charges. The law made it impossible for them to go forward without the victim's cooperation. The $10MM payment insured the victim did not cooperate.

It is possible that MJ can pull off a similar pay off. The prosecution would have a more difficult time with the case if the victim is uncooperative or unavailable for testimony. I don't believe he will do this since he got crucified over the last payoff. This is gonna be a battle, I think.

After the first accusations Jackson should have learned better. Sure, have kids around you. But never ever be alone with them. Why put yourself in the situation to be accused again? Guilty or not, he should have learned his lesson the first time.

Definitely agree. Of course, I could see him being easily manipulated once someone gained his trust. Something just seems very suspicious in the story. Cancer patient meets MJ, MJ covers all medical bills, kid goes into remission, family moves in with MJ, and suddenly an abuse allegation. There was a mention about the husband and wife being divorced and the husband being abusive. Not sure if that is a primary or secondary factor in this whole mess, but it adds a little bit of background to it.

I don't think at this point it really matters - his money is what has kept him out of trouble and this will probably end all of his sources of income. He supposedly owns a lot of music rights that are worth in the neighborhood of $ 250 mil (nice neighborhood) and these are already in hock for about their net value - His music no longer sells enough to even cover the costs of the videos he makes so lets hope this finishes him off - then lock his ass up and let the big dudes deal with him.

Law & Order, Guilty or Innocent, aside, I wish the guy would've gotten some help along time ago. I think he's sheltered himself from his demons for too long. With enough therapy he may have avoided this mess altogether. This is one of those cases that makes me sick for all involved. If he's innocent poor Michael and poor kid, if he's guilty poor kid. Same with Kobe. If he's innocent poor Kobe, if he's guilty poor woman-who-filed-charges.