What do you think about this? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

phoenix1002 · 04-27-2003, 11:09 AM

I read this quote somewhere the other day, I couldn't find who said it. I'm curious to know what other people think of it.

"He who joyfully marches to the music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. This disgrace to civilisation should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

Please note: this does not represent my opinions. I generally am against war, if there are other options, but when it comes to war, I am grateful for those soldiers who are willing to risk their lives in the defense of our country.

edit: By the way, if anyone knows who said this, or can provide any history to the quote, I'd appreciate it.

edit again: I found out who said this: Albert Einstein.

BBtB · 04-27-2003, 11:13 AM

Just sounds like an uneducated rant to me

4thTimeLucky · 04-27-2003, 11:21 AM

"Just sounds like an uneducated rant to me" (Time: 08.13 PM)

"edit again: I found out who said this: Albert Einstein" (Time: 08.18PM)

Just made me smile

Though I have to agree, total pacifism does seem to be a bit short sighted no matter how educated the proponent.

vermin · 04-27-2003, 11:26 AM

He was talking about Hitler's Germany and the large nazi rallys at places like Nuremburg, and the military parades meant to intimidate other countries. He may have had Stalin's Russia in mind also. Quote was probably said just before or during WWII.

On the one hand he says this disgrace to civilization must be done away with, then he says killing in war is murder. Make up your mind, Al.

SecretMethod70 · 04-27-2003, 02:58 PM

As was said, that quote is by Einstein. In fact, it used to be my e-mail sig. However, I removed it for fear it would be misinterpreted by those receiving e-mail from me as a quote against all war. That is something which it is not. Coming from someone who lived in the time of Hitler and Stalin, it's apparent what he's talking about, but it's too easy to forget the context of the time in which it was said these days.

phredgreen · 04-27-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vermin
On the one hand he says this disgrace to civilization must be done away with, then he says killing in war is murder. Make up your mind, Al.

is it quite possible that you could enlighten those who are "goosestepping about" into putting down their arms and joining a civilised society? best of both worlds.

btw, i love the quote... it describes every mindless automaton out there holding a gun and acting solely upon orders of the person above them without thinking for themselves about the consequenses of their actions.

trav · 04-27-2003, 07:45 PM

I reall like that quote...thx for sharing. Although, I do believe in one country standing up for another country in times of need - this quote does sum up nicely mindless aggressers like the Nazis.

w3r7y · 04-27-2003, 08:00 PM

ohhh that Albert, always getting into trouble

Magpie0001 · 05-04-2003, 06:10 AM

I AGREE 1000% He said it better than I could ever. also,
Not wanting to start a flamewar but whats the difference between what he was refering to & whats happening now? People are being murderd, blood is spilling, homes & families torn apart, heads split - need I continue?
We are all people.

MUrder is wrong, unless the president says??

Glory's Sun · 05-04-2003, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magpie0001
I AGREE 1000% He said it better than I could ever. also,
Not wanting to start a flamewar but whats the difference between what he was refering to & whats happening now? People are being murderd, blood is spilling, homes & families torn apart, heads split - need I continue?
We are all people.

MUrder is wrong, unless the president says??

The difference is that the coalition forces aren't taking unnecessary lives. We have taken great care not to harm civilians. Sure there are going to be some civilian casualties just as there are friendly fire incidents. The President doesn't say hey go out there and kill. The soldiers act upon what they see. If they feel there is a threat in front of them then they fire. If this statement applied to now you would see thousands upon thousands of deaths, not hundreds.

Liquor Dealer · 05-04-2003, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magpie0001
I AGREE 1000% He said it better than I could ever. also,
Not wanting to start a flamewar but whats the difference between what he was refering to & whats happening now? People are being murderd, blood is spilling, homes & families torn apart, heads split - need I continue?
We are all people.

MUrder is wrong, unless the president says??

And all this was in the Bronx last night!

Magpie0001 · 05-04-2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
And all this was in the Bronx last night!

In the Bronx?? Please explain.

Also:

Quote:

The difference is that the coalition forces aren't taking unnecessary lives. We have taken great care not to harm civilians. Sure there are going to be some civilian casualties just as there are friendly fire incidents. The President doesn't say hey go out there and kill. The soldiers act upon what they see. If they feel there is a threat in front of them then they fire. If this statement applied to now you would see thousands upon thousands of deaths, not hundreds.

Great care, american troops killed not only civilians but fucking reporters too. Maybe the president didnt say go out there & kill but thats whats happening. What does it matter if its thousands or hundreds?? People are still dying.

I dont think killing people is the way to solve problems. It saddens me to see death destruction killing no matter where it is.

Murder is wrong, Unless the president says??

Kill your neighbour go to jail, kill an Iraki get a badge.

gov135 · 05-04-2003, 08:49 AM

Everyone should think for themselves. I think we can all agree on that.

That said, do you want your fighting force to be composed of people who think as individuals? An army must act as one, its the only way to achieve objectives. One of the objectives, BTW, is and always has been to spill as little blood as possible.

If you question the actions of a military force, write your congressman or representative. Don't question the mindset and credibility of those at the frontlines.

tricks · 05-04-2003, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gov135

If you question the actions of a military force, write your congressman or representative. Don't question the mindset and credibility of those at the frontlines.

This is an excelent point. But do yoou notice that anyone who protests is "against the troops?"or "Un-American?" The whole Dixie Chicks thing was directed at GW and look what happened with that.

Sluggin · 05-04-2003, 09:48 AM

I don't buy into that quote. I think that in a democratic society, people still need to think as one cohesive unit. In American democracy especially. Our society is different from most other democracies because we put more emphasis on one single solution/ultimatum/answer. If your society as a whole decides to go in a direction that you do not really support, it's still your job to follow in that direction unless you can get that direction changed through a vote.

The military is not full of non thinking pawns. This is the way our society runs and they are following the principles of our excellent system and even defending them. While you may not agree with some of our military objectives, please do not criticise the troops doing the tasks, as they are taking the greatest risks of all. Maybe these risks aren't to support your personal ideals, but they still support a vast portion of American's. They are serving your brothers and sisters in this country.... so step off!!

Magpie0001 · 05-04-2003, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gov135
Everyone should think for themselves. I think we can all agree on that.

That said, do you want your fighting force to be composed of people who think as individuals? An army must act as one, its the only way to achieve objectives. One of the objectives, BTW, is and always has been to spill as little blood as possible.

If you question the actions of a military force, write your congressman or representative. Don't question the mindset and credibility of those at the frontlines.

I agree with your first point, we can agree to disagree.
Your fighting force is composed of individuals, Is'nt it? Theyre still individuals arent they?
Why isnt one of the objectives to spill no blood? Why is killing people accepted?
Governments spend billions on anti-drugs campaigns, cancer research, homeless shelters etc to save people & then spend many many times more go overseas & slaughter foreigners?
I figure was is the responsability of everyone frontlines or not.
If you take a gun point it & shoot someone why are you not responsable?
If you order people to drop bombs on a city why are you not responsable?
Tell your kids that guns are bad, Zero tolerance in your schools schold them for violent behaviour & when they grow up congratulate them for going overseas & killing other humans. What the fuck is a war hero anyway?
Shot a stranger in the face? Give this boy a medal!

I know its an unpopular opinion but im entitled to it.

BBtB · 05-04-2003, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
And all this was in the Bronx last night!

Quote:

Originally posted by Magpie0001
In the Bronx?? Please explain.

I do believe this was witty social commentary.

Glory's Sun · 05-04-2003, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magpie0001
I agree with your first point, we can agree to disagree.
Your fighting force is composed of individuals, Is'nt it? Theyre still individuals arent they?
Why isnt one of the objectives to spill no blood? Why is killing people accepted?
Governments spend billions on anti-drugs campaigns, cancer research, homeless shelters etc to save people & then spend many many times more go overseas & slaughter foreigners?
I figure was is the responsability of everyone frontlines or not.
If you take a gun point it & shoot someone why are you not responsable?
If you order people to drop bombs on a city why are you not responsable?
Tell your kids that guns are bad, Zero tolerance in your schools schold them for violent behaviour & when they grow up congratulate them for going overseas & killing other humans. What the fuck is a war hero anyway?
Shot a stranger in the face? Give this boy a medal!

I know its an unpopular opinion but im entitled to it.

I just want to ask you one question.. if someone had a gun pointed at you and was going to shoot you what would you do?? Hopefully you would defend yourself. In the case of war, there are laws and there is punishment if those laws are broken. Is the killing justified?? That's up to you to decide. Take Hitler for example, he had his men kill people just because they were different. He wanted to eradicate the entire race of Jews. He killed millions of people. Now look at this war in particular. We didn't go in and just kill everything that moved. You can't honestly say that we did. We killed enemy soldiers. Yes some civilians were killed. While that is sad, it is a fact of war. I would dare say that even though some were killed, they knew that it was for the best since the Iraqi people would be free from Saddam's reign. There's more to being a war hero than killing someone. A person could be a war hero for saving some fellow troops and never fire a single bullet. You're right you are entitled to your opinion.. I wouldn't take that right from you but this is mine and I'll be happy to debate it in a civilized manner

raeanna74 · 05-04-2003, 04:55 PM

I know several military men who have gone to war for our country. The key in that statement to me is "joyfully marches". These men that I know aren't going to war joyfully. I know some who come back seeing the brutalities. They aren't joyful but they feel what they did was right for those who they love. They didn't do it joyfully they did it out of conscience and love for their families and children. War isn't deporable but in certain circumstance I believe it is a necessary evil. There are always two sides. Not always cut and dry who is right and who is wrong therein lies the dilemma. Who's side to choose not whether to fight or not.

nefarious · 05-04-2003, 11:34 PM

I find many anti-war protests quite amusing ..

When in all of mankind's history have we been able to avoid war? You might argue that things can change.. but if we've been able to go this long without being able to avoid it, i really doubt we will ever.

Just a little opinion there .. ^_^

MikeyChalupa · 05-05-2003, 10:03 AM

This is the text of a letter from Albert Einstein to FDR, August 2 1939 (a month before WWII began).

Quote:

Albert Einstein
Old Grove Rd.
Nassau Point
Peconic, Long Island
August 2d, 1939

F. R. Roosevelt
President of the United States
White House
Washington, D.C.

Sir;
Some recent work by E. Fermi and L Szilard, which has been communicated to me in manuscript, leads me to expect that the element uranium may be turned into a new and important source of energy in the immediate future. Certain aspects of the situation which has arisen seem to call for watchfulness and, if necessary, quick action on the part of the Administration. I believe therefore that it is my duty to bring to your attention the following facts and recommendations.

In the course of the last four months it has been made probable- through the work of Loiot in France as well as Fermi and Szilard in America-that it may become possible to set up a nuclear chain reaction in a large mass of uranium, by which vast amounts of power and large quantities of new radium-like elements would be generated. Now it appears almost certain that this could be achieved in the immediate future.

This new phenomenon would also lead to the construction of bombs, and it is conceivable-though much less certain-that extremely powerful bombs of a new type may thus be constructed. A single bomb of this type, carried by boat and exploded in a port, might very well destroy the whole port together with some of the surrounding territory. However, such bombs might very well prove to be too heavy for transportation by air.

The United States has only very poor ores of uranium in moderate quantities. There is some good ore in Canada and the former Czechoslovakia, while the most important source of uranium is the Belgian Congo.

In view of this situation you may think it desirable to have some permanent contact maintained between the Administration and the group of physicists working on chain reactions in America. One possible way of achieving this might be for you to entrust with this task a person who has your confidence who could perhaps serve in an unofficial capacity. His task might comprise the following:

a) to approach Government Department, keep them informed of the further development, and put forward recommendations for Government actions, giving particular attention to the problems of securing a supply of uranium ore for the United States.

b) to speed up the experimental work, which is at present being carried on within the limits of the budgets of University laboratories, by providing funds, if such funds be required, through his contacts with private persons who are willing to make contributions for this cause, and perhaps also by obtaining the co-operation of industrial laboratories which have the necessary equipment.

I understand that Germany has actually stopped the sale of uranium from the Czechoslovakian mines which she has taken over. That she should have taken such an early action might perhaps be understood on the ground that the son of the German Under- Secretary of State, von Weizacker, is attached to the Kaiser- Wilhelm-Institut in Berlin where some of the American work on uranium is now being repeated.

Your very truly, (signed) A. Einstein

Understandable that he might change his mind after seeing the effects of the atomic bomb, that in this letter he urges FDR to speed up work on, and even suggests a use for an A-bomb that today would fall under the label of "terrorist tactic". Oppenhiemer had the same view change afterwards too.

-Mikey

04-27-2003, 11:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
phoenix1002 Psycho Location: lost	What do you think about this? I read this quote somewhere the other day, I couldn't find who said it. I'm curious to know what other people think of it. "He who joyfully marches to the music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. This disgrace to civilisation should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." Please note: this does not represent my opinions. I generally am against war, if there are other options, but when it comes to war, I am grateful for those soldiers who are willing to risk their lives in the defense of our country. edit: By the way, if anyone knows who said this, or can provide any history to the quote, I'd appreciate it. edit again: I found out who said this: Albert Einstein. __________________ I'd rather be climbing... I approach college much like a recovering alcoholic--one day at a time... Last edited by phoenix1002; 04-27-2003 at 11:18 AM..

04-27-2003, 11:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
BBtB ClerkMan! Location: Tulsa, Ok.	Just sounds like an uneducated rant to me __________________ Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ... "I would like about three fiddy"

04-27-2003, 11:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	"Just sounds like an uneducated rant to me" (Time: 08.13 PM) "edit again: I found out who said this: Albert Einstein" (Time: 08.18PM) Just made me smile Though I have to agree, total pacifism does seem to be a bit short sighted no matter how educated the proponent. __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

04-27-2003, 11:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
vermin Indifferent to anti-matter Location: Tucson, AZ	He was talking about Hitler's Germany and the large nazi rallys at places like Nuremburg, and the military parades meant to intimidate other countries. He may have had Stalin's Russia in mind also. Quote was probably said just before or during WWII. On the one hand he says this disgrace to civilization must be done away with, then he says killing in war is murder. Make up your mind, Al. __________________ If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst. Last edited by vermin; 04-27-2003 at 11:31 AM..

04-27-2003, 02:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	As was said, that quote is by Einstein. In fact, it used to be my e-mail sig. However, I removed it for fear it would be misinterpreted by those receiving e-mail from me as a quote against all war. That is something which it is not. Coming from someone who lived in the time of Hitler and Stalin, it's apparent what he's talking about, but it's too easy to forget the context of the time in which it was said these days. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

04-27-2003, 07:45 PM	#7 (permalink)
trav Upright	I reall like that quote...thx for sharing. Although, I do believe in one country standing up for another country in times of need - this quote does sum up nicely mindless aggressers like the Nazis.

04-27-2003, 08:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
w3r7y Crazy Location: {c4n4d4}.,b1zn47ch	ohhh that Albert, always getting into trouble __________________ "oderint dum metuant" -Caligura You say Tomato, I say Fuck you.

05-04-2003, 06:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
Magpie0001 Nobody Loves Me Location: Irish In Madrid	I AGREE 1000% He said it better than I could ever. also, Not wanting to start a flamewar but whats the difference between what he was refering to & whats happening now? People are being murderd, blood is spilling, homes & families torn apart, heads split - need I continue? We are all people. MUrder is wrong, unless the president says?? __________________ Music is my first love & It will be my last.

05-04-2003, 08:49 AM	#13 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	Everyone should think for themselves. I think we can all agree on that. That said, do you want your fighting force to be composed of people who think as individuals? An army must act as one, its the only way to achieve objectives. One of the objectives, BTW, is and always has been to spill as little blood as possible. If you question the actions of a military force, write your congressman or representative. Don't question the mindset and credibility of those at the frontlines.

05-04-2003, 09:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sluggin Upright	I don't buy into that quote. I think that in a democratic society, people still need to think as one cohesive unit. In American democracy especially. Our society is different from most other democracies because we put more emphasis on one single solution/ultimatum/answer. If your society as a whole decides to go in a direction that you do not really support, it's still your job to follow in that direction unless you can get that direction changed through a vote. The military is not full of non thinking pawns. This is the way our society runs and they are following the principles of our excellent system and even defending them. While you may not agree with some of our military objectives, please do not criticise the troops doing the tasks, as they are taking the greatest risks of all. Maybe these risks aren't to support your personal ideals, but they still support a vast portion of American's. They are serving your brothers and sisters in this country.... so step off!!

05-04-2003, 04:55 PM	#19 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	I know several military men who have gone to war for our country. The key in that statement to me is "joyfully marches". These men that I know aren't going to war joyfully. I know some who come back seeing the brutalities. They aren't joyful but they feel what they did was right for those who they love. They didn't do it joyfully they did it out of conscience and love for their families and children. War isn't deporable but in certain circumstance I believe it is a necessary evil. There are always two sides. Not always cut and dry who is right and who is wrong therein lies the dilemma. Who's side to choose not whether to fight or not. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

05-04-2003, 11:34 PM	#20 (permalink)
nefarious Insane Location: Tucson, AZ	I find many anti-war protests quite amusing .. When in all of mankind's history have we been able to avoid war? You might argue that things can change.. but if we've been able to go this long without being able to avoid it, i really doubt we will ever. Just a little opinion there .. ^_^ __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum. - Vegetius "Do Re Mil.3, Prol.