Bill O'Rights

So, I'm standing on the front porch last night, having a smoke, when I noticed that my wife's mini-van is quite a bit larger than my SUV. I drive a Ford Explorer, while she drives a Chrysler Town & Country. Now, I know that it's fun to deride SUVs, and their drivers, but what about mini-vans? I often hear (read) people complaining that they can't see past an SUV. But, her van is longer, wider, and noticibly taller than my Explorer. Your vision would obviously be more obstructed by her van than my SUV. As for gas guzzling...my Explorer has a 4.0 engine, while her van has a 3.8. Not a whole lot of difference there. So, fuel economy isn't that much of an issue. Why is it then, that my SUV is so much more socially unacceptable than my wife's mini-van? Just putting my evening ponderings out there to the masses.

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Hektore

Probably the utility vs image factor. It is generally assumed minivans are undesirable vehicles due to their 'stigma'. Therefore if you drive one, it's because you have to for the utility, not because you want to.


This is not the case with SUVs, there is a status attached to them that is actually positive in value, so people drive them just because they like them etc. It isn't that they don't have utility, that just doesn't seem to be the primary reason for owning one. There is also very little in the way of utility that another vehicle cannot accomplish at least as well, if not better. Vans for indoor capacity, trucks for towing, although and SUV kinda falls in the middle ground. So, I guess, as long as your SUV has a hitch on it, don't worry about it.

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Baraka_Guru

Yeah, the status symbol SUVs have become is a big part of it.

But I do tend to question drivers I see puttering around in SUVs and minivans alike if they are the only passenger and cargo in the entire vehicle.

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Willravel

Compare the worst SUV to the worst van and you'll get your answer. The Dodge Durango gets 12 mpg combined. The worst minivan (possibly your Town and Country) is probably going to be in the 20 mpg range.

You two don't get the same gas mileage. The T&C probably gets about 16/23 (depending on the year) and you probably get about 12/19.

new man

Bill, how many children do you and your wife have? How many DINK's do you see driving around in minivans? Very few, but it is "acceptable" for a childless couple to have an SUV. The minivans has an image of mommywagon. As far as handling, vans can sometimes do better than SUV's because they have a more roadworthy (less compliant) suspension and their center of gravity tends to ride lower. For the same fuel economy as your explorer, you wife can haul more people and more gear. It's towing capacity is not going to be too far behind, either. Personally, when I have kids, my wife and I will probably have a minivan, possibly a Honda Pilot SUV if they can make a comfortable seat more like the Acura MDX.

Now let's talk about the social acceptability of that cigarette, hmm?

squeeeb

whoa buddy. why are you slamming on the vietnamese?

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Plan9

When was the last "badass in a minivan" commercial on TV, anyway?

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Willravel

There's one going now.

Baraka_Guru

Oh, come on. SUVs are just glorified minivans.... Who are we kidding?

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Bill O'Rights

I have a 21 year old, not living at home. We have a 6 year old, and we are raising our 2-year-old grand daughter.
So...2 really.

I can possibly see that, if it were…say…an Escalade. It’s a 94 Ford Explorer. I don’t really see a status thing going on there. My SUV has an emphasis on the word “utility”. I lay the back seats down, and I can haul anything that I used to haul in my truck. It keeps me from having to rent the truck at Home Depot. Put the seats back up, and there is room for the 2 kids in the back seat. It has plenty of ground clearance, so I take it “off road” when we go camping or fishing. In short..I actually use the thing.

Mmmm…yeeaah…I can see that. But, bear in mind, it is my primary vehicle. I will not always be toting spouse, kids and their assorted gear. Sometimes I just need it to transport my lone ass somewhere.

Perhaps it is my age, but I see no “stigma” in the mini-van. When we go somewhere as a family, we will typically take the T&C. It is newer, it is shinier and, quite frankly, has much more room in it. I am not the least bit embarrassed to be seen driving it.

Actually, truth be told, we get very similar gas mileage. Barring certain variables, such as use of the four wheel drive, the Explorer is only 2 MPG behind the T&C. Not enough that I care.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Willravel

Just a hunch: check the air filter on the Chrysler.

telekinetic

SUVs are generally derided in a way minivans are not, because they have offroading functionality that the typical urban user will never need or use, and often pay a hefty fuel penalty to do so.

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Bill O'Rights

Will, I guaratee you that there is nothing wrong with the air filter. I am very anal when it comes to vehicle upkeep. Unlike my wife, who tends to just gas-n-go. Fact is, the Explorer is beefier and therefore heavier, but the T&C is larger. The T&C does have a smaller engine, but not by much. If I were to "blame" my 2 MPG difference on anything, it would be the fact that 1st generation Ford Explorers have all the aerodynamics of your average shoebox.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Manic_Skafe

Ditto. Those adverts of the American Man in full control of his destiny conquering nature in a highly impractical vehicle are just plain insulting. Nothing brings the stupidity full circle like seeing one of these parked several feet from the curb because the driver was too worried about scraping their rims on the curb.

But that obviously isn't you BoR.

Unless you're kidding, DINK = Dual Income No Kids.

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Willravel

Fair enough. Is there a bunch of stuff in the van?

Anyway, the point is that some SUVs are absolutely horrendous when it comes to efficiency. There's no excuse for 10-12 mpg anymore, even if you're building a vehicle to haul. It's those SUV's that give most SUVs a bad name.

On the flip side the Ford Escape Hybrid was a pioneer in hybrid technology in SUVs.

Hektore

This is just flat out untrue, work trucks when loaded get less than that, when they're hauling (and work trucks almost always are) it doesn't matter how new or efficient it is, they don't make a truck that does better.

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Fotzlid

edit: already noted by someone else

Willravel

When loaded, sure, but not when they're carting around some groceries. The H2 gets something like 10 mpg average without towing or hauling anything but a driver. The Dodge Durango gets 8 mpg not hauling anything but it's own weight around town.

uncle phil

i've got a 2002 toyota 4-runner (read SUV) that gets 19 mpg around the circuit and 23 mpg on the open road (read loaded with florida stuff...)

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Cynthetiq

I can't find it but there was some report on SUV vs. Minivan years ago that stated the difference was the kind of person that chose it. Something about SUV driver wanting to control and command, where the minivan driver wanted to be part of the community.

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Hektore

My apologies I didn't realize you meant that in terms of using a vehicle build for towing as a daily driver. That's a whole level of lunacy that only sort of makes MPG relevant.

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lostgirl

Bingo!

I still don't like a lot of minivan drivers either. I get cut off by just as many of them as I do SUVs.

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squeeeb

yeah, i know. i was just trying to be offended by something that was not meant to be taken offensively.

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Lindy

I think some of the newer "crossovers" could be minivans. The only difference is they don't have the sliding doors. And the people that buy them don't want to be mistaken for a soccer mom, (even if they are one.) so they will never have sliding doors.
Bill, even though your Explorer may be moderate, SUVs will forever be identified with the likes of Escalators, Hummers, Ford Excesspeditions, Lincoln Extravagators, and Chevy UberUrbans. Until you downsize to something like a Subaru Forester. Which is really just a small car with a little extra clearance. Like my 1981 AMC Eagle.

Lindy

Jinn

My car gets 10 mpg, so there.

Also, I think it really ties into status vs. need.

If I had a dime for everyone in an H2 who never has anything in the back seats or the trunk, and who never even has enough to occupy the HOV lane, I'd be rich. The moment I see an SUV with all of the seats filled, that'll be the day. I really don't have an issue with SUVs personally, but I can see how it bugs some people.

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Leto

A-Team van right? the first one...

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Willravel

Yeah, the first one is the A-Team van, a 1983 GMC van with the v8 and a few modifications. I love it when a van comes together.

JStrider

I liked my explorer a lot more then the minivan I'm driving now... I actually used it for the offroad capabilities pretty regularly, camping, and adventuring... I miss the hell outta that car...

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Dammitall

I prefer this one myself. You really can't go wrong with Heart.

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