Imagining the Dimensions... (Not like before) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Reese · 07-29-2008, 07:06 PM

references :P
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...dimension.html
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/found-n...dimension.html
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/general...dimension.html

I was in bed last night and because it was so hot I was having a bit of trouble sleeping. The Imagining the 10th dimension thread(s) popped in my head a few hours after laying there. Following the video, I've theorized that it's impossible for a being of any dimension to fully comprehend the dimension that he lives in. Take the first step of the video, The 1st Dimension, as an example. We'll start with Height. A 1st dimensional being can't know how tall it is. All beings need a sensor to perceive anything, so let's give our line an eye. In the 1st dimension this eye can look up or look down. If it looks up and sees itself, then it knows it's eye is not at the top of the line. If it looks down and sees itself it knows it's eye isnt at the bottom of the line. So, The eye is somewhere in the middle. To get a little more information, The Line(aka 1st dimensional being) can have a second eye. This eye looks up and sees nothing but looks down and sees itself. The line can then know that the 2nd eye is higher than the first and that's as much information that a vertical line can know about itself. Let's move to the 2nd dimension.

In the 2nd Dimension, we have Width and Height. Let's take our vertical line and give it a sensor. It can look up and down and see itself or it can look left and right and see other vertical lines. Our Single eye looks to the right and sees a Black line that turns red a little over half way up. A single sensor in a 2d world can only see 1 dimension - Height. With a second Sensor, on top of our vertical line, it can see things from a different point of view. By looking at the different heights of the black line from the different POVs, The 2 eyes can determine how far apart from each other they are. Once the eyes know the distance from each other, they can determine that the red line is X distance behind the shorter black line. This allows a 2d being to see more of his world and allows him to process his own dimension. Veiwing a 2d space from within means your sensors can be obstructed by height and the only way to see more of a 2d space from within is more sensors or we can move to 3d space.

In 3 dimensional space, We can see Width and Height with a single sensor. A single dimension no longer obstructs our view. A impossibly tall object with impossibly thin width does not pose a problem for our sensor. However, With a single sensor cannot know the depth of an object. This is where our 2nd eye comes in. The second eye allows our minds to calculate and perceive our 3rd dimension. It takes the width and height from one eye, compares it to the Width and height of the other and boom we're sensors at viewing the world in 3d.. BUT.. You're not seeing it all.. What you see is limited to the number of eyes you have and their position.

This takes us to the 4th dimension! To understand the 4th dimension, we look at how the other dimensions are constructed. In the 1st Dimension, A single eye can't really see anything. It see's the 0th(is that a word) dimension 0th dimension is basically the dot that started it all. It needed a second sensor to help it understand that it lived in a 1d world but still couldn't see the whole picture. Move on to 2d. A single sensor can see an entire 1d world. It sees the vertical line living in it's 1d world. With a 2nd sensor, a 2d being can understand the 2nd dimension but like before, It cannot see the whole picture. The 1 dimension that it sees so well is obstructing everything in the distance. The 3rd dimension repeats this process. We can see the entire 2d world with ease. It's just vertical and horizontal lines.

Our brains are very complex and even with 1 eye as long as we KNOW width and height we can guess depth by using reference points. However if a 1 eyed man woke up one day to find that everything's width and height had been altered, He'd be screwed. He'd over-reach for items that are smaller than before and end up knocking them over, he'd grab for something that's bigger than before and miss because it wasn't as close as he thought. You can simulate this by closing 1 eye and reaching for something with an indeterminable width/height.. This is off the point.. So let's get moving to what the 4th dimension is really all about.

We've come to the idea that an object can see everything in the dimension below it. A 1d vertical line sees nothing which is what came before it, the 2d sees the entire 1d world, 3rd Dimension sees the entire 2d world so the 4th dimension must see the entire 3rd dimension. A 4d being can see Widths, Heights and Depths of the 3d world just as the beings of dimensions before it. It has a complete understanding of what is there. So what is the 4th Dimension? Well, With a single Sensor, A 4d being can see all that is. So, We could assume that a 4d world consists of all that was, is and ever will be. Basically, It's Linier time. With the 3rd dimension obsctucting the view, The 4d being needs a second eye. With the second eye the 4d being can see into the past or future. It can determine how far into the past or future relative to the first eye by triangulating the differences between what the 1st eye sees compared to the 2nd eye. Just like every dimension before it. Still, It cannot fully comprehend the entire timeline. what it can see is limited to the number of eyes it has and their position.

So, Now we're on the 5th dimension... I'm losing track of what I've typed and losing interest in the subject so I'm going to stop here. Applying the same rules as before, We'll assume that the 5th dimension can see all that was, is and will be with a single sensor.. So Maybe the 5th dimensional being lives in a world of what could be. Every decision branches off. Every possible cause and effect is there, but with only a single sensor, this being can't even begin to see the 5th dimension because his view is obstructed by what was, is and will be. He needs a 2nd sensor the the different causes and effects but how many or what causes and effects that he sees is completely unknowns to me.. So.. What do you guys think?

TL;DR version: ugh.. My head hurts.. BBL

speshul-k · 07-30-2008, 12:59 AM

This is where insomnia leads. I wonder if Einstein or Hawkin had the same problem.
Reading this over morning coffee. Thoughts to follow!

thingstodo · 07-30-2008, 01:39 PM

What did you eat for dinner to do that to your brain?

robot_parade · 07-30-2008, 08:40 PM

Have you read Flatland? It covers the basics pretty well. :-) See: Flatland: A romance of many dimensions

"I call our world Flatland. not because we call it so, but to make it's nature clearer to you..."

ASU2003 · 08-02-2008, 10:21 PM

So, can a 3D object change or modify the fifth dimension past the current time?

Jetée · 08-02-2008, 10:49 PM

Appealing.

I am very intrigued to the distinct, if not eccentric, theory that we(our "known" universe) live on and solely occupy the 2nd floor of an apartment complex. We must cohabitate with the other "tenants" on separate levels, but we rarely interact with them, save for the occasionally outings to such hotspots and gatherings as the "elevator, laundry room, lobby, et al.", where we it would be possible to see our seldom-seen neighbors. The curious bit is that our neighbors could be comprised of bigfeet or ghosts on the other floors.

hulk · 08-06-2008, 08:53 PM

As we exist in four dimensions, three spatial and time, where is our eye to see linear time? Memory for the past and imagination for the future? Deep!

xepherys · 08-06-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulk

As we exist in four dimensions, three spatial and time, where is our eye to see linear time? Memory for the past and imagination for the future? Deep!

Pretty much what I'd assume. It's things like this that make me a hopeless insomniac half of the time anyhow. Assuming that there are infinite dimensions and one cannot interact with dimensions beyond it's own, a human could never "leap" back and forth through time. However, if we could build a device, let's call it a time machine, to do it, maybe we'd be on the right track. If only that time machine could be built to look like a really awesome car. Wait...

MSD · 08-07-2008, 06:29 AM

Same thing I post every time that aggravating video comes up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

A sound engineer posing as a scientist engages in quack science. This man has confused the many worlds interpretation with dimensional physics. Alternate and parallel universes may be theorized by some, but should not be confused with higher dimensions. Above the fourth, dimensions exist in sizes only dealt with in quantum physics; this video displays a fairly strong grasp up to that point as the fourth (time) dimension in euclidean space represents the length of a vector. The only reason to posit these dimensions as such is to push string theory, which is non-falsifiable and therefore as invalid as competing non-falsifiable theories.

In short, this has nothing to do with science and everything to do with selling books on a subject in which the author has no business claiming to be an authority.

07-29-2008, 07:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	Imagining the Dimensions... (Not like before) references :P http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...dimension.html http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/found-n...dimension.html http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/general...dimension.html I was in bed last night and because it was so hot I was having a bit of trouble sleeping. The Imagining the 10th dimension thread(s) popped in my head a few hours after laying there. Following the video, I've theorized that it's impossible for a being of any dimension to fully comprehend the dimension that he lives in. Take the first step of the video, The 1st Dimension, as an example. We'll start with Height. A 1st dimensional being can't know how tall it is. All beings need a sensor to perceive anything, so let's give our line an eye. In the 1st dimension this eye can look up or look down. If it looks up and sees itself, then it knows it's eye is not at the top of the line. If it looks down and sees itself it knows it's eye isnt at the bottom of the line. So, The eye is somewhere in the middle. To get a little more information, The Line(aka 1st dimensional being) can have a second eye. This eye looks up and sees nothing but looks down and sees itself. The line can then know that the 2nd eye is higher than the first and that's as much information that a vertical line can know about itself. Let's move to the 2nd dimension. In the 2nd Dimension, we have Width and Height. Let's take our vertical line and give it a sensor. It can look up and down and see itself or it can look left and right and see other vertical lines. Our Single eye looks to the right and sees a Black line that turns red a little over half way up. A single sensor in a 2d world can only see 1 dimension - Height. With a second Sensor, on top of our vertical line, it can see things from a different point of view. By looking at the different heights of the black line from the different POVs, The 2 eyes can determine how far apart from each other they are. Once the eyes know the distance from each other, they can determine that the red line is X distance behind the shorter black line. This allows a 2d being to see more of his world and allows him to process his own dimension. Veiwing a 2d space from within means your sensors can be obstructed by height and the only way to see more of a 2d space from within is more sensors or we can move to 3d space. In 3 dimensional space, We can see Width and Height with a single sensor. A single dimension no longer obstructs our view. A impossibly tall object with impossibly thin width does not pose a problem for our sensor. However, With a single sensor cannot know the depth of an object. This is where our 2nd eye comes in. The second eye allows our minds to calculate and perceive our 3rd dimension. It takes the width and height from one eye, compares it to the Width and height of the other and boom we're sensors at viewing the world in 3d.. BUT.. You're not seeing it all.. What you see is limited to the number of eyes you have and their position. This takes us to the 4th dimension! To understand the 4th dimension, we look at how the other dimensions are constructed. In the 1st Dimension, A single eye can't really see anything. It see's the 0th(is that a word) dimension 0th dimension is basically the dot that started it all. It needed a second sensor to help it understand that it lived in a 1d world but still couldn't see the whole picture. Move on to 2d. A single sensor can see an entire 1d world. It sees the vertical line living in it's 1d world. With a 2nd sensor, a 2d being can understand the 2nd dimension but like before, It cannot see the whole picture. The 1 dimension that it sees so well is obstructing everything in the distance. The 3rd dimension repeats this process. We can see the entire 2d world with ease. It's just vertical and horizontal lines. Our brains are very complex and even with 1 eye as long as we KNOW width and height we can guess depth by using reference points. However if a 1 eyed man woke up one day to find that everything's width and height had been altered, He'd be screwed. He'd over-reach for items that are smaller than before and end up knocking them over, he'd grab for something that's bigger than before and miss because it wasn't as close as he thought. You can simulate this by closing 1 eye and reaching for something with an indeterminable width/height.. This is off the point.. So let's get moving to what the 4th dimension is really all about. We've come to the idea that an object can see everything in the dimension below it. A 1d vertical line sees nothing which is what came before it, the 2d sees the entire 1d world, 3rd Dimension sees the entire 2d world so the 4th dimension must see the entire 3rd dimension. A 4d being can see Widths, Heights and Depths of the 3d world just as the beings of dimensions before it. It has a complete understanding of what is there. So what is the 4th Dimension? Well, With a single Sensor, A 4d being can see all that is. So, We could assume that a 4d world consists of all that was, is and ever will be. Basically, It's Linier time. With the 3rd dimension obsctucting the view, The 4d being needs a second eye. With the second eye the 4d being can see into the past or future. It can determine how far into the past or future relative to the first eye by triangulating the differences between what the 1st eye sees compared to the 2nd eye. Just like every dimension before it. Still, It cannot fully comprehend the entire timeline. what it can see is limited to the number of eyes it has and their position. So, Now we're on the 5th dimension... I'm losing track of what I've typed and losing interest in the subject so I'm going to stop here. Applying the same rules as before, We'll assume that the 5th dimension can see all that was, is and will be with a single sensor.. So Maybe the 5th dimensional being lives in a world of what could be. Every decision branches off. Every possible cause and effect is there, but with only a single sensor, this being can't even begin to see the 5th dimension because his view is obstructed by what was, is and will be. He needs a 2nd sensor the the different causes and effects but how many or what causes and effects that he sees is completely unknowns to me.. So.. What do you guys think? TL;DR version: ugh.. My head hurts.. BBL __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

07-30-2008, 01:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	What did you eat for dinner to do that to your brain? __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

08-02-2008, 10:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jetée The Reforms Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition	Appealing. I am very intrigued to the distinct, if not eccentric, theory that we(our "known" universe) live on and solely occupy the 2nd floor of an apartment complex. We must cohabitate with the other "tenants" on separate levels, but we rarely interact with them, save for the occasionally outings to such hotspots and gatherings as the "elevator, laundry room, lobby, et al.", where we it would be possible to see our seldom-seen neighbors. The curious bit is that our neighbors could be comprised of bigfeet or ghosts on the other floors. __________________ As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves. —Mohandas K. Gandhi

07-30-2008, 12:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
speshul-k Insane	This is where insomnia leads. I wonder if Einstein or Hawkin had the same problem. Reading this over morning coffee. Thoughts to follow!

07-30-2008, 08:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
robot_parade Junkie Location: San Antonio, TX	Have you read Flatland? It covers the basics pretty well. :-) See: Flatland: A romance of many dimensions "I call our world Flatland. not because we call it so, but to make it's nature clearer to you..."

08-02-2008, 10:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	So, can a 3D object change or modify the fifth dimension past the current time?

08-06-2008, 08:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	As we exist in four dimensions, three spatial and time, where is our eye to see linear time? Memory for the past and imagination for the future? Deep!