TechTV: Save us from the new Screen Savers - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

brandon11983 · 09-17-2004, 10:48 PM

I'm watching the iPod vs. the digital music player world episode. If Kevin or Alex say "thats awesome" one more time, I will kill them. Or myself.

Lasereth · 09-17-2004, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrap1

First of all you guys are making the wrong types of comparisons when deciding which component is most important. I think that you have to start with the minimum requirements of the game and do a bench mark test. Then, use the slowest recommended processor with the highest available video card. Record benchmarks. Then do the opposite. Use the fastest processor available with the slowest recommended video card. Record benchmarks.

Compare the results of the three tests and voila, you have your answer. Since you say you have access to all different kinds of hardware maybe this is something you can do? This is the only real way to get a definitive answer, otherwise, we can throw examples back and forth but never know for certain.

See, the funny part is is that I HAVE seen this benchmark done and I have seen the results. I don't pull crap from thin air. This is exactly my point -- having a minimum required processor and a killer videocard is better than having a minimum required videocard and killer processor. It's been proven by tests.

-Lasereth

Lasereth · 09-17-2004, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catback

Lasereth: I understand where your coming from and it's all good but I do wanna clear up something, when you say doom 3 will run better do you mean the graphics will look better or do you mean the game will actually run faster. If your talking about graphics then your right but if your saying the game is run by the video card or run faster by it then your the opposite of right. Regardless of what game or what system you have I will stand by this fact: Graphics cards need to be paired with their matching processor for optimal performance. If your high-end video card isn't paired with a high-end processor the video card's performance suffers, and vice-versa. Not that this will always be an issue but if you really wanna milk your dollars worth on your brand new $500+ video card you better have a brand new or nearly so fast ass processor. That's all I wanna say about video cards, processors and gaming.

As far as kevin recommending someone upgrade their processor instead of video card for doom 3. In his defense he's no idiot or gaming newbie, most likely the person with the question didn't have at least a 2.0 Ghz processor but there video card was enough to play doom 3 with decent frame rates with even maybe medium quality. The person probably wanted to max out the quality and yes a video card would do that but for the money it would cost the person could improve their whole system by upgrading the processor and maybe other things. Sure it won't get them the maxed out quality but doom 3 and all other games and programs would run faster and better instead of everything running the same and doom just looking prettier.

You're arguing against stuff I agree with! I never said the videocard wouldn't be bottlenecked with a slow processor. I agree with that. A $500 videocard isn't gonna perform like it should without a fast processor. I'm simply saying if it came down to having a system with a grade A processor or a grade A videocard, the videocard is the way to go as long as your processor is decent (1.5 GHz P4, etc.). I understand that the card will be bottlenecked in a system like that, but it'll still perform better than a better processor with the same old videocard.

And yes, for the average user, a processor upgrade is better if they're not a big gamer.

-Lasereth

Ralvek · 09-19-2004, 06:56 AM

I agree, the whole thing sucks. I used to love that they replayed it multupile times each do so I could watch before I went to bed. That show is the sole reason I have digital cable, but now I am debating about saying hasta luego to it.

catback · 09-19-2004, 07:22 AM

Lasereth: I must say of all the gamers I know your the only one that would be fine with an average processor so long as the video card was fast as f**k. I guess there are all types but had me or anyone I know had $500-$600 bucks and an average gaming computer, none of us would spend all or even nearly all of it on video card upgrade alone. For example take a Athlon XP 1500+, 384MB DDR, Geforce 4 Ti 4600, 60 gig hd, with $500-$600 bucks it really doesn't improve your computer $500-$600 bucks worth when your just swapping the Geforce 4 for a 6800 Ultra or a Radeon X800 XT. Yes doom 3 will look prettier but it won't run faster and it won't make the computer as a whole faster. If you wanna blow $500 now to just make doom 3 look pretty thats fine by me but the money could be better spent on the system as a whole instead of just doom 3.

Also before I go further everyone is entitled to run whatever kind of system they want but when you recommend something to someone else you should recommend what they want and not what you want. If a dad calls you up and says his son got doom 3 for his birthday but it runs terrible on the family computer and he has $500 to upgrade the computer right now, the right recommendation isn't a $500 video card unless the whole family only plays doom 3 and other video games on the computer.

To almost everyone else, alot of kevin haters I C. I wonder if you hate kevin cuse of kevin or because of the leo, patrick, host no more thing. No reply needed really because I think he's alright and not a dumbass as some here are quick and/or eager to point out. All in all I don't care about anything except for G4 makes and turns good shows into crap, damn comcast monopoly. Where are our anti-monopoly laws when a non-microsoft company tries to take over everything. Around here comcast wants into everything, they already have cable tv, internet, phone, television station. Every year they get into something else and their prices are rediculous.

Lasereth · 09-19-2004, 11:49 AM

Again, I'm not arguing that the videocard won't be bottlenecked. I'm simply arguing that a videocard upgrade will benefit today's games way more than a processor upgrade. For the system you mentioned, the same would apply. A newer videocard would benefit way more than a new processor, even if the videocard was only $200.

To illustrate my point more clearly, I took some screenshots of the tests I keep referencing. We'll talk about an Athlon XP 2000+ system with a GeForce 6800 Ultra. What a killer system!! But only if it had a better processor to make the games run better...right? Wrong. The processor is fine. Look what happens when ya upgrade the processor to an Athlon XP 3200+:

<IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/processortest.jpg>

The average FPS for Doom 3 at the highest settings was 46 with the 2000+. Upgrading from the old 2000+ to a 3200+ increases the frames per second from 46 to 67. Not a big increase, but worth mentioning. A 45% increase in frames per second. The game went from playable to playable. 15 FPS is barely noticeable when the game is already running fine with a 6800 Ultra.

Now, we'll take a look at a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 system. Think about how awesome this processor is! 3.2 GHz!! The system was tested first with a GeForce FX 5200 Ultra.

<IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/videocardtest.jpg>

Doom 3 runs at a mere <B>11.3</B> frames per second. That's right, 11.3. Remember that this is the same resolution as the wimpy Athlon XP 2000+ system with the 6800 Ultra that ran it at 45 frames per second.

Now, the videocard in the 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 system is replaced with a GeForce 6800 Ultra:

<IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/videocardtest1.jpg>

The frames per second just jumped to...68.6. So a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with a low-to-midrange videocard (GeForce FX 5200 Ultra) at 11.3 frames per second jumped to 68.6 frames per second with a videocard upgrade. That's a <B>607%</B> increase in raw performance from using a better videocard.

Which would you rather upgrade...the videocard, which gives a 600% increase in power with games, or a processor, which gives a 45% increase in power when the game was already playable? Going with a low-end processor and a high-end videocard is obviously better than going with a low-end videocard and a high-end processor. This is laid out clearly.

This information doesn't apply to non-gamers. The videocard doesn't matter for non-gamers. This is simply for people wondering which aspect of your PC matters when upgrading. Using a top of the line 6800 Ultra with an old Athlon XP 2000+ proved to be nearly 500% better than using a blazing 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with a GeForce FX 5200 Ultra. I can't explain it any more clearly. The results are here: videocard matters more.

-Lasereth

mrap1 · 09-19-2004, 04:06 PM

While this does lend some credence to your argument the first test isn't really a good indicator. An XP 2000+ should hardly be considered a bad, or even low range processor. Although, the second test with a very fast processor and a slow video card does prove your point perfectly.

bottled leaf · 09-19-2004, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bltzkriegmcanon

My point: Kevin Rose and the rest of the crew on TSS need to be dropped like a bad habit. Get the guys from Tom's Hardware in there ASAP. Or the guys from Anandtech. Or FUCKING ANYONE WHO KNOWS SHIT ABOUT COMPUTERS AND NOT FUCKING "SCRIPT BUNNIES" WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT MATTERS MOST IN GAMING!!!!

I like Kevin Rose for all the dark tips and hacking he does. But everybody else can leave and put in the real techies at toms hardware and anandtech like you said. The MX440 in their rig was dumbass. X800?????????

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuddyHawks

The shows on that channel are horrendous. Have anyone seen the show Cheat? The worst show ever. "From our online poll, this week’s favorite cheat is GOD mode!!!" Crappy half hour.

lol. the poll is really funny, it is the "get everything cheat" everytime! What the hell is the point of the poll when it is the "get everything cheat" everytime? Just put a damn segment of "get everything cheat" in the show! Cheat is gay, infact G4 is gay.

Lasereth · 09-19-2004, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrap1

While this does lend some credence to your argument the first test isn't really a good indicator. An XP 2000+ should hardly be considered a bad, or even low range processor. Although, the second test with a very fast processor and a slow video card does prove your point perfectly.

A processor that can be bought for a mere $50 is low-end. A mid-range processor is $150-$250, and high-end is more than $300. I do it by price, not by performance.

Although you're right, the second example basically lays it down flat.

-Lasereth

Draconis · 09-19-2004, 09:54 PM

Lasereth: Good fucking point. I was considering overclocking right after D3 first came out, but researched it and found that replacing my old vid card - POS, sorry ATI - with the 6800 would help way more. Very happy with it.

One last thing to say, considering this thread is on TechTV:
We need more Morgan Webb. There needs to be an all Morgan Webb channel. I don't care how deep cable it is. Fuck it, they already have ZTV copyrighted. Put her out in deep cable under that name and I shit you not, the geeks would come running.

zakool21 · 09-20-2004, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconis

We need more Morgan Webb. There needs to be an all Morgan Webb channel. I don't care how deep cable it is. Fuck it, they already have ZTV copyrighted. Put her out in deep cable under that name and I shit you not, the geeks would come running.

I shit you not, I love her.

http://www.pbase.com/zakooldude/image/34055599/original

catback · 09-30-2004, 03:10 PM

Lasereth: Not that it really matters or I care but I don't know that many rich people or people that only use their computers for gaming. $500 for just a video card is out of almost everyone I know's league. It doesn't matter how wicked the video card is if the price is out of your reach. If you can afford a bleeding edge video card you should be able to afford a bleeding edge or close to processor along with everything else computer. I never did say I recommended processor over video card for any gamer but I still don't disagree with kevin recommending a processor. We don't know if the person had a game only machine or if gaming was just a hobby so you can't really say anything is better over the other. As far as all those benchmarks they really only test video card speed and not processor speed, also what self respecting gamer is going to buy a GFX5200? The 5200 doesn't even keep up with a GF4 Ti 4600. Another thing about your benchmarks, they're wrong I've seen an ATI Radeon 9600XT bench better than 17.6 fps on a AMD Athlon XP 2000+ so it definitely is gonna do better on a 3.2Ghz pentium 4. All in all it still boils down to you haven't shown that kevin was wrong. Further than that I don't care anymore, I know my pc and game stuff and utilize it for function rather than debate. Back to the main subject at hand.

I was recently able to watch the new screen savers and I must say OMG G4 has transformed it into absolute crap. Everything about the show from the script, set, dialogue, topics is crap. What the hell was that overclocking a toothbrush crap. Seriously who really yearns to shave milli-seconds off their brushing time at the risk if harming their gums. I couldn't even watch the whole hour, after 30 mins it was clear that tss was forever lost/murdered by G4. Comcast is the devil and should go back to hell.

mrap1 · 09-30-2004, 07:33 PM

The only thing I like better about the new show is that they are a little more daring and loose. Patrick was such a stiff and formal guy, compared to Albrect. Not that Albrect is better than Patrick, but I always got the sense that Patrick wanted to say a little more but held his tongue for whatever reason... Oh yeah, and there is way more eye candy now than before.

Lasereth · 09-30-2004, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catback

As far as all those benchmarks they really only test video card speed and not processor speed, also what self respecting gamer is going to buy a GFX5200? The 5200 doesn't even keep up with a GF4 Ti 4600. Another thing about your benchmarks, they're wrong I've seen an ATI Radeon 9600XT bench better than 17.6 fps on a AMD Athlon XP 2000+ so it definitely is gonna do better on a 3.2Ghz pentium 4. All in all it still boils down to you haven't shown that kevin was wrong.

The benchmark tested videocard speed and processor speed. Look at the pictures! There's like 10 videocards versus each other and 20 processors versus each other. I'd say that's a processor speed test!

I'm not sure what the 9600XT thing is about, but ya can't say that "they're wrong" because it's a controlled test under controlled conditions. A 9600XT will run Doom 3, but not more than 17 FPS at 1280x1024. That's suicide settings for a majority of the videocards on the market.

I did show that Kevin was wrong. He said that a processor upgrade is better for gaming systems. He's wrong. The results I posted prove him wrong through and through 100%. A videocard upgrade is more beneficial to an average system than a processor upgrade concerning gaming. Kevin said the exact opposite of this, therefore he's wrong.

-Lasereth

mrap1 · 11-11-2004, 07:16 PM

Back to the topic, it looks like The Screensavers is going to change once again.
www.kevinrose.com
I can't say that I'm too dissapointed, the new TSS was totally stupid, they moved away from most real tech stuff.

brandon11983 · 11-11-2004, 08:09 PM

Ho-ly shit. That sucks. TSS is finally in the pooper. They were looking down but not out with the loss of Leo and Patrick, and the final nail is now in the coffin. A sad day...

blar · 11-11-2004, 08:24 PM

OMG patrick left!?!?!?1 noooo

damn i have not watched techtv since G4 bought them out
do they still allow kevin to talk about xbox modding because that in my mind is why he became popular

Does KAT still work for techtv?? or she left??

yea Leo has his own show on G4techtv canada geez they are paying him big bucks

Wingless · 11-11-2004, 08:38 PM

From kevinrose.com:

Quote:

Today many of my friends were let go as the network made changes to revamp for new shows. Unscrewed was canceled, and The Screen Savers is being revamped.

The Screen Savers -
As I’m sure many of you have heard, we lost Alex, Dan, Yoshi, and several behind the scene producers…

They're cancelling Unscrewed? Is there any original TechTV show that's still on the network? (besides X-Play) It's official now - G4TechTV sucks. There's nothing more to it.

And with The Screen Savers, they're getting rid of Yoshi, the last remnant of the good old days of TechTV.

Screw you G4Tech. You've completely lost another viewer.

blar · 11-11-2004, 08:55 PM

WTF yoshi is gone too what the hell are they doing.....

and unscrewed is cancelled!! liked martin wow G4techtv is going down hill

ratbastid · 11-12-2004, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevlya006

and the old school call for help with i think his name was chris was badass..

Chris Pirillo. Major dork. Exactly the kind of weeny computer-geek high-school kid you want answering your tech questions. In short, he did a great job with the show, but few people could stand to watch more than a couple minutes of it.

I too mourn the TSS Good Old Days. Leo, Pat, Megan, and Morgan made my afternoons for a while there! Morgan gets all the dool these days, but remember that Megan was a cutie, too!

wolf · 11-12-2004, 07:27 AM

TSS definitely sucks now. I used to watch it all the time, but it has become unbearable. I can't stand G4, why take something that works and change it? What was wrong with TechTV the way it was. OK maybe they needed more funding so a larger fish came along and swallowed them up, but why does that mean that things need to change? I still watch X Play since that really hasn't changed. If Morgan Webb left, I don't think I could watch 30 minutes of Adam Sessler minus eye candy.

brandon11983 · 11-12-2004, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

I too mourn the TSS Good Old Days. Leo, Pat, Megan, and Morgan made my afternoons for a while there! Morgan gets all the dool these days, but remember that Megan was a cutie, too!

I couldn't have said it better myself. I remember the good ol' days. TSS was on at 6pm, and I'd have it waiting for me in the PVR list when I got home at 6:30. The new (soon to be old TSS v2.0) is nothing like what it was with Leo, Pat, and co.

blar · 11-12-2004, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandon11983

I couldn't have said it better myself. I remember the good ol' days. TSS was on at 6pm, and I'd have it waiting for me in the PVR list when I got home at 6:30. The new (soon to be old TSS v2.0) is nothing like what it was with Leo, Pat, and co.

i used to watch it at 8am awww the good old days

what happen to KAT?? anyone know??

Slavakion · 11-12-2004, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingless

And with The Screen Savers, they're getting rid of Yoshi, the last remnant of the good old days of TechTV.

Oh, come on. Yoshi's the man! Who's gonna do all the mods now? Argh...

ratbastid · 11-13-2004, 08:34 AM

Here's Alex's take on the TSS changes from his <a href="http://alexalbrecht.typepad.com/">Blog</a>:

Quote:

Well I've officially been let go... along with a bunch of other people from TSS and three other shows. Kevin and Sarah are the only ones left on screen and I don't know what they are planning to do with them. The Screen Savers as you know it is GONE! We were rounded up today at 11am and told to be out of the office at 3pm... very smooth... So I wanted to take this time to say, Thank you... thank you to all of you who gave me the chance to enter your living rooms five days a week and try my best to make you smile. You, the fans of TSS, really made me feel like a million bucks. I know it was hard for some of you to see Patrick go, but I really appreciate you all giving me a chance. I just wish I could have more time to get to know you all...

It has been one of the best experiences of my life... Thank you...

- Alex Albrecht

PS - I love you all... Kevin, Sarah, Dan, Yoshi, Joshua, Scott, Robert "the man", Tom, Teresa, Sean, Prager, Jeff, Adam, Paul, Ron, The Crew and everyone else involved in the show...

mrap1 · 11-13-2004, 09:54 AM

Wow, Alex makes it sound even worse than I thought. I hate the new direction the new TSS was taking, Alex makes it sound like it's going even more so in that direction. I mean the new TSS they were producing was starting to look more and more like something that belonged on Spike TV, not a channel about technology.

Ultimate_Gohan · 11-13-2004, 10:20 PM

Its good that you can talk about hating G4 because if say the slightest thing about Alex or how bad G4Tech is, its an automatic ban from the site. Can you belive that, it thought it was a message board and tips on how to improve the show. It's like the "Rock Says" IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Complain to them and you get thrown out.

brandon11983 · 11-29-2004, 08:56 PM

Anyone catch the *new* new Screen Savers tonight? I think it is the first of the new episodes. Looks like they took one of the tools from G4tv.com as the new cohost. That Chi Lan broad is ok. But just ok. He even pointed out how much people are going after him on the forums. Time to see how this one plays out.

rocinante2003 · 11-30-2004, 07:07 AM

WOW, that show royally sucked

Sbudda · 11-30-2004, 11:10 AM

I had watched the show religiously for a few years - I didn't like it when Leo left, but I could deal with it because I actually liked Kevin - and Leo still had Call for Help (the best show for his personality). When it was just Patrick and Kevin I still liked it because Patrick kept Kevin grounded. When Patrick left and Alex took over it was like they were aiming for a totally different demographic though.

The old show used to have about 25% of it's time set aside for n00bs, 25% set aside for tech news and the rest for the hardcore geek. Now they have 5% tech news, 20% for stupid celebrity interviews and the rest for talking crap for the absolutely lowest common denominator (Kevin talking about his sex life - which would really piss me off if I were Sarah). I'm not an Alex hater - but he didn't know much about anything. With the old show you had the impression that the hosts actually knew what they were talking about, with Alex you could tell he was just a cue card reader.

Oh well, it's obvious that G4 is aiming for a different viewer than me. Which is sad because I freakin loved the show before.

I can't believe they fired Yoshi. He was the only one of the younger generation with legit skillz.

mrap1 · 11-30-2004, 03:20 PM

I don't get why they fired Alex to replace him with Pereira. It's not like Pereira is funnier or more tech savy. In my opinion, and maybe it's not a fair one cause it's only been one show, but Pereira is inferior to Alex in every way. And the new guy taking calls is pretty much Foo without the stammering, what's the point?

It's funny how Kevin Rose stepped down as host yet he was on almost as much as the other guys. He probably did a smart thing because its obvious this new show isn't going to get much better; this way when it fails he won't get blamed for it.

Is the show still actually live anymore? If so again, what's the point? They take maybe one call per show, and they totally rehearse the answer before hand.

brandon11983 · 03-18-2005, 10:33 PM

Well I'm sure we have all heard the sad news. The Screen Savers has been cance...err renamed. It is going to be called "Attack of the Show" as of March 28th. I may have said it before, but this is truly the final nail in the coffin. I was crusing through the G4Tec....err G4 forums and saw this:

Seeing that genuinely made me sad. I am really going to miss TSS. And I know everyone know what show I am really referring to.

Evil_Timmy · 03-19-2005, 06:18 AM

That really is a shame. I used to watch it back when it was on ZDTV (ages ago), with Leo and Kate. They were nerds, yes, but they knew what they were talking about, and quickly adapted to using their geek skills live in front of a camera. For a long while, it was a definite daily watch, and the level of interactivity, being able to call or email during the show and get your questions answered, was awesome. It didn't just pander to newbies, either...even in the most basic explanations, there'd be some bit of trivia or useful tidbit for the hardcore geeks in the audience. And you could tell they knew precisely what they were talking about, whether or not they were reading it off a a teleprompter. Constantly entertaining, constantly educational, and now the last vestiges of what was once the greatest computer show in existence are gone.

Slavakion · 03-19-2005, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandon11983

Well I'm sure we have all heard the sad news. The Screen Savers has been cance...err renamed. It is going to be called "Attack of the Show" as of March 28th. I may have said it before, but this is truly the final nail in the coffin.

Wait... seriously? "Attack of the Show"? WTF kinda name is that? Will the next summer blockbuster (oops, I mean flop) be called "Attack of the movie"? How about "Attack of the Novel"?

Demeter · 03-19-2005, 09:53 AM

"Attack Of The Show"??????
Lameass morons. I guess it just goes to show you exactly how stupid this outfit is. At least they are no longer fouling the Screensavers name.

brandon11983 · 03-20-2005, 11:54 AM

G4TechTV is actually still G4TechTV in Canada. Call For Help with Leo (!!) is available there. Oh to be Canadian!

You think G4 would pay attention and realize that TSS was the best thing going for them. TSS forum activity is 2000 topics higher than the second place X-Play (a TechTV original as we all know) and 4000 higher than G4.com. Most of the activity is negative against the name switch.

Wingless · 03-21-2005, 08:31 AM

Honestly I have no problem that TSS is changing to a new name.

But Attack of the Show? WHAT THE FUCK!

So the only TechTV shows left are.... X-Play and RobotWars (which is just leftover BBC drivel).

Lasereth · 03-21-2005, 09:59 AM

I never liked the first TSS but the new one is abysmal. Me and my roommate watch it every now and then and always turn it. Has anyone noticed that all they do now is show the viewers random crappy websites they found on the Internet or stupid .swf movies? How can this be shown on TV? This is a truly worthless show.

*EDIT*

I LOVE ROBOT WARS!!! I seriously like that show. The announcer is annoying and the contestants are annoying but the actual show is very entertaining. There's a lot of ingenuity put into those robots. Some of them are pure technological genious. What more could you ask for than 300 pound metal robots FIGHTING EACH OTHER?? YEE-HAW!!!

-Lasereth

Wingless · 03-21-2005, 02:45 PM

Heh, I was wondering if anyone would be offended with the RobotWars comment

Lasereth · 03-21-2005, 04:14 PM

<IMG SRC=http://www.btinternet.com/~patricks.web/robots/craig1.JPG>

OH YEAH!! Ha ha I seriously love that show. I know a lot of the robot's names. Get'em Razer!!

-Lasereth

09-17-2004, 10:48 PM	#41 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	I'm watching the iPod vs. the digital music player world episode. If Kevin or Alex say "thats awesome" one more time, I will kill them. Or myself. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

09-19-2004, 06:56 AM	#44 (permalink)
Ralvek Crazy Location: MN	I agree, the whole thing sucks. I used to love that they replayed it multupile times each do so I could watch before I went to bed. That show is the sole reason I have digital cable, but now I am debating about saying hasta luego to it. __________________ Ban country music, it promotes inbreeding.

09-19-2004, 11:49 AM	#46 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Again, I'm not arguing that the videocard won't be bottlenecked. I'm simply arguing that a videocard upgrade will benefit today's games way more than a processor upgrade. For the system you mentioned, the same would apply. A newer videocard would benefit way more than a new processor, even if the videocard was only $200. To illustrate my point more clearly, I took some screenshots of the tests I keep referencing. We'll talk about an Athlon XP 2000+ system with a GeForce 6800 Ultra. What a killer system!! But only if it had a better processor to make the games run better...right? Wrong. The processor is fine. Look what happens when ya upgrade the processor to an Athlon XP 3200+: <IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/processortest.jpg> The average FPS for Doom 3 at the highest settings was 46 with the 2000+. Upgrading from the old 2000+ to a 3200+ increases the frames per second from 46 to 67. Not a big increase, but worth mentioning. A 45% increase in frames per second. The game went from playable to playable. 15 FPS is barely noticeable when the game is already running fine with a 6800 Ultra. Now, we'll take a look at a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 system. Think about how awesome this processor is! 3.2 GHz!! The system was tested first with a GeForce FX 5200 Ultra. <IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/videocardtest.jpg> Doom 3 runs at a mere <B>11.3</B> frames per second. That's right, 11.3. Remember that this is the same resolution as the wimpy Athlon XP 2000+ system with the 6800 Ultra that ran it at 45 frames per second. Now, the videocard in the 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 system is replaced with a GeForce 6800 Ultra: <IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/videocardtest1.jpg> The frames per second just jumped to...68.6. So a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with a low-to-midrange videocard (GeForce FX 5200 Ultra) at 11.3 frames per second jumped to 68.6 frames per second with a videocard upgrade. That's a <B>607%</B> increase in raw performance from using a better videocard. Which would you rather upgrade...the videocard, which gives a 600% increase in power with games, or a processor, which gives a 45% increase in power when the game was already playable? Going with a low-end processor and a high-end videocard is obviously better than going with a low-end videocard and a high-end processor. This is laid out clearly. This information doesn't apply to non-gamers. The videocard doesn't matter for non-gamers. This is simply for people wondering which aspect of your PC matters when upgrading. Using a top of the line 6800 Ultra with an old Athlon XP 2000+ proved to be nearly 500% better than using a blazing 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with a GeForce FX 5200 Ultra. I can't explain it any more clearly. The results are here: videocard matters more. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert Last edited by Lasereth; 09-19-2004 at 11:52 AM..

09-19-2004, 09:54 PM	#50 (permalink)
Draconis Insane Location: Normandy, June of '44	Lasereth: Good fucking point. I was considering overclocking right after D3 first came out, but researched it and found that replacing my old vid card - POS, sorry ATI - with the 6800 would help way more. Very happy with it. One last thing to say, considering this thread is on TechTV: We need more Morgan Webb. There needs to be an all Morgan Webb channel. I don't care how deep cable it is. Fuck it, they already have ZTV copyrighted. Put her out in deep cable under that name and I shit you not, the geeks would come running. __________________ STEVE MCKENNA!

11-11-2004, 08:09 PM	#56 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	Ho-ly shit. That sucks. TSS is finally in the pooper. They were looking down but not out with the loss of Leo and Patrick, and the final nail is now in the coffin. A sad day... __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

09-19-2004, 07:22 AM	#45 (permalink)
catback Psycho Location: North America	Lasereth: I must say of all the gamers I know your the only one that would be fine with an average processor so long as the video card was fast as f**k. I guess there are all types but had me or anyone I know had $500-$600 bucks and an average gaming computer, none of us would spend all or even nearly all of it on video card upgrade alone. For example take a Athlon XP 1500+, 384MB DDR, Geforce 4 Ti 4600, 60 gig hd, with $500-$600 bucks it really doesn't improve your computer $500-$600 bucks worth when your just swapping the Geforce 4 for a 6800 Ultra or a Radeon X800 XT. Yes doom 3 will look prettier but it won't run faster and it won't make the computer as a whole faster. If you wanna blow $500 now to just make doom 3 look pretty thats fine by me but the money could be better spent on the system as a whole instead of just doom 3. Also before I go further everyone is entitled to run whatever kind of system they want but when you recommend something to someone else you should recommend what they want and not what you want. If a dad calls you up and says his son got doom 3 for his birthday but it runs terrible on the family computer and he has $500 to upgrade the computer right now, the right recommendation isn't a $500 video card unless the whole family only plays doom 3 and other video games on the computer. To almost everyone else, alot of kevin haters I C. I wonder if you hate kevin cuse of kevin or because of the leo, patrick, host no more thing. No reply needed really because I think he's alright and not a dumbass as some here are quick and/or eager to point out. All in all I don't care about anything except for G4 makes and turns good shows into crap, damn comcast monopoly. Where are our anti-monopoly laws when a non-microsoft company tries to take over everything. Around here comcast wants into everything, they already have cable tv, internet, phone, television station. Every year they get into something else and their prices are rediculous.

09-19-2004, 04:06 PM	#47 (permalink)
mrap1 Insane Location: NY	While this does lend some credence to your argument the first test isn't really a good indicator. An XP 2000+ should hardly be considered a bad, or even low range processor. Although, the second test with a very fast processor and a slow video card does prove your point perfectly.

09-30-2004, 03:10 PM	#52 (permalink)
catback Psycho Location: North America	Lasereth: Not that it really matters or I care but I don't know that many rich people or people that only use their computers for gaming. $500 for just a video card is out of almost everyone I know's league. It doesn't matter how wicked the video card is if the price is out of your reach. If you can afford a bleeding edge video card you should be able to afford a bleeding edge or close to processor along with everything else computer. I never did say I recommended processor over video card for any gamer but I still don't disagree with kevin recommending a processor. We don't know if the person had a game only machine or if gaming was just a hobby so you can't really say anything is better over the other. As far as all those benchmarks they really only test video card speed and not processor speed, also what self respecting gamer is going to buy a GFX5200? The 5200 doesn't even keep up with a GF4 Ti 4600. Another thing about your benchmarks, they're wrong I've seen an ATI Radeon 9600XT bench better than 17.6 fps on a AMD Athlon XP 2000+ so it definitely is gonna do better on a 3.2Ghz pentium 4. All in all it still boils down to you haven't shown that kevin was wrong. Further than that I don't care anymore, I know my pc and game stuff and utilize it for function rather than debate. Back to the main subject at hand. I was recently able to watch the new screen savers and I must say OMG G4 has transformed it into absolute crap. Everything about the show from the script, set, dialogue, topics is crap. What the hell was that overclocking a toothbrush crap. Seriously who really yearns to shave milli-seconds off their brushing time at the risk if harming their gums. I couldn't even watch the whole hour, after 30 mins it was clear that tss was forever lost/murdered by G4. Comcast is the devil and should go back to hell.

09-30-2004, 07:33 PM	#53 (permalink)
mrap1 Insane Location: NY	The only thing I like better about the new show is that they are a little more daring and loose. Patrick was such a stiff and formal guy, compared to Albrect. Not that Albrect is better than Patrick, but I always got the sense that Patrick wanted to say a little more but held his tongue for whatever reason... Oh yeah, and there is way more eye candy now than before.

11-11-2004, 07:16 PM	#55 (permalink)
mrap1 Insane Location: NY	Back to the topic, it looks like The Screensavers is going to change once again. www.kevinrose.com I can't say that I'm too dissapointed, the new TSS was totally stupid, they moved away from most real tech stuff.

11-11-2004, 08:24 PM	#57 (permalink)
blar Insane	OMG patrick left!?!?!?1 noooo damn i have not watched techtv since G4 bought them out do they still allow kevin to talk about xbox modding because that in my mind is why he became popular Does KAT still work for techtv?? or she left?? yea Leo has his own show on G4techtv canada geez they are paying him big bucks

11-11-2004, 08:55 PM	#59 (permalink)
blar Insane	WTF yoshi is gone too what the hell are they doing..... and unscrewed is cancelled!! liked martin wow G4techtv is going down hill

11-12-2004, 07:27 AM	#61 (permalink)
wolf Ravenous Location: Right Behind You	TSS definitely sucks now. I used to watch it all the time, but it has become unbearable. I can't stand G4, why take something that works and change it? What was wrong with TechTV the way it was. OK maybe they needed more funding so a larger fish came along and swallowed them up, but why does that mean that things need to change? I still watch X Play since that really hasn't changed. If Morgan Webb left, I don't think I could watch 30 minutes of Adam Sessler minus eye candy. __________________ Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.

11-13-2004, 09:54 AM	#66 (permalink)
mrap1 Insane Location: NY	Wow, Alex makes it sound even worse than I thought. I hate the new direction the new TSS was taking, Alex makes it sound like it's going even more so in that direction. I mean the new TSS they were producing was starting to look more and more like something that belonged on Spike TV, not a channel about technology.

11-13-2004, 10:20 PM	#67 (permalink)
Ultimate_Gohan Upright	Its good that you can talk about hating G4 because if say the slightest thing about Alex or how bad G4Tech is, its an automatic ban from the site. Can you belive that, it thought it was a message board and tips on how to improve the show. It's like the "Rock Says" IT DOESN'T MATTER. Complain to them and you get thrown out.

11-29-2004, 08:56 PM	#68 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	Anyone catch the new new Screen Savers tonight? I think it is the first of the new episodes. Looks like they took one of the tools from G4tv.com as the new cohost. That Chi Lan broad is ok. But just ok. He even pointed out how much people are going after him on the forums. Time to see how this one plays out. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

11-30-2004, 07:07 AM	#69 (permalink)
rocinante2003 Insane Location: Dallas	WOW, that show royally sucked

11-30-2004, 11:10 AM	#70 (permalink)
Sbudda Tilted Location: Atl	I had watched the show religiously for a few years - I didn't like it when Leo left, but I could deal with it because I actually liked Kevin - and Leo still had Call for Help (the best show for his personality). When it was just Patrick and Kevin I still liked it because Patrick kept Kevin grounded. When Patrick left and Alex took over it was like they were aiming for a totally different demographic though. The old show used to have about 25% of it's time set aside for n00bs, 25% set aside for tech news and the rest for the hardcore geek. Now they have 5% tech news, 20% for stupid celebrity interviews and the rest for talking crap for the absolutely lowest common denominator (Kevin talking about his sex life - which would really piss me off if I were Sarah). I'm not an Alex hater - but he didn't know much about anything. With the old show you had the impression that the hosts actually knew what they were talking about, with Alex you could tell he was just a cue card reader. Oh well, it's obvious that G4 is aiming for a different viewer than me. Which is sad because I freakin loved the show before. I can't believe they fired Yoshi. He was the only one of the younger generation with legit skillz.

11-30-2004, 03:20 PM	#71 (permalink)
mrap1 Insane Location: NY	I don't get why they fired Alex to replace him with Pereira. It's not like Pereira is funnier or more tech savy. In my opinion, and maybe it's not a fair one cause it's only been one show, but Pereira is inferior to Alex in every way. And the new guy taking calls is pretty much Foo without the stammering, what's the point? It's funny how Kevin Rose stepped down as host yet he was on almost as much as the other guys. He probably did a smart thing because its obvious this new show isn't going to get much better; this way when it fails he won't get blamed for it. Is the show still actually live anymore? If so again, what's the point? They take maybe one call per show, and they totally rehearse the answer before hand.

03-18-2005, 10:33 PM	#72 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	Well I'm sure we have all heard the sad news. The Screen Savers has been cance...err renamed. It is going to be called "Attack of the Show" as of March 28th. I may have said it before, but this is truly the final nail in the coffin. I was crusing through the G4Tec....err G4 forums and saw this: Seeing that genuinely made me sad. I am really going to miss TSS. And I know everyone know what show I am really referring to. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history. Last edited by brandon11983; 03-18-2005 at 10:35 PM..

03-19-2005, 06:18 AM	#73 (permalink)
Evil_Timmy Upright	That really is a shame. I used to watch it back when it was on ZDTV (ages ago), with Leo and Kate. They were nerds, yes, but they knew what they were talking about, and quickly adapted to using their geek skills live in front of a camera. For a long while, it was a definite daily watch, and the level of interactivity, being able to call or email during the show and get your questions answered, was awesome. It didn't just pander to newbies, either...even in the most basic explanations, there'd be some bit of trivia or useful tidbit for the hardcore geeks in the audience. And you could tell they knew precisely what they were talking about, whether or not they were reading it off a a teleprompter. Constantly entertaining, constantly educational, and now the last vestiges of what was once the greatest computer show in existence are gone.

03-19-2005, 09:53 AM	#75 (permalink)
Demeter Psycho	"Attack Of The Show"?????? Lameass morons. I guess it just goes to show you exactly how stupid this outfit is. At least they are no longer fouling the Screensavers name.

03-20-2005, 11:54 AM	#76 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	G4TechTV is actually still G4TechTV in Canada. Call For Help with Leo (!!) is available there. Oh to be Canadian! You think G4 would pay attention and realize that TSS was the best thing going for them. TSS forum activity is 2000 topics higher than the second place X-Play (a TechTV original as we all know) and 4000 higher than G4.com. Most of the activity is negative against the name switch. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

03-21-2005, 08:31 AM	#77 (permalink)
Wingless Psycho Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA	Honestly I have no problem that TSS is changing to a new name. But Attack of the Show? WHAT THE FUCK! So the only TechTV shows left are.... X-Play and RobotWars (which is just leftover BBC drivel). __________________ Tommy Nibs is a funny word. So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall... You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you. Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor

03-21-2005, 09:59 AM	#78 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I never liked the first TSS but the new one is abysmal. Me and my roommate watch it every now and then and always turn it. Has anyone noticed that all they do now is show the viewers random crappy websites they found on the Internet or stupid .swf movies? How can this be shown on TV? This is a truly worthless show. EDIT I LOVE ROBOT WARS!!! I seriously like that show. The announcer is annoying and the contestants are annoying but the actual show is very entertaining. There's a lot of ingenuity put into those robots. Some of them are pure technological genious. What more could you ask for than 300 pound metal robots FIGHTING EACH OTHER?? YEE-HAW!!! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

03-21-2005, 02:45 PM	#79 (permalink)
Wingless Psycho Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA	Heh, I was wondering if anyone would be offended with the RobotWars comment __________________ Tommy Nibs is a funny word. So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall... You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you. Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor

03-21-2005, 04:14 PM	#80 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	<IMG SRC=http://www.btinternet.com/~patricks.web/robots/craig1.JPG> OH YEAH!! Ha ha I seriously love that show. I know a lot of the robot's names. Get'em Razer!! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert