Question about moving video from miniDV to PC for editing - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

scavengertype · 10-10-2003, 07:30 AM

My work has a Sony DCR-PC110, and I want to use it to transfer some old family Super-8 films to DVD.
It's a sweet camera, but it doesn't seem to have a regular firewire (it has iLink) or USB 2.0.

In order to shoot video and then bring it to the PC to edit and burn to DVD, would I have to record it to the miniDV casette, and then record it to my PC using the VIVO port on my Nvidia GeForce Ti4200? Could I record directly to the PC using the VIVO port? Is iLink the same as firewire, and could I use that?

Does anyone have any experience in this, and can you offer me some advice? I would like to have the DVDs ready for christmas, and I would like to be able to get them done in a weekend without too many problems.

Thanks

Redlemon · 10-10-2003, 07:54 AM

iLink is Sony's name for Firewire. You just need a cable that looks right on both ends; Best Buy or someplace like that can hook you up.

scavengertype · 10-10-2003, 08:03 AM

Thanks,

so if I plug that in, how do i tranfser video that way? Virtualdub?

Redlemon · 10-10-2003, 08:53 AM

I'm a Mac user (and I only just got my Sony digicam, haven't even transferred anything off of the tape yet), so I have no further advice to give you. Sorry.

damhna · 10-10-2003, 09:06 AM

You will need a capture utility.
I use adobe premiere.

Your camera will have come with some sofware too.
My cannon has some useful enough sofware called Presto Video Works

You can also try Microsft's Movie Maker

You are going to need a lot of space both for your swap file and storage. I captured about 2 hours and it was almost 12GB (mind you I had compression off.

damhna · 10-10-2003, 09:08 AM

Once on the PC going to DVD requires sthge software that came with the burner. Or you could look at something like http://www.sonic.com/products/mydvd/default.asp

scavengertype · 10-10-2003, 10:25 AM

Thanks.
To clarify, I am somewhat familiar with capturing video, but I would rather transfer the video via Firewire to the PC, which wouldn't really be capturing it, correct? I am not familiar with miniDV, is it similar do digital video in that I could just copy the digital file off the tape and onto my HD?
Or, could I connect the live video signal from the camera to Premiere, Virtualdub, etc, and capture it live as I shoot the Super 8 movies?

krd913 · 10-10-2003, 04:33 PM

I use Pinnacle program to down load my minidv and it works well not sure if they have a ver. for the mac or not

charliex · 10-10-2003, 05:03 PM

my sonydv cam came with software or i can use windows movie maker, when it 'captures' it really just streams in the data and saves it (depending on how you config the software) as a raw stream so it doesnt' lose info. it doesn't sample capture it as say a TV capture card would do.

Scorpion23 · 10-10-2003, 06:43 PM

Transfering the video from the miniDV tape to the computer would yield a much higher quality video than a simple tv capture. The reason is that the miniDV tape is really the same as a tape drive. The video signal is encoded in a digital file at 3.5Mbits/sec., so when you use the firewire connection all you're doing is transfering a digital file to your computer. That means no quality loss and no data degradation. It also doesn't require your PC to encode the video since it's already in DV format.
If you use tv capture instead your computer has to re-encode the video stream, which takes cpu time, and record the video file to your HD. This tends to give much lower quality video than direct file transfer.

In short, there is no reason not to use digital transfer with firewire if you have access to it. Also, premiere is the best package i've found out there for video editing, although it'll cost you around $500.

damhna · 10-12-2003, 05:08 AM

I think that capture might be the wrong word. Perhaps we are all misunderstanding.

Transfer via FW is what I do (thanks for the info scorpion23) but to the best of my knowledge it is impossible to access your media as though it were a file system. You cannot copy the file directly.

Now Scorpion23 might well bw able to advise if I am wrong on that but if he does Im hiotting my head off the nearest wall.

Scorpion23 , if you can advise. In premiere(6.0) I am using the FILE>>CAPTURE>>BATCH CAPTURE to sieze movies from my miniDV camcorder. That is the right way yea ?

Scorpion23 · 10-12-2003, 06:30 AM

Sorry about the confusion.
damhna: You are correct about not being able to access the file system directly. A program is needed (Premiere) to pull the movie off the camera and onto the computer.

The thing that makes miniDV, DV, and DVpro great is that the camera takes the digital signal coming from the CCD, and converts it into a digital video file with the DV format using encoding hardware in the camera. This file is a constant 3.5Mbits/sec. in bandwidth. This results in a digital video file recorded onto a video tape in much the same way as computer systems use tape drives, they can store a lot of information but must be accessed linearly. In this way a miniDV tape can hold about 13GB of data. This differs from traditional camcorders, which record an analog signal onto the tape.

Since the miniDV tape is in a digital format it allows for lossless data transfer to another camcorder, computer, etc. as long as a digital transfer method such as Firewire is used.
Although the video file on the tape is in digital format, it must still be accessed through a program such as premiere in order to transfer it to a computer. However, since the file is already digital the computer only has to write it to the hard drive as it comes in from the camera. This is why you must have a HD capable of sustained write speeds >3.5Mbits/sec.. A slower write speed will result in errors since the miniDV tape transfers data at a steady rate and can’t recover from lag in the same way as a HD. This process is referred to as capturing.

When you capture an analog video file the computer must use considerable CPU time to convert the analog signal into a digital file, as well as write to the HD at a constant speed. This can cause dropped frames, lower quality video, and a host of other problems.

damhna’s method of capture in Premiere is the standard way to do it. Settings located elsewhere in the program determine what format it expects the file to be in, although if your Firewire cable is hooked up and you’re seeing video then it’s a digital transfer.

In short, the media on a miniDV tape is a digital file, although it must be accessed through a proxy program such as Premiere in order to transfer it to the computer.
And miniDV with digital transfer is superior to analog in every way I’ve seen.

I hope I’ve cleared up any questions, I’ll post some links to a few guides on miniDV and DV editing when I get back to my apartment tonight.

damhna · 10-12-2003, 06:36 AM

Thanks a bunch.

Its been working fine but I had to find a 2nd HDD to deal with the file sizes.

Appreciate the tech rundown

scavengertype · 10-13-2003, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scorpion23

This results in a digital video file recorded onto a video tape in much the same way as computer systems use tape drives,

Thanks, Scorpion, I guess that is the answer I was looking for, make much sense.

Anxiously awaiting those links...

Ganguro · 10-13-2003, 08:36 AM

in the department we used to use Vegas Video to pull the video from the tapes for editing. Vegas is a lot cheaper than the adobe products and is pretty intuative. Though if you already have those software programs at your fingertips, they would be the way to go. Good luck! It's good to see someone doing something productive and asking nice tech questions that i actually know something about

Scorpion23 · 10-14-2003, 02:10 PM

Sorry about the delay on the links. The first one gives an overview of the entire process, and is very useful. The second is another one I found on the web, but it's more brand oriented. I had a few others but they've apparently been pulled from the sites.

http://www.adobe.com/education/pdf/dvprimer.pdf

http://www.shortcourses.com/video/

10-10-2003, 07:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
scavengertype Tilted	Question about moving video from miniDV to PC for editing My work has a Sony DCR-PC110, and I want to use it to transfer some old family Super-8 films to DVD. It's a sweet camera, but it doesn't seem to have a regular firewire (it has iLink) or USB 2.0. In order to shoot video and then bring it to the PC to edit and burn to DVD, would I have to record it to the miniDV casette, and then record it to my PC using the VIVO port on my Nvidia GeForce Ti4200? Could I record directly to the PC using the VIVO port? Is iLink the same as firewire, and could I use that? Does anyone have any experience in this, and can you offer me some advice? I would like to have the DVDs ready for christmas, and I would like to be able to get them done in a weekend without too many problems. Thanks

10-10-2003, 07:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	iLink is Sony's name for Firewire. You just need a cable that looks right on both ends; Best Buy or someplace like that can hook you up. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

10-10-2003, 08:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	I'm a Mac user (and I only just got my Sony digicam, haven't even transferred anything off of the tape yet), so I have no further advice to give you. Sorry. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

10-10-2003, 06:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
Scorpion23 Psycho	Transfering the video from the miniDV tape to the computer would yield a much higher quality video than a simple tv capture. The reason is that the miniDV tape is really the same as a tape drive. The video signal is encoded in a digital file at 3.5Mbits/sec., so when you use the firewire connection all you're doing is transfering a digital file to your computer. That means no quality loss and no data degradation. It also doesn't require your PC to encode the video since it's already in DV format. If you use tv capture instead your computer has to re-encode the video stream, which takes cpu time, and record the video file to your HD. This tends to give much lower quality video than direct file transfer. In short, there is no reason not to use digital transfer with firewire if you have access to it. Also, premiere is the best package i've found out there for video editing, although it'll cost you around $500. __________________ "Empirically observed covariation is a necessary but not sufficient condition for causality" - Edward Tufte

10-12-2003, 06:30 AM	#12 (permalink)
Scorpion23 Psycho	Sorry about the confusion. damhna: You are correct about not being able to access the file system directly. A program is needed (Premiere) to pull the movie off the camera and onto the computer. The thing that makes miniDV, DV, and DVpro great is that the camera takes the digital signal coming from the CCD, and converts it into a digital video file with the DV format using encoding hardware in the camera. This file is a constant 3.5Mbits/sec. in bandwidth. This results in a digital video file recorded onto a video tape in much the same way as computer systems use tape drives, they can store a lot of information but must be accessed linearly. In this way a miniDV tape can hold about 13GB of data. This differs from traditional camcorders, which record an analog signal onto the tape. Since the miniDV tape is in a digital format it allows for lossless data transfer to another camcorder, computer, etc. as long as a digital transfer method such as Firewire is used. Although the video file on the tape is in digital format, it must still be accessed through a program such as premiere in order to transfer it to a computer. However, since the file is already digital the computer only has to write it to the hard drive as it comes in from the camera. This is why you must have a HD capable of sustained write speeds >3.5Mbits/sec.. A slower write speed will result in errors since the miniDV tape transfers data at a steady rate and can’t recover from lag in the same way as a HD. This process is referred to as capturing. When you capture an analog video file the computer must use considerable CPU time to convert the analog signal into a digital file, as well as write to the HD at a constant speed. This can cause dropped frames, lower quality video, and a host of other problems. damhna’s method of capture in Premiere is the standard way to do it. Settings located elsewhere in the program determine what format it expects the file to be in, although if your Firewire cable is hooked up and you’re seeing video then it’s a digital transfer. In short, the media on a miniDV tape is a digital file, although it must be accessed through a proxy program such as Premiere in order to transfer it to the computer. And miniDV with digital transfer is superior to analog in every way I’ve seen. I hope I’ve cleared up any questions, I’ll post some links to a few guides on miniDV and DV editing when I get back to my apartment tonight. __________________ "Empirically observed covariation is a necessary but not sufficient condition for causality" - Edward Tufte

10-10-2003, 08:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
scavengertype Tilted	Thanks, so if I plug that in, how do i tranfser video that way? Virtualdub?

10-10-2003, 09:06 AM	#5 (permalink)
damhna Tilted	You will need a capture utility. I use adobe premiere. Your camera will have come with some sofware too. My cannon has some useful enough sofware called Presto Video Works You can also try Microsft's Movie Maker You are going to need a lot of space both for your swap file and storage. I captured about 2 hours and it was almost 12GB (mind you I had compression off.

10-10-2003, 09:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
damhna Tilted	Once on the PC going to DVD requires sthge software that came with the burner. Or you could look at something like http://www.sonic.com/products/mydvd/default.asp

10-10-2003, 10:25 AM	#7 (permalink)
scavengertype Tilted	Thanks. To clarify, I am somewhat familiar with capturing video, but I would rather transfer the video via Firewire to the PC, which wouldn't really be capturing it, correct? I am not familiar with miniDV, is it similar do digital video in that I could just copy the digital file off the tape and onto my HD? Or, could I connect the live video signal from the camera to Premiere, Virtualdub, etc, and capture it live as I shoot the Super 8 movies?

10-10-2003, 04:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
krd913 Crazy	I use Pinnacle program to down load my minidv and it works well not sure if they have a ver. for the mac or not

10-10-2003, 05:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	my sonydv cam came with software or i can use windows movie maker, when it 'captures' it really just streams in the data and saves it (depending on how you config the software) as a raw stream so it doesnt' lose info. it doesn't sample capture it as say a TV capture card would do.

10-12-2003, 05:08 AM	#11 (permalink)
damhna Tilted	I think that capture might be the wrong word. Perhaps we are all misunderstanding. Transfer via FW is what I do (thanks for the info scorpion23) but to the best of my knowledge it is impossible to access your media as though it were a file system. You cannot copy the file directly. Now Scorpion23 might well bw able to advise if I am wrong on that but if he does Im hiotting my head off the nearest wall. Scorpion23 , if you can advise. In premiere(6.0) I am using the FILE>>CAPTURE>>BATCH CAPTURE to sieze movies from my miniDV camcorder. That is the right way yea ?

10-12-2003, 06:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
damhna Tilted	Thanks a bunch. Its been working fine but I had to find a 2nd HDD to deal with the file sizes. Appreciate the tech rundown

10-13-2003, 08:36 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ganguro Army of Me	in the department we used to use Vegas Video to pull the video from the tapes for editing. Vegas is a lot cheaper than the adobe products and is pretty intuative. Though if you already have those software programs at your fingertips, they would be the way to go. Good luck! It's good to see someone doing something productive and asking nice tech questions that i actually know something about

10-14-2003, 02:10 PM	#16 (permalink)
Scorpion23 Psycho	Sorry about the delay on the links. The first one gives an overview of the entire process, and is very useful. The second is another one I found on the web, but it's more brand oriented. I had a few others but they've apparently been pulled from the sites. http://www.adobe.com/education/pdf/dvprimer.pdf http://www.shortcourses.com/video/ __________________ "Empirically observed covariation is a necessary but not sufficient condition for causality" - Edward Tufte