lurkette

http://www.velocity.net/~galen/androgyn.html

Sorry I couldn't find an electronic version of the Bem Androgyny Test, but this is a pretty quick pen-and-paper version.

I'm curious as to how people will fall in the spectrum, and what your thoughts are on

1. how reasonable it is to characterize traits as "masculine" and "feminine"
2. how you feel about people (yourself or others) possessing traits that are supposedly stronger in the opposite gender?

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quadro2000

Interesting.

I'm not surprised with my results, but I'm also not so comfortable with how I came out.

(drum roll please) -25.

The reason I'm not surprised is because I've always thought of myself as much more feminine. I'm really sensitive, I'm very caring, I don't play sports, oh and I also gave myself a "5" on "feminine," maybe that did it. But that being said, I'm not comfortable with it being there on plain paper. It makes me uncomfortable. I think it'd be easy for me to say, "oh, you are who you are, who cares how you're labeled," but it feels differently. It makes me feel a little insecure.

I understand why certain traits would be characterized as "masculine" or "feminine," and for the most part I'd like to say it doesn't bother me, as long as I remind myself that there are plenty of exceptions to any of those rules. (Me being one huge exception.) Obviously, though, I'm not doing a good job of reminding myself, as I'm feeling really weird about my score.

I remember, growing up, that I always gravitated towards girls. Always. I didn't play dolls or anything - I had my manly Star Wars and He-Man figures - but I always identified emotionally with girls. I also found, not coincidentally, that I was much more appealing to them. So again, being characterized as feminine is not a shock. I guess when it's written in black and white like this, with numbers to identify with it, suddenly it seems wrong somehow.

I'm a -25. Damn. Maybe I AM gay. I had better figure this out. My wedding is in two months.

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lurkette

Hey quadro. I wasn't terribly comfortable with my score either - I came out "nearly feminine" which is still to feminine for me. I think I'd rather be considered more androgynous - it seems to appeal for my taste for balance and moderation.

There's nothing wrong with your score, but thank you for being so open about your discomfort with it. I think it's interesting how people perceive gender stereotypes and how we see ourselves fitting into those stereotypes, or not.

And I believe some of the more "feminine" qualities, like being loyal, sympathetic, compassionate, understanding, etc., absolutely make you one of those guys that women are looking for! Lucky Jess

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

shannon

this is coming from a girl who studies gender and social constructivism in school, so i might sound a bit ranty. but i love this topic.
i think that there is socially understood terms which are masculine and feminine, as most people could name off a bunch of things that are considered fem and masc and they would generally be understood by other members of the same social group. however, i think it's important to see that perhaps there terms are completely based within these social settings and are not something that actually intrinsically exists. i mean there's obviously a lot of debate over what is natural and what is caused by nurture, but there are a lot of arguments that show flaw in the argument that gender is a natural thing. firstly, it works under the assumption that there are two distinct sexes. this doesn't account for intersex individuals, which create more of a spectrum of sexes if anything, rather than two categories. then, on top of that, assuming that masc is something that is mapped directly onto males and fem is something directly mapped onto females doesn't account for those who don't have a gender that corresponds to their sex. so i'm not big on the assumption that men should be masculine and females should be feminine because i think it is a bit too simplified and requires one to turn a blind eye to too many exceptions.
i am a bit dissappointed that i was almost female, like lurkette, because i was hoping to be more masculine or androgynous. but i wonder even about the validity of tests like this- particularly since they listed feminine and masculine as qualities in a test which is supposed to tell you how masc of fem you are, which seems a bit off. i would be happier if i was less feminine because to me being feminine is the easy way. it is easier to behave in a gendered way which people are accustomed to, and which doesn't challenge currently held power structures.
hope you enjoyed my little rant. i think i'll stop there cause i'm too jetlagged to continue.

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Averett

I scored -22 So quadro is more feminine than me

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BonesCPA

At some point in the future, your wife will have to answer the question "But couldn't you tell?" (see:McGreevey, James)

I was male/masculine, but I don't think it really matters how I came out on this scale. Ignoring my bias against labelling, I still think that many of these qualities are not specifically one gender or the other. Why are women more likely to be gullible, and why are men less likely to like children? (Of course I may be assuming their own kids, I would agree on some other people's brats.)

I guess my bottom line point is that no matter what you score on this test, you shouldn't be happy or sad - it is just a test of stereotypes. Most people fall into stereotypes - that is why they are called what they are. Being disappointed on the results is like saying you are disappointed that your eyes are blue - you are what you are. Assuming you are happy otherwise, you shouldn't try to change things (excluding so called "bad behaviors").

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Back into hibernation.

quadro2000

Thank you. Well, it either goes that way, or it goes the "I couldn't date you, you're like my best friend" way. I remember being heartbroken when that happened, for two reasons. One, because obviously I didn't want to be the best friend, I wanted to be the boyfriend, and two, because I knew I couldn't do a damn thing about it. I knew very early on that I just couldn't change myself. Couldn't make myself more masculine by being tougher or macho. I couldn't really do the guy "I don't care about you that much" thing that some girls seem to really find attractive and appealing. So I was going to wind up being in the "friend" role for a lot of my life. It made me less interesting to a lot of girls, definitely. But you can change some things, and some things you can't change. I could never change being compassionate or understanding.

I thought I was going to come out androgynous, actually. And what's making me feel worse is that Quadrette took the test and got a 6. Actually, I'm not that confused. Because she's always been more masculine than me. (Her voice is lower too.) In our relationship, that sits fine with me, but writing it now, it doesn't feel so fine....even though she did tell me she loves me, no matter where I fall on the scale.

Looking over this test, actually, I'm very impressed with the way it's worded. I have a tendency to lie to myself sometimes on these tests, giving answers that I think are representative of myself when they're actually not. (Obviously I was truthful this time because I'm a frickin -25.) I think the 1-7 scale is written very well, and almost all of the questions are written in a positive light - there are a few that are a bit negative (conceited, inefficient, jealous) but overall, I didn't find myself shying away from giving 5-7 to some of those things.

BTW, I found I only had three 7s (affectionate, conscientious and friendly) and two 1s (athletic and shy).

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quadro2000

She answers it all the time now! In college, she often had to fend off guys who thought that I was perfect for them and in denial. This is what you get when you're a theatre major and take dance classes. It did make me question my sexuality for a time, and I did my share of experimentation with all sorts of things when I was in college (no animals), and found that at the end of the day, I really was all about the ladies.

I was actually discussing this with another TFPer the other day. How guys are supposed to shake hands when they say hello or goodbye, but I'm much more likely to give hugs. And maybe even a kiss on the cheek. That doesn't mean I'm in love with guys but suddenly it makes me more feminine. Or gay, maybe.

I know that, in here (points to head)...

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Supple Cow

I scored 16; nearly masculine I ain't. This horrible, horrible test is reminding me of yet another sexist thing that I've been socialized to believe. I, for one, believe that there is a grain of truth to most stereotypes somewhere or they would never come to exist. That being said, I have noticed over the years that many more men have been successful than women (including myself) in a lot of areas that I'm interested in because of personal characteristics that fit certain stereotypes about men. Yes, there were women who had these characteristics as well, but not very many. I decided to take a more "masculine" approach to things a while ago and I have noticed only good results since.

Unfortunately, (here's the socialized part of me) I always come back to that decision when my romantic interests don't work out, searching in vain for a culprit. Sure, there has a been a relationship or two where the guy really couldn't handle that I had thoughts and was a complete human being, but overall that has not explicitly been the case in most of my relationships. Yet, as I am now - in the wake of a completely healthy and respectful relationship with a man who accepts me exactly the "masculine" way that I am - the first place I think to find "the problem" that broke us up is exactly where I know I shouldn't. Maybe if I wasn't so assertive and independent, things would be different... Oh, those half-truths! Of COURSE things would be different if I were a different person; but that's never what I mean when have thoughts like that.

Ugh.

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ubertuber

WOW

I just took the test and my score was 62. So, if >20 is masculine, what is 62? Triple masculine? Violent felon?? I've always thought of myself as assertive and strong-willed (stubborn) - I guess I never made the transition into thinking of these characteristics (and myself) as explicitly masculine. Then again, I've never really evaluated myself in these exact terms before.

The thing about this test is that it relies on self-perception. It would be interesting to see what would happen if a close friend of mine filled out the answers for me. The other obvious thing is that really you are measuring your conformity to gender-role stereotypes more than your actual masculinity or femininity. Symptoms don't always equate to a diagnosis. After all, not all sneezing people have colds.

Quadro, I just got off the phone with Supple Cow and she thinks that with a 87 point spread between the two of us we would make a cute couple!

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motdakasha

I took the Bem test in my Fem. Psych. textbook a while ago. It says I'm masculine.

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TheShadow

Well, I ended up with a 10 - Nearly Masculine. It seems to make sense to me. While I've become more confident and less emotional as I've grown up, I still am compassionate and care for people, and I can see how it affects my score.

#1 - On the topic of labelling emotions to be either masculine or feminine, I'd say that it's generally fitting, in terms of our society. Women are allowed to exhibit their emotional traits, and as they grow, do not have to suppress them, due to what our society deems to be 'masculine' and 'feminine'. Males, on the other hand, are essentially forced to suppress their emotions, and act as if they have only joy, anger and a few other primal emotions. As a result of this fact, the emotions in columns 1 and 5 are the ones that males are encouraged to exhibit (masculine emotions), and the emtotions in 3 and 6 follow the same pattern, but for females. In this respect, I think that it is fitting to attach emotions to either one gender or another.

However, whether labelling emotions masculine and feminine is correct is an entirely different question. I feel that this labelling changed who I would have been. When I was younger, I was quite emotional, but as a result of being ostracized for that, I changed as a person, probably to fit in more. Had there not been labelling, I think I wouldn't have been forced to change who I was.

#2 - I think that having some "feminine" traits is a good thing. Being able to understand where someone else is coming from allows me to be an openminded person. I'm not saying that having no traits of compassion or sensitivity makes you closeminded, just that without those traits, one usually ends up becoming a self-centred, closeminded individual. If one couldn't understand others' emotions and situations, it would be hard to have a healthy and understanding relationship.

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ratbastid

Isn't that funny? I hug basically all of my close guy friends. Hell, quadro, I hugged YOU on the corner of 1st Ave and 72nd Street, as I recall! It's always interesting to see which any particular guy friend is going to go for, the hug or the handshake.

But that's.... another thread.

I scored a "nearly masculine" 14. Which is just about right for me, I think. I've done a lot over the last few years to nurture my feminine side. I'm much better-rounded as far as gender and sexual identity go than in years past.

sixate

I got a 70.
The only surprise for me is that I scored as many points as I did in the female categories.

SecretMethod70

well, I scored -12. I was a bit surprised because when I took the test my junior year of high school I scored -1.

I find it very itneresting how common it is for women to be spread all over the spectrum, yet, as you can see by the poll results, men are still pretty concentrated under "masculine."

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Mondak

I really don't think we need to take this test without an ocean of salt. I got a +53. I really can't see that I am all the way out there. Tests like this are fun and all, but we are who we are. Maybe I am forceful, opinionated and decisive because of my feminine side and not despite it. Putting us into catagories based on a test never seems to work in my world.

I bet most of us are 5s out of 10 despite our genitals. . .

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SiN

Interesting test...I scored a 22, so just on the masculine side...which is about what I expected.

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Nefir

Hmm.. interesting. I scored a zero. Right in the dead center of "Androgynous". Not all that surprized, really.

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gremlinx8

I scored -13 which is nearly feminine which doesn't really surprise me I guess.

quadro2000

And the funny thing about THAT is that when I look back on that moment, I don't think I even questioned whether we'd hug or shake hands goodbye. I never really think it beforehand, I always just make an instinctual judgement on the spot. I'm not always right, but even when we met I could tell you weren't the kind of guy to be threatened by a hug from another guy.

I think your beard is handsome.

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k1ng

I scored +4, which doesn't really surpise me. I always score in the middle of the spectrum on tests which require me to give answers based on a scale of 1 to X.

I think my close friends would be able to more acurately give answers for me on this test.

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alicat

I consider myself basically feminine with outword attributes and androgynous when it comes to my inner self, having traits that are a mix of the sexes.

That said, I decided to take the test as if I didn't know what the aim of it was, just take it and answer truthfully. Holy crap, I guess I don't know myself as well as I thought! I scored......

-45

Off the feminine richter scale.

Maybe answering Masculine with a 1 affected my score

Ali

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meembo

I was a stay-at-home dad for a decade. Gender-based bias and stereotyping quickly became little more than a distraction for me. I'm a laid-back, nurturing, child-loving guy, and I dig it to this day. Call me feminine, masculine, I don't care at all. Call me a dad and call me moral -- that's what's important to me.

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spiderman

Here's the electronic version.
http://utenti.lycos.it/ladyilaria/eng/eng_bem.php

Oh, yeah. -7

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Redlemon

Thanks for the electronic version Spiderman.
At least you ARE female. I got a -45 as a guy. I'm not really surprised. My wife and I joke that I'm 51% male and she's 51% female; just enough.

alto92

+23...surprising, really, that it's that high

Lloyd

Dodgy - I got 93 for both masciline and feminine - so I got 0

alicat

Redlemon: I'm jealous of your wife! You're obviously a well adjusted guy. Seriously, my DH isin't overly masculine but he also has to dig really deep to tap into any kind of feminine thought processes. It's ironic that we ended up together because I was always into the more pretty boy/femme type of guy (think Duran Duran, Robert Smith, Morrissey or other 80's New Wave type guys) and he was the long hair, heavy metal type dude.

Still, we did end up together and he's my absolute soulmate (in fact, even though we're both 33, we've been together for nearly 16 yrs. and I don't know if I would want to continue living if he were to die). So, he's not as in touch with his feminine side as I'd like (and according to my test results, I have no room to complain), but I accept him as he is because I love him and somehow it works for us (maybe because, like my test results, I'm overly feminine and he's pretty much masculine?). Stereotypical? I don't know. Maybe food for thought.

Ali

__________________
'Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun, The frumious Bandersnatch!'--Jabberwocky, Lewis Carroll

"You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

Dav

Oh dear god,

I did the pen on paper version - and got -22.
Then I did the electronic version and got -37

Maybe what they said was true, I am gay? No, I am defenitely straight. I think they should of asked, "How often do you watch Pornographic material for self sexual gratification"? However, it could be that the test is geared towards females? Look the writing's in a lovely shade of pink :O

I really cant believe this, I'm a guy and ive rated off the charts as feminine. Watch out girlfriend. Whatever. lol!

BadNick

I got a +2 = androgynous

I'm not all that surprised. What surprised me was getting the same score manually as electronically ...damn, I'm a good adder

bookerV

Wow, higher than I thought for fem traits...

Masculine Traits = 125
Fem Traits = 81
Bem Score = 44

Overall = Masculine.

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adam

I'm lazy so I took the test at http://utenti.lycos.it/ladyilaria/eng/eng_bem.php
My score was 25 "MASCOLINO".

Not really sure why it's masculine/feminine, though. And for a lot of the questions I thought, "who knows"...

lurkette

Interesting - when ratbastid scored himself, he got a 14 (nearly masculine) but when I filled it out with my perceptions of him he's a -6 (androgynous).

I got a -14 filling it out for myself, but ratbastid rated me a -26. !
That's even more feminine than...than....quadro2000!!!

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- Anatole France

Tophat665

I took both and scored right round 40. That's about right. I understand femenine, but act masculine.

I think Shannon pretty much nailed this with the cultural relativism argument. Intrinsically, no trait is either, but each culture attaches some traits to each.

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fuqnbastard

exactly 66/66 -> 0

raeanna74

I took the lazy test for now and scored
Masculine - 102
Feminine - 103
Bem score -1

Don't really know what it all means. I do know that I'm a pretty good meld. I enjoy as many masculine activities as feminine. If I had no family to take care of I would pursue more of the masculine that I haven't the time for at present.

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*Nikki*

Masculine 95
Feminine 82
BEM 13

So nearly Masculine?? Kinda Sorta.

BenChuy

m 77
f 110
-33 at fem.

Well, my more androgynous wife has never complained. Infact, she rather likes that better, says she.

Being a male Fem doesn't mean anything about your sexuality, just your personality.

I have been pegged for gay for my whole life, tho, so it seems that these characteristics appear to have that tint.

Giant Hamburger

+36

I have always suspected that I was a man.
Now I have facts and data to back up my claim.

pinkie

-6 here.

http://utenti.lycos.it/ladyilaria/eng/eng_bem.php