It's time to pay your "FAIR" tax at the gas pump
 

I paid $3.39 per gallon at the gas pump today, which I understand is at the LOW end of what most Americans are now paying for gasoline.

Many of us have seen the recent threads telling us that we are somehow morally obligated to pay an extra 30% on top of that in "FAIR" taxes, as Mr. Neil Boortz says we should. That means I should've had to pay $4.42 per gallon in the relatively low-priced region where I'm lucky enough to live, and you, most likely, should've had to pay even MORE.

Translation: when prices go through the roof it's the LITTLE GUY like you who should pay through the nose.

Never mind that Boortz's 23% "tax inclusive rate" is a statistical lie. He's REALLY arguing for a 30% sales tax rate. If you don't believe me then google something like "Boortz tax inclusive rate." What you'll find is a wealth of information telling you how you'll pay 30% sales tax on EVERYTHING if you go for Boortz's BS.

Boortz says he's arguing for a 23% "tax inclusive rate." Google it if you don't believe me. "Tax inclusive rate" means that 23% of every dollar is taken in taxes. Google it if you don't believe me. When 23% of every dollar is taken in taxes that means that you're levying a 23% sales tax rate on 77 cents, not 1 dollar. Google it if you don't believe me. Divide 23 by 77 and you get 30%. Use your calculator if you don't believe me.

When your gas prices go up by more than a buck in a single week, it's "FAIR" for you to pay an extra 30% percent sales tax on it, SUCKA!!!

So says Neil Boortz. PAY UP, BABY!!!

woohoo, someone else paid around what i paid for gas today...it's such a great day when gas is more expensive than milk...


related story, i drive a small car that gets roughly 28-30mpg and has a roughly 15 gallon gas tank. As of today, it is cheaper for me to buy a new battery for my car than it is to fill it up with gas. Even an oil change is now roughly $20 cheaper....

As for this 30% tax, i don't think i've heard anything about it. Got a link or should i just google a bit?

...nevermind, found his show..this guy is what, matt drudge, limbaugh and robertson all in one?

Hey, I live in Austra;ia amd I am paying around 1.27 litre, what does this equate to in $/gallon? We have bbeen told it probably go up to $1.35/L cos of Katrina sending oil prices up

How does our (USA) refining and pipeline system affect gasoline prices in other countries? That sounds opportunistic. We don't import refined product, or export crude for gasoline refineries elsewhere, do we?

$2.53 here Monday morning, $2.58 in the afternoon, $2.63 this morning. The expensive stations are above $2.75, just bumping into $3 for premium.

hey, it seems that other countries just sneeze and we pay more for something, anyway the govenment heaps tax on the price and wont change it

$3.39/gallon? You spoiled bastard! We pay around $1.50/litre here, which would be ca $5.60/gallon. Let's just say I'm not getting a car anytime soon...

Crude oil is traded on an international market.
The US will need to import more oil, and so worldwide demand rises. (without siginificant increase in production)

Economical rules state that prices go up in that case. This goes for all major players on the oil market, meaning that gasoline prices will spike everywhere.
(common business "sense" means that price increase for raw materials should be calculated in the consumer price ASAP, while price decreases should flow through as slow as possible, and often not at all. But this is beside the point)

I haven't got a clue to what the price change around here will be, but we're paying around 1.40 euro/liter which comes around to 5.29 euro/gallon which (at current rates means) USD 6.19/gallon for regular unleaded fuel.
So I think we're paying enough as it is. (btw, over 70% goes straight to the governments allowance)

It's just about to hit £1.00 per litre here.

That's ~£4.50 per gallon.

Which is about US$7.

And that's BEFORE price hikes brought about by Katerina.

That said, I drive a car that routinely does 45mpg.

$A1.27/Litre is around US$3.60/Gallon.
In Germany prices are around double that of the USA, though you can be refunded a proportion of the taxes if you drive to work. On the Aral site I found the Super price to be Euro1.37/L which is around US$6.40/Gallon. I think petrol prices will stay high, even if the oil price stabilises or drops a little. The problem in the USA is that oil prices are high and refining capacity is being used at nearly 100%. Now the hurricane has knocked out both crude oil available and refining capacity.

how many times can a person say Google it if you don't believe me...geez

I paid 3.19 this morning, one gas station had it for 2.99 but you couldnt get into the parking lot (at friggin 6 am)

Cshine, you are leaving out so much information about the fair tax plan that it's not even funny. Regardless if whether the proposed tax rate is 23% or 30%, the main idea of the fair tax plan is to eliminate all federal taxes (including income tax) and instead have a national sales tax. People also get reembursed for the taxes they pay up to the poverty line, so essentials that people buy will in essence not be taxed. The whole idea is people pay for what the consume. Also, everyone pays taxes including illegal immigrants getting paid under the table because they taxes are taken out at the merchant level not the employer level. I think it's an idea worth investigating further.

Now is the time to buy stock in alternative energy companies - LPG, hydrogen fuel cell and electric/hybrid engines are all available right now - the price of gas is never going to go down, because it's a limited resource - as it becomes more expensive to produce, prices will go up, and as prices go up, tensions will increase in oil producing countries, those tensions will occasionally erupt in violence, cutting supply, raising prices even higher and so on.

So if you think it's bad now, just wait another 5 years...

Im so for the fair tax.....I'd gladly pay a national sales tax knowing EVERYBODY had to pay. Boortz and Linders book makes a lot of sense.

Just a couple ponderances and opinion on the issue:

Is this not what we get for electing an oilman for president (regardless of party)?

More taxes on gas would just add to the problems, we are not pursuing any alternative fuels, the taxes would hurt more than they help, and you are punishing those who, like I, have to actually drive a distance to work and school.

Could this not be our supposed allies in OPEC saying "oh and while you are in Iraq..... we're going to fucking bankrupt your asses."?

How soon until inflation starts beating on the door wanting in?

Aren't Congress and the President proud of themselves now that a gallon of gas almost is equal to minimum wage and what temp services pay?

How come oil companies show grotesque profits if we are just paying "market price"?

How come the independants and the small gas guys are struggling as these huge companies make more profit than almost all other industries (except healthcare) combined?

Before inflation rears it's ugly head why can't we just do what Hawaii tried to do in a national scenario..... call gas a public utility and freeze prices? If we freeze prices, don't ya think the price on a barrel will actually fall?

How soon do you think it will be before we see people truly losing everything?

Inflation is coming hard, wages aren't going up, and natural gas/heating oil for houses is going to hit all time highs also causing electric and heating this winter to pretty much bankrupt us. And if that doesn't when everyone has to raise prices on goods to compensate for the outrageous prices...... we'll see immense raise in prices and wages that won't buy shit.

Our economy is based on our purchasing power and when we can't purchase, things will close, jobs lost, tax revenue lost and we'll be done. Something has to be done to correct the problem and fast.

I'm talking about Katrina. Why would we need to import more crude and therefore affect global prices, which is what ryfo was suggesting? The reality is Katrina has temporarily reduced our consumption by taking people off the roads and slowing the pipelines. Our refined goods demand is way up, due to fear and reduced supply but how does that affect the crude market?

Maybe we need other sources. Are other people outside the U.S. being told Katrina is affecting their gas prices?

Why is the "fair tax" even an issue any more? It's only the most regressive, stupid, nonsensical tax scheme ever. Seriously, all it does is punish people who make less and decrease tax revenue severely, at the same time giving corporations a big profit boost. There is no way you can make that not true using the fair tax scheme. Anyone who is advocating this plan has no understanding of economy whatsoever.

Simple explanation on the BBC news earlier this evening.

It works like this.

Supply in the US fell through the floor the other day.

So demand went up.

So prices rise.

Right now the highest cost (pre-tax) for gasoline is in the US - it's only so cheap there because you have so little tax on it.

Once the value of gasoline in the US = the value in Europe + the cost of shipping it across the atlantic, the Oil companies will make more profit by selling what they have in the US.

That kills supply in Europe.

Which causes us to have a price rise.

This will see-saw back and forth between Europe and the States (and all other global markets) regardless of where the gas came from.

In fact, if the board of the oil corps didn't ship it to the US, the shareholders would be expected to boot them out for not "maximising shareholder value".

The fact is that no economy in the world is isolated from the effects of global markets, no matter what Bush says.

Daniel, you have a point there but you don´t see the whole picture.
7 refineries in the Gulf are out or order. People in the US still demand gas and fill their tanks constantly up. The fear is a gas shortage or overnight price increase.
So the US buys gas on the world market to supply the nation which leads to a shortage for the rest of the world. Ergo, gas prices everywhere go up.
Same happened with the Chinese buying steel.

Erm - Dyze.

a) It's not my point, I was repeating a comment made on the BBC.

b) I said exactly the same as you tried to tell me I ought to have said. :p

The place that you're wrong is that "the US" doesn't buy gas.

The oli companies (who are global - we all use the same ones) decide to sell their fuel in te way that makes them the most money.

It's the free market for you.

Remind me again how a free market gives everyone the lowest prices?

Actually, I believe that at least SOME of our Alaskan oil does get exported to countries like Japan. I could be wrong, though.

Sure glad we've got people protesting Bush's suggestion to drill in the ANWR, as was specified when it was created under Jimmy Carter.

What a silly man Bush is--he wants to increase our supply of oil.

The only thing I can gather from this post is that you have totally misinterpreted the fair tax concept. It's not 23% of every dollar, it's 23% of every dollar SPENT, with an allowance for the poverty level. And it's to REPLACE the existing taxes.

Time for you to Google a lot more.

It's nice to see someone actually using their heads when thinking about the fair tax. It's a fucking pipe dream designed to make the rich richer.

That's a lie. Do your homework. Even Neil Boortz freely admits that the tax he proposes is 30 cents on the dollar. His " 23% tax inclusive rate" = a 30% sales tax. I've already explained that for you in explicit terms. If you don't believe me then google the words "tax inclusive rate" and you'll find that I'm speaking the 100% truth. Do your research before you talk.

And I thought we (South Africans) had it bad. I pay about R5.50 a litre at the moment, with prices set to increase by about 20-30c come Wednesday.
So with $1 = R6.24 and £1 = R11.53 I guess I'm not paying that much after all.

Am I comforted by that thought? Definitely not.

depends on the cost of living there, what is R5.50 in your country? £1/litre here is roughly 1/4 of minimum wage per litre (so a person on minimum wage can basically buy a gallon of fuel an hour), our average wage iirc is around £16,000 a year (currently ~$29,450). How does this compare to the US/South Africa (cost of living is all important within a country, paying people 10cents a day when a good wage is 8cents a day is good, paying people 10cents a day when they need 15 to live is generally bad...)

I can only assume, from your shrill response, and the hour at which you posted, that you've had way too much coffee or other stimulation.

This may be why you missed, in your multiple Googles, Boortz's refutation of everything you're saying, and labeling a "lie." In particular, the part about embedded taxes.

One more time: You pay for gas with AFTER TAX money. Thus, the money you started out with has had SS and Medicare (approx 15%), payroll taxes (approx 20%, but variable), taken out. Then when you buy the gas, sales tax (7%?) and federal gas tax (20 cents/gal.? 30 cents? I haven't checked lately) taken out. You have to buy gas with what's left. Under the Fair Tax Plan, you get paid 100% of your salary, and 23% is taken out when you buy gas.

Here is the refutation of arguments by other people who didn't grasp the concept:

Boortz on Aug 22, 2005