Hallelujah, Ashcroft resigns!! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sailor · 11-09-2004, 04:10 PM

From http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...n654651.shtml:

Quote:

Attorney General John Ashcroft, a favorite of conservatives, and Commerce Secretary Don Evans, one of President Bush's closest friends, resigned Tuesday, the first members of the Cabinet to leave as Bush heads from re-election into his second term.

Both Ashcroft and Evans have served in Bush's Cabinet from the start of the administration.

Ashcroft, in a five-page, handwritten letter to Bush, said, "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved."

Im assuming the safety of Americans from crime and terror is referring to his stepping down.

I honestly dont know anything about Don Evans, so I cant comment on him.

I realize some may have different opinions of him--but this is the best news Ive heard since the election ended. Ive long considered him public enemy number one in the Bush administration, and I certainly wont be missing him. I just hope he doesnt have his eye set on a Supreme Court nomination.

Also information at:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138080,00.html
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews...9_20041109.htm

j8ear · 11-09-2004, 04:13 PM

Aside from being the first AG in my lifetime to declare the 2nd ammendment conveyed a personal right, this guy had nothing and did nothing I liked.

We'll see who's next, I guess.

On this resignation, I say good riddance.

-bear

braisler · 11-09-2004, 04:16 PM

Here, here! Of course, we'll have to see who the replacement might be. Can Bush find someone who will launch even more vigorous attacks on personal freedom and liberty?

Mephisto2 · 11-09-2004, 04:25 PM

This is one thing that doesn't really effect the world outside the US that much. Having said that, I have a distaste for the man and what I've read about him. For that reason I'm happy.

Let's hope he's not replaced by someone worse.

Mr Mephisto

adam · 11-09-2004, 04:27 PM

I'm waiting on the replacement before getting too giddy.

tellumFS · 11-09-2004, 04:27 PM

I for one, am glad to see that man leave. Now lets hope he doesn't end up on the Supreme Court, and that Bush doesn't put someone who is more of troll in the AG office.

Coppertop · 11-09-2004, 04:33 PM

Wonder if his replacement will be annointed with oils as he assumes office?

Ilow · 11-09-2004, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam

I'm waiting on the replacement before getting too giddy.

as much as I want to scream "ding dong the witch is dead" I am waiting as well.

fuzyfuzer · 11-09-2004, 04:58 PM

i am sitting in berlin and i am loving this news, its interesting that there are people here that i have overheard talking about this. hopefully we will get a replacement that understands the constitution and the bill or rights.

guy44 · 11-09-2004, 05:33 PM

The weird thing about Ashcroft is his incomptence. Like, I hate his positions (for censorships, guns, government invading all sorts of privacy) but he has been utterly incompetent. Which is good and bad. On the good side, he hasn't fully exploited the Patriot Act and broken all the boundaries of civil liberties because of said incompetence. On the downside, America needs a good Attorney General and he ain't it.

You know how many terrorist convictions he has? It is (ironically enough, a French word) ZERO. While I don't think he should get those through the Patriot Act powers, he should be convicting people on terrorism charges as they do exist.

The other thing about him going is, he'll be replaced by Marc Racicot (pretty evil in his own way) or Alberto Gonzalez (you know, the guy who in anticipation of the Iraq War wrote a memo saying that the Geneva Convention protections against torture were "quaint.") Oy.

Tophat665 · 11-09-2004, 05:39 PM

Now, on the face of it, this looks like the first hopeful sign. (Of course, John Ashcroft isn't the most conservative or most hardcore apocalyptic out there, just the one that Shrub picked first time 'round - so it could be much worse. Imagine all the crazy paired with a competent understanding of law enforcement.) However, should he be leaving to enbark upon a singing career, the world will surely soil itself with fear.

Aladdin Sane · 11-09-2004, 05:41 PM

I'm miss him. He was a great Attorney General.

The_Dunedan · 11-09-2004, 06:05 PM

Here's hoping he doesn't get replaced with something worse!

I can't imagine what -would- be worse, short of Janet Reno, but I could very well be wrong.

sob · 11-09-2004, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braisler

Here, here! Of course, we'll have to see who the replacement might be. Can Bush find someone who will launch even more vigorous attacks on personal freedom and liberty?

Sure. Janet Reno!

sob · 11-09-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sob

Sure. Janet Reno!

Damn. Didn't see where The_Dunedan said it first.

sob · 11-09-2004, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

Aside from being the first AG in my lifetime to declare the 2nd ammendment conveyed a personal right, this guy had nothing and did nothing I liked.

-bear

Just to keep the record straight, the second amendment protects a right all citizens already have.

The Bill of Rights doesn't convey rights--it limits the power of government to deny our rights.

Lebell · 11-09-2004, 06:43 PM

Aside from his position on the 2nd, I won't miss him...

Ustwo · 11-09-2004, 08:46 PM

Oh boy who will the left try to wrongly demonize next!

I can't wait.

Seandq · 11-09-2004, 08:48 PM

I think it's pretty unanimous. I'm a moderate, and I didn't like Ashcroft, but he was fine on the 2nd with me too.

I just don't like SINGING Attorney Generals. "Let the eagle soar.." haha.

Ustwo · 11-09-2004, 08:59 PM

I just found it hilarious with members of the left acting as if he made the laws.

As I've always been quick to point out, its better being a horrible singer then murdering American citizens like the last AG.

irateplatypus · 11-09-2004, 10:11 PM

i'm not a fan of the patriot act and other encroachments on liberty passed in the last 4 years... but i have respect for ashcroft.

he is an honest man who used the powers that were given to him as aggressively as he could. you've got to expect that the attorney general will exercise the power given to him... if you've got issues with the power given, call your congressman. the patriot act passed the senate and house with almost UNANIMOUS approval, yet somehow he has born almost the entire brunt of scorn for the legislation.

D Rice · 11-09-2004, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braisler

Here, here! Of course, we'll have to see who the replacement might be. Can Bush find someone who will launch even more vigorous attacks on personal freedom and liberty?

That can be argued

Manx · 11-09-2004, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

i'm not a fan of the patriot act and other encroachments on liberty passed in the last 4 years... but i have respect for ashcroft.

he is an honest man who used the powers that were given to him as aggressively as he could. you've got to expect that the attorney general will exercise the power given to him... if you've got issues with the power given, call your congressman. the patriot act passed the senate and house with almost UNANIMOUS approval, yet somehow he has born almost the entire brunt of scorn for the legislation.

Ashcroft championed the PA. He toured the country promoting a second version and has fought (along side Bush) to eliminate the expiration of many portions of it. He may not have written it himself (though I'm sure the Justice Dept. had a big hand in that), he may not have signed it into law - but he assuredly praised its purpose. I'm not sure how you can hold respect for a man while still disliking that which he has spent most of his recent career praising.

And maybe if you knew the man you'd be able to claim he is honest. I don't know him, and I wouldn't take anyone's word on the matter.

Having said all of that, I can think of only three likely explanations for his departure.

1- He just wanted to go.
2- He insulted Bush in some fashion that is unknown to the public.
3- Bush wanted to get rid of Ashcroft so he could be replaced with a similar man, minus the baggage. Allowing Bush to achieve his agenda without spending as much political capital.

Superbelt · 11-10-2004, 09:32 AM

Well, looks like Bush made his choice for AG replacement. link Alberton Gonzales.

Is he better than Ashcroft? I dunno, it's a tough call between the psycho we have had for the last 4 years and a guy who was writing legal briefs for the administration, long before Abu Ghraib, which argued that there was a place for torture in military intelligence policy.

Ustwo · 11-10-2004, 10:20 AM

Sounds like a good man for the job at hand

Superbelt · 11-10-2004, 10:31 AM

I'd say, "quaint"

aliali · 11-10-2004, 11:27 AM

I say good luck to Mr. Ashcroft with his health and future endeavors. There are lots of things he did well. While there are legitimate reasons to criticize him, I don't think singing or praying make that list. I seems that those opposed to him have a lot more hate and than your average person.

I say good luck to Mr. Gonzales. I hope he is confirmed and does his level best to pursue justice for and on behalf of all of America's citizens. I hope he gets a fair shake.

guy44 · 11-10-2004, 02:42 PM

I hope Alberto Gonzalez gets a fair shake, I hope he proves his doubters wrong, and is one of the best AGs this country has ever had.

I also hope that I marry Natalie Portman one day, so you know, there you have it.

Alberto Gonzalez. Or as he used to sign his name, Enron counsel Alberto Gonzalez. After that, he signed his name White House counsel Alberto Gonzalez, like on the memo to the President in which he called Geneva Convention protections against torture, "quaint."

Yeah...

11-09-2004, 04:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	Aside from being the first AG in my lifetime to declare the 2nd ammendment conveyed a personal right, this guy had nothing and did nothing I liked. We'll see who's next, I guess. On this resignation, I say good riddance. -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

11-09-2004, 04:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
tellumFS Tilted	I for one, am glad to see that man leave. Now lets hope he doesn't end up on the Supreme Court, and that Bush doesn't put someone who is more of troll in the AG office. Last edited by tellumFS; 11-09-2004 at 04:28 PM.. Reason: spelling

11-09-2004, 04:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
fuzyfuzer Insane Location: st. louis	i am sitting in berlin and i am loving this news, its interesting that there are people here that i have overheard talking about this. hopefully we will get a replacement that understands the constitution and the bill or rights. __________________ "The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited" "Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt

11-09-2004, 05:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	The weird thing about Ashcroft is his incomptence. Like, I hate his positions (for censorships, guns, government invading all sorts of privacy) but he has been utterly incompetent. Which is good and bad. On the good side, he hasn't fully exploited the Patriot Act and broken all the boundaries of civil liberties because of said incompetence. On the downside, America needs a good Attorney General and he ain't it. You know how many terrorist convictions he has? It is (ironically enough, a French word) ZERO. While I don't think he should get those through the Patriot Act powers, he should be convicting people on terrorism charges as they do exist. The other thing about him going is, he'll be replaced by Marc Racicot (pretty evil in his own way) or Alberto Gonzalez (you know, the guy who in anticipation of the Iraq War wrote a memo saying that the Geneva Convention protections against torture were "quaint.") Oy. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

11-09-2004, 05:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	Now, on the face of it, this looks like the first hopeful sign. (Of course, John Ashcroft isn't the most conservative or most hardcore apocalyptic out there, just the one that Shrub picked first time 'round - so it could be much worse. Imagine all the crazy paired with a competent understanding of law enforcement.) However, should he be leaving to enbark upon a singing career, the world will surely soil itself with fear. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

11-09-2004, 04:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	Here, here! Of course, we'll have to see who the replacement might be. Can Bush find someone who will launch even more vigorous attacks on personal freedom and liberty?

11-09-2004, 04:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	This is one thing that doesn't really effect the world outside the US that much. Having said that, I have a distaste for the man and what I've read about him. For that reason I'm happy. Let's hope he's not replaced by someone worse. Mr Mephisto

11-09-2004, 04:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
adam Insane	I'm waiting on the replacement before getting too giddy.

11-09-2004, 04:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Wonder if his replacement will be annointed with oils as he assumes office?

11-09-2004, 05:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	I'm miss him. He was a great Attorney General. __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

11-09-2004, 06:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Here's hoping he doesn't get replaced with something worse! I can't imagine what -would- be worse, short of Janet Reno, but I could very well be wrong.

11-09-2004, 06:43 PM	#17 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Aside from his position on the 2nd, I won't miss him... __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

11-09-2004, 08:46 PM	#18 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Oh boy who will the left try to wrongly demonize next! I can't wait. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-09-2004, 08:48 PM	#19 (permalink)
Seandq Tilted Location: Orlando, FL	I think it's pretty unanimous. I'm a moderate, and I didn't like Ashcroft, but he was fine on the 2nd with me too. I just don't like SINGING Attorney Generals. "Let the eagle soar.." haha.

11-09-2004, 08:59 PM	#20 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I just found it hilarious with members of the left acting as if he made the laws. As I've always been quick to point out, its better being a horrible singer then murdering American citizens like the last AG. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-09-2004, 10:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i'm not a fan of the patriot act and other encroachments on liberty passed in the last 4 years... but i have respect for ashcroft. he is an honest man who used the powers that were given to him as aggressively as he could. you've got to expect that the attorney general will exercise the power given to him... if you've got issues with the power given, call your congressman. the patriot act passed the senate and house with almost UNANIMOUS approval, yet somehow he has born almost the entire brunt of scorn for the legislation. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

11-10-2004, 09:32 AM	#24 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Well, looks like Bush made his choice for AG replacement. link Alberton Gonzales. Is he better than Ashcroft? I dunno, it's a tough call between the psycho we have had for the last 4 years and a guy who was writing legal briefs for the administration, long before Abu Ghraib, which argued that there was a place for torture in military intelligence policy.

11-10-2004, 10:20 AM	#25 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Sounds like a good man for the job at hand __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-10-2004, 10:31 AM	#26 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I'd say, "quaint"

11-10-2004, 11:27 AM	#27 (permalink)
aliali Insane Location: Missouri	I say good luck to Mr. Ashcroft with his health and future endeavors. There are lots of things he did well. While there are legitimate reasons to criticize him, I don't think singing or praying make that list. I seems that those opposed to him have a lot more hate and than your average person. I say good luck to Mr. Gonzales. I hope he is confirmed and does his level best to pursue justice for and on behalf of all of America's citizens. I hope he gets a fair shake.

11-10-2004, 02:42 PM	#28 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	I hope Alberto Gonzalez gets a fair shake, I hope he proves his doubters wrong, and is one of the best AGs this country has ever had. I also hope that I marry Natalie Portman one day, so you know, there you have it. Alberto Gonzalez. Or as he used to sign his name, Enron counsel Alberto Gonzalez. After that, he signed his name White House counsel Alberto Gonzalez, like on the memo to the President in which he called Geneva Convention protections against torture, "quaint." Yeah... __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"