9-11 probe hindered by "Legislative Body" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Bookman · 02-26-2004, 10:16 AM

Will we ever get a FULL investigation or will the "LEGSLATIVE BODY" here prevent it??

Quote:

White House's limits upset 9/11 panel
Length of interviews, access restricted

Philip Shenon, New York Times
Thursday, February 26, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Washington -- President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, saying they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, panel members said Wednesday.

The commission, which has 10 members and is bipartisan, said it also had been informed by the White House that Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, had rejected its request that she testify in public about the intelligence reports she received before the attacks.

Democratic members of the panel said the administration's moves raised new questions about its willingness to cooperate with the commission, which is investigating intelligence and law enforcement blunders in the months and years before the attacks. The White House initially opposed creating the panel.

Republican congressional leaders have criticized the investigation's pace. House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday that he would block legislation that extended the commission's May 27 deadline, the Los Angeles Times reported.

"President Bush and Vice President Cheney have agreed to meet privately with the chair and vice chair but prefer not to meet with all members," the statement said, referring to the chairman, former New Jersey Gov. Thomas Kean, a Republican, and the vice chairman, former Rep. Lee Hamilton, D-Ind. "We hope the president and the vice president will reconsider."

The panel said it was disappointed by Rice's decision not to testify at a public hearing, adding, "We believe the nation would be well served by the contribution she can make to public understanding of the intelligence and policy issues being examined by the commission."

Rice has submitted to several hours of questioning at a private session. Her spokesman, Sean McCormack, said the decision against public testimony was made at the recommendation of administration lawyers who warned of separation- of-powers issues.

"Based on law and practice, White House staff members have not testified before legislative bodies," McCormack said, "and this is considered a legislative body."

A White House spokeswoman, Erin Healy, would not offer details of the administration's reasoning in trying to limit the meeting to Kean and Hamilton. Healy said she was unaware that the White House had wanted to limit the president's interview to one hour.

Linkee

Ustwo · 02-26-2004, 10:47 AM

Well you kinda commented so its an improvement.

What you have is the democrats on a political witch hunt, and the white house telling them to fuck off. You HAVE read those leaked memos by the democrats haven't you?

Bookman · 02-26-2004, 11:18 AM

No I have not read the LEAKED documents from the democrats.

I am not concerned here with your Partisan Politics.
I am concerned with why OUR LEADERS appear to be making all efforts to evade answering questions.

What say you now?

onetime2 · 02-26-2004, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bookman
No I have not read the LEAKED documents from the democrats.

I am not concerned here with your Partisan Politics.
I am concerned with why OUR LEADERS appear to be making all efforts to evade answering questions.

What say you now?

The documents Ustwo speaks of detail how the Democrats in Congress are looking to use the 9/11 investigation to bring down Bush's administration. Not exactly an impartial investigation, so why would you expect impartial reaction to it?

maximusveritas · 02-26-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
The documents Ustwo speaks of detail how the Democrats in Congress are looking to use the 9/11 investigation to bring down Bush's administration. Not exactly an impartial investigation, so why would you expect impartial reaction to it?

If the Bush administration did nothing wrong, they should have nothing to fear. The Democrats can't bring them down if there's nothing there. Personally, I don't believe there's anything there, but when they try to stonewall and hide, it makes me suspicious.

Tomservo · 02-26-2004, 03:37 PM

Oh boy. "Impartial" investigation? This is what we expect following three years of a Ken Starr witch hunt? There will never be an "impartial" panel again... once that card was played, it changed the rules for everyone.

As mv says, if Bush & co. did nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear... but I have a feeling the investigation won't go on for three years, regardless of the events' obvious impact on our country.

ubertuber · 02-26-2004, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomservo
There will never be an "impartial" panel again... once that card was played, it changed the rules for everyone.

That's the truth, if only for the reason that no one will ever believe that an investigation is impartial again (even if it is).

As far as this article goes, it does bother me that President Bush is only willing to submit to one hour of questioning. There must be more to that part of the story. After all, if 9/11 was important enough to provoke the major changes to our foreign policy that it did (and some of our drastic actions), then it should be worth more than an hour of our president's time.

onetime2 · 02-26-2004, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomservo
Oh boy. "Impartial" investigation? This is what we expect following three years of a Ken Starr witch hunt? There will never be an "impartial" panel again... once that card was played, it changed the rules for everyone.

As mv says, if Bush & co. did nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear... but I have a feeling the investigation won't go on for three years, regardless of the events' obvious impact on our country.

If you honestly believe partisan panels began with Ken Starr, you need to dig into some history books.

The thinking that "if there's nothing to hide then nothing can be found" is naive. Anything found will be spun, so why give them a shot at anything to spin? (and this goes for both sides by the way not just the Republicans, after all does anyone recall Clinton or Nixon openly participating in the investigations? Of course not.)

Lebell · 02-26-2004, 07:23 PM

Bush doesn't want to open himself up to an unlimited witch hunt, which is what the Democrats want (as evidenced by said leaked documents).

I don't blame him.

losthellhound · 02-27-2004, 01:19 AM

At least "the hill" has learned that important computers should have better security on them

Since it is a comission based within the legislative branch, then it should consist of members from ONLY the legislative branch, and not have any political bias (I know, impossible, but im in a good mood and I think in impossibilities when im in good moods)

This comission won't turn up anything but conjecture and spin-fodder.. 9/11 will turn out to be the next JFK assassination, and twenty years from now some future government will "open the vaults" and our children in Universities and colleges will read the reports and laugh at all the conspiracy theories we thought up..

btw I think I saw Condoleezza Rice on the grassy knoll..

pan6467 · 02-27-2004, 03:03 AM

Did Bush know something? Without a doubt.

Did he try to stop it? I would venture to say no.

Will we ever know the truth? Nope

Do we need to? Nope

Perhaps if we knew the truth it would be far worse to the country than what 9/11 ever was on its own.

Bookman · 02-27-2004, 04:50 AM

Starting this war on terror, the war in Iraq 'Tanamo bay (jailed w/ no due process) were all justified by 9-11.
I dont think the"spin" is a concern more than the public getting more of the TRUTH.
It may be a ploy to remove him, if a true investigation turned up evidence why shouldnt the taxpayers have this info going into th polls?
The steel was carted off on barges and trucks through Brooklyn.
There were many claims of explosives down at the WTC.
GWB could be Jesus himself...whats up with the secretive nature?
Question: are conservatives and the right really lemmings who enjoy their programing along with their money and tax breaks?
There are so many questions which will never be answered and that is sad.

prb · 02-27-2004, 06:54 AM

Democrats want to use the investigation into 9/11 for partisan advantage.

Bush won't let this happen while he himself is busy trying to use 9/11 for partisan advantage.

It's called balance. If you are Republican.

stevie667 · 02-27-2004, 02:53 PM

hmmm, sounds like tony's influence on due process is bigger than we expecte

Bookman · 03-04-2004, 09:24 AM

Linkee

Quote:

Furor over Bush's 9/11 ad

By MAGGIE HABERMAN in New York
amd THOMAS M. DeFRANK in Washington
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Film grab from President Bush's new campaign ad.

'After 3,000 people were murdered on his watch, it seems to me that that takes an awful lot of audacity. Honestly, it's in poor taste.' - Kristen Breitweiser, with her husband's ring.

The Bush reelection campaign yesterday unveiled its first three campaign commercials showcasing Ground Zero images, angering some 9/11 families who accused President Bush of exploiting the tragedy for political advantage.
"It's a slap in the face of the murders of 3,000 people," said Monica Gabrielle, whose husband died in the twin tower attacks. "It is unconscionable."

Gabrielle and several other family members said the injury was compounded by Bush's refusal to testify in open session before the 9/11 commission.

"I would be less offended if he showed a picture of himself in front of the Statue of Liberty," said Tom Roger, whose daughter was a flight attendant on doomed American Airlines Flight 11. "But to show the horror of 9/11 in the background, that's just some advertising agency's attempt to grab people by the throat."

Mindy Kleinberg said she was offended because the White House has not cooperated fully with the commission and because of the sight of remains being lifted out of Ground Zero in one of the spots.

"How heinous is that?" Kleinberg asked. "That's somebody's [loved one]."

Firefighter Tommy Fee in Rescue Squad 270 in Queens was appalled.

"It's as sick as people who stole things out of the place. The image of firefighters at Ground Zero should not be used for this stuff, for politics," Fee said.

But Jennie Farrell, who lost her brother, electrician James Cartier, called the ad "tastefully done," adding: "It speaks to the truth of the times. Sept. 11 ... was something beyond the realm of imagination, and George Bush ... led us through one of the darkest moments in history."

The gauzy, upbeat spots, aimed at shoring up Bush's sagging approval numbers, begin airing today on national cable networks and 50 media markets in 17 states that Bush-Cheney strategists consider electoral battlegrounds.

Two ads, including a Spanish version, show fleeting images of the World Trade Center devastation. The 30-second spots include a poignant image of an American flag fluttering defiantly amid the WTC wreckage.

One, titled "Safer, Stronger," also features a one-second shot of firefighters removing the flag-draped remains of a victim from the twisted debris.

Both ads reinforce the Ground Zero imagery with frontal shots of two firefighters. Unlike the paid actors and actresses in most of the footage, they are not ringers, but their red headgear gives them away as non-New Yorkers. The Bush campaign declined to reveal where the burly smoke-eaters actually work.

Bush officials defended the imagery as totally appropriate.

"9/11 was the defining moment of these times," campaign manager Ken Mehlman told reporters. "Because of that day, America is at war and still is."

Charging Democratic rival John Kerry with politicizing the attacks by alleging Bush has turned his back on the city, Mehlman added: "The President's never forgotten. It's a central part of his leadership."

The spots, pegged to the theme of "steady leadership in time of change," do not mention Kerry. Instead, their uplifting message hopes to refurbish Bush's battered image after two months of harsh Democratic attacks and a series of missteps by the normally surefooted White House political apparatus.

"We've been off our game for weeks," a senior Bush strategist conceded. "Thank goodness, there's plenty of time to get well, and plenty of grist to chop Kerry down to size."

This is what I meant with this thread.
Maybe I should go into journalism...yet they wouldnt like me, guess not.

pan6467 · 03-04-2004, 09:50 AM

Why should Bush's ads and dirty tactics surprise anyone. Whether it's 9/11 or Kerry's military background or having his friends (at Clear Channel) try to destroy the careers of any media type that speaks out against him.

The GOP and Bush especially know they CANNOT WIN on the issues. They have but one choice use 9/11 and run as dirty as possible.

maximusveritas · 03-04-2004, 09:50 AM

Those ads are simply outrageous. They don't have anything positive to say about Bush's performance as President so they have to resort to exploiting a national tragedy. Meanwhile, he can't even meet publicly with the whole 9-11 comission, instead meeting privately for just 1 hour behind closed doors.
This is only the beginning. The Republicans are planning their convention in NYC around 9-11 and will no doubt use every opportunity to exploit this nation's pain in order to get some votes. These guys have no shame.
They even have the gall to charge Democrats with playing politics for calling them on this. When Edwards criticized them for exploiting 9-11, a Bush spokesman said "I can't believe he said that. They are playing politics with a national tragedy."

02-26-2004, 10:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Well you kinda commented so its an improvement. What you have is the democrats on a political witch hunt, and the white house telling them to fuck off. You HAVE read those leaked memos by the democrats haven't you? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

02-26-2004, 07:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Bush doesn't want to open himself up to an unlimited witch hunt, which is what the Democrats want (as evidenced by said leaked documents). I don't blame him. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

02-27-2004, 01:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
losthellhound Thats MR. Muffin Face now Location: Everywhere work sends me	At least "the hill" has learned that important computers should have better security on them Since it is a comission based within the legislative branch, then it should consist of members from ONLY the legislative branch, and not have any political bias (I know, impossible, but im in a good mood and I think in impossibilities when im in good moods) This comission won't turn up anything but conjecture and spin-fodder.. 9/11 will turn out to be the next JFK assassination, and twenty years from now some future government will "open the vaults" and our children in Universities and colleges will read the reports and laugh at all the conspiracy theories we thought up.. btw I think I saw Condoleezza Rice on the grassy knoll.. __________________ "Life is possible only with illusions. And so, the question for the science of mental health must become an absolutely new and revolutionary one, yet one that reflects the essence of the human condition: On what level of illusion does one live?" -- Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death

02-27-2004, 03:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Did Bush know something? Without a doubt. Did he try to stop it? I would venture to say no. Will we ever know the truth? Nope Do we need to? Nope Perhaps if we knew the truth it would be far worse to the country than what 9/11 ever was on its own. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

03-04-2004, 09:50 AM	#16 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Why should Bush's ads and dirty tactics surprise anyone. Whether it's 9/11 or Kerry's military background or having his friends (at Clear Channel) try to destroy the careers of any media type that speaks out against him. The GOP and Bush especially know they CANNOT WIN on the issues. They have but one choice use 9/11 and run as dirty as possible. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

02-26-2004, 11:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bookman Insane	No I have not read the LEAKED documents from the democrats. I am not concerned here with your Partisan Politics. I am concerned with why OUR LEADERS appear to be making all efforts to evade answering questions. What say you now?

02-26-2004, 03:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tomservo Crazy Location: Los Angeles, CA	Oh boy. "Impartial" investigation? This is what we expect following three years of a Ken Starr witch hunt? There will never be an "impartial" panel again... once that card was played, it changed the rules for everyone. As mv says, if Bush & co. did nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear... but I have a feeling the investigation won't go on for three years, regardless of the events' obvious impact on our country.

02-27-2004, 04:50 AM	#12 (permalink)
Bookman Insane	Starting this war on terror, the war in Iraq 'Tanamo bay (jailed w/ no due process) were all justified by 9-11. I dont think the"spin" is a concern more than the public getting more of the TRUTH. It may be a ploy to remove him, if a true investigation turned up evidence why shouldnt the taxpayers have this info going into th polls? The steel was carted off on barges and trucks through Brooklyn. There were many claims of explosives down at the WTC. GWB could be Jesus himself...whats up with the secretive nature? Question: are conservatives and the right really lemmings who enjoy their programing along with their money and tax breaks? There are so many questions which will never be answered and that is sad.

02-27-2004, 06:54 AM	#13 (permalink)
prb Psycho	Democrats want to use the investigation into 9/11 for partisan advantage. Bush won't let this happen while he himself is busy trying to use 9/11 for partisan advantage. It's called balance. If you are Republican.

02-27-2004, 02:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	hmmm, sounds like tony's influence on due process is bigger than we expecte

03-04-2004, 09:50 AM	#17 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	Those ads are simply outrageous. They don't have anything positive to say about Bush's performance as President so they have to resort to exploiting a national tragedy. Meanwhile, he can't even meet publicly with the whole 9-11 comission, instead meeting privately for just 1 hour behind closed doors. This is only the beginning. The Republicans are planning their convention in NYC around 9-11 and will no doubt use every opportunity to exploit this nation's pain in order to get some votes. These guys have no shame. They even have the gall to charge Democrats with playing politics for calling them on this. When Edwards criticized them for exploiting 9-11, a Bush spokesman said "I can't believe he said that. They are playing politics with a national tragedy."