Can anyone explain John Kerry to me
 

More over a year now, I have hated John Kerry. Whenever I see him on whatever talk show / news show that he can get airtime on, he angers me. Like most politicians in his situation, he seems to bitch alot about whatever issue he has at hand and not offer any kind of credible solutions. His "I am out to help the common man" schtick is so played. I hate politicians.

I thought he would simply go away when the primary seasons started and more substantial candidates emerged, but instead he is gaining momentum.

Since I am having objectivity problems with this fellow, I was wondering what his stance is on things. What is he doing that seems to resonate so far with the folks who are voting for him? What are his views? What is his plan? In General where does he stand?

Since I cannot seem to be, please be as objective as you can even if you are some Kerry person. Thanks a lot for the information on this fellow. I would like to educate myself on this subject instead of ignoring it.

I don't think Kerry can beat Bush for the simple reason that what most appeals to the far left (strong anti-war, anti-gun, etc.) is what alienates the swing vote.

If Kerry gets the nomination, I predict four more years of Bush.

I think Lebell is right - At first I thought Dean would be the easiest to beat but Kerry seems to be nothing other than a saggy-faced Kennedy clone. Heard on the news a little while ago that Bush now has an approval of 52% in California - first time that has happened in years.

Unfortunately I have not been following what the Dem candidates are saying but it would appear to me that Kerry would be the best to go against Bush. I think he would give Bush a hard time just by the fact he is a better speaker.

It is interesting that you mentioned the "better speaker" part - to you he may be a better speaker but to those of us who speak Texan or the like, he is speaking a foreign language that is difficult at times to understand. New England English is a lot different than what is spoken in a large part of the country.

I appreciate the feedback, but I want to try and not make this thread a "who will win the election" Thread if possible.

If anyone knows anything about this guy's politics, views, etc, it would really help me understand my world better.

George Bush won't win California. Period. Even the Republicans hear are starting to dislike him now, judging by the amount of time they spend bitching about his new immigration "plan". The idea of providing amnesty to a bunch of folks who are already taking jobs from you doesn't resonate with anyone, regardless of skin color, race, or political party. Granted, when he dumps this retarded idea, they'll probably rejoin the Bush love-in. When it all boils down, though, California's schools are getting worse, housing is getting more expensive, and state benefits (Community College fees, child-care programs) are going to be cut massively if Gov. Arnold doesn't get his bond package.

In short, Californians are pissed, and the same things that pissed them off about Gray Davis are Bush staples. High spending, huge deficit, pandering to the illegal aliens... and this state voted VERY solidly anti-Bush last time.

Understood Liquor Dealer but don't necessarily agree. That's all I'll say as I do not want to hijack Mondak's thread.

John Kerry's a boob. But so is every major democratic candidate that's available. ;) None of them are going to beat Bush when it comes down to it.

P.S. I hate Bush.

Kerry can't speak, that is why he has Teddy Kennedy with him. When did you ever hear him say something of substance. As for why he wants to President? because he want to be!

Holy thread jack batman!

Well - If anyone knows - the mic is yours....

John Kerry in a nutshell.

Limousine Liberal

http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...ne_liberal.jpg

Apparently all you are waiting for is the opportunity to make a rant or express your opinion of him since you have absolutely no interest in what anyone else has to say - pro or con. Make your rant and get it over with and you can end this debate you are having with yourself.

I wouldn't be that hard on him. No one has explained Kerry (cept me heh).

Well - I don't quite know what to say to that. Other than being told that he is a "boob" and that he won't win against Bush, I don't know that I learned anything here.

I quite readlily admitted to not knowing anything about John Kerry AND not being able to be objective because the only thing I have to go on is when he rants on talk shows. As such, I don't know that I would have a very credible position to bash someone else or whatever. People are voting for this guy, so there must be some attraction.

As stated above, any information from anyone who knows anything about JOHN KERRY would help me understand my world better. Despite what I am being told here, it is nothing more than a legitimate search for knowledge.

Maybe this will help, the ever poignant Kim du Toit:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/funct...7-084854-4468r Link to his voting history.

I'd say people are voting for him because he looks and speaks good. Issues take a backseat to "electibility."

Not sure that really helped, Phaenx. The article is logically inconsistent and has to resort to name-calling (cocksucking commie sympathizer? geez - what decade is this?!?) to make any kind of point, which it doesn't, really. I think it's the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty to question someone's patriotism - particularly a veteran - simply because he doesn't line up and salute a questionable war. If that were the case, half the fricking Pentagon and a slew of Bush's own military advisors would be Benedict Arnolds themselves. Much easier to throw around expletives than to actually deal seriously with the ambiguity and complexity of the situation.

hear hear, lurkette!

However, I think i might be able to help the thread. I can't "Explain" Kerry, persay, but i found this site a while back, and I refer back to it a lot to check each candidate's platform. (I'd paste it on here, but it wouldn't translate over very well...you'll see what I mean.)

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/spe...dex.kerry.html

And you can even click on the headshots of the other candidates to see their platforms! :)

Geez, that's easy. Kerry's an anti-Bush. Against tax breaks for millionaires. For the environment. For free speech. For freedom of religion. etc.

A Kerry presidency would hopefully mean an end to ironically named legislation like "No Child Left Behind" and "Clear Skies Initiative"

Wow what a bunch of claptrap that was.

More of the damn "Commie Sympathiser" Bullshit? How can you post that and think that anyone who isn't already that far right, could look at that and give half a though to what you just provided to us?

Anyway. I didn't want to even get into this. I can enthusiastically support Kerry if/when he gets the Democratic Nomination. But he really isn't my guy. He isn't particularly engaging, even now.
My personal preference is Dean, Edwards, Kerry, Clark.

But anyway. Kerry is 3rd on the liberal scale in this election. Kuchinich, Edwards, then Kerry.

He has 5 war medals from Nam and testified against it in the Senate in one of the most widely distributed speeches in American History. It's in most every famous speech book.
"How can you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?"
I guess that makes him a commie sympathiser! :p
He was Instrumental in exposing Iran Contra as a senator
I guess that makes him a commie sympathiser too....
Has an almost perfect liberal voting record punctuated by one of his biggest issues of fighting Acid Rain when he was a Lt. Governor.
He recieved an award from the League of Conservation Voters Award who honored him for having one of the best environmental voting record over previous 5 years. in 1998.

Former Senator and Vietnam Veteran/amputee Max Cleland is endorsing him, as is Gary Hart.

Issues, well here:
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

He's big on the environment, and that is one of my core issues.

Ask how he made his money :)

I don't have time now, but why dont you fill us in Superbelt.

He married into it. So what?

hmm, I just read some stuff on him yesterday, but I can't find it anymore. I think it was along the lines of what superbelt posted.

I don't know much about Kerry, but my wife likes him best. So I started searching around and I like his environmental stance. I also like universal health coverage, but unlike Kerry, I really am a commie so I'd like to see free universal coverage instead of the option to buy into the same plan that senators and the president can (which is what he proposes) :).

If Kerry is married to Heinz, then I remember that commentators were remarking many conservatives would have a hard time saying anything overtly negative about the couple since she is the recent widow of a beloved conservative senator.

I wish I knew more about his childhood. Does anyone know?

I connected with the fact that Edwards and Dean grew up middle class.

How many times and under what circumstances?

Why did he leave his first rich wife?

You evidently have enough time to keep coming back and posting snide remarks.

If you've got a point to make, just post it.

Kerry grew up in an upper middle-class background. There's definitely a contrast with Bush and Clinton, who both used connections to get out of going to Vietnam, and it says something about Kerry, that he volunteered to go fight in a war that most in his generation were trying their hardest to get out of. And cheers to him for sharing the stage Tuesday night with his fellow veterans, especially Max Cleland.

You can hem and haw and make allusions to him being a gold digger. Go ahead.

Theresa Heinz is the widow of a prominent senator. Naturally the kinds of circles that both have been running in for decades could bring two people recently out of their respective marriages together.

Having grown up in a moderately rich neighborhood, he would again, have gone through the same circles as his first wife did. He had already gained a measure of success by the time they met. Powerful people are drawn together.
He left his first wife because he wasn't strong enough to deal with her intense Depression that she developed through their marriage.

They have apparently gotten over it as the former Mrs Kerry has publicly thrown her support behind his presidential bid.

As a long-time Kerry fan and supporter, I could go on at length, but I thought it would be better for you to read about his policy stands for yourself.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

Take some time, read what he has to say - you really need to go into the detailed descriptions of his policies- and decide what you think of him.

Personally, I think Kerry represents an opportunity to restore honorable, dedicated and insightful governance in the White House. His experiences and knowledge give him a pool of resources that no other candidate, including President Bush, can match. His stands on the environment and intuitive thinking on education and job creation will help lead this country to prosperity. His extensive foreign policy background and commitment to making the U.S. a true leader in world affairs will help to ensure that we have a safe and respected nation.

Individuals who know him, regardless of political affiliation, have a great deal of respect for him. A local businessman who is a major fund-raiser for Bush was recently quoted as saying that while he certainly hopes and will work dilligently to ensure that President Bush remains in office, if he wakes up the day after the election, and John Kerry is president he won't lose any sleep.


Let me know what you think.

I guess that's as close as I'm going to get. I suppose that about the time I get my Ph.D. and move into the upper-middle class is about the time he'll be up for re-election. The difference, as I see it, is that I didn't grow up that way so my ideology is shaped by a different class background (more similar to Edwards' and maybe Dean's). But I can respect his ideas, I have a few friends now from that class and, even though we don't see eye-to-eye on a number of things, we can meet on most of them.

He doesn't have those medals any more. He threw them on the steps of the capitol during a protest.

I like Kerry, and Dean, and Edwards. I'd be happy with any of them instead of Bush.

LIE.

He said he threw them, later it was found he had them framed in his office. Now he claims he threw someone ELSES medals for them.

Whether he has the original medals or not is irrelevant. He earned them, and can always buy replacements on any military base he goes to.

Ustwo, calling somebody else a liar is pretty harsh. The question is, did he knowingly lie and deceive the rest of the board, or was the intelligence that was presented to him faulty?? Tell ya what, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

It was Kerry who lied about it, the poster was just mistaken.

If I wasn't clear, the LIE was for Kerry himself.

Thanks to the link to the issues from mml and Superbelt. I read them over and it is pretty clear to me that his ideas are not what I have in mind for our country, but I do get it. It definitly helped me to understand where he is coming from and what his agenda is and that is a good thing.

I also enjoyed the CNN thing that contrasted the different candidates on the same issues. That was somewhat helpful so thanks mystmarimatt.

Finally - lurkette, you helped change the tone of this thread with some gentle prodding. Thanks a lot - I was not being effective at communicating what I hoped to gain from this thread.

The one thing that I still don't grasp quite yet is why Kerry over the other Democratic hopefulls? Is it that his policies are speaking most to the needs of the voters? Does he just have an intangible presence that others like? Is it as simple as he is a more charasmatic speaker than the others and somewhat similar in their plans to change the country? In a lot of respects when I use the CNN tool and also use what little I know, Dennis Kucinich, Edwards, Gephard (out) and Kerry are somewhat on the same page.

What do you all think?

Ah, more of Ustwo's usual MO, quote a bunch of negative attacks and provide no links and no corroboration.

As for "Why Kerry?" I like the idea of a commander-in-chief who has actually seen combat deciding when to send military forces overseas, as opposed to the chickenhawlks we have today. I'm curious, Mondak where does your hatred of this guy come from?

This just doesn't sound like enough to draw a man's hate to me...

You know I'm sick of people being to lazy to google.

I of course come across many of these things in general reading. Now for a link for you Sparhawk.


http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/newrepl...&postid=927211



There are a lot of them out there, try 'John Kerry medals lie'. His voting record is public, you can look it up yourself :rolleyes:

Settle down boys.

Sparhawk, keep it civil.

Ustwo, it is common courtesy to provide links or at least reference to your sources. You yourself would likely scoff at someone who backed up an argument with "I read it somewhere." If you're "too lazy" to provide your sources, don't gripe at those who are "too lazy" to go hunting for them.

Now play nice.

Kerry Has Voted Against A Balanced Budget Amendment At Least Five Times.
Mind providing us with links which may provide us with some context? I thought not, this one falls apart.
Kerry Voted Against President Bush's Tax Cuts, At Least The Tenth Key Anti-Tax Relief Vote Of His Senate Career.
Woo hoo! Good for him! That earns the Intelligent Americans vote!
Kerry Voted For The Biggest Tax Increase In American History Under President Clinton.
A tax increase for the top ten%. Know what happened to our economy a few years after that? We had one of the biggest economic booms in american history and Clinton started paying down our national debt with the SURPLUS
_________________
Kerry Has Voted For At Least Seven Major Reductions In Defense And Military Spending Necessary For Our National Security.

In 1996, Introduced Bill To Slash Defense Department Funding By $6.5 Billion.

In 1995, Voted To Freeze Defense Spending For 7 Years, Slashing Over $34 Billion From Defense.

Fiscal 1996 Budget Resolution – Defense Freeze. “Harkin, D-Iowa, amendment to freeze defense spending for the next seven years and transfer the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training.”

In 1993, Introduced Plan To Cut Numerous Defense Programs, Including:

Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews

Reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one

Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force

Terminate the Navy’s coastal mine-hunting ship program

Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces in one year.

Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Defense Spending, Including:

In 1993, Voted Against Increased Defense Spending For Military Pay Raise. Kerry voted to kill an increase in military pay over five years.

In 1992, Voted To Cut $6 Billion From Defense.

In 1991, Voted To Slash Over $3 Billion From Defense, Shift Money To Social Programs.

In 1991, Voted To Cut Defense Spending By 2%.

Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Or Eliminate Funding For B-2 Stealth Bomber Has Voted Repeatedly Against Missile Defense. Weapons Kerry Sought To Phase Out Were Vital In Iraq. “[K]erry supported cancellation of a host of weapons systems that have become the basis of US military might -- the high-tech munitions and delivery systems on display to the world as they leveled the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein in a matter of weeks.” (Brian C. Mooney, “Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One,” The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)
Context. For instance, Paul Wellstone got smeared by Bill Frist during his last campaign over a bill that gave an inordinate amount of money for Seaweed control in a republicans district. The bill also had a little bit of text that helped infants get innoculated I believe. It was worthless and Wellstone voted against it. Frist then ran ads against Paul saying he voted against inncoulating babies. There's a lot of context that needs to be inserted here. I guess we should all take you at your word for EVERY ONE OF THESE. Hmm?

__________
Military hardware he felt we no longer need since the "cold war" is past. The money would be better spent on "social" programs. These weapons are now the core of our military might.

F-16 Fighting Falcons.

B-1Bs B-2As F-15 And F-16s.

M1 Abrams.

Patriot Missile.

AH-64 Apache Helicopter

Tomahawk Cruise Missile.

Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser

During 1980s, Kerry And Michael Dukakis Joined Forces With Liberal Group Dedicated To Slashing Defense. Kerry sat on the board of “Jobs With Peace Campaign,” which sought to “develop public support for cutting the defense budget…”(“Pentagon Demonstrators Call For Home-Building, Not Bombs,” The Associated Press, 6/3/88)

Running For Congress In 1972, Kerry Promised To Cut Defense Spending. “On what he’ll do if he’s elected to Congress, Kerry said he would ‘bring a different kind of message to the president.’ He said he would vote against military appropriations.” (“Candidate’s For Congress Capture Campus In Andover,” Lawrence [MA] Eagle-Tribune, 4/21/72)

“So you can look at all the potential threats of the world, and when you add the expenditures of all of our allies to the United States of America, you have to stop and say to yourself, ‘What is it that we are really preparing for in a post-cold-war world?’”(Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 5/15/96, p. S5061)

Apparently, Kerry was blissfully unaware of any of the multitude of terror attacks and threats against the country. If we had listened to him, we would have no military at all.

Kerry was also one of those who helped castrate our CIA and intelligence gathering, which, along with Clinton's total ignoring of the problem, led to 9/11 and the present global war on terror we are now fighting.

Watch for this book to come out by Richard Clarke.
It is very critical of Bush for disregarding all warnings, and disregarding the plans he, Clinton and a gaggle of other national security experts drew up to take the war to Osama, a year before the 9/11 attacks.

Clarke Bio
Since May 1998, Clarke was the first National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism.

I suppose what angers me is the lack of intellectual effort of some of our board members on these topics. If you are going to support someone in writing I expect you would have at least done a little reading on them beyond the press release.

As a personal example, in the primaries for the 2000 election, I thought McCain was the right choice. He seemed dynamic, at ease with the media, a vet, all good things. Then I started to learn about him and it became apparent he was not a great senator, but a great self promoter. He sponsored bills not on their merit but on their publicity. He was a camera hound who would switch party lines at times not out of personal belief, but just for the cameras that always follow a republican who does so. We just got over an Ego president, the country didn't need another one.

If you like John Kerry I'd expect you to learn about him, how he married a rich girl, left her when she had depression, and even tried to have the marriage annulled despite having 2 children with her while he moved on the next even richer widow. I'd expect you to know about his war protests, but also know that there were allegations of him setting up fake testimony with phony vets, or his medal tossing flip flop. I would expect you to know he has voted his entire career to cut the military and limit the CIA. If you still like him fine, but you should at least be aware of it if you did even a basic look at the man.

Maybe I expect to much from the crowd but I always have hope.

You know the big problem comes from being mostly a cynic anyway. Politicians make me feel so helpless to change anything. Most if not all of them are bought and paid for long before you would ever see them on TV or the news. When folks tell us what they think will get them to where they need to be rather than what they truely believe, it sucks. That goes for everyone from every political walk of life so lets not start a flame war.

As for Kerry, maybe it is not his fault, he just aggrivated my own issues. When I continue to listen to him on TV and read what he has to say, it seems he has identified a lot of problems with this country and really has not given a lot of concrete solutions. Again - lets not make this flame bait - you asked and I answered. I am not saying I am right or that this is isolated to Kerry. They all do it. I just saw a lot lately from him since he gets a lot of airtime.

That same reason is what made me want to start this thread. I like to know why folks are attracted one way or another so I can make sure I weigh what others feel or have to say. I see lots of folks attracted to Kerry and wonder why. BTW, if Edwards or one of the others was doing well in the polls, I might have started this thread about him instead.

See, Kerry is Catholic. If you have much experience with the Catholic church you would know how intensely they frown upon divorce.
You are made a pariah if you divorce and then remarry in the Catholic Church. You are not permitted to hold any positions of importance with the church, not Usher, not fundraiser. You are not allowed to receive communion and your marriage is not recognized by the church whatsoever.

A Catholic who wishes to remain an active part of his church must get an annulment before they allow him to get married again.

I am saddened by your lack of intellectual effort in this matter. You have the temerity to bring up him wanting an annulment, but you fail to inform us what happens to a practicing Catholic if he does not get one before he gets married. That is an important part of the issue that you leave out.
The way you phrased it, you make him look like a monster who wants only to hurt the woman who fathered his first two children.
But maybe that was your intent. I really didn't expect much from you. But I always have hope.
:suave:

Additionally, his ex-Wife's Depression was starting to pull Kerry down with her. They would be at social or political functions, Kerry would speak a little and his wife would quip in with harsh and nasty criticisms that would thoroughly embarass him.
It's all documented in her book. Example after example of the many things that her depression did to drive Kerry away from her.

Do I like that he divorced her over that? No, it isn't something I would do or approve of. It was 22 years ago though. And people aren't perfect. Presidential History is full of flawed men. Lord knows Clinton and Bush have their character flaws.

Mondak, this is pretty perceptive of you. I think much of the Dean backlash began because all we heard from the media was how this guy was it and he was everywhere. Now, it is Kerry's turn at the helm and we will see how well he stands up. The fact is that Kerry is a traditional politician and that often turns people off. Add the fact that you can't seem to go a half hour without seeing him or hearing him or hearing about him and it gets irritating - and remember, he's the guy I've liked all along.

I respect that you have taken the time to see what he is all about, and I wish more people would do the same.

As far as Ustwo, I understand you get frustrated when people zip off one-liners and press releases, just make sure you don't do the same. Most Americans, regardless of party, are too busy or lazy to do the research necessary. I respect that you generally do your due diligence before posting but before labeling Senator Kerry as "unfit" for some of his personal foibles and private life decisions, you should consider some the life choices made by President Bush. (This is not meant to start a thread war, it is just a statement that EVERYONE has things in their past they may not be proud of. Those things don't necessarily prohibit them from being good, successful people in the future.)

mml - I am super glad you did not get all pissed at me for saying I did not agree with Kerry that much. I was afraid of starting a flame war with some folks who don't understand civil conversation.

Just because I don't agree with his politics does not mean he (or you for that matter) is a bad guy. It also does not mean that I should not look deeper into what he has to say. I mean if people think he is a decent guy, then I owe it to myself to at least find out why . . . right or wrong in my eyes.

I noticed your new avatar. good for you. As I mentioned in another thread, it has been a long time since I followed someone I believed in rather than the "lesser of two evils". Glad you found someone you liked enough. If you ever want to expand on why you like this fellow in paticular vs. some of the other dems, I would love to hear it.

I can assume that we would find common ground over some brews that our current leadership lacks some things. . .

Here is Kerry on the issues:
http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm

Here is a profile of the younger Kerry:
http://www.democracynow.org/article..../01/28/1623208
http://www.democracynow.org/article..../01/29/1549203

Kerry, along with Bush, is also a member of Yale's now infamous secret society: Skull & Bones...
http://www.democracynow.org/article....=thread&tid=25

From the horse's mouth, so to speak:

If is on John Kerry's web site, how could anyone dispute it or its intent?

Dispute it all you want, but the intent is clear: rebut the republican attack dogs. It's also a nice change of pace, what with providing sources and quotes.

I read it and several times the responder dodges the charge by saying, look what Kerry did vote for.