Hillary Clinton Truly Regrets Ghandi Joke

[onetime2]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html


Hillary Clinton 'truly regrets' Gandhi joke
Remarks called stereotypical, racially insensitive
Tuesday, January 6, 2004 Posted: 9:05 PM EST (0205 GMT)

ST. LOUIS, Missouri (AP) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton apologized for joking that Mahatma Gandhi used to run a gas station in St. Louis, saying it was "a lame attempt at humor."

The New York Democrat made the remark at a fund-raiser Saturday. During an event here for Senate candidate Nancy Farmer, Clinton introduced a quote from Gandhi by saying, "He ran a gas station down in St. Louis."

After laughter from many in the crowd of at least 200 subsided, the former first lady continued, "No, Mahatma Gandhi was a great leader of the 20th century." In a nod to Farmer's underdog status against Republican Sen. Kit Bond, Clinton quoted the Indian independence leader as saying: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

The director of a U.S. center devoted to Gandhi's teachings called the remarks stereotypical and racially insensitive, while an educator said the flap underscored the need for politicians to be cautious when trying to get laughs.

"Political speeches can't be like episodes of The Simpsons," said David Robertson, a University of Missouri-St. Louis political science professor.

After being approached by The Associated Press to clarify the remarks, Clinton suggested in a statement sent late Monday that she never meant to fuel any stereotype -- often used as a comedic punch line -- that certain ethnic groups were synonymous with operating America's gas stations.

"I have admired the work and life of Mahatma Gandhi and have spoken publicly about that many times," Clinton said in a two-sentence statement. "I truly regret if a lame attempt at humor suggested otherwise."

So does Michelle Naef, administrator of the M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence, the Memphis, Tennessee-based nonprofit group founded in 1991 by a Gandhi grandson to promote his grandfather's teachings, including nonviolent resistance.

While crediting Clinton and her husband, former President Clinton, as long having "supported the Gandhi message," Naef said Saturday's remarks "could be incredibly harmful" in perpetuating racial myths.

"I don't think she was, in any way, trying to demean Mahatma Gandhi," Naef said. "To be generous to her, I would say it was a poor attempt at humor. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive, but I find it offensive when people use stereotypes in that way."

To Robertson, the professor, the flap demonstrates the potential peril of when humor by politicians falls flat.

"The more prominent the politician, the more they've taken positions on equality in the past as Mrs. Clinton has, the more this is going to be troubling to some people," he said. "It's understandable that groups want to make sure they're treated with complete respect."

When it comes to Hillary Clinton, he said, "there's no reason to think she doesn't admire Gandhi, like so many people do. After all, Gandhi was influential to Martin Luther King Jr., and I know she respects King."

The first thing I have to say about this is that it's another example of a politician just being stupid. How many times do they have to make these types of mistakes before they learn? To all you politician wannabes out there, rule number one, watch what you say and don't try to ad lib jokes.

The second is that I wonder if as big of a deal will be made about this in the national press as was made of Trent Lott's comments about Strom Thurmond. If there's a big to-do made about this maybe the press isn't as biased as some believe. If there's not, well, perhaps it is.

[Peetster]

Everyone makes mistakes. Time to move on.

[Ustwo]

Nothing will be made out of it.

Only Republicans can be racist, the mainstream press will drop what little coverage it got, and it will be burried faster then Jesse Jacksons 'Heimi Town'.

Now just think if Frist said it.

[Lebell]

Shoot,

I don't care who does it, a dem or a repub.

I stupid joke is just nothing to get your panties in a bunch about.

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by onetime2
The first thing I have to say about this is that it's another example of a politician just being stupid. How many times do they have to make these types of mistakes before they learn? To all you politician wannabes out there, rule number one, watch what you say and don't try to ad lib jokes.

The second is that I wonder if as big of a deal will be made about this in the national press as was made of Trent Lott's comments about Strom Thurmond. If there's a big to-do made about this maybe the press isn't as biased as some believe. If there's not, well, perhaps it is.

Having sat through a lot of speeches, the jokes that seem to work the best are the self-deprecating ones.

I was wondering where this was going. You do realize that you are linking to CNN, widely known as a bastion of conservative thought.

[onetime2]

Originally posted by Peetster
Everyone makes mistakes. Time to move on.

Is that a moderator statement or personal opinion? If it's an "official" reprimand of the thread can you tell me why it's not allowable to discuss two similar political situations? Thanks.

[onetime2]

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Having sat through a lot of speeches, the jokes that seem to work the best are the self-deprecating ones.

I was wondering where this was going. You do realize that you are linking to CNN, widely known as a bastion of conservative thought.

Absolutley agree about the self deprecating jokes working the best. The only time you can make fun of someone when you're in the front of the room is yourself (unless of course you're at a roast or you're a comedian).

What does cnn linking have to do with anything? The point is she made a stupid comment, not unlike Lott's stupid comment and the national press went wild for it. Will it happen here or has the nation suddenly gone beyond that pettiness?

BTW, FWIW, I absolutely would not hold it against a politician that they made a mistake. I am sure this was a simple mistake and anyone in the public eye making hundreds of speeches a year will do something similarly stupid.

How it's played in the press however absolutely has a lot to do with what comes of it though. I don't believe Clinton should suffer because of a misguided joke, just as I don't believe Lott should have been shattered by the scrutiny of his remarks.

[MSD]

I believe that Peetster was commenting on Hillary, not the thread itself. If a thread is unacceptable, it will be closed. This thread is still open for discussion.

I don't think the remark was as severe as Lott's, but I think that she should watch her mouth and realize that it's better to be silent than to make a failed attempt at humor and end up insulting someone's heritage. I really don't know what she was trying to do, I don't see any way it could have been made funny. The voters will just have to decide whether it was severe enough to cause them to vote her out. In such a tense international situation (war on terror) that is percieved by many abroad to be partially race-based, we have to make sure that our leaders don't screw up and diminish our country' already suffering image.

[Ustwo]

Hehe if Robert Byrd got away with saying he knew a lot of 'white niggers' (and not in a friendly way), as well as having a history with the Clan, you KNOW this isn't going to draw fire.

While personally I don't think its a big deal, I just wish it was fair on both sides.

[onetime2]

Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
I believe that Peetster was commenting on Hillary, not the thread itself. If a thread is unacceptable, it will be closed. This thread is still open for discussion.

I don't think the remark was as severe as Lott's, but I think that she should watch her mouth and realize that it's better to be silent than to make a failed attempt at humor and end up insulting someone's heritage. I really don't know what she was trying to do, I don't see any way it could have been made funny. The voters will just have to decide whether it was severe enough to cause them to vote her out. In such a tense international situation (war on terror) that is percieved by many abroad to be partially race-based, we have to make sure that our leaders don't screw up and diminish our country' already suffering image.

OK, just wanted to be clear on it. Sometimes I get confused when a moderator posts personal opinion, especially when it's similar to other admonitions I've seen used in other threads.

Interesting point about the international aspect to the comment, I was only thinking about domestic impact. Hadn't thought about it along the international lines. It could certainly be seen pretty negatively in that respect. Hopefully it does not catch on in the international press.

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by Ustwo
Hehe if Robert Byrd got away with saying he knew a lot of 'white niggers' (and not in a friendly way), as well as having a history with the Clan, you KNOW this isn't going to draw fire.

While personally I don't think its a big deal, I just wish it was fair on both sides.

Do you have any of his statements made in the last couple of years to back that up? I already think of him as an old crank, but I'm under the impression that, like Strom Thurmond, and UN-like Trent Lott, he shed his racist past long ago.

As to the issue of fairness, the vast majority of our racist Democrats left our Party back in the sixties. Now if Hillary had said something racist, and didn't apologize, and her statement was backed up by a lifetime of other comments and support of racist policy, then maybe you'd have a case. But she doesn't, and you don't.

[Ustwo]

March 2001

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/mic...lkin030801.asp

The ex-Klansman showed his true colors when asked by Fox News Sunday morning talk show host Tony Snow about the state of race relations in America. Sen. Byrd warned: "There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I'm going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much."

Think that about sums it up. I note the democrats who wanted Lott to resign didn't say anything about it either.

[Phaenx]

You can't make fun of Ghandi? Fuck Ghandi, violence is fun.

This is good for me at least. I don't want her to be president in '08, and this will likely show up around that time as political ammunition.

[Superbelt]

Lott's situation was different. He has been linked to overtly racist groups and made his comment in support of a failed presidential election campaign whose only real election plank was segregation. Saying that we wouldn't have these "problems we have today if he was elected"

Hillary made a stupid stereotypical joke. Apology was necessary, but not anywhere the same as what Lott said.

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by Ustwo
March 2001

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/mic...lkin030801.asp


Think that about sums it up. I note the democrats who wanted Lott to resign didn't say anything about it either.

Context is such an interesting thing...

Just Who WAS the "White Nigger" Senator Byrd Was Thinking About?
An apology to cover up the identity of the "White Nigger"
By: Mary Mostert, Analyst, Banner of Liberty (www.bannerofliberty.com)

March 5, 2001 Tony Snow on Fox News had just previously asked Sen. Robert Byrd, seven term Democrat of West Virginia, "What is his (Bill Clinton's) legacy for your party?" Senator Byrd responded without hesitation:

"You can see his legacy right here on Capitol Hill and down at the other end of the Avenue - a Republican House, a Republican Senate and a Republican White House. That's part of his legacy."
Tony Snow: "What's the other part?"

"A lowering of the standards of our culture. I've been in Washington 49 years. In these past few years I've seen a more rapid deterioration in the country's culture than ever before."

Tony Snow didn't allow him to elaborate on that point but quickly changed to another issue:

"Let me throw a couple of names out at you to get a quick reaction - Jesse Jackson."

"I've never been an enthusiastic admirer of Jesse Jackson. He made a bad mistake. We all make mistakes. I made a mistake as a young man and it's always been an albatross around my neck - I joined the Ku Klux Klan. We all make mistakes. We can strive to overcome them. That's his situation.

"What he and his God work out between themselves is their business."

The next names Snow threw out were "Terry McAuliffe" (Byrd said: "Bad Choice") and "Ronald Reagan" (Byrd said: "a very likeable individual, charming personality. He had one, two or three ideas about government and kept those ideas in front of him always…" And before Byrd finished his thought Snow threw out: "race relations." The 83 year old senator responded with the following rather remarkable, and seemingly disjointed comment:

"They are much, much better than they have ever been in my lifetime. As a personal opinion, I think we talk about race too much. I think those problems are largely behind us. I think we can all profit by our mistakes. I think we have reached a new plateau. And, I think it is going to keep going upward.- the understanding and race relations.

"I think…I just think …we talk so much about it we create somewhat of an illusion …uh…uh…I think we should try to have good will. My old Mom told me, 'Robert, you can't go to heaven if you hate anybody.' We practice that."

And then came the bombshell. His tone of voice changed and he said firmly,

"There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time …it you want to use that word. We all…we all just need to work together to make our country a better country.
"I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much."

A clearly horrified younger generation among the Senator's staff and even Tony Snow tried almost instantly to try to undo the inevitable damage. His office issued a statement in an obvious effort to head off any media speculation about just who the "white nigger" he was thinking about might be. The statement said::

"I apologize for the characterization I used on this program. The phrase dates back to my boyhood and has no place in today's society.

"As for my language, I had no intention of casting aspersions on anyone of another race. In my attempt to articulate strongly held feelings, I may have offended people. . . ."

Senator Byrd was obviously not thinking about a black person when he talked of "White Niggers." What, exactly, IS a "White Nigger?"

Robert Byrd was a "boy" following World War I. The term "nigger" had a very specific meaning back in those days. It was not a term used for all black people. Black people were called "Negroes," a Spanish or Portuguese word meaning "Black." "Negro" merely described their skin. It was not inherently derogatory. It was merely descriptive of their skin color. The Latin word for "black" is "niger" which quite possibly was the origin of the word "nigger." When Robert Byrd was growing up "nigger" was a term used to define a black person of low character and loose morals. When I was growing up in the South in the 1930s and 1940s it was a term I heard almost invariably used by black people themselves, very much as it is used today in gangsta rap and blues music. Black Mississippi blues singer Sam Chatman sang::

Say God made us all, he made some at night
That's why he didn't take time to make us all white
Let me tell you one thing that a Stumptown nigger will do
He'll pull up young cotton and he'll kill baby chickens, too
I'm bound to change my name, I have to paint my face
So I won't be kin to that Ethiopian race

Those who would pull up the young cotton plants or kill baby chicks, clearly, were just no good, since cotton and chickens were often the only source of cash.

Putting Senator Byrd in the context of his own generation, then, what or who was he thinking about when he said "There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time." ?

Who, of the people mentioned in his chat with Tony Snow did he feel fit his generation's definition of a white person with low character and loose morals? Who was the white person that Sen. Byrd believes has caused a "more rapid deterioration in the country's culture."?

The person Senator Byrd mentioned was clearly Bill Clinton. In f act, coming from a Southern culture, as he fell into Tony Snow's "word association" game with little time to think out his answers, I immediately thought "Bill Clinton" when he said "white nigger." Since my mother would roll over in her grave if she ever heard me say the word "nigger," I wouldn't use the word in describing the Clintons, but have used the term which was used BY the Clinton White House when they described Paula Jones as "white trash" when describing some of Clinton's behavior." I was promptly scolded by a white person who claimed they were in the "white trash" category and who felt insulted that they might be linked with Clinton.

White Southerners commonly use the word "white trash" in describing white people they believe have low cultural and moral standards much as blacks use the word "nigger" to describe blacks who have low cultural and moral standards.

And just who is it that has been described by the media as "America's first black president?" None other than Bill Clinton.

What Sen. Byrd expressed last night are probably his true feelings about the man he sees as having decimated the Democrat Party - the party he has given nearly 50 years of his life to. I seriously doubt that his slip-of-the-tongue will damage him much in his home state of West Virginia, should he decide to run again. I expect the West Virginia voters will understand exactly what their Senator was trying to say.

Calling Bill Clinton the equivalent of "white trash" just reinforces my opinion of Byrd, but look at the context. Where is the racism? I read 3 other editorials, and the most recent they could come up with was 1964, when he filibustered the CRA. And before that? A letter he wrote in 1947. This is the best they can do? Thank you, drive through.

[onetime2]

Originally posted by Superbelt
Lott's situation was different. He has been linked to overtly racist groups and made his comment in support of a failed presidential election campaign whose only real election plank was segregation. Saying that we wouldn't have these "problems we have today if he was elected"

Hillary made a stupid stereotypical joke. Apology was necessary, but not anywhere the same as what Lott said.

He was merely trying to pay tribute to the fact that Strom ran for President. He was not saying that segregation would solve the problems of today. He was no more saying what you claim as Hillary was saying "All Indians run gas stations."

[Superbelt]

Bull. Strom really only ran on one issue and that was segregation. That's all the man was even known for.

To say we wouldn't have all these problems we have today, there isn't any other way to really construe it.

Especially with Lott's very recent history, as in pictures of him and correspondences within the year, with very overtly racist groups.

[onetime2]

Originally posted by Superbelt
Bull. Strom really only ran on one issue and that was segregation. That's all the man was even known for.

To say we wouldn't have all these problems we have today, there isn't any other way to really construe it.

Especially with Lott's very recent history, as in pictures of him and correspondences within the year, with very overtly racist groups.

Amazing how you *know* what he meant. Please. You may construe it any way you wish, the simple fact is, he made a stupid statement just like Hillary. But since Hillary is so above reproach her off color joke must have just been floating in the air and somehow came from her lips.

[MuadDib]

Apparently democrat and republican politicians are guilty of having a lame sense of humor.

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by onetime2
Amazing how you *know* what he meant. Please. You may construe it any way you wish, the simple fact is, he made a stupid statement just like Hillary. But since Hillary is so above reproach her off color joke must have just been floating in the air and somehow came from her lips.

Conservatives have been mindlessly bashing Hillary since her husband first started his presidential bid in '91. She is in no way above the fray.

Now, how many more years until you guys finally take the bit out of your teeth?

[KWSN]

You know, I would fucking hate to be a politician. If you ever make a fucking joke it offends SOMEONE and you have to go saving face for WEEKS if it does. Personally I found nothing offensive about that. Nothing funny either but it is what it is: a bad joke. Not an OFFENSIVE joke.

Now I'm not trying to stick up for Hilary because I dislike her and her politics but that's beside the point. I think that it's idiotic that she should HAVE to regret the joke because there was nothing wrong with it.

On another note you really should make sure something is funny before you try to make it funny in front of a large crowd otherwise there is a good chance you will end up looking stupid.

EDIT: By the way, it is not a stereotypical joke. That is not what she was getting at. She was just trying to channel some humor using Gandhi's name as a "Gas Station attendant." She could have quoted somone with a completely "American" name and done the same thing. It was inopportune that she used Gandhi's in particular because people would misinterpret it in a "racist" or "stereotypical" sense.

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by KWSN
On another note you really should make sure something is funny before you try to make it funny in front of a large crowd otherwise there is a good chance you will end up looking stupid.

"After laughter from many in the crowd of at least 200 subsided,"

Apparently it was funny. I think I'd have to hear the whole joke though, instead of the snippet taken out of context (do we have a recurring theme here??).

[KWSN]

Originally posted by Sparhawk
"After laughter from many in the crowd of at least 200 subsided,"

Apparently it was funny. I think I'd have to hear the whole joke though, instead of the snippet taken out of context (do we have a recurring theme here??).

according to my local paper it went a but like this:

[gandhi quote]. that was said by mahatma gandhi, a worker at a gas station down in st. louis. *laughter* [continues]

from everything i gather it seems a safe assumption to me, VERY safe, that it was NOT racist, just misinterpreted.

by the way, the thing about looking stupid when telling jokes didn't apply only to her. many people are guilty of the same.

[Markaz]

I really don't like that women. Also, all the gas station owners around here are asian so I really don't care. I don't think I would care if they were Indian.

[Endymon32]

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Conservatives have been mindlessly bashing Hillary since her husband first started his presidential bid in '91. She is in no way above the fray.

Now, how many more years until you guys finally take the bit out of your teeth?

Hilary bashing is never mindless.,,,

[onetime2]

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Conservatives have been mindlessly bashing Hillary since her husband first started his presidential bid in '91. She is in no way above the fray.

Now, how many more years until you guys finally take the bit out of your teeth?

Ahh yes, it's the conservatives fault. My how original. How many years has it been since Reagan? I could care less if her name is Clinton, Kennedy, Bush, or Cheney.

I'll bet this is all part of that vast right wing conspiracy.

[KWSN]

Originally posted by Endymon32
Hilary bashing is never mindless.,,,

Mindless goes hand in hand with the word "bashing."

[Lebell]

Are we beating another dead horse?

[prb]

Before it is determined that someone deserves to face repercussions for something they say which may be viewed as insensitive to some particular culture or race of people, you need to first examine the speaker's history of personal and public behavior toward that race or culture. Does the speaker's statement tend to reinforce a present perception that the speaker is opposed to another race or culture and unable to treat them fairly? If so, the speaker deserves public condemnation.

Political officeholders should not be allowed to get away with promoting division between people based on nothing other than skin color or ethnic background.

Having said that, Hillary has nothing in her background to suggest that she harbors any antipathy to India or Indians - - or to any race or ethnic group for that matter. Was her comment intended to be divisive? Certainly not. But her comment wasn't particularly clever or funny either - - as it seems to have been intended. We may even say fairly that her comment was rather stupid.

Anyone spending any time attacking Hillary for her comments
in this instance is overreacting and likely has a political agenda.

[matthew330]

Can we all now agree that Rush isn't a racist for suggesting there is a social concern on the part of the NFL to have a successfull black quarterback.

Great, thanks.

[Mr. Mojo]

I found the audio of it, the only place was this Rush Limbaugh's website...

AUDIO LINK
<a href="http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/clips/04/01/010704_14_hillary.asx">(…play Hillary Clinton's racist joke the world should be outraged over)</a>

[MuadDib]

You know there is a difference between making a claim about race factoring into fame and attention, then sticking behind that claim and making a joke about a famous leading then immediately taking it back and declaring respect for him.

[Ustwo]

I didn't think it was so bad until I heard the audio.

Hillary Clinton is stupider then I thought

[matthew330]

The NFL is clearly concerned about having a successfull black head coach - as evidenced by the fact you get sued if you don't interview an african american, because they are overwhelmingly white.

It's not racist to infer that the NFL would like a successfull black quarterback, who as well are overwhelmingly white. McNabb was getting a boatload of attention, whether or not he deserved it is debatable, if your on the side that he didn't, it's completely reasonable to suggest it is because he is black.

Don't mean to hijack, just wanted to point that out.

Hillary Clinton used a degrading stereotype to get a laugh. There is no argument there.

[MuadDib]

Yes, she obviously holds Ghandi and all Indians in very low regard which is why she pointed out it was a joke and then talked about how great a leader Ghandi was and even quoted him to inspire people to vote for a candidate she endorsed.

[Ustwo]

MaudDib - Just face it, she fucked up, and it was a stupid joke, on the political level, as well as just being not funny.

[filtherton]

Originally posted by matthew330
The NFL is clearly concerned about having a successfull black head coach - as evidenced by the fact you get sued if you don't interview an african american, because they are overwhelmingly white.

It's not racist to infer that the NFL would like a successfull black quarterback, who as well are overwhelmingly white. McNabb was getting a boatload of attention, whether or not he deserved it is debatable, if your on the side that he didn't, it's completely reasonable to suggest it is because he is black.

Don't mean to hijack, just wanted to point that out.

Hillary Clinton used a degrading stereotype to get a laugh. There is no argument there.

Actually, rush was refering to the MEDIA, being very "desirous" for a successful black quarterback. The nfl already has a few successful black QB's. mcnair, culpepper, moon, cunningham, some guy named mike vick and yes, mcnabb.
Didn't rush once tell a black caller to "take the bone out of his nose"?

Don't mean to hijack, just wanted to point that out.

And, if hillary wanted to make a statement similar to the rush/mcnabb she would have said something like, "the city of st. louis is very desirous that an indian should own a gas station so that is really the only reason that an indian man named ghandi(like the activist), whom i know from st. louis, was allowed to purchase his gas station. He really isn't qualified to own his own gas station, but was allowed to out of the desirousness of the city of st. louis".
If she had said that, than i could see comparing the two statements.

[whelming]

If this has a silver lining, perhaps it's that people will finally stop speculating about her running for president this year.
Of course, she's categorically stated that she has no intention of running this year, but that hasn't slowed those who, it seems, want her to run just to see her lose.
And she would, this year. But perhaps not in 2008.

[MuadDib]

Ustwo, you mistake my argument to be a justification of Clinton's humor. it isn't. I will certainly agree that the joke wasn't particularly tasteful and 100% agree that it wasn't funny. However, to liken it to Limbaugh's comments on McNabb or assert that Hillary Clinton is racist is a bit large of a pill for me to swallow and I have and will continue to argue that point.

[madp]

As to the issue of fairness, the vast majority of our racist Democrats left our Party back in the sixties.

I think that's probably true of BOTH parties.