Plame situation update - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

2wolves · 12-30-2003, 10:39 AM

http://fitzgerald.senate.gov/usattor...rm-patfitz.htm

"The investigation will be headed by the U.S. attorney in Chicago, Patrick Fitzgerald, who will report to Ashcroft's new deputy, James Comey, the officials said.

It was not immediately clear why Ashcroft made the decision."

I believe that the establishment in the intel community will not let this one just go away. Don't f with the spooks.

2Wolves

prb · 12-30-2003, 12:00 PM

CIA v GWB

/I'm laying my money down on the CIA.

Superbelt · 12-30-2003, 12:48 PM

http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?ID=3840566&p1=0

Quote:

Special counsel to investigate
leak of CIA agent’s identity
Ashcroft steps aside from inquiry
out of ‘abundance of caution’

WASHINGTON - Attorney General John Ashcroft recused himself from the Justice Department’s investigation of the unauthorized disclosure of an undercover CIA officer’s identity, which will be overseen by a special counsel, Ashcroft's deputy announced Tuesday.

Ashcroft had refused to appoint a special counsel since the CIA requested the investigation in September, as first reported by MSNBC.com and NBC News.

But Deputy Attorney General James B. Comey said at a news conference Tuesday afternoon that Ashcroft felt it was “appropriate” to step aside now “out of an abundance of caution.”

He did not cite a specific development that led to the decision, however, saying, “I can't tell you about the details of any criminal investigation.”

Experienced prosecutor in charge
Comey appointed the U.S. attorney in Chicago, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, as special counsel. He will have independent authority to direct the investigation without seeking approval from Comey, to whom he will report, Comey said.

Fitzgerald, 41, was chief of the Justice Department's Organized Crime-Terrorism Unit before he was confirmed as U.S. attorney in Chicago in October 2001.

This will not be Fitzgerald’s first high-profile investigation. He oversaw the investigation of former Illinois Gov. George Ryan, a Republican who was indicted this month on 22 counts of corruption, including taking free vacations, tax fraud, lying to federal agents and skimming cash out of his own campaign fund. Ryan pleaded innocent a week ago.

Fitzgerald will oversee investigators who are trying to determine who gave three journalists the names of a CIA operations officer who served overseas.

The woman, whose name MSNBC.com and NBC News are not reporting, is married to former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who accused the administration of retaliation after he published an article disputing President Bush’s claims that Iraq had tried to acquire nuclear weapons material in Africa.

The claims, which Wilson investigated in Niger on a mission for the CIA, were part of Bush’s case for war. The White House later said the evidence was unsubstantiated.

White House at center
The White House has ruled out any role by three top administration officials in the leak: political adviser Karl Rove; Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby; and National Security Council official Elliott Abrams.

But the focus remains on the White House, two law enforcement officials told the AP on condition of anonymity. While initial, informal interviews have yielded no major breaks, the FBI is satisfied that the dozen agents assigned to the probe are making progress and have not encountered any stalling tactics, the officials said last week.

So far, no grand jury subpoenas have been issued, they said.

Wilson told NBC News that he was “glad” that Ashcroft had stepped aside. “There was a potential conflict of interest given his relationship with Mr. Rove,” who worked on Ashcroft’s campaign staff during some of his earlier races for the U.S. Senate in Missouri.

Still, “I’m not exactly sure why it it took him to the day before New Year’s [Eve] to make the decision,” Wilson said in a telephone interview.

This is why the special prosecutor was assigned, Ashcroft finally recused himself. The only reason to recuse himself is over conflict of interests. So there must be a pretty decent pile of evidence against Rove in particular (I think Scooter Libby is in this up to his eyeballs as well). Ashcroft has tight ties with Rove. Rove worked on Ashcrofts failed Senatorial campaign.

Looks like things are finally getting done in this case.

mml · 12-30-2003, 01:00 PM

This should be interesting. I can't say I know for sure what this is all about, but regardless this comes at a bad time for the Bush administration. This thing will be heating up as the race for the presidency is in full swing.

Superbelt · 12-30-2003, 01:04 PM

Bush should have taken a lesson from Nixon. It's not the act, but the cover-up that will end up getting you.

Ustwo · 12-30-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
Bush should have taken a lesson from Nixon. It's not the act, but the cover-up that will end up getting you.

Saying Bush and Rove over and over won't make them guilty of doing anything. You can keep wishing though.

Endymon32 · 12-30-2003, 01:36 PM

This is worthless, if found innocent, Superbelt and co will just say it was the "Bush cronies that cleared him". Superbelt declared him guilty so thats all that matters.

Strange Famous · 12-30-2003, 01:41 PM

The prospect of Bush, in chains being lead away to inprisonment is certainly a lovely image!

I dont know enough about the case, is Bush in trouble for lying about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, and then trying to blame the security service?

Blair got in the same trouble, and the UK govt murdered a expert scientist in the case to keep him quiet.

2wolves · 12-30-2003, 01:48 PM

Would it be possible, for one thread, to drop the knee jerk reaction sydrome? Please.

Thank you.

2Wolves

Ustwo · 12-30-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2wolves
Would it be possible, for one thread, to drop the knee jerk reaction sydrome? Please.

Thank you.

2Wolves

There was nothing here to discuss beyond Bush vrs Bush haters, so what did you really expect? A discussion about the CIA? There was no real new info.

2wolves · 12-30-2003, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
There was nothing here to discuss beyond Bush vrs Bush haters, so what did you really expect? A discussion about the CIA? There was no real new info.

Background and track record of the appointed council.

Possible motivation for Ashcroft to make this move now, not six months ago.

Timing of annoucement.

Policy shift from previous statements that the invesitgation could, and should, be done in-house.

Just to get the top couple of items that spring to mind.

Now, you were saying......

2Wolves

filtherton · 01-01-2004, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
There was nothing here to discuss beyond Bush vrs Bush haters, so what did you really expect? A discussion about the CIA? There was no real new info.

You're right. Valerie plame doesn't really even exist. She's really a liberal jason bourne, a myth, created in a secret liberal lab for the sole purpose of discrediting the honorable man-god that is george bush.

I'm surprised it has come to this, given that bush promised to get to the bottom of it oj simpson style.

Ustwo · 01-01-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2wolves
Background and track record of the appointed council.

Possible motivation for Ashcroft to make this move now, not six months ago.

Timing of annoucement.

Policy shift from previous statements that the invesitgation could, and should, be done in-house.

Just to get the top couple of items that spring to mind.

Now, you were saying......

2Wolves

Apparently no one else has anything to say here, perhaps you could start it off.

onetime2 · 01-02-2004, 04:29 PM

Well, one motivation of recusing himself is to remove one of the oft cited anti Bush "facts" that he would obviously clear himself of any wrongdoing. There are plenty of people who will always believe Bush was guilty. There are plenty who will always believe he's innocent. The remainder are important in the next election. Many of them will wait until there's a lot more information available and/or when an investigation has been concluded. This is about denying the Dems one of the sores they are constantly trying to rip open into full blown gashes to win the next election.

2wolves · 01-04-2004, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
Apparently no one else has anything to say here, perhaps you could start it off.

Ok...... The substance here - from the beginning, and now to the appointed prosecutor - is whether the current administration, i.e. the president, accepts such acts and what the S.O.P. In the White House is: Do you hit a political government employee by attacking his family if it involves exposing one of the country's covert spooks and breaking the law?

That's a pretty clear baseline. And by all the information currently available this administration considers it an acceptable act.

2Wolves

2wolves · 01-13-2004, 04:23 AM

Number of days between Novak column outing Valerie Plame and announcement of investigation: 74 days.

Number of days between O'Neill 60 Minutes interview and announcement of investigation: 1 day.

Having the administration reveal itself as a gaggle of hypocritcal goons ... priceless.

(thanks Josh Marshall)

2Wolves

Superbelt · 01-13-2004, 04:46 AM

From the Center for American Progress' "Progress Report":

Quote:

THEN:
No investigation was requested after the Providence Journal reported that "Bob Woodward said the president gave reporters 90 minutes, often speaking candidly about classified information. 'Certainly Richard Nixon would not have allowed reporters to question him [about classified information] like that. Bush's father wouldn't allow it. Clinton wouldn't allow it."

- Providence Journal, 4/10/02

NOW:

"The Treasury Department has asked for an investigation into how a possibly classified document appeared in a televised interview of ex-Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill."

Only thing you really need to explain the discrepancy between the two situations, Plame and O'Neill...

Quote:

"You're either with us or against us."
-George W Bush

Superbelt · 01-13-2004, 09:48 AM

And why wasn't Orrin Hatch prosecuted?

http://www.intellnet.org/news/2001/09/14/6614-1.html

Quote:

WASHINGTON -- A senior senator's disclosure of highly classified information about the U.S. terrorism investigation has infuriated Bush administration officials and led to a clampdown on how much the White House will share with lawmakers.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters hours after terrorists crashed hijacked jetliners into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon that U.S. intelligence had intercepted a telephone call from a suspect reporting to his handler that the targets in New York City and near Washington had been hit.

"They have an intercept of some information that includes people associated with [Osama] bin Laden who acknowledged a couple of targets were hit," Hatch told The Associated Press. He made similar comments to ABC News and said the information had come from officials at the CIA and FBI.

....

His crime was an actual breach of national security, not financial data. And he got nothing. Just a scolding.

12-30-2003, 10:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	Plame situation update http://fitzgerald.senate.gov/usattor...rm-patfitz.htm "The investigation will be headed by the U.S. attorney in Chicago, Patrick Fitzgerald, who will report to Ashcroft's new deputy, James Comey, the officials said. It was not immediately clear why Ashcroft made the decision." I believe that the establishment in the intel community will not let this one just go away. Don't f with the spooks. 2Wolves __________________ Nation of the Cat. Forgive maybe, forget .... not quite yet.

12-30-2003, 01:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	This should be interesting. I can't say I know for sure what this is all about, but regardless this comes at a bad time for the Bush administration. This thing will be heating up as the race for the presidency is in full swing. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

12-30-2003, 01:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	The prospect of Bush, in chains being lead away to inprisonment is certainly a lovely image! I dont know enough about the case, is Bush in trouble for lying about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, and then trying to blame the security service? Blair got in the same trouble, and the UK govt murdered a expert scientist in the case to keep him quiet. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

01-02-2004, 04:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	Well, one motivation of recusing himself is to remove one of the oft cited anti Bush "facts" that he would obviously clear himself of any wrongdoing. There are plenty of people who will always believe Bush was guilty. There are plenty who will always believe he's innocent. The remainder are important in the next election. Many of them will wait until there's a lot more information available and/or when an investigation has been concluded. This is about denying the Dems one of the sores they are constantly trying to rip open into full blown gashes to win the next election. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

01-13-2004, 04:23 AM	#16 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	Number of days between Novak column outing Valerie Plame and announcement of investigation: 74 days. Number of days between O'Neill 60 Minutes interview and announcement of investigation: 1 day. Having the administration reveal itself as a gaggle of hypocritcal goons ... priceless. (thanks Josh Marshall) 2Wolves __________________ Nation of the Cat. Forgive maybe, forget .... not quite yet.

12-30-2003, 12:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
prb Psycho	CIA v GWB /I'm laying my money down on the CIA.

12-30-2003, 01:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Bush should have taken a lesson from Nixon. It's not the act, but the cover-up that will end up getting you.

12-30-2003, 01:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	This is worthless, if found innocent, Superbelt and co will just say it was the "Bush cronies that cleared him". Superbelt declared him guilty so thats all that matters.

12-30-2003, 01:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	Would it be possible, for one thread, to drop the knee jerk reaction sydrome? Please. Thank you. 2Wolves