CA Recall - all is revealed! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

clavus · 08-15-2003, 10:43 AM

Look, I’m sorry the power is off back east, but I’m sick of hearing about it. As far as the news is concerned, the ONLY thing happening on the entire planet is BLACKOUT ’03 <<*cue music - Scorpions Blackout*>>.

Well, for your information, there is one other newsworthy event happening – it’s the RECALL ’03 <<*cue music - Total Recall Theme*>> in CA. I’d like to go on the record right now and tell you how its going to play out. That’s right, your heard it here FIRST –

Governor Asshat will allow the state to spend bazillions of dollars printing massive ballots and preparing for the election. His numbers will continue to decline to the point of oblivion. He will sign a bunch of expensive, special-interest legislation into law in a desperate attempt to get SOMEONE to like him.

At the 11th hour, Governor Asshat and his fellow Democrats will realize that they are about to lose the election, and Gov. Asshat will resign. Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante will assume the Governorship and the recall will be cancelled. The state will have wasted a ton of money for nothing. The candidates will have wasted even more money. The GOP will be pissed. The voters will be alienated. And the state will continue to be driven into the ground by a bunch of insipid, bribe-monkeys (GOP and Dem alike)

The only real change we’ll see – The new Governor will try to explain away his malfeasance in Spanish

2wolves · 08-15-2003, 11:09 AM

I'm sorry but you're ignorant of California law on this issue. If Davis resigns the recall election goes forward regardless, Buster does not get to be guv, and so it goes.

2Wolves

Halx · 08-15-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2wolves
I'm sorry but you're ignorant of California law on this issue. If Davis resigns the recall election goes forward regardless, Buster does not get to be guv, and so it goes.

2Wolves

clavus
Location: NorCal

2wolves
Location: Just outside the D.C. belt

hmmm

By the way, there are better ways to say "you're ignorant" - are you ignorant of them?
(subtle nudge)

The_Dude · 08-15-2003, 11:19 AM

lol @ halx.

--------

if it did go forward, it would be nixon all over again

Fallon · 08-15-2003, 11:32 AM

This recall thing has been going on for more then a day, unlike the power outage. I'm sick of hearing about this recall. I'm also sick of hearing about this power outage, but I can't get away from either though.

clavus · 08-15-2003, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
By the way, there are better ways to say "you're ignorant" - are you ignorant of them?
(subtle nudge)

Thanks Halx, but I take no offense. It could be that I'm wrong. It happened once before.

I get my news from several sources, including the local publications, NPR, Pravda, and a host of on-line sources. If 2wolves has source for his conflicting info, I'd love to see it.

The_Dude · 08-15-2003, 12:31 PM

hmmm....

here is an article i read

Quote:

WASHINGTON -- Prominent California Democrats are pressing to get Gov. Gray Davis to resign rather than face a recall that may replace him with a Republican governor in a special October election.

Oakland Mayor (and former California governor) Jerry Brown, in Washington this past week, speculated that Davis could instantly destroy the recall movement by resigning. That would elevate Democratic Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante to the governorship. Sen. Barbara Boxer has sketched the same scenario in private conversations with fellow Democrats.

These Democrats express skepticism that Gray would voluntarily surrender the prize that he sought his entire political life. Nevertheless, he could derail the recall at any time prior to the actual balloting by just quitting.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/r...20030621.shtml

and more

Quote:

Instead of letting the recall vote go forward and run the risk of a Republican taking the governor’s office away from him shortly before the 2004 presidential election season, Davis should resign.

In doing so, he would block the GOP’s coup d’etat.

With Davis out of office, a vote wouldn’t be needed to recall him.

“The lieutenant governor shall become governor when a vacancy occurs in the office of governor,” according to Article V of California’s constitution. So if Davis resigns, Bustamante would become the state’s chief executive.

Such a turn of events would have positive ripple effects for Democrats in California.

By maintaining control of the governor’s office during the 2004 campaign, Democrats would be in a better position to deliver California to their party’s White House candidate — a victory that is a must for the Democrat who takes on President Bush next year. Given the nation’s current political landscape, if Bush manages to win California, he would be all but guaranteed four more years in the Oval Office.

In resigning, Davis would not only foil the GOP’s plot to wrest the governorship from Democrats, he would make way for Bustamante, a Hispanic, to become California’s chief executive.

As governor, Bustamante would be in a better position to help his party fend off Republican efforts to make inroads among Hispanic voters, a majority of whom cast their ballots for Al Gore in the 2000 presidential election.

http://www.wisinfo.com/thereporter/n...11664098.shtml

clavus, i think you are right on this occassion.

2wolves · 08-15-2003, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
clavus
Location: NorCal

2wolves
Location: Just outside the D.C. belt

hmmm

By the way, there are better ways to say "you're ignorant" - are you ignorant of them?
(subtle nudge)

Ignorance is curable and is not an insult unless used in an intentionally ignorant fashion. Everyone has a level of ignorance on many subjects and if they're not able to admit that it then delves into stupidity which is a terminal condition.

Q: What happens if Gray Davis resigns?

A: Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante would take over as governor and serve until the recall election. If voters oust Davis, the replacement governor would take over. What would happen if voters decided not to oust Davis and he had already resigned is still under review at the secretary of state's office.

Q: If I vote to keep Davis as governor, can I still vote in the replacement election?

A: Yes. Everyone who votes in the recall side of the two-part ballot can vote for a candidate to replace Davis, regardless of whether they supported the recall.

Q: If I don't vote in the recall half of the ballot, can I still vote on a replacement?

A: Yes. It works that way, too, thanks to a recent court decision.

Q: If Davis is recalled, when could a recall effort start against the new governor?

A: That's unclear. The secretary of state's office is looking into the question.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...1/MN216655.DTL

Just because I live outside of D.C. doesn't mean I can't use google. Ok?

2Wolves

clavus · 08-15-2003, 01:29 PM

*clavus sits back and sips his large, steaming mug of well-earned mug of STFU*

2wolves · 08-15-2003, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clavus
*clavus sits back and sips his large, steaming mug of well-earned mug of STFU*

I beg your pardon? Didn't you say that " At the 11th hour, Governor Asshat and his fellow Democrats will realize that they are about to lose the election, and Gov. Asshat will resign. Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante will assume the Governorship and the recall will be cancelled. The state will have wasted a ton of money for nothing. The candidates will have wasted even more money. The GOP will be pissed. The voters will be alienated. And the state will continue to be driven into the ground by a bunch of insipid, bribe-monkeys (GOP and Dem alike)

The only real change we’ll see – The new Governor will try to explain away his malfeasance in Spanish"

There is no way the recall can be legally halted. Bustamante can not hold office after the recall is certified even if Davis resigns.

Am I missing some point in your post that would justify a 'STFU?'

Please, educate me.

2Wolves

smooth · 08-15-2003, 02:09 PM

"This certainly is one of those legal issues that is far from crystal clear," Carbaugh said.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs...es/000371.html

Read it yourselves because it has important hypertext.

2wolves · 08-15-2003, 02:16 PM

http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elect...ecall_faqs.htm

"When would a new Governor take office?
It can take up to 28 days for county elections officials to complete the official canvass. Once the results are official, then the Secretary of State will certify the election and the new Governor would take the oath of office and assume the position. "

http://recallwatch.lobbyingcentral.com/faqs.php#2-4

"# Why doesn't Gray Davis just resign?
State law provides that a vacancy created in the office after a recall petition has been filed does not stop the recall election. Instead, the election will be held and the subject of the recall would still be listed in Question 1 of the ballot. (Elections Code sec. 11302)"

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....20030813c.html

"Election law experts agree that even if Davis does resign, the second ballot question (who should replace Davis) would remain binding. They also agree that Bustamante would temporarily become governor if Davis resigns."

The Elections Code of California section 11302 is rather clear.

2Wolves

2wolves · 08-15-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smooth
"This certainly is one of those legal issues that is far from crystal clear," Carbaugh said.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs...es/000371.html

Read it yourselves because it has important hypertext.

The California Secretary of State differs. See the first link I provided in the previous post. It's interesting that the news & blog guys say the Election laws were wiped while others claim they still stand. As a matter of public record this should be easily acsertained.

2Wolves

smooth · 08-15-2003, 02:29 PM

Well, I wasn't going to get into this because I thought people from both sides of this semantic debate would benefit from educating themselves. So here it is anyway because I suspect you didn't read through the page I referenced:

If you are ever blessed enough to move into our great state then I'll listen to your opinion regarding the clarity of our fucking laws.

clavus · 08-15-2003, 04:38 PM

Hey, 2wolves, let me be a little more clear -

I was sipping a big mug of STFU, because it apeared that I was wrong, and you were right. Hence, I was Shutting The Fuck Up.

I was not serving YOU the this bitter potion, for you did not earn it. Sheesh!

Since you are not a member of our tribe, it may be difficult for you to understand that ANYTHING is possible in Calfornia. What you consider solid earth beneath your feet, we consider a precarious stone that may lurch sideways at any moment.

You make good arguments, and you are probably right in your conclusion. But just because the Sec. State says something, does not make it an immutable dictum. We've got wacky courts and more attorneys than DC has cockroaches.

Anything is possible with our government. The more outlandish and self-serving an act is, the more likely it will come to pass.

2wolves · 08-15-2003, 05:33 PM

The only time I spent in the Golden State was at a base outside of 'Diego where folks wore alot of green and I was busy trying to run a platoon.

It's not unusual for mis-communication to occur on boards like TFP so I try to tread lightly. Lightly for me at least. I did not mean to offend but to explore an issue which has a whole bunch o' people on a cusp.

We live in interesting times.

2Wolves

smooth · 08-15-2003, 05:54 PM

Sounds like you were at Camp Pendleton.

newayz, don't know what crawled up my ass

Is everyone having a nice day now? =)

08-15-2003, 10:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	CA Recall - all is revealed! Look, I’m sorry the power is off back east, but I’m sick of hearing about it. As far as the news is concerned, the ONLY thing happening on the entire planet is BLACKOUT ’03 <<cue music - Scorpions Blackout>>. Well, for your information, there is one other newsworthy event happening – it’s the RECALL ’03 <<cue music - Total Recall Theme>> in CA. I’d like to go on the record right now and tell you how its going to play out. That’s right, your heard it here FIRST – Governor Asshat will allow the state to spend bazillions of dollars printing massive ballots and preparing for the election. His numbers will continue to decline to the point of oblivion. He will sign a bunch of expensive, special-interest legislation into law in a desperate attempt to get SOMEONE to like him. At the 11th hour, Governor Asshat and his fellow Democrats will realize that they are about to lose the election, and Gov. Asshat will resign. Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante will assume the Governorship and the recall will be cancelled. The state will have wasted a ton of money for nothing. The candidates will have wasted even more money. The GOP will be pissed. The voters will be alienated. And the state will continue to be driven into the ground by a bunch of insipid, bribe-monkeys (GOP and Dem alike) The only real change we’ll see – The new Governor will try to explain away his malfeasance in Spanish __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

08-15-2003, 11:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	lol @ halx. -------- if it did go forward, it would be nixon all over again __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-15-2003, 01:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	clavus sits back and sips his large, steaming mug of well-earned mug of STFU __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

08-15-2003, 02:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	"This certainly is one of those legal issues that is far from crystal clear," Carbaugh said. http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs...es/000371.html Read it yourselves because it has important hypertext. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

08-15-2003, 02:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	Well, I wasn't going to get into this because I thought people from both sides of this semantic debate would benefit from educating themselves. So here it is anyway because I suspect you didn't read through the page I referenced: If you are ever blessed enough to move into our great state then I'll listen to your opinion regarding the clarity of our fucking laws. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

08-15-2003, 11:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	I'm sorry but you're ignorant of California law on this issue. If Davis resigns the recall election goes forward regardless, Buster does not get to be guv, and so it goes. 2Wolves

08-15-2003, 11:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
Fallon Junkie Location: RI	This recall thing has been going on for more then a day, unlike the power outage. I'm sick of hearing about this recall. I'm also sick of hearing about this power outage, but I can't get away from either though.

08-15-2003, 02:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elect...ecall_faqs.htm "When would a new Governor take office? It can take up to 28 days for county elections officials to complete the official canvass. Once the results are official, then the Secretary of State will certify the election and the new Governor would take the oath of office and assume the position. " http://recallwatch.lobbyingcentral.com/faqs.php#2-4 "# Why doesn't Gray Davis just resign? State law provides that a vacancy created in the office after a recall petition has been filed does not stop the recall election. Instead, the election will be held and the subject of the recall would still be listed in Question 1 of the ballot. (Elections Code sec. 11302)" http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....20030813c.html "Election law experts agree that even if Davis does resign, the second ballot question (who should replace Davis) would remain binding. They also agree that Bustamante would temporarily become governor if Davis resigns." The Elections Code of California section 11302 is rather clear. 2Wolves

08-15-2003, 04:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	Hey, 2wolves, let me be a little more clear - I was sipping a big mug of STFU, because it apeared that I was wrong, and you were right. Hence, I was Shutting The Fuck Up. I was not serving YOU the this bitter potion, for you did not earn it. Sheesh! Since you are not a member of our tribe, it may be difficult for you to understand that ANYTHING is possible in Calfornia. What you consider solid earth beneath your feet, we consider a precarious stone that may lurch sideways at any moment. You make good arguments, and you are probably right in your conclusion. But just because the Sec. State says something, does not make it an immutable dictum. We've got wacky courts and more attorneys than DC has cockroaches. Anything is possible with our government. The more outlandish and self-serving an act is, the more likely it will come to pass. __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free. Last edited by clavus; 08-15-2003 at 04:49 PM..

08-15-2003, 05:33 PM	#16 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	The only time I spent in the Golden State was at a base outside of 'Diego where folks wore alot of green and I was busy trying to run a platoon. It's not unusual for mis-communication to occur on boards like TFP so I try to tread lightly. Lightly for me at least. I did not mean to offend but to explore an issue which has a whole bunch o' people on a cusp. We live in interesting times. 2Wolves

08-15-2003, 05:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	Sounds like you were at Camp Pendleton. newayz, don't know what crawled up my ass Is everyone having a nice day now? =) __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman