How unemployed are we, really? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Shauk · 06-07-2009, 09:39 PM

Most nations use what is referred to as a U-6 standard. America used to follow this standard. in 1982, we changed our reporting to a U-3 standard.

Generally speaking, the unemployment rate is measured by measuring the total "labor force" (able-bodied persons over the age of 18 and under the age of 65), then dividing this number by the total number of "unemployed persons" (people within the category of "labor force" who are not employed in any way).

however, bureaucrats and statisticians being who they are, they feel the need to monkey with this system.

Jobless rates are measured globally by U1 through U6 standardization.

U-1 Persons unemployed 15 weeks or longer, as a percent of the civilian labor force

U-2 Job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs, as a percent of the civilian labor force

U-3 Total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force (official unemployment rate)

U-4 Total unemployed plus discouraged workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus discouraged workers

U-5 Total unemployed, plus discouraged workers, plus all other marginally attached workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers

U-6 Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers

Unemployment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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most of the rest of the civilized world uses a U-6 standard for reporting the unemployment rate.

the USA still measures U-6 data, it just tends to downplay the reporting.

U-6 measures people who work for Labor Ready and are "technically" employed .. but they have to go stand in line for an actual job and an actual paycheck on Monday, and if they don't get a job they don't get a paycheck .. U-6 measures these people as "unemployed". the USA does not count these people who sometimes go for 3, 4, 5, 6 weeks without working but technically in the Labor Ready payroll system ... as "not unemployed"

U-6 measures people who's UI benefits have run out but are still out of work, as unemployed. the USA standard for reporting, lists these people ... as "not unemployed".

according to U-6 standardization, the "actual" unemployment rate in the USA (total able bodied adults out of work, regardless of whether or not they're currently collecting UI benefits - plus all people who have a job but its got shitty pay and/or its got shitty hours and they used to earn considerably more money and their bills are way more than their paycheck) ....... is 16.4%

16.4% of Americans are currently out of work.

Table A-12. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

<-- 3 months on the search, and counting.

pan6467 · 06-07-2009, 11:47 PM

I know in Ohio, which is a "right to work" state, getting unemployment is very difficult unless you are union or laid off and the company doesn't fight it. In Ohio a company can fire you for any reason and at any time and then fight your claim. Very few have the time and resources to fight long.

If we go by the U6 and add on those at less than $15 an hour I have a feeling we'd see numbers in a very high 50 percentile.

I know I make 11.20 an hour and by the time taxes (fed, FICA, Ohio, city, and whatever else), insurance and child support (and I pay less than most) comes out, even at full time, there would be no way in Hell I could make a living by myself. The cheapest apartments run at minimum $300 a month and those are in crack neighborhoods where gunshots are 24/7 (my job is in one of those).

You add student loans on to that (thankfully mine are in deferment while the interest builds), I'd be a resident at a homeless shelter.

I have always maintained that you develop a better workforce and national pride and solvency if you pay workers a livable wage. NOONE working 40 hours a week should live in poverty. This country right now has such a class gap that if actual statistics were done and people were honest, I have a feeling we'd be very close to the bottom in industrialized nations in true wealth. It's owned by a very few in this country and the Middle Class is having the plug pulled and last rites given.

ASU2003 · 06-08-2009, 07:59 AM

Employment Situation Summary

There are the 'official' numbers for reference.

We have 155 million in the labor force in this country they say (up 1 million from March). But, employment tracking is difficult. Do you count the retired people as un-employed? What is they work a few hours at a 'fun' job to keep themselves busy? Do stay-at-home parents count as un-employed, what if they are starting their own small business? How about drug dealers, escorts/prostitutes, and other 'under-the table' jobs? How about illegal immigrants, are their numbers showing up? What about people who don't want to work? Maybe they won the lottery, sold their successful business, or just live a simple life and don't need to buy much.

I'm not sure I was counted as un-employed for the 11 months I wasn't working after college, even though I should have been. But, if you count everyone, it would be 155 mil/305 mil = 50.8% unemployed (kids, elderly included)

There needs to be more choices besides just employed and unemployed. Maybe we should add, under-employed, temporary-employed, non-employed (for those that don't need or want to work), retired-employed, and black-market-employed.

06-07-2009, 09:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	How unemployed are we, really? Most nations use what is referred to as a U-6 standard. America used to follow this standard. in 1982, we changed our reporting to a U-3 standard. Generally speaking, the unemployment rate is measured by measuring the total "labor force" (able-bodied persons over the age of 18 and under the age of 65), then dividing this number by the total number of "unemployed persons" (people within the category of "labor force" who are not employed in any way). however, bureaucrats and statisticians being who they are, they feel the need to monkey with this system. Jobless rates are measured globally by U1 through U6 standardization. U-1 Persons unemployed 15 weeks or longer, as a percent of the civilian labor force U-2 Job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs, as a percent of the civilian labor force U-3 Total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force (official unemployment rate) U-4 Total unemployed plus discouraged workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus discouraged workers U-5 Total unemployed, plus discouraged workers, plus all other marginally attached workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers U-6 Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers Unemployment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia *** most of the rest of the civilized world uses a U-6 standard for reporting the unemployment rate. the USA still measures U-6 data, it just tends to downplay the reporting. U-6 measures people who work for Labor Ready and are "technically" employed .. but they have to go stand in line for an actual job and an actual paycheck on Monday, and if they don't get a job they don't get a paycheck .. U-6 measures these people as "unemployed". the USA does not count these people who sometimes go for 3, 4, 5, 6 weeks without working but technically in the Labor Ready payroll system ... as "not unemployed" U-6 measures people who's UI benefits have run out but are still out of work, as unemployed. the USA standard for reporting, lists these people ... as "not unemployed". according to U-6 standardization, the "actual" unemployment rate in the USA (total able bodied adults out of work, regardless of whether or not they're currently collecting UI benefits - plus all people who have a job but its got shitty pay and/or its got shitty hours and they used to earn considerably more money and their bills are way more than their paycheck) ....... is 16.4% 16.4% of Americans are currently out of work. Table A-12. Alternative measures of labor underutilization <-- 3 months on the search, and counting.

06-07-2009, 11:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I know in Ohio, which is a "right to work" state, getting unemployment is very difficult unless you are union or laid off and the company doesn't fight it. In Ohio a company can fire you for any reason and at any time and then fight your claim. Very few have the time and resources to fight long. If we go by the U6 and add on those at less than $15 an hour I have a feeling we'd see numbers in a very high 50 percentile. I know I make 11.20 an hour and by the time taxes (fed, FICA, Ohio, city, and whatever else), insurance and child support (and I pay less than most) comes out, even at full time, there would be no way in Hell I could make a living by myself. The cheapest apartments run at minimum $300 a month and those are in crack neighborhoods where gunshots are 24/7 (my job is in one of those). You add student loans on to that (thankfully mine are in deferment while the interest builds), I'd be a resident at a homeless shelter. I have always maintained that you develop a better workforce and national pride and solvency if you pay workers a livable wage. NOONE working 40 hours a week should live in poverty. This country right now has such a class gap that if actual statistics were done and people were honest, I have a feeling we'd be very close to the bottom in industrialized nations in true wealth. It's owned by a very few in this country and the Middle Class is having the plug pulled and last rites given. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

06-08-2009, 07:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	Employment Situation Summary There are the 'official' numbers for reference. We have 155 million in the labor force in this country they say (up 1 million from March). But, employment tracking is difficult. Do you count the retired people as un-employed? What is they work a few hours at a 'fun' job to keep themselves busy? Do stay-at-home parents count as un-employed, what if they are starting their own small business? How about drug dealers, escorts/prostitutes, and other 'under-the table' jobs? How about illegal immigrants, are their numbers showing up? What about people who don't want to work? Maybe they won the lottery, sold their successful business, or just live a simple life and don't need to buy much. I'm not sure I was counted as un-employed for the 11 months I wasn't working after college, even though I should have been. But, if you count everyone, it would be 155 mil/305 mil = 50.8% unemployed (kids, elderly included) There needs to be more choices besides just employed and unemployed. Maybe we should add, under-employed, temporary-employed, non-employed (for those that don't need or want to work), retired-employed, and black-market-employed.