Strange Famous

Im thinking... Ive never seen anyone go from popular to so unpopular so quickly... we expected dour, we expected seriousness, but did anyone expect that the "Iron Chancellor" would be so indecisive and weak?

If Brown was grumpy, unhappy, but solid and strong - I think people would have followed him, but he seems lost. Paul Merton said on "have I got news for you" a few weeks ago, its a great tragedy that this guy wanted a certain job for 10 years and worked constantly to get it, and now he is realising he cant do it.

If Labour lose Crewe to the Tories -an unthinkable defeat even when B Liar was at his most unpopular with the war in Iraq and the murder of Dr Kelly - is this the tipping point?

We are starting to hear, in private, Labour party members and even MP's saying that they've had a good innings, that Cameron wouldnt be that bad a PM... but if Labour are going to change tack they need to do it now and switch to Milliband pretty quickly.

The 10% fiasco, even with the one off fix for this fiscal year, has pushed so many people away from Labour. I half think that they NEED to be thrown out as a punishment for that, to refocus the party genuinely on who they are. I know there is a one off fix for this year (which is borrowed money), but it just makes me SICK that it was a Labour govt who last month took £10 extra of the wages of the receptionist at my company, and gave it to the CEO.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

allaboutmusic

The 10% tax affair is so fatally stupid that I can't believe it even got as far as being a subject of discussion. The response to an idea like that is "Hahahaha, nice one man. While we're at it, we should tax people for moving!!" Seriously, who thought that would be a good idea?!

Daniel_

They do tax you for moving - it's called "stamp duty" and it's a percentage on the purchase price of new residential properties.

As Thatcher proved many times, it doesn't matter how bad YOU are, it matters how much better or worse you are than the oponent.

The question is not whether Brown should fight, the question is whether Cameron is able to win.

Right now, I still think the Conservatives are not riding high enough to win a general election.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Willravel

SF who would you like to replace Brown? I'm honestly curious.

The Nightfly

I think there's absolutely no chance of Milliband standing for Labour at the next general election. Has anything like that ever happened in UK politics?

I feel like politics here are in such a bad state. It's just choosing between who you dislike the least... which for me would be Labour.

Daniel_

In your borough NF, there's at least a chance of a labour victor (depending on how far along the coast you live).

I live in the solid blue bit slightly further to the west, so I could vote for anyone and the Conservatives will get in.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

allaboutmusic

I should have been more specific... I meant moving parts of your body!

I don't own a home so I've been fortunate not to have been hit by stamp duty yet. Of course, with the way house prices are, it will be a while before I am able to consider owning one...

tisonlyi

IMHO, it'll end up a hung parliament after the next election... hopefully the libdems will force through PR and we can have labour and the tories split into their moderate and extreme wings... then we can build adhoc coalitions that at least represent a majority of people at any one time...

Hey, I can dream.

The thought of that bunch of old etonians, completely disconnected from the reality of anyone earning less than 1/4m quids getting into power is almost too horrific to consider.

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

The Nightfly

Right okay I've changed my mind. Labour are going to lose the next election and we'll end up with a Conservative government.

I've seen on BBC news that one Labour MP has already asked for somebody to contest Brown in the next election due to the by-election defeat. Strange Famous, you think Milliband might go for it?

tisonlyi

He who is seen to be wielding the knife (in public or private) will never ascend the throne.

Ask Heseltine.

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

Strange Famous

Brown was supposed to be a conviction politician... yet he plays the media game as much as Blair and isnt any good at it.

He was the iron chancellor, accused of Stalinism in his manner at least, and now he looks weak, indecisive, and shaken.

I dont think he will be replaced before the next election simply because people see a defeat coming, and the strongest candidates are going to want Brown to take it so they can pick up the pieces.

Milliband impresses me as relatively bright, personable, quite honest - but I dont know what he believes in.

I like Hillary Benn, although more because of who is father is than anything else to be honest (I still have some replies to letters I sent that Tony Benn sent me when I was a student)

I admire Jack Straw as a man, but he is too right wing for me to support.

There really are not many big beasts left in the Labour party now... I dont know who can lead the recovery of the party and its reconciliation with the working class. If I had to pick someone, and not many people would support it, I would say Ken.

He has an akward style, and certainly gets up some people's noses, but I think he did a pretty good job as London mayor, he is not afraid to upset people to do what he thinks is right, he is certainly not a boring "on message" type of person who reads from the party script. People might question his experience, but running one of the biggest and best cities in the world for 8 years is as good a grounding as anyone else can get... its rather more than Dave Cameron will have.

So, Ken Livingstone would be my Labour candidate (except of course he isnt even an MP yet... and probably wont ever be one, so he'd have to be parachuted into a safe seat in this scenario), deputy leader Alan Johnson (a decent, honest and free speaking minister who admire a lot)

EDIT - I meant he wont ever be an MP AGAIN

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Daniel_

I'd love to see Red Ken in charge, with Hillary Benn as his right hand in one of the great offices of state.

A Labour government would make a nice change.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝