Teacher burns a flag - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Seer666 · 08-31-2006, 10:58 AM

Heh. I can't say I'm a fan of flag burning but I see why he did, and I think it was a good way to really drive home the point. It's not the act itself that bugs me, its the disrespect behind it. His actions were not out of disrespect, as it's been laid out. I would have liked to have had a teacher like that when I was in high school. Maybe I wouldn't have dropped out.

Bill O'Rights · 08-31-2006, 12:23 PM

Question...

If...the American flag is just a piece of cloth, as some have pointed out...

and

If...I should set aside any symbology behind that piece of cloth...

and

If...the burning of said piece of cloth is simply a matter of free speech...

and

If...I should not take offense at the burning of this piece of cloth...

then...

Why is it so wrong to fly the battle flag of the Confederate States of America? Why all of the hullaballu over symbols of the former CSA embeded in state flags? It's just a piece of cloth, with no real meaning attached...right?

What am I missing?

The_Jazz · 08-31-2006, 12:34 PM

BOR - I think I understand where you're going with this, so I'll offer up this - neither the burning of the flag nor the display of the Stars and Bars make any demand to set aside the symbology behind either flag. In reality both acts require that symbology be front and center. The real question (for me anyway) is exactly what symbols are being elicited by the separate acts considering that both flags have multiple meanings and implications.

Paq · 08-31-2006, 12:37 PM

it's not wrong to fly it and i'm pretty sure it is flown quite often in the southeast...

Bill O'Rights · 08-31-2006, 12:39 PM

Ahhh...so then it just becomes a matter of who is being offended...by what symbology is offered?

Willravel · 08-31-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Question...

If...the American flag is just a piece of cloth, as some have pointed out...

and

If...I should set aside any symbology behind that piece of cloth...

and

If...the burning of said piece of cloth is simply a matter of free speech...

and

If...I should not take offense at the burning of this piece of cloth...

then...

Why is it so wrong to fly the battle flag of the Confederate States of America? Why all of the hullaballu over symbols of the former CSA embeded in state flags? It's just a piece of cloth, with no real meaning attached...right?

What am I missing?

I disagree with the Confederate flag, but I'd die before I'd take someone's right to display it. Likewise, some people may disagree with the burning of the US flag, but getting someone fired over it isn't just lunacy, it's dangerous. Eroding freedoms are nothing to shake a stick at, and if precedents like the one in this case keep popping up, you can expect fear to win more and more over reason and freedom.

Ustwo · 08-31-2006, 12:58 PM

Was there a time period in this country where a childrens teacher would not have been fired for burning a flag as an object lesson?

I can't say this is a slippery slope at all.

The_Jazz · 08-31-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Ahhh...so then it just becomes a matter of who is being offended...by what symbology is offered?

Nope. But you can burn both of them if you want. You can also pass a law banning the display of one if you want - although it may be overruled by federal law in regards to the national flag (there are no national statutes regarding the display or lack thereof of the Confederate flag that I know of).

You're trying to equate display and destruction, and it's not going to be as easy as you hoped. They are two different symbols signifying lots of very different things to lots of people. However, as I mentioned above, you do have the right to burn both of them.

SirLance · 08-31-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

But did the teacher have to go to such dramatic lengths to teach that lesson? Couldn't the teacher have explained it without flaming one up?

Sure, but would it have been half as effective in demonstrating why some speech is controversial, which is why we have a constitutional amendment protecting speech in the first place?

Deltona Couple · 09-11-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ustwo

The teachers free speech rights have not been violated. He can burn all the flags he wants at home, wear one as a diaper, and blow his nose with one.

Actually, you are incorrect on the last two....

As stated on.... http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...0----000-.html

Quote:

§ 700 Prev | Next

§ 700. Desecration of the flag of the United States; penalties

(a)
(1) Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(2) This subsection does not prohibit any conduct consisting of the disposal of a flag when it has become worn or soiled.
(b) As used in this section, the term “flag of the United States” means any flag of the United States, or any part thereof, made of any substance, of any size, in a form that is commonly displayed.

and... http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...id=Cite:+4USC8

Quote:

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or
drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but
always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always
arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red
below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front
of the platform, and for decoration in general.

politicophile · 09-11-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltona Couple

Actually, you are incorrect on the last two....

Not really sure why this thread was brought back from the dead, but you're wrong. Here is the relevant information.

08-31-2006, 10:58 AM	#41 (permalink)
Seer666 Oh dear God he breeded Location: Arizona	Heh. I can't say I'm a fan of flag burning but I see why he did, and I think it was a good way to really drive home the point. It's not the act itself that bugs me, its the disrespect behind it. His actions were not out of disrespect, as it's been laid out. I would have liked to have had a teacher like that when I was in high school. Maybe I wouldn't have dropped out. __________________ Bad spellers of the world untie!!! I am the one you warned me of I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.

08-31-2006, 12:23 PM	#42 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Question... If...the American flag is just a piece of cloth, as some have pointed out... and If...I should set aside any symbology behind that piece of cloth... and If...the burning of said piece of cloth is simply a matter of free speech... and If...I should not take offense at the burning of this piece of cloth... then... Why is it so wrong to fly the battle flag of the Confederate States of America? Why all of the hullaballu over symbols of the former CSA embeded in state flags? It's just a piece of cloth, with no real meaning attached...right? What am I missing? __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

08-31-2006, 12:34 PM	#43 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	BOR - I think I understand where you're going with this, so I'll offer up this - neither the burning of the flag nor the display of the Stars and Bars make any demand to set aside the symbology behind either flag. In reality both acts require that symbology be front and center. The real question (for me anyway) is exactly what symbols are being elicited by the separate acts considering that both flags have multiple meanings and implications. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

08-31-2006, 12:37 PM	#44 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	it's not wrong to fly it and i'm pretty sure it is flown quite often in the southeast... __________________ Live. Chris

08-31-2006, 12:39 PM	#45 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Ahhh...so then it just becomes a matter of who is being offended...by what symbology is offered? __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

08-31-2006, 12:58 PM	#47 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Was there a time period in this country where a childrens teacher would not have been fired for burning a flag as an object lesson? I can't say this is a slippery slope at all. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.