It's because they're BETTER than the rest of us - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Marvelous Marv · 05-24-2006, 11:47 PM

(With apologies to Clavus, since he posted a cartoon before I posted this)

Link: All over the web

Quote:

FBI Raid Unites Party Leaders on Capitol Hill
Hastert Demands Return of Documents From Agency
By LAURIE KELLMAN, AP

WASHINGTON (May 24) - House leaders of both parties stood in rare election-year unanimity Wednesday demanding the FBI surrender documents it took and remove agents involved in the weekend raid of a congressman's office.

"The Justice Department must immediately return the papers it unconstitutionally seized," House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi said in a statement.

The leaders said that the congressman, William Jefferson, a Louisiana Democrat, should then cooperate with the investigation.

Earlier, Hastert had said any FBI agents involved "ought to be frozen out of that (case) just for the sake of the constitutional aspects of it."

Both parties have protested the Saturday night search of Jefferson's office on Capitol Hill, which they said violated the Constitution's separation of powers doctrine.

FBI agents searched Jefferson's office in pursuit of evidence in a bribery investigation. The search warrant, signed by U.S. District Court Judge Thomas Hogan, was based on an affidavit that said agents found $90,000 in cash stashed in the freezer of Jefferson's home.

White House officials said they did not learn of the search until after it happened. They pledged to work with the Justice Department to soothe lawmakers.

Democrats, meanwhile, tried to get Jefferson to resign his seat on the House's most prestigious panel.

"In the interest of upholding the high ethical standard of the House Democratic Caucus, I am writing to request your immediate resignation from the Ways and Means Committee," wrote Pelosi.

Jefferson was defiant.

"With respect, I decline to do so," he wrote back to Pelosi. "I will not give up a committee assignment that is so vital to New Orleans at this crucial time for any uncertain, long-term political strategy."

Jefferson, meanwhile, filed a motion asking the judge to order the FBI to return all of the documents taken from his office during the 15-hour search.

Jefferson's motion said the search violated "speech and debate" protections in the Constitution to ensure the independence of lawmakers.

Presidential administrations and Congress have routinely subpoenaed information from each other, and often they have refused to give up the materials sought.

This is the first time the branch seeking the information dispatched its law enforcement arm to wrest materials from the office of a sitting congressman who is the target of a probe.

Most members of the leadership of both houses objected to the search because they said it violated the Constitution.

"The institution has a right to protect itself against the executive department going into our offices and violating what is the (Constitution's) speech and debate clause, which essentially says, `That's none of your business, executive department,'" said House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland.

Republicans were being careful to protest the raid without defending Jefferson.

Some House officials are predicting the case will bring all three branches together at the Supreme Court for a constitutional showdown. Historians say it was the first raid of a representative's quarters in Congress' 219 years.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales tried to strike a conciliatory tone, saying, "We have a great deal of respect for the Congress as a coequal branch of government." But he also defended the search: "We have an obligation to the American people to pursue the evidence where it exists."

Justice Department officials said the decision to search Jefferson's office was made in part because he refused to comply with a subpoena for documents last summer. Jefferson reported the subpoena to the House on Sept. 15, 2005.

Associated Press writers David Espo and Mark Sherman contributed to this report.

5/24/2006 16:33:37

I don't care what party affiliation he has. They searched Duke Cunningham's house, and they were absolutely right to search Jefferson's. Has he given a reason for the $90,000 in his freezer?

Please contact Hastert, Pelosi, and your representatives, and ask them why the hell they should be immune to searches (aka above the law).

Then maybe we could go to work on the moribund Ethics Committee.

Poppinjay · 05-25-2006, 04:24 AM

The sticky point is that they raided his congressional office, not his home. The argument is that it sets very bad precedent for the nation's police branch to be able to invade the nation's congress. There's a bit of sense in that, though most of the complaints from Pelosi and Hastert are little more than histrionics.

The_Jazz · 05-25-2006, 04:38 AM

I agree - a congressman's office is sacrosanct to the executive branch. This is a very big deal. I don't think that anyone is arguing that the raid on Jefferson's home was inappropriate, but having the FBI in a congressional office building is very, very troubling. Personally, I think that the FBI was absolutely wrong in raiding the office without at the very least consulting with the leadership of both parties prior to the event. The fact that they took documents out of the building really gets my dander up about the separation of powers. Personally, I hope that the judge hands the FBI its collective ass on this one.

The_Dunedan · 05-25-2006, 04:58 AM

1: The FBI needs to back the fuck off. These "Fan Belt Inspectors" have been running roughshod over the American people for the last fifty years, and it needs to stop before someone else gets killed.

2: These political bloodsuckers need to shut their stinking holes. I didn't hear any of them complaining when the FBI and BATF murdered Kenyon Ballew or Vicki Weaver, and I didn't hear a peep from this crowd as the Feds spend the last five decades subjecting ordinary people to this same variety of treatment. Congresscritters deserve whatever they get in this regard. Maybe now they know how "the little people" feel.

flstf · 05-25-2006, 07:16 AM

I almost feel sorry for this guy. He gets elected and sees that most of his fellow polititians are on the take and decides to get in on it. Not knowing any better he does it in such an open manner to get caught on video taking bribes. Congress should have some kind of training for these novices to show them how to do it properly by funneling the money through family, friends or contributors first.

As far as the separation of powers goes, this could be a problem, but only the really stupid ones will probably have a problem by taking their bribes directly out in the open in order for the FBI to get the warrant.

dksuddeth · 05-25-2006, 08:35 AM

i don't know what everyone is so upset about. we've had our constitution and the bill of rights eroded to near nothing over the last 70 years. Those in congress deserve a taste of what they've done to us 'commoners', then maybe they'll get the idea that the constitution means something (ok, i'm done laughing my ass off now)

Seaver · 05-25-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

I almost feel sorry for this guy. He gets elected and sees that most of his fellow polititians are on the take and decides to get in on it. Not knowing any better he does it in such an open manner to get caught on video taking bribes. Congress should have some kind of training for these novices to show them how to do it properly by funneling the money through family, friends or contributors first.

You feel sorry for this guy? This is the same guy who diverted National Guard units from saving other people to removing stuff from his own house. When the truck got stuck he called in a Coast Guard Helo (who were on the way to save more people) to load up the National Guard and items from the truck that were taken from the house.

When they were flying back to land they were going to stop to pick up more people, he refused to let them saying they should land, drop off the stuff, then come back.

This guy is absolute trash, while the FBI overstepped their bounds I'm glad he's getting what's coming.

dksuddeth · 05-25-2006, 09:02 AM

I believe that was sarcasm on flstf's part.

magictoy · 05-25-2006, 12:04 PM

While the FBI has more than its rightful share of blundering fools, the search was conducted after Jefferson refused to comply with a subpoena, and a search warrant, signed by a judge, had been issued.

If keeping the evidence of crimes in their offices should be enough to get our elected officials off the hook, Nixon would have completed his term.

We might even be able to let Karl Rove concentrate on work, as well.

flstf · 05-25-2006, 01:37 PM

Looks like Bush is having the evidence sealed for 45 days. Probably trying to curry favor with the House to try and get support for the Senate's illegal immigrant amnesty plan.

No way do polititians in the House want the FBI to be snooping around in their "safe area" offices. At least not until they have a chance to get rid of any incriminating evidence.

05-25-2006, 04:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	The sticky point is that they raided his congressional office, not his home. The argument is that it sets very bad precedent for the nation's police branch to be able to invade the nation's congress. There's a bit of sense in that, though most of the complaints from Pelosi and Hastert are little more than histrionics. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

05-25-2006, 04:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	I agree - a congressman's office is sacrosanct to the executive branch. This is a very big deal. I don't think that anyone is arguing that the raid on Jefferson's home was inappropriate, but having the FBI in a congressional office building is very, very troubling. Personally, I think that the FBI was absolutely wrong in raiding the office without at the very least consulting with the leadership of both parties prior to the event. The fact that they took documents out of the building really gets my dander up about the separation of powers. Personally, I hope that the judge hands the FBI its collective ass on this one. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

05-25-2006, 08:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	i don't know what everyone is so upset about. we've had our constitution and the bill of rights eroded to near nothing over the last 70 years. Those in congress deserve a taste of what they've done to us 'commoners', then maybe they'll get the idea that the constitution means something (ok, i'm done laughing my ass off now) __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

05-25-2006, 09:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	I believe that was sarcasm on flstf's part. __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

05-25-2006, 04:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	1: The FBI needs to back the fuck off. These "Fan Belt Inspectors" have been running roughshod over the American people for the last fifty years, and it needs to stop before someone else gets killed. 2: These political bloodsuckers need to shut their stinking holes. I didn't hear any of them complaining when the FBI and BATF murdered Kenyon Ballew or Vicki Weaver, and I didn't hear a peep from this crowd as the Feds spend the last five decades subjecting ordinary people to this same variety of treatment. Congresscritters deserve whatever they get in this regard. Maybe now they know how "the little people" feel.

05-25-2006, 07:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I almost feel sorry for this guy. He gets elected and sees that most of his fellow polititians are on the take and decides to get in on it. Not knowing any better he does it in such an open manner to get caught on video taking bribes. Congress should have some kind of training for these novices to show them how to do it properly by funneling the money through family, friends or contributors first. As far as the separation of powers goes, this could be a problem, but only the really stupid ones will probably have a problem by taking their bribes directly out in the open in order for the FBI to get the warrant.

05-25-2006, 12:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
magictoy Crazy	While the FBI has more than its rightful share of blundering fools, the search was conducted after Jefferson refused to comply with a subpoena, and a search warrant, signed by a judge, had been issued. If keeping the evidence of crimes in their offices should be enough to get our elected officials off the hook, Nixon would have completed his term. We might even be able to let Karl Rove concentrate on work, as well.

05-25-2006, 01:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	Looks like Bush is having the evidence sealed for 45 days. Probably trying to curry favor with the House to try and get support for the Senate's illegal immigrant amnesty plan. No way do polititians in the House want the FBI to be snooping around in their "safe area" offices. At least not until they have a chance to get rid of any incriminating evidence.