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Old 02-17-2006, 03:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
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To save myself from getting into trouble

I am leaving politics threads. I find the lies and the utter BULLSHIT from the Right pathetic. If I stay any longer I will end up in serious trouble and I respect the boards here too much.

The debates aren't debates it's the same bullshit and ignoringing the facts or trying to dismiss them as bias even when the government itself is releasing the information.

When every economist says there is trouble coming.... they BS. When pointed out that the rich get all kinds of perks they explain why it is ok for the rich to get all they can from the government but fuck the poor.

And instead of admitting there are problems and massive holes in Cheney's story their only defense = 35 years ago and what Kennedy did.

It's such fucking bullshit. My karma is clean so I just don't fucking care anymore. I'm bettering other's lives so have you're fucking greed and power.... just when you look inside for that inner warmth... LOL good luck finding it Money doesn't buy you a soul.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Last edited by pan6467; 02-17-2006 at 04:10 PM..
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Old 02-17-2006, 05:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Phil, please don't leave this forum. You offer very interesting topics for discussion which I appreciate, but you can't expect to change the minds of folks entrenched in a political belief or disbelief, as the case may be. Ustwo will never change my mind, nor will I ever change his. That is just a function of our personal convictions that share very little common ground.

I don't believe that you "don't fucking care anymore." It is obvious to me and many others that you care very much and hope to better the lives of people in what ways you can. This forum may not be worthy of the contribution you make to it, but you will always care and want to make a difference. Please count me as one who believes you have.

Pen
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Old 02-17-2006, 05:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Pen,

It's just a cooling down period perhaps. I am just tired of the same arguments, the same ignorant ignorances of proof that their tax cuts and programs for the rich don't work.

I see why Host got tired of it. Evidence and fact just do not matter to these people.

I can point out that the ASCE has shown our infrastructure as a whole is grading a D and that if the government puts money into the rebuild it would create jobs.... but they ignore it. They ignore the programs for the rich that just give millions upon millions to the rich yet blame the poor and cut their programs.

It's fucked up, it's fucking greed and not worth my time showing proof and all they can say is the same old rhetoric "tax cuts" "cut programs for the poor" yet not once do they acknowledge that the programs for the rich and those who can afford lawyers toabuse the system need stopped. So fuck it. Let them deal with the afterlife. Nice thing for some of them about claiming to be atheists is they don't care what their Karma brings them....

I close on my house next week and I truly do not need their Bullshit in my life. They want to destroy their kids futures with their greed let them.

I'm just tired of it..... they don't even want civil debate and I no longer wish to expend energy or get myself into trouble. I respect the boards here too much to allow myself to care anymore about their rhetoric, lies, falsehoods and hypocrasies on these boards.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
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Old 02-17-2006, 05:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I, of course, respect your decision and fully understand it.
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Old 02-17-2006, 05:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I also enjoyed your posts pan. You offered a different persoective on the board that I enjoyed reading. Sorry to see you go.

Last edited by Hardknock; 02-17-2006 at 05:49 PM..
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't know if I'm included in your category of "the Right", but...

I know how you feel. Completely.
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
And instead of admitting there are problems and massive holes in Cheney's story their only defense = 35 years ago and what Kennedy did.
Yes, it's a massive coverup, all right. Getting the major media's panties in a wad because they weren't informed as soon as they felt they should have been is a MUCH bigger offense than, for example, Bernard Nussbaum, Patsy Thomason, and Mack McLarty illegally looting Vincent Foster's office as per Hillary's instructions.
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Source????
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardknock
Source????


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Last edited by alpha phi; 02-17-2006 at 11:03 PM..
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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criminy...who flames a gbcw thread?

just let it go.
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 02-18-2006, 12:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv
Yes, it's a massive coverup, all right. Getting the major media's panties in a wad because they weren't informed as soon as they felt they should have been is a MUCH bigger offense than, for example, Bernard Nussbaum, Patsy Thomason, and Mack McLarty illegally looting Vincent Foster's office as per Hillary's instructions.
Perfect example, flame a leaving post..... how pathetic. This is what I can no longer take.

I was thinking about it the past few days, do you know I can't post in my journal, or anything I truly want to say on these boards anymore because I fear being attacked with it. If I talk about my gambling it comes on here and I get attacked. I talk about my dad, I get attacked, I talk about anything I get attacked by these fucks who want to change the topic.

You only show yourself as what you are by that Marv. Must really suck for you to have to live with so much hatred in your heart, Marv.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
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Old 02-18-2006, 01:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Sorry to see you go pan. I always find your posts interesting and worth the read, I hope it's just a temporary leave and that we'll see you back.
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Old 02-18-2006, 03:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm also sorry to see you take a leave of absence from politics. Whenever I get fed up with the bullshit, I just try to remember that people who bring up Chappaquidick or Vince Foster tin foil consipiracies are likely kids who are just hearing that stuff for the first time. If they aren't then they would be either deeply stupid to think these are valid arguments or deeply stupid to think anybody gives them merit.
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Old 02-18-2006, 03:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Cant say I blame you Pan....but it is unfortunate. Truth be told we have pretty much let you guys do what you will in here, primarily because we are considered Biased when we react to members in this forum. At this point I only step in here when someone reports a post....and even then try to avoid leaving a mark in the threads. There was a time when it was important to clean this forum up....and that time may come again, but as of now I dont care what you all do to each other....as long as its within the rules of the board.
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Old 02-18-2006, 05:02 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Take care pan, don't let the bastards wear you down.
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Old 02-18-2006, 05:47 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
Pen,



I see why Host got tired of it. Evidence and fact just do not matter to these people.

I can point out that the ASCE has shown our infrastructure as a whole is grading a D and that if the government puts money into the rebuild it would create jobs.... but they ignore it. They ignore the programs for the rich that just give millions upon millions to the rich yet blame the poor and cut their programs.

I think of it this way. I'm not here to convince Ustwo or Marv. I'd have a better chance of convincing you that the sky is green. They've been fully indoctrinated - brainwashed if you will - into the wrongheaded and elitist views of the neocons. And it's not even entirely their fault. They're republican and that means they have a natural tendency to support the republicans. And you and I both know that, especially in this administration, the republican leadership is VERY good at getting people to believe what they're saying, even if it's a total lie.

But, and this is what I've been saying ever since Kerry didn't do it, if we, every time, rebut their attacks, prove their statements false, and refuse to let them spread their untrue rhetoric unchallenged, perhaps others will not fall into the trap of believing the rhetoric.

I'm not here to change the minds of people like Marv who's minds will not be changed no matter how solid the evidence - I'm here to try and stop the neocons from recruiting more people who believe the lies.

And for the record Marv, I agree that the media screwed up in the Cheney shooting case. But you see we're very tired of this administration refusing to be accountable to the public for their actions. This was just the proverbial last straw. But I agree - the whitehouse press should have been reacting like this years ago when they lied and misdirected over much more important issues, such as the Iraq war, the economy, etc etc. This was an unfortunate incident to choose to start doing their jobs.

Last edited by shakran; 02-18-2006 at 05:52 AM..
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Old 02-18-2006, 05:56 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv
Yes, it's a massive coverup, all right. Getting the major media's panties in a wad because they weren't informed as soon as they felt they should have been is a MUCH bigger offense than, for example, Bernard Nussbaum, Patsy Thomason, and Mack McLarty illegally looting Vincent Foster's office as per Hillary's instructions.
I'll bet Marv doesn't even see this as a flame.

Pan's point--and he's absolutely right--is that all the right appears to have to defend themselves is the phrase "Oh yeah, well you!" In the words of Michael Palin, that's NOT an argument. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to support a proposition, not the automatic gainsaying of whatever the other person said.

I'd LOVE to see some actual argumentation around here. But as long as certain factions keep themselves safely on the "Oh yeah, well you!" card, there's zero chance of that.

I feel you, pan, I truly do.

("Oh yeah, well Bill Clinton!", "Oh yeah, well Ted Kennedy!", "Oh yeah, well Hillary Clinton!"--all just variations on the same losing argument)
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Old 02-18-2006, 06:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid
I'd LOVE to see some actual argumentation around here. But as long as certain factions keep themselves safely on the "Oh yeah, well you!" card, there's zero chance of that.

I feel you, pan, I truly do.

("Oh yeah, well Bill Clinton!", "Oh yeah, well Ted Kennedy!", "Oh yeah, well Hillary Clinton!"--all just variations on the same losing argument)
This is why I mostly stay out of politics...seriously, we've covered the same hackneyed rhetoric from both sides again and again.

Pan, I'm sad to see you go from here as you do start threads I enjoy reading. You've got a good heart.
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:00 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I pretty much avoid politics because of the very reasons already stated. Someone once posted a reply in a thread - I can't remember who it was or the topic of the thread - that people should just respond to posts with "Republican response" and "Liberal Response" and that would take a lot of steam out of many posts.

It's become so that there is absolutely no discussion in here anymore. Not that there ever really was, but it's become worse.

I understand your frustration, pan. The only thing I can say is that you're a lot more to this forum than what you post in politics so even if you choose to vacate this particular forum, you know that your input is valued everywhere else.

Hope to see you around.
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:07 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:51 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
Perfect example, flame a leaving post..... how pathetic. This is what I can no longer take.

I was thinking about it the past few days, do you know I can't post in my journal, or anything I truly want to say on these boards anymore because I fear being attacked with it. If I talk about my gambling it comes on here and I get attacked. I talk about my dad, I get attacked, I talk about anything I get attacked by these fucks who want to change the topic.

You only show yourself as what you are by that Marv. Must really suck for you to have to live with so much hatred in your heart, Marv.
Again, you did the exact same thing. You made a "leaving post" with the sole intent of insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you, and then you get mad when some of those who think different from you get angry. You rant and rave about how supposedly "the Right" won't listen to reason, how stupid they are, how they're heartless, etc. but don't want to back up any of your claims. Now who's the hypocrite?

edit-After reading more of the replies after this, it shows me why I've taken a more backseat approach to posting here. You see all the liberal handwringing "oh, why won't they just listen! We're so smart, we know everything, it's obvious they are wrong! Oh, woe is us!" Well, it might come as a shock, but you liberals are just as "brainwashed" as everyone else. You are just as blind to truth, unless it fits into your world view. And then some of you have the nerve to accuse others of being elitists? It's the total blindness to your own faults that I find sickening. You would think people that supposedly make so much out of being openminded wouldn't be such closeminded, elitist pricks themselves. Because all you are is a mirror image of the conservatives you take every opportunity to try to put yourselves above.

Also, when I decided to "quit", I didn't make a post about it. I didn't need a "bash liberals" party on my way out, but apparently the left needs to constantly reinforce their superiority and enlightened status.

Last edited by alansmithee; 02-18-2006 at 08:02 AM..
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Old 02-18-2006, 08:05 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Thanks all.

I had to laugh at that Astro because it is so true.

Politico, no, you have always been very respectful, I enjoyed our debates. The people who I am talking about look at this as a victory and not at themselves as the source.

Politics is a bloodsport, I accept that. What I cannot accept is the attacks on my past, on what I talk about in my journal, or in other threads. If I continue I will lower myself to their standards of personal attacks and meaningless hatred that offers no solutions.

Like I said, it has gotten to the point, I truly can't post in my journal, or anything I truly want to talk about anymore for fear they'll use it as an attack. And that is sad, when I have gotten myself to a point where I can't communictae out of fear. That's not what this community is about, but it is turning into it. There are those who hijack threads (as Marv tried to here) that only care about spewing enough hatred and trying to personally attack that it just isn't fun anymore.

Look at the great posters that have pretty much gone from politics.... Superbelt, Host, Stare at the Sun, Tec, and so on. When I came here we would get heated but noone attacked what you wrote on other threads or in your journals. Now it appears the Right cannot debate and must attack and wear down people enough so that they feel "they won the boards" meanwhile, people are just fed up with their bullshit tactics of personal attacks, flames and hatred.

It's pathetic actually, but it has become the norm with the Limbaughs and the O'Reillys and the Coulters and so on. Quite sad really when you think about it. A lot of people (probably the majority) that claim to be "conservative" have no idea what it truly means. They listen to those peole listed above and believe that is how one argues politics. They are "true bandwagonners" hitching a ride on the side they think is winning.

Which is truly the opposite, because if you have to attack personally, bully, threaten and get someone to the point they can no longer enjoy ANY of the threads in here..... you have not won shit. In fact you have lost because what you are doing is showing you cannot debate the facts presented.

What's so sad is there were people I deeply respected on the other side who have given into the "hate" politics and would rather personally attack, avoid true debate and ignore the facts.

There comes a time when you either work to compromise or you fight till hate takes over your very soul and even you can no longer respect yourself. I see some I respected getting there and I knew it was a matter of time before I got there, I won't allow myself to get there.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
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Old 02-18-2006, 08:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmithee
Again, you did the exact same thing. You made a "leaving post" with the sole intent of insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you, and then you get mad when some of those who think different from you get angry. You rant and rave about how supposedly "the Right" won't listen to reason, how stupid they are, how they're heartless, etc. but don't want to back up any of your claims. Now who's the hypocrite?

edit-After reading more of the replies after this, it shows me why I've taken a more backseat approach to posting here. You see all the liberal handwringing "oh, why won't they just listen! We're so smart, we know everything, it's obvious they are wrong! Oh, woe is us!" Well, it might come as a shock, but you liberals are just as "brainwashed" as everyone else. You are just as blind to truth, unless it fits into your world view. And then some of you have the nerve to accuse others of being elitists? It's the total blindness to your own faults that I find sickening. You would think people that supposedly make so much out of being openminded wouldn't be such closeminded, elitist pricks themselves. Because all you are is a mirror image of the conservatives you take every opportunity to try to put yourselves above.

Also, when I decided to "quit", I didn't make a post about it. I didn't need a "bash liberals" party on my way out, but apparently the left needs to constantly reinforce their superiority and enlightened status.

You're right Alan.... you are such a better man than I. You ignored the paragraph where I stated I cannot post ANYWHERE on this board for fear of having it used to attack me.

And you attack me here. I'm just talking about how I FEEL and why I am leaving but you want to turn it into a personal attack. This is not a debate, this is not anythjing more than MY FEELINGS and why I am leaving Politics and NOW MAYBE TFP altogether.

YOU CHOSE TO TAKE WHAT I FELT AND ATTACK ME. (Such a graceful "winner" you are, Alan.)

This is not meant as a bash "GOP" thread it's about how some here, have bullied used personal attack and refuse true debate and how if I stay I will have to lower myself to that level.... and I refuse to.

I challenge you to find 1 thread where I have attacked anyone and what they have posted about their pasts, or their families or their life. Now, I challenge you to find out how many have done it to me.

Yet, I'm the bad guy?

I guess you are just a better man than I ever will be.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Last edited by pan6467; 02-18-2006 at 08:45 AM..
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Old 02-18-2006, 08:54 AM   #25 (permalink)
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A.) If you want to take a break, then fine. I would encourage that. I've done it myself.

B.) If the need to open a thread, to explain the reasons why, exists (which I highly question, in the first place) then just do so, and go. Take a few days, a week, a month, whatever. Don't just use the thread as a platform from which to continue a constant barage of finger pointing, and insults.

C.) Tecoyah was correct, in that we've pretty much left politics alone, unless things got too out of hand. That may change...and soon. In fact, I can pretty much guarantee that. This thread, and the commentary therein, are a prime example of why. Make no mistake. both sides of the fence have just as dirty faces as the other.

D.) This thread is...finished!
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