Click my frontal lobe baby. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

prosequence · 11-05-2003, 02:36 PM

If thought (or the process of) is basically a series of electrical charges, will we be able to collect, filter and decode them to the point of downloads at some point in the future?

CSflim · 11-05-2003, 02:45 PM

In principle: yes.
In practice: No, at least not for a very very very long time, and making predictions on large timescales is a completely pointless endevour.

No doubt the soulists will vehemently disagreee that it is even in principle possible to do such a thing.

The really interesting thing is what happens when you work the other way. Rather than just monitoring, and decoding, what happens if you try to modify these signals?
A techno-geek's wet dream!

sipsake · 11-05-2003, 02:45 PM

Yes, just be sure each download is legitimately purchased and fully licensed by the RIAA or they'll sue your sorry butt.

prosequence · 11-05-2003, 03:00 PM

Hehe, kinda would suck if you had a song stuck in your head.... paying royalties out the ass!

cliche · 11-05-2003, 03:12 PM

CSFlim - I saw on TV a while back that 2 guys had taken the normal surface electrical signals that the brain produces from one guy, fed it through a massive amplifier, and "played it back" at the other.
Apparently he experienced a fairly trippy light show... I can't remember much of the detail - did anyone else see/hear of this?

spived2 · 11-05-2003, 03:26 PM

They are already modifying some brain signals to help the blind be able to see vague shapes and for other medical purposes.

rogue49 · 11-05-2003, 03:30 PM

This concept has been explored in these two films

The Matrix
and
Johnny Mnemonic

I'm sure it's coming but it will be several decades away.

CSflim · 11-05-2003, 03:37 PM

They had a very intersting article on Fark a few weeks ago about a monkey controlling a robotic arm with his brain. Incredibly interesting. anyone got a link? (too tired to search right now)

prosequence · 11-05-2003, 05:48 PM

If decoding becomes possible, how about "uploading" ... instead of jails, maybe we can truly "reprogram" people.

Midnight_Son · 11-05-2003, 06:34 PM

I think the resources of the human mind are so “untapped” that virtually anything we can imagine is possible.
Can you in-vision going to a college were you don’t have to sit through classes but instead simply “plug in” and your studies are downloaded? Fascinating stuff!
However the thought of uploading is very intriguing as well…. Reprogramming, although a very useful tool would probably never happen because of the ethical side of it.

dragon2fire · 11-05-2003, 07:25 PM

now that is a interesting question

i dont see why it cant happen

but i do have to say it is likely gona be a while

Midnight_Son · 11-06-2003, 11:18 AM

I thought of another “positive” use for “reprogramming”, what about people that suffer from posttraumatic stress…or what about victims of violent crimes? For instance a young woman is raped or something horrible like that…. Instead of having to live with the memories of that and possibly being psychologically screwed up the rest of her life, the memory in question could simply be erased. Obviously I’m not talking about “erasing yesterday because you had a bad day”. But, under certain circumstances I think it would be very beneficial to the patient.

Jynx · 11-06-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prosequence
... instead of jails, maybe we can truly "reprogram" people.

does anyone else besides me feel a vague sense of dread at this concept?

...
..
we are the borg
you will be assimilated
..
...

twotimesadingo · 11-06-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jynx
does anyone else besides me feel a vague sense of dread at this concept?

Depends on where you think the human race is heading.

I think it's undeniable that "reprogramming" could have invaluable uses, but we would be sacrificing a very large portion of our personal autonomy and sovereignty to realize those uses.

CSflim · 11-07-2003, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jynx
does anyone else besides me feel a vague sense of dread at this concept?

Who knows, as a side effect you may end up hating Beethoven's 9th.

Viddy well my brother, viddy well

sipsake · 11-07-2003, 02:30 PM

There is no spoon.

John Henry · 11-08-2003, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliche
CSFlim - I saw on TV a while back that 2 guys had taken the normal surface electrical signals that the brain produces from one guy, fed it through a massive amplifier, and "played it back" at the other.
Apparently he experienced a fairly trippy light show... I can't remember much of the detail - did anyone else see/hear of this?

No, but did they check that the same thing didn't happen with random signals. If not, then it wasn't proper science and doesn't mean anything, but in response to the original question, there have been succesful experiments with neurofeedback as a way of controlling computers.

prosequence · 11-08-2003, 08:34 AM

Maybe shock therapy wasn't so barbaric after all... just not refined enough *chuckle*

ARTelevision · 11-08-2003, 08:40 AM

Yes. Right now it is called "perception," "communication," and "thinking" and is done without batteries, wires, or other man-made components.

In the future, as all things natural and pre-existent, it will be re-done with fabricated external assistance.

Dilbert1234567 · 11-08-2003, 05:41 PM

and then the hacking begins

Jasmar · 11-08-2003, 10:03 PM

Reprogramming? someone would right a virus programming everyone into chickens

empu · 11-10-2003, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasmar
Reprogramming? someone would right a virus programming everyone into chickens

Where did you think all the chickens came from?

prosequence · 11-11-2003, 11:08 AM

Would this make schooling a breeze? How much farther would we advance?

Eldaire · 11-12-2003, 06:26 PM

AI? I don't think so.
Uploading? I do think so.

That's about the end of it. I have my reasons, but it would require several pages to back it up, so I figured I'd give you the short and sweet.

CSflim · 11-13-2003, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eldaire
AI? I don't think so.
Uploading? I do think so.

That's about the end of it. I have my reasons, but it would require several pages to back it up, so I figured I'd give you the short and sweet.

just out of curiosity...

Is it an all out "NO, in principle" or a "no, it would be much to difficult for us to do"

meembo · 11-13-2003, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prosequence
...how about "uploading" ... instead of jails, maybe we can truly "reprogram" people.

I think we try already, with electroshock therapy and psychotropic drugs. Granted, it's crude, but both affect personality and behavior

11-05-2003, 02:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	Click my frontal lobe baby. If thought (or the process of) is basically a series of electrical charges, will we be able to collect, filter and decode them to the point of downloads at some point in the future? __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

11-05-2003, 02:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	In principle: yes. In practice: No, at least not for a very very very long time, and making predictions on large timescales is a completely pointless endevour. No doubt the soulists will vehemently disagreee that it is even in principle possible to do such a thing. The really interesting thing is what happens when you work the other way. Rather than just monitoring, and decoding, what happens if you try to modify these signals? A techno-geek's wet dream! __________________

11-05-2003, 02:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
sipsake Psycho Location: Memphis	Yes, just be sure each download is legitimately purchased and fully licensed by the RIAA or they'll sue your sorry butt. __________________ When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?" Henry Rollins

11-05-2003, 03:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	Hehe, kinda would suck if you had a song stuck in your head.... paying royalties out the ass! __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

11-05-2003, 03:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
cliche Rookie Location: Oxford, UK	CSFlim - I saw on TV a while back that 2 guys had taken the normal surface electrical signals that the brain produces from one guy, fed it through a massive amplifier, and "played it back" at the other. Apparently he experienced a fairly trippy light show... I can't remember much of the detail - did anyone else see/hear of this? __________________ I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones. -- John Cage (1912 - 1992)

11-05-2003, 03:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
spived2 Desert Rat Location: Arizona	They are already modifying some brain signals to help the blind be able to see vague shapes and for other medical purposes. __________________ "This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose vis-à-vis an introduction, and so it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V." - V

11-05-2003, 03:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	This concept has been explored in these two films The Matrix and Johnny Mnemonic I'm sure it's coming but it will be several decades away.

11-05-2003, 03:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	They had a very intersting article on Fark a few weeks ago about a monkey controlling a robotic arm with his brain. Incredibly interesting. anyone got a link? (too tired to search right now) __________________

11-05-2003, 05:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	If decoding becomes possible, how about "uploading" ... instead of jails, maybe we can truly "reprogram" people. __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

11-05-2003, 06:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
Midnight_Son The Cover Doesn't Match The Book Location: in a van down by the river	I think the resources of the human mind are so “untapped” that virtually anything we can imagine is possible. Can you in-vision going to a college were you don’t have to sit through classes but instead simply “plug in” and your studies are downloaded? Fascinating stuff! However the thought of uploading is very intriguing as well…. Reprogramming, although a very useful tool would probably never happen because of the ethical side of it. __________________ SWM, tattooed, seeks meaningful tits and beer. Enjoys biker mags, pornography, and Sunday morning walks to the liquor store. Winners of erotic hot dog eating contests given priority.

11-05-2003, 07:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
dragon2fire Junkie	now that is a interesting question i dont see why it cant happen but i do have to say it is likely gona be a while

11-06-2003, 11:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
Midnight_Son The Cover Doesn't Match The Book Location: in a van down by the river	I thought of another “positive” use for “reprogramming”, what about people that suffer from posttraumatic stress…or what about victims of violent crimes? For instance a young woman is raped or something horrible like that…. Instead of having to live with the memories of that and possibly being psychologically screwed up the rest of her life, the memory in question could simply be erased. Obviously I’m not talking about “erasing yesterday because you had a bad day”. But, under certain circumstances I think it would be very beneficial to the patient. __________________ SWM, tattooed, seeks meaningful tits and beer. Enjoys biker mags, pornography, and Sunday morning walks to the liquor store. Winners of erotic hot dog eating contests given priority.

11-07-2003, 02:30 PM	#16 (permalink)
sipsake Psycho Location: Memphis	There is no spoon. __________________ When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?" Henry Rollins

11-08-2003, 08:34 AM	#18 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	Maybe shock therapy wasn't so barbaric after all... just not refined enough chuckle __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

11-08-2003, 08:40 AM	#19 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Yes. Right now it is called "perception," "communication," and "thinking" and is done without batteries, wires, or other man-made components. In the future, as all things natural and pre-existent, it will be re-done with fabricated external assistance. __________________ create evolution

11-08-2003, 05:41 PM	#20 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	and then the hacking begins __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

11-08-2003, 10:03 PM	#21 (permalink)
Jasmar Crazy	Reprogramming? someone would right a virus programming everyone into chickens

11-11-2003, 11:08 AM	#23 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	Would this make schooling a breeze? How much farther would we advance? __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

11-12-2003, 06:26 PM	#24 (permalink)
Eldaire Loser Location: Davidson College, NC	AI? I don't think so. Uploading? I do think so. That's about the end of it. I have my reasons, but it would require several pages to back it up, so I figured I'd give you the short and sweet.