socialism - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

specialagent18 · 07-09-2003, 07:33 PM

Global capital is everywhere, for good or for bad. I don't want to muddle through the question of it being a positive or negative force in the world. The question is, where in the world are spaces where change could be located? 15 years ago we the US was in a knock-down all-out struggle against Communism. After that fight, is Communism/Socialism/Marxism or even just anti-capitalism possible?

darkhaylo · 07-10-2003, 12:45 AM

I highly doubt that such a thing could exist, at least in a larger governmental body. Nearly everybody is greedy, thus capitalism thrives. Perhaps pockets of capatalistic resistance could be created and maintained on a smaller scale. Besides, if it started to spread (however unlikely) the US would just crush it, calling it a terrorist state.

cheerios · 07-10-2003, 02:07 AM

purely politically, we (the US) seem to think that anything non-Democratic is morally evil and should be crushed. so, till we get some more.. hmm... tolerent? goverment personell... well, everyone else is gonna have a hard time of it.

Dragonlich · 07-10-2003, 06:46 AM

Socialism does not mean non-democratic, people... socialism is an economic term, while democracy is political. One can have a democratic socialist state, and actually *mean* it.

It just so happens that the more extreme forms of socialism (communism, for example) lead to too much centralization of power, which naturally leads to dictatorships.

trudes1131 · 07-13-2003, 09:32 PM

When dealing with any widescale social overhaul, particularly those of the economic nature, one has to anticipate a fair amount of resistance, regardless of how noble or esteemed the cause may be.

In this instance, to do away with capitalism would, ideally, be akin to wiping the board clean and starting from scratch. Realistically, however, the casualties left in the wake of such a fundamental shift would be considerate. For this reason, amidst numerous supporting arguments, capitalism can rest assured it has many moons remaining on its grip on North American and, subsequently, global means of living.

It's very similar to the artifical respiratory systems maintaing the lives of those who cannot do so on their own power. Sure, you're living, but to what extent? The same goes for capitalism. Sure, it's accepted, but at what cost?

About $5.99, I'd imagine. And only 39 cents extra if you'd like it super-sized.

Schwan · 07-14-2003, 01:18 AM

I thing the closest you might get to something remotely socialist, that's working, is Sweden with it's large welfare system. It's not a socialist country by any means, though.

Dragonlich · 07-14-2003, 10:08 AM

Schwan, don't forget about The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, and many other Western-Europen countries...

Schwan · 07-14-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Schwan, don't forget about The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, and many other Western-Europen countries...

Oh, I do ralize that the have similar systems too, but I don't think any of them come close to the level set by the Swedish.

Easytiger · 07-14-2003, 05:25 PM

It's kind of sad that the Cold War was all about opposing economic theories more than it was about opposing political theories.
I agree with you, Dragonlich, but I would correct you on one point- the centralised nature of communism makes it VULNERABLE to dictatorship, not PRONE to it.

Jasmar · 07-19-2003, 01:41 PM

we dont really have a problem with socialist countries last I check Uk was socialist

Randerolf · 07-19-2003, 09:26 PM

Socialism is all around us. Just not to the extent of the U.S.S.R.

Do not forget what a mixed economy is and what capitalism is not.

MacGnG · 07-20-2003, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trudes1131
About $5.99, I'd imagine. And only 39 cents extra if you'd like it super-sized.

nah it's probly more like $19.95 plus shipping and handling. but hey you get a free poster with creditcard order, or maybe they will just double your order for free....

---
There is a problem, it only works on paper; people don't.

07-09-2003, 07:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
specialagent18 Upright Location: GA	socialism Global capital is everywhere, for good or for bad. I don't want to muddle through the question of it being a positive or negative force in the world. The question is, where in the world are spaces where change could be located? 15 years ago we the US was in a knock-down all-out struggle against Communism. After that fight, is Communism/Socialism/Marxism or even just anti-capitalism possible?

07-10-2003, 12:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
darkhaylo Banned	I highly doubt that such a thing could exist, at least in a larger governmental body. Nearly everybody is greedy, thus capitalism thrives. Perhaps pockets of capatalistic resistance could be created and maintained on a smaller scale. Besides, if it started to spread (however unlikely) the US would just crush it, calling it a terrorist state.

07-10-2003, 02:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
cheerios Banned Location: 'bout 2 feet from my iMac	purely politically, we (the US) seem to think that anything non-Democratic is morally evil and should be crushed. so, till we get some more.. hmm... tolerent? goverment personell... well, everyone else is gonna have a hard time of it.

07-10-2003, 06:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Socialism does not mean non-democratic, people... socialism is an economic term, while democracy is political. One can have a democratic socialist state, and actually mean it. It just so happens that the more extreme forms of socialism (communism, for example) lead to too much centralization of power, which naturally leads to dictatorships.

07-13-2003, 09:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
trudes1131 Upright	When dealing with any widescale social overhaul, particularly those of the economic nature, one has to anticipate a fair amount of resistance, regardless of how noble or esteemed the cause may be. In this instance, to do away with capitalism would, ideally, be akin to wiping the board clean and starting from scratch. Realistically, however, the casualties left in the wake of such a fundamental shift would be considerate. For this reason, amidst numerous supporting arguments, capitalism can rest assured it has many moons remaining on its grip on North American and, subsequently, global means of living. It's very similar to the artifical respiratory systems maintaing the lives of those who cannot do so on their own power. Sure, you're living, but to what extent? The same goes for capitalism. Sure, it's accepted, but at what cost? About $5.99, I'd imagine. And only 39 cents extra if you'd like it super-sized.

07-14-2003, 01:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
Schwan A boy and his dog Location: EU!	I thing the closest you might get to something remotely socialist, that's working, is Sweden with it's large welfare system. It's not a socialist country by any means, though.

07-14-2003, 10:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Schwan, don't forget about The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, and many other Western-Europen countries...

07-14-2003, 05:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Easytiger Insane Location: Tigerland	It's kind of sad that the Cold War was all about opposing economic theories more than it was about opposing political theories. I agree with you, Dragonlich, but I would correct you on one point- the centralised nature of communism makes it VULNERABLE to dictatorship, not PRONE to it.

07-19-2003, 01:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jasmar Crazy	we dont really have a problem with socialist countries last I check Uk was socialist

07-19-2003, 09:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
Randerolf Fireball Location: ~	Socialism is all around us. Just not to the extent of the U.S.S.R. Do not forget what a mixed economy is and what capitalism is not.