Willravel

Good post. I consider myself to be a Bush supporter (still), but I wouldn't be surprised if he knew what really happened. We can hope that what was done was for our own good, but to be honest I'm not holding my breath on that one. I agree that the probabliity of the dem or rep being behind it is unlikely. It's really popular and trendy to blame Bush for everything, but I get the feeling he's as confused as we are on alot of this. His dad left some big shoes, and an even bigger hat. Bush senior was a brilliant speaker and politician. I get the feeling this trait isn't hereditary. I find it to be more likely that Wolfowitz, Rumsfield, etc might be behind it. The likely true masterminds probably arn't known to the public. If they are, then we probably don't know their true colors (some national/international organization of some kind). For all we know it was the Blue Cross, but as far as motive, planing, and ability goes, all signs point to military, foreign or domestic.

pocon1

Wait, you mentioned Senior Bush. I got it! It must be the Illuminati! Not the middle eastern version, but the Bavarian Illuminati. Remember senior's speech on a thousand points of light? only they could be diabolical and strong enough to make this attack to destabilize society.

dy156

While I am a Bush supporter, This was basically what I was going to say. I've read the whole thread, and several of the links, and have this to add:

1. Either Bush is the deer in the headlights, scared until he decides what to do guy in the Mchael Moore Film, or he is a diabolical mastermind, but not both. He's not a good enough actor to play both the deer in headlights act, the cheerleader to the fireman and recovery workers, and to get choked up and shed real tears, all about a plot that he or his supporters hatched.

2. Bin Laden took credit for the attacks.

3. The disputed evidence of the pentagon plane, I'll grant you, is interesting, but I've seen no such dispute of the World Trade Center planes, other than the "ghost plane" thing, which, if anything, just shows that a big plane could impact a large building and not act or explode the way we think it might. This, in turn, lends credibility to a big plane hitting the pentagon and not acting or exploding the way we (who have seen explosions most often from Hollywood) think it might.

4. If the evil conspirators wanted to hatch a plot like this, I'll grant you that a portion of the pentagon that was largely unoccupied would make a good target. The conspirators would presumably have been American, and American military at that, and while they wanted justification for increasing the military, or conquering the Middle East, or whatever, they wouldn't want to really kill lots of Americans, right? But then why would they have attacked the world trade center, too? I'm sure that an attack on the pentagon alone would have been huge news, and enough fror the evil plotters to justify whatever they wanted to do, why would they also attack the twin towers?
5. Okay, assuming that the trade center attacks were "real" and the Pentagon attack was fake, why would they have chosen a plane with the wife of the Solicitor General of the United States, Charles Olson, on it to do this? He and Bush are friends (I know, that could just be more fuel on the fire, so to speak, for the conspiracy theorists. Wanted to teach him a lesson or something, yeah, right.)
6. Further, assuming the world trade center attacks were real and the pentagon attacks were fake, there are a whole slew of plot "holes" that must be accounted for.

what did they do with the real plane?

how did the federal government, that can't do anything fast, plan this complex operation within a few hours?

What fighter pilot flew the f16? Even the most brainwashed would never volunteer to crash his plane into the pentagon! And for all this to happen, it would have had to have been a skilled pilot. Oh, it was remote controlled? flying at that speed and that low to the ground? Why haven't we used such technology for our most important missions before? And how did they signal it to fire a missile in the fraction of a second when it would be blocked from view and in an instant before it crashed?

While a Bush supporter, I am certainly not his biggest fan. But I don't think he, or anyone else working for the federal government, either would or could have pulled this off. I'm not convinced!

Rdr4evr

There is only one video where "Bin Laden" took responsibility for 9/11. Of that, and the numerious other video's released of Bin Laden, the 9/11 one is clearly not him. I remember I saw a website with pics discussing this, I will do a search and post it here if I find it.

todd

Wow, that was pretty interesting. I'd never heard of anything like that before.

Makes you think.

MSD

Let's break this down and separate what could have happened to the plane from who and where the missile came from. I will engage in speculation similar to that of conspiracy theorists and use minimal logic when possible.


I: Where did the plane go?

-The plane was shot down by the USAF because the people in the plane were going to die anyway and this was the only way to prevent further casualties on the ground. The plane was disabled, not destroyed, and drifted out over the Atlantic Ocean where ti crashed.

-The plane was destined to head overseas to land in a sympathetic nation where the terrorists would hold them as hostages for bargaining power. The plane ran out of fuel over the Atlantic and crashed in deep water where wreckage was not obvious.

-The plane was landed at a US aribase and the passengers were subjected to experiments/disposed of/handed over to the aliens for experimentation/whatever.

-The plane was remotely controlled and brought out over the atlantic and crashed to conceal evidence. (The missile was used to create a more precise explosion and minimize military casualties.)

-The plane actually did crash and crash scene photos could not see the hole because of smoke and water spray from fire vehicles. There was no missile.

II: Where did the missile come from?

-Terrorists fired a black market cruise missile (the plane crashed in one of the first two scenarios above) and this was covered up by the Government in order to conceal this horrifying fact and our vulnerability from the eyes of the public.

-The US military fired a missile after removing the plane (in the third or fourth scenario) in order to cause minimal damage to fellow military personnel.

-Multiple anti-aircraft missiles were fired, the plane suffered the fate described in the first scenario above, and a second missile went astray and accidentally struck the Pentagon

-The plane actually did crash and crash scene photos could not see the hole because of smoke and water spray from fire vehicles. There was no missile.


Mix and match, create your own conspiracy theory.

host

<b>Theodore Olson, husband of alleged Flt. 77 passenger, Barbara Olson:</b>
<a href="http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/print/V13/9/kaminer-w.html">
"There are lots of different situations when the government has legitimate reasons to give out false information," Solicitor General Theodore Olson told the U.S. Supreme Court in March, 2002.</a><br>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/subliminalsuggestion/olson.html">THE MOTHER OF ALL LIES ABOUT 9/11 - Barbara Olson's Phone Call From Flight 77</a><br><br><p>
<a href="http://www.nypress.com/17/30/news&columns/AlanCabal.cfm">
MIRACLES AND WONDERS</a><p CLASS="bodycopy">Last week, <i>USA Today </i>reported a joint effort between Qualcomm
and American Airlines' to allow passengers to make cellphone calls from aircraft in flight. According
to the story, the satellite-based system employs a "Pico cell" to act as a small cellular tower.</p></p>
<p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy">"It worked great," gushed Monte Ford, American Airline's chief information officer. "I called
the office. I called my wife. I called a friend in Paris. They all heard me great, and I could hear them
loud and clear."</p></p>
<p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy">Before this new "Pico cell," it was nigh on impossible to make a call from a passenger aircraft
in flight. Connection is impossible at altitudes over 8000 feet or speeds in excess of 230 mph.</p></p>
<p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy"><b>Yet despite this, passengers Todd Beamer, Mark Bingham, Jeremy Glick and Edward Felt all managed
to place calls from Flight 93 on the morning of September 11. Peter Hanson, en route to Disneyland
with his wife and daughter, phoned his dad from Flight 175. Madeline Amy Sweeney, a flight attendant,
made a very dramatic call from Flight 11 as it sped to the North Tower. Barbara Olson made two calls,
collect, to her husband at his government office from Flight 77 as it made its way to the Pentagon.</b></p></p>

<p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy">Each call was initially reported as coming from a cellphone. Later, when skepticism reared
its ugly head and the Grassy Knollers arrived, the narrative became fuzzy; it was suggested that
$10-a-minute Airfones were involved. Olson was an easy candidate for Airfone (one doesn't call
collect from a cell), but as the stories developed, Olson—and Felt—were said to have
called from inside locked lavatories. No Airfone there.</p></p>
<p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy">In the very near future, numerous technological miracles and wonders will rise up out of the
ashes of that terrible day, much the way the space program supposedly gave us Tang and Velcro. Satam
Al-Suqami's indestructible passport, for one, is currently under the microscope in the Reverse
Engineering Department at Area 51. My old passport was falling apart when I finally replaced it
last year, just from spending 10 years in my pocket. His survived the destruction of the World Trade
Center. I want one of those.</p></p>
<p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy">Likewise, professional bowlers could benefit from inquiries into whatever physical force
brought about the collapse of WTC 7. And as a frequent flyer who finds long-term parking difficult
and expensive, I'd like to know by what mechanism Mohammed Atta got to Portland, ME, where he was
videotaped boarding a flight to Logan Airport in Boston. His rental car was found at Logan.</p></p>
<p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy"><b>And last but not least, every suburban homeowner will want the miraculous PentaGrass. Whatever
that lawn at the Pentagon is made out of, it sure is amazing stuff—it resists and repels fire,
explosion, skid marks, aircraft debris, jet fuel, luggage and body parts. Shit from your neighbor's
dog won't stand a chance!</b></p></p>
<p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy">Who would've thought there'd be a silver lining even in the debris cloud made that Tuesday morning?
</p><p CLASS="bodycopy"><p CLASS="bodycopy">
<a href="http://www.nypress.com/17/30/news&columns/AlanCabal.cfm">http://www.nypress.com/17/30/news&columns/AlanCabal.cfm</a><br><p>
<a href="http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html">Click here to view Photos of the Amazing Penta-Lawn on 9/11</a><br><br><p>

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.olson/">http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.olson/</a><br><br><p>
<a href="http://physics911.org/net/modules/xfsection/print.php?articleid=1">SPINE Discussion about Cellphone Calls and 9/11</a>

host

<b>The link at the beginning of my above post needs to be emphasized here:
</b><a href="http://www.geocities.com/subliminalsuggestion/olson.html">THE MOTHER OF ALL LIES ABOUT 9/11 - Barbara Olson's Phone Call From Flight 77
</a> Copyright Joe Vialls, 27 March 2002
"This is a story about a little white lie that bred dozens of other little white lies, then hundreds of bigger white lies and so on, to the point where the first little white lie must be credited as the “Mother of All Lies” about events on 11 September 2001. For this was the little white lie that first activated the American psyche, generated mass loathing, and enabled media manipulation of the global population.<br>
Without this little white lie there would have been no Arab Hijackers, no Osama Bin Laden directing operations from afar, and no “War on Terror” in Afghanistan and occupied Palestine. Clearly the lie was so clever and diabolical in nature, it must have been generated by the “Power Elite” in one of its more earthly manifestations. Perhaps it was the work of the Council on Foreign Relations, or the Trilateral Commission?<br>
No, it was not. Though at the time the little white lie was flagged with a powerful political name, there was and remains no evidence to support the connection. Just like the corrupt and premature Lee Harvey Oswald story in 1963, there are verifiable fatal errors which ultimately prove the little white lie was solely the work of members of the media. Only they had access, and only they had the methods and means.<br>
The little white lie was about Barbara Olson, a conservative commentator for CNN and wife of US Solicitor General Ted Olson. Now deceased, Mrs Olson is alleged to have twice called her husband from an American Airlines Flight 77 seat-telephone, before the aircraft slammed into the Pentagon. This unsubstantiated claim, reported by CNN remarkably quickly at 2.06 am EDT [0606 GMT] on September 12, was the solitary foundation on which the spurious “Hijacker” story was built.<br>
<b>Without the “eminent” Barbara Olson and her alleged emotional telephone calls, there would never be any proof that humans played a role in the hijack and destruction of the four aircraft that day. Lookalike claims surfaced several days later on September 16 about passenger Todd Beamer and others, but it is critically important to remember here that the Barbara Olson story was the only one on September 11 and. 12. It was beyond question the artificial “seed” that started the media snowball rolling down the hill.</b><br>
And once the snowball started rolling down the hill, it artfully picked up Osama Bin Laden and a host of other “terrorists” on the way. By noon on September 12, every paid glassy-eyed media commentator in America was either spilling his guts about those “Terrible Muslim hijackers”, or liberating hitherto classified information about Osama Bin Laden. “Oh sure, it was Bin Laden,” they said blithely, oblivious to anything apart from their television appearance fees.<br>
The deliberate little white lie was essential. Ask yourself: What would most Americans have been thinking about on September 12, if CNN had not provided this timely fiction? Would anyone anywhere have really believed the insane government story about failed Cessna pilots with box cutters taking over heavy jets, then hurling them expertly around the sky like polished Top Guns from the film of the same name? Of course not! As previously stated there would have been no Osama Bin Laden, and no “War on Terror” in Afghanistan and occupied Palestine.<br>
This report is designed to examine the sequence of the Olson events and lay them bare for public examination. Dates and times are of crucial importance here, so if this report seems tedious try to bear with me. Before moving on to discuss the impossibility of the alleged calls, we first need to examine how CNN managed to “find out” about them, reported here in the September 12 CNN story at 2.06 am EDT:<br>
“Barbara Olson, a conservative commentator and attorney, alerted her husband, Solicitor General Ted Olson, that the plane she was on was being hijacked Tuesday morning, Ted Olson told CNN. Shortly afterwards Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon” … “Ted Olson told CNN that his wife said all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers. The only weapons she mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters. She felt nobody was in charge and asked her husband to tell the pilot what to do.”<br>
At no point in the above report does CNN quote Ted Olson directly. If the report was authentic and 100% attributable, it would have been phrased quite differently. Instead of “Ted Olson told CNN that his wife said all passengers and flight personnel…”, the passage would read approximately:- Mr Olson told CNN, “My wife said all passengers and flight personnel…” Whoever wrote this story was certainly not in direct contact with US Solicitor General Ted Olson......"<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.olson/">http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.olson/</a>
<br>
As for me....I do not know what to think of all this.....but even after three
years....it still smells....similar to the way the recently discredited 2004
Florida "felon voter purge list" smells (whoops, after CNN sued to get the
courts to open the secret purge list for public scrutiny, it was discovered
that 2000+ names on the list were of voters who had applied for and received
clemency from Gov. Jeb Bush, and.....after Jeb and his Secretary of State
both swore that the list intended to prevent up to 48,000 people from voting,
was rechecked to insure accuracy, but had to be kept secret to "protect privacy" CNN sucessfully persuaded a state court judge to order disclosure
it was discovered by the the Sarasota Herald Tribune that the 2004 purge list
HAD ALMOST NO HISPANIC NAMES ON IT, due to a "database error"), and
the way the 2000 Florida 65,000 names voter purge list smelled....since only
seven states do not automatically restore voting rights to felons who complete
their sentences, and the accuracy of that list was called into question, and
now because Florida recently was found to have neglected to give a notice,
required by law, to 125,000 inmates, since at least 1993, informing them at
the time of their release, how to apply to the governor for clemency in order
to restore their right to vote. Bush "won Florida" by 537 votes,
<a href="http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/11/State/Florida_scraps_felon_.shtml">
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/11/State/Florida_scraps_felon_.shtml</a><br>
9/11 and Florida voting both smell like the Nazi's 1934 "Reichstag Fire", to me:
<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm">
When Democracy Failed: Warnings of History</a>

wnker85

I think that we can blame a lot of this on movies. In movies they make stuff look a lot worse than it is. Gore, explosions and so on and so forth. Example is cars, cars don't blow up in burning balls of flame, unless there was a bomb underneath it. So, when a plane hits a building and the building doesn't explode like a nuke with a musharoom cloud, it can't be real, and plus don't missles actually destroy more than that was damaged at the pentagon

Willravel

But the airplane fuel should have at least singed the grass for chrisake.

pan6467

It is a very interesting theory and may prove true, but right now it is nothing more than conjecture. Although had it been on Clinton's watch the Right would undoubtedly use the same information they are poo-pooing to hang the noose around Clinton's throat so I don't see why the right seems to be so righteous.

I will say this, from what I remember of the 9/11 explanations the plane that hit the Pentagon did so at an angle (as if it were on its side) where the wing actually hit the building then the plane in force. I do not ever remember hearing that it was 2 feet above the ground and hit straight on as the tape and the writings claim.

Perhaps my memory is faulty but that is how I remember the explanation going.

Also, the tape does not explain where the 757 actually went if it didn't hit the Pentagon. The one bad thing about vastly huge conspiracy theories is that very very large groups of people have to be in on itand all have to be extremely silent about every little detail (when dealing with so many people it would be impossible). Here the AT's who tracked the plane, the firefighters, everybody in the Pentagon, the airline, all the surrounding airports, and so on, because the 757 had to go somewhere it didn't just vanish into thin air. Those people did die so....

Hell, Watergate only had a handful of people and it was leaked and shown. Imagine 100's more knowing and nothing being leaked, totally unfathomable. Even Roswell (whether you believe or not) was leaked.

The only way a conspiracy can work is when the fewest people know and even then it's iffy. Kennedy's assassination I think is a great example of a conspiracy that worked. I believe very very few knew, enough disinformation was released to push conspiracy theorists in one direction and the truth was hidden possibly forever.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

CConner

Okay, for all you people that say "we" need to get a reality check; a plane hit the pentagon. For you information I live in DC too. Think rationally for one damn minute.

I completely believe in you having your own beliefs but actually try to visualize it for what it could be.

They show video after video of WTC. (We fear for our lives)

They show about 5 minutes of the Pentagon. (We just got even more scared - - That’s our fucking Pentagon [Our Government]). We don’t even have to see the plane and we believe everything they tell us.

We are now ready and willing to support Bush on going to war to show them not to mess with America.

They show video after video of us taking shit out in the so called “War on Terrorism”.

We actually believe the stories of how the people in Iraq love us. Listen to the stories of soldiers who have returned; they talk of hate from the Iraqi people.

We have killed many innocent people and we have lost many innocent lives. If you think that nobody would ever do this then you are mistaken. We live in a fucked up world.

Think about this, what clothes are you wearing? Do you fit into a stereotypical group? Even if you dress differently because you say you aren’t a follower you just became a stereotype. Now if I know this, just like most everyone does, isn’t it possible that there are ways to direct your attention to a certain idea. Think big, think HUGE!!

We as Americans are especially fragile. We live in the so called “Land Of The Free”. You take some of that freedom away and we adapt. We follow because our Government has our best interest at heart.

I have said a lot but let’s just say that this is one big world and I seriously doubt that our Goverment is completely ran by America. Remember we are in debt.



Chris

saut

And what about the Shoggoth that may or may not have escaped? What of it!?

pedro padilla

when you add it all up, whatever the truths, untruths or outright lies, it just obviously don´t smell right. for this to have occured in the manner presented to the public is pretty much ludicrous. we´ll probably never know what actually went down that day but it just doesn´t add up. it reminds me of some of the evidence and behind the scenes manipulation in the failed iran hostage rescue that Reagan and crew pulled off when ousting Carter. Nah, some stinky shit was pulled off somehow and managed to be completely covered up with an almost textbook manipulation of the media. any honest questioning of the "official" version is antipatriotic. if you dare to disagree with our fearless leaders you are an al qaeda sympathizer or actual terrorist in the wings. absolute unquestioning allegiance is not an american value that i personally find to be an admirable quality.
George Bush without his war on terror is a dumb guy with a rich dad who has failed miserably in every thing he´s touched. with his resume he probably couldn´t swing a job flipping burgers at mickey d´s.

darkmagnus

I think Elvis came up with the idea of 9/11.

CConner

Your hilarious darkmagnus; people actually lost their lives in a result of what happened on 9/11 and people are still losing their lives everyday as a result. Joke all you want, but just remember your the only one laughing here.



-Chris

darkmagnus

Chris,

My comment is no more far fetched then the the unfounded "conspiracy theories" that are being spoken about in this thread.

What I said is no more appalling then what you guys are proposing in this thread.

Dark

raven12

I would like to think that the president doesnt know anything about this, but weirder things have happened.

CConner

Dark, Someone did come up with 9/11, that's why it happened. If you paid close attention to a lot of stuff it's almost clear that Bush is involved with a few weird events. Him and his father to this day meet with the Bin Laden family, but I guess that could just be a courtesy thing considering they have funded many of the Bush companys.

Wait how come we have not found any missles of mass destruction, why the hell are we still there fighting, and why the hell are we probably going to attck Iran. Oh my bad; because Bush says they have missles of mass destruction; the same reason we attcked Iraq.

If we are helping the people of Iraq so much why do they hate us? Why have a seen footage of soldiers running over a civilians car with their tank just because he did'nt do as they said.

Butyour right, these are just conspiracy theories; this is just something that someone made up that a few are following; it could'nt be possible, NOT the American Goverment, NOT Bush!!

Too many wrong things going on. I could continue to believe what they tell me everyday on tv but this so called "conspiracy theory" sounds a lot more legit.



-Chris

pocon1

CConner, If our government were so capable of doing devious actions like blowing up our own people and crashing planes everywhere without getting caught, then it would have been nothing for them to plant evidence of wmd's in Iraq. Hell, we could have made it look like they came from Syria, Iran, or even France. So why have we not "found" any wmd's in Iraq? Because we don't plant fake wmds and we don't kill our own people to start wars.

Willravel

We wen't working alone in Iraq. We would be working alone in the US. Can you imagine British and Spanish officials coming across the US planting evidence?

pan6467

Well, to start the Spanish American War at the turn of the 1800-1900 century, we did blow up our own ship in Cuba and blamed the Spanish.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dy156

Damn good point!
Spanish American war is completely irrelevant.
Yes, there is a coalition, but if the US government could do all this, don't you think they could plant chemical weapons in Iraq that could fool the British? We had/have way more troops and support there and traffic going into and out of Iraq than all the coalition members combined. Any evil mastermind that could come up with a plot like this would surely have all his bases covered, including us "finding" WMD in Iraq even if they weren't there.

Nothing has been more embarassing or politically damaging to the Bush administration than the fact that no WMD have been found in Iraq. Surely if they concocted this grand scheme to go there, they would have thought through this contingency. They didn't because there wasn't a grand scheme or plot to create 9/11 and use it to go conquer some countries in the middle east. They may be mistaken, they may be stupid, but they are not plotting some conspiracy.

saut

Of course, one must take into account the possibility that the conspiracy theory stated here is correct in some form, but also that the American government may not be behind it. Perhaps it was intended that we look like idiots in Iraq when no WMDs are found. There's just too many possibilities.

braindamage351

I really don't see how anyone in their right mind could believe the stories of 9/11 as told by the media.

YOU CAN'T HIJACK A PLANE WITH BOXCUTTERS. It's not possible. Everyone on the plane knew they were going to die if they let things go, and as a mob they could have effortlessly beaten the terrorists to death. You can't tell me that on an entire flight there wasn't a SINGLE guy who wanted to be the hero? It's ridiculous.

Rdr4evr

...........

hulk

On a similar note, ever notice how every single terrorist organisation suddenly has Al-Quaeda links? They make sure to point that out every time the mention one. Linked to Al-Quaeda. In contact with Bin Laden. Blah blah blah. Looking here, well, standing thirty meters behind one of those engines at full throttle will blast the skin off your body. That grass would have been obliterated. A friend of mine was at Pearce Airbase on a cadet course when the Singaporean Marchetti crashed. Strangely enough, the impact was about the same size as the Pentagon.

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

Rekna

Bin Laden is starting to because synonymous with the boogie man!

Rekna

or maybe he is Keyser Soze!

pedro padilla

what about all the 9-11 commision censored references to the saudi family? and the now coming to light cheney energy commision pre 9-11 iraq plans? bandar bush? new diebold voting machines? just too much evidence showing that it ain´t paranoia, it´s reality folks. be scared. be very scared.

gooch

First time i've read up about any of that, fookin scary stuff.

darkmagnus

CLAPS LOUDLY!!!!

darkmagnus

Ok, tough guy, I hope you are on the next flight that gets hijacked. I bet you are the first one to shit your pants, if you aren't, I want to see a news report where braindamage351 just saved the US from a terrorist attack, due to his bravery and cunning. If I do, I will be the first to apologize.

Church

To start, it wouldn't be beneficial to the economy to go in, find the WMDs, and then win the war. The longer they can drag out the war, the better it is for the money grubbing companies that sponsor the wars. Another reason they haven't found anything is because they are on enemy soil, surrounded by reporters, investigators, vengeful citizens, and enemy forces. If they were to say that they found WMDs and hadn't, it would have been disproven in a matter of hours by SOMEONE. At least on their own soil they can control the media.

__________________
Through counter-intelligence, it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble makers, and neutralize them.

Church

Wow, I hope you're never put into a situation where you have to protect somone you love if all it takes is boxcutters to keep you down.

__________________
Through counter-intelligence, it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble makers, and neutralize them.

darkmagnus

Well, if it is on a plane, and I am the only one I have to protect, I hope you are there to take the plane over and have it slam into the ground. I will thanky you in either heaven or hell. You a pilot?

Church

Hrm. If I could actually understand what you just wrote, I may be able to respond. Sorry buddy.

Here is a link that may help you.

__________________
Through counter-intelligence, it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble makers, and neutralize them.

scout

You know people as a whole are sheep. Everyone is taught to not resist. Everyone is taught that resistance is futile and only makes the situation worse. Women are taught that if they are raped not to resist. People are taught if your being mugged never carry a gun, just give to muggers anything they want and they might let you live. With this kind of mentality it's easy to see why on the first two planes that noone resisted against box cutters. Who would want to get cut unnecessarily? How would you know that anyone else would back you up against 7 men armed with sharp boxcutters? They {the passangers} probably thought they was merely being hijacked to another airport where someone would negotiate their safe release. They had no idea they was all going to die. On the third plane that crashed people had actually learned what was going on and resisted because they knew there was no hope of survival if they didn't.

Willravel

So your point is that people should learn to be less timid? I'm sure that's a good lesson, but there are people out there, not necessarily on a whole, but a decent number of people, who WOULD stand up for what is right. I think we should aknowledge that there is a possibility that someone would, upon realizing the grand scheme, try to defend his or her country. Box cutters and skinny terrorists are no match for a whole plane of angry, goofy americans. I think that, following the mob mentaility through to its end, if one person stodd up to them, there is a much better chance that this person would have support from other brave individuals, and then the rest of the passengers would follow in suit.
I would like to think that American people are not so stupid as to simply bend over and take it in a dangerous situation such as this one. I can't say, just as you can't, what really happened on the planes. We all wish we knew what transpired on the planes themselves, but we can't claim to know. I don't even claim to know the odds of this or that. I know that if some terrorist, or member of another illegal group tried to threaten me with box cutters, I'd laugh. We are talking about very small knives. That fact alone could have been enough for someone to think, [I] wait a minute, he doesn't have a gun, a bat, or a large knife, he has a little dinky pair of scissors or something. I don't have to be scared of this ass. [I]
Were there 7 hijackers? I don't really remember. Well the isles are narrow, and the seats make it very difficult to move, so even if there were 7 armed men, you'd only have to face 2 or 3 at once. I don't mind those odds, do you?
I could be wrong. My faith in the American people may be misplaced. I hope it isn't. I know that, after what happened, if I were ever in that situation I would be willing to sacrifice my life to try and save the lives of others. I hope everyone reading this would, too. That is Americas true deterrant.

Rdr4evr

Nevermind....