Sion

ok, so I had a set of drums when I was a kid, and I learned (barely) how to keep time....fast forward 25 years and I bought a set recently. decided that if I was ever going to indulge in my fantasy that I can be a halfway competent musician...now is the time.

so, what I need from yinz is this: some song recommendations

I need some really simple stuff in the classic rock vein to cut my teeth on, develop my chops, as it were.

I mean REALLY simple.

No, I mean REALLY, REALLY, REALLY simple...straight time, little or no syncopation, no fancy fills, etc.

I have to ask because 95% of the stuff I have is much more complicated than I can do right now (or maybe ever...Neil Peart and Bonham are NOT for beginners).

to give you an example of where I am...one of the songs I've been working on is Donnie Iris' "Love is like a rock" which is very basic, percussion-wise. I've got it about 80% down, after playing along with it about 2 dozen times.

so whatcha got for me TFP?

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Martian

If you're going to play drums, you need to learn the rudiments first. I'm not actually a drummer, so I don't know a lot, but I can give you a couple techniques to start with.

Start with the diddle. It is, simply put, two strokes with the same hand. You drill them by repeating the pattern on alternating hands, so it looks like this.

LL RR LL RR LL RR LL RR

And so on ad nauseum. Focus on precision more than speed; you want to keep a steady rhythm without speeding up or slowing down. A metronome would probably be a good investment, since it will keep you more or less in time. When you're doing them accurately you can speed things up, but make sure you keep that precision. This eventually leads to a double stroke roll.

Next there's the paradiddle. It goes like this:

LRLL RLRR LRLL RLRR

Each set of four strokes is one paradiddle and when drilling you always alternate hands. Again, precision is what matters. Do them slow and slowly speed things up.

I know this stuff is kind of boring, but it's a bit like doing scale drills on a guitar (which I can speak to, since I am a guitarist). You do the boring stuff first, so that you can get the proper techniques down in order to do the really cool stuff. Once upon a time Neil Peart did paradiddles too; it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that when he started out he did them all day long.

Unlike me Flyman is a drummer, so he might be able to give you a little more to go with when he gets here.

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Sion

yeah, I did paradiddles and flamadiddles when I was a kid and taking lessons.

I thank you for the effort, but I don't think I really need that kinda help. I work on that kind of stuff when I freeform.

I just want some very basic tunes (that I might like) to work on developing a groove. something I dont have to think about while playing.



also, I might add that I have no delusions that I'm gonna grow up and be a rock star (I think 40 is a bit too old for that, ya know?) but I hope to get good enough to jam with some folks I know...maybe even one day form a hobby band and play out once in a while.

__________________
He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

DaveOrion

Just pick your own songs Sion, whatever you like thats simple. Trying to play to something you dont know or like probably wont work very well. You're past the beginner stage if you can play all the basic paradiddles and such, so just go off. Get some headphones so you can hear the music and play, play, play.

I played drums in the HS marching band and had a set at home, thats what I did. Played what I liked, rock, and beat the shit out of em. Neil Peart I wasnt, but I played well enough to join a local rock band and was able to get laid on occasion, so it worked for me. Those were the days......

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God of Thunder

You want simple back beats with no fancy fills to emulate? I got two words for ya...

Ringo Starr.

Ringo is most noted for being the most solid back beat in music. Learn from him and them move up.

Others to consider:

Max Weinberg (E Street Band, Conan O'Brien's band)
Liberty Devito (Billy Joel)
Rick Allen (Def Leppard) * Hysteria and later. Once he lost the arm, he was forced to go to a simpler back beat style.

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ratbastid

Here's some advice from an actual musician: I'd encourage you not to blow off your rudiments. The point of drilling diddles, flams and paradiddles isn't to get good at playing diddles, flams and paradiddles. You're developing rhythm, hand speed, hand independence, coordination, dexterity, and drumhead-feel while you do those. Accomplished drummers frequently begin rehearsal periods with five to ten minutes of warm-up rudiments. So, diddling a couple times and saying, "Ok, I can diddle" and then moving on misses the point of practice completely.

Practice isn't glamorous, and it isn't necessarily fun. If it sounds good, you're probably not actually practicing. In my Jazz piano studies, I'm playing "ii - V - I" chords in all keys with all alternations OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. I know them, and I can do them, but that's not the point. The point is that I'm developing something in my muscle memory as I do them--and I'm getting to the point that when I just play a tune, my hands do the right thing on their own. THAT'S why you practice rudiments.

The first beat you want to learn is "straight time". Four counts. Closed high-hat on every quarter. Bass on one, snare on three. Get to the point that you can play 64 bars of straight time in perfect sync with a metronome--without embellishments, please. Oh, and GET A METRONOME. Every beginning drummer NEEDS a metronome. Don't you roll your eyes at me. Go get a metronome.

Once you can do that, add a bass hit every second "two". So the bass is going "one - - - one two - - ". You'll notice you're now playing the drum intro to "Sergeant Pepper's Reprise" as played by Ringo Starr.

From there, you should pick music you like to emulate. That's called having influences, and it's how people develop themselves as musicians.

Redlemon

How can you tell a drummer's at the door?
The knocking speeds up.

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roachboy

much in the end depends on what you want to do.
if you want to play 4, if you want ba doom chuck ba doom doom chuck to play 4 all the time in a rock context then ba doom chuck what the other rb said above seems right. particularly the practice part. and within that, the process of getting co-ordination in simpler patterns and then moving to increasing levels of independence/control.


but speaking as a pianist who understands playing the rock and roll as being sent into the seventh circle of hell (this despite the fact that i am an avid listener) i would encourage you to listen to lots of styles and pay particular attention to the drumming. not that you'd be able to play what you hear right away, but to open up your thinking and your listening to other more advanced possibilities than ba doom chuck ba doom doom chuck.

like jazz. like max roach or philly joe jones or elvin jones or eddie blackwell or don moye or andrew cyrille or calvin weston or ronald shannon jackson---or some of the "freejazz" drummers who do not generally drum time at al on the order of sunny murray, milford graves.
or tony allen (of fela kuti's old bands) who is simply mind-boggling.

in more experrymental music, from what i have been seeing over the past couple years, the most influential newer drummer out there paul nilsson-love (from the scortch trio amongst other things)--you should try to see show involving this kind of approach to what amounts of treated/manipulated drumkits--most of this is about suggesting that you listen to drumming that uses pitch AND rhythm as elements.

the reason i say all this is that i have found it important to cultivate a way of practicing that is about exploring possibilities in addition to learning the basics. you need both, if my experience is any guide at least. learning the basics simply requires that you put in the work. the payoff will be when you get control over them and play with other folk and it sounds as you would prefer. but the work can be drudgery at times, and so having another area that you might think of at first as being playtime is good as well--and it may turn out that over time these will start blurring into each other. the playtime stuff is still practicing--you're still working the same skill set, still pushing toward co-ordination and through that toward independence of your hands and feet--but it can keep practicing from getting too closely associated with drudgery alone. this was important to me when i was starting to play 40 years ago (holy shit...) and it is important to me when i practice now--and the reason i say this is that while i am a pianist (the piano is a drum) the fact is that i have been able to maintain a relationship with my instrument for a very long time and this is a big part of what has made that possible.

so i pass that along.

redlemon: i thought the knocking was sped up by bass players....

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healer

I've always wanted to learn to play the drums, but unfortunately have never had the time or the money to make the investment. Reading this thread, however, has fueled my desire to learn to play. You'll be hearing from me.

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ratbastid

Either can be equally complicit. Worst is when they're BOTH pushing.

Fortunately for the drummer, when you fuck up it usually sounds like somebody else's mistake.

Sion

I must say that some of you make a LOT of assumptions about what I'm doing (or not doing, as the case may be) with regard to practicing. And while I understand that you're hearts are in the right place, that doesn't mean that your assumptions are correct.

Trust me when I say that I have a pretty good idea what I'm doing. I'm 40, not 14. I know that there'll be a lot of drudgery (to use roachboy's term) involving rudiments. I also know that the web is full of places where a beginning musician can find drills for working on rudiments. That's why I didn't ask for that type of help.

I merely asked for some suggestions with regard to simple songs to work with as I develop my skills. As I said above: "I have to ask because 95% of the stuff I have is much more complicated than I can do right now".


roachboy, this:

"the reason i say all this is that i have found it important to cultivate a way of practicing that is about exploring possibilities in addition to learning the basics. you need both, if my experience is any guide at least. learning the basics simply requires that you put in the work. the payoff will be when you get control over them and play with other folk and it sounds as you would prefer. but the work can be drudgery at times, and so having another area that you might think of at first as being playtime is good as well--and it may turn out that over time these will start blurring into each other. the playtime stuff is still practicing--you're still working the same skill set, still pushing toward co-ordination and through that toward independence of your hands and feet--but it can keep practicing from getting too closely associated with drudgery alone."

pretty accurately describes what I do when I'm not working on a song.


oh, and ratbastid, I've been considering a metronome.

__________________
He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

albania

I don't know much about music. I don't even know why I started reading this thread, but what you said sir made it all worthwhile.

Fly

Sion man........if you wanna keep steady..........


CCR is the easiest.

slap on "bayou" or "willie and the poor boys" and play along............


it doesn't get mush easier

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BASTARD

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Derwood

i played a lot of guns n' roses when i first learned to play drums. straight forward beat, very simple fills, etc. (Steve Adler era, not Matt Sorum era)

Fly

i'll have you know..........my timing is impeccable.






here it comes Redlemon...........
































*bastard*








and pick many.........over time you'll blend the different styles and eventually have your own style.


good luck man..........and keep us posted on your progress

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BASTARD

SterlingStudios