leftturn109

is anyone else tired of going to a preformance web site forum and just reading about how this guys import is faster then all muscle cars and vice versa why cant tunners and gear heads just get along and not street race.

Scorps

LOL gotta love it


And the muscle will always win!

irseg

Because there are too many stupid import guys who think their 100 hp Honda will smoke any domestic car out there because it has stickers and a fart cannon, and there are too many stupid domestic guys who think their antiquated 150 hp 12 mpg pile of crap will beat anything because they ripped off the cats. Those dipshits make everybody look bad.

The ricers are a LOT more prevalent, though.

laconic1

Yeah, I don't even go to automotive forums for that reason. It's just as stupid as when guys go around bragging about the size of their dick. Fast is fast, slow is slow, no matter what you drive or prefer, and some people do a better job of realizing and respecting that than other people.

shakran

I agree with everything you've said except that statement. They're not more prevalent, they're just more noticible because of the visual crap they slap on their cars. I'd say the ratio of idiot import drivers to idiot domestic drivers is about 50/50. The domestic drivers just aren't as noticible. . .until they open their mouth.

leftturn109

You know whats even more annoying is that the only thing eather group says is no that doesnt work you dont know what your talking about plus everyone is an expert
pisses me off

MSD

My friends and I don't squabble over the country where a car is made. We recognize a good car when we see it, and we aren't afraid to mock crappily done work.

big_bubba

Hey irseg, to have a muscle car with 150HP is a joke--you'd have to have a 70s emissions choked GM/Ford/Mopar small block....even a freaking late '60s 225 cu. in. mopar slant six is almost at 150. And they get a lot better than 12mpg.

I sure as hell won't get much better than 12mpg when my car is done (lights, glass, etc and then go for a safety so I can get plates and drive it legally)---but find me a ricer that's only got as much as I have in my car ($3400CDN including buying it) that can beat my 300hp, 400ft-lb honda-crushing V8 and I'll lick the bottoms fo your feet.

Pain Train is right--Muscle will always win. If I cared about fuel economy, I would've bought a late model 4cyl FWD 90HP POS. If I cared about handling, I would've bought something that's light in the front end with modern suspension.

On a different note--I'm not saying this because I hate imports, even though I'm kind of biased against them. Hell I'd take a Mazda RX8, Nissan Altima, Infinity G35 etc... they're all very sweet cars that I'll likely never be priveledged to afford.

"I'd say the ratio of idiot import drivers to idiot domestic drivers is about 50/50. The domestic drivers just aren't as noticible. . .until they open their mouth."

I agree about the ratios. I dunno though..domestics are pretty noticable when they pop open the exhaust cutouts and you hear a big block v8 with open headers at five grand as a shiny noisy blur zips past you....whether it be at the strip or on the street.

Face it--street racing is a problem btu it's not going to go away. I'm not saying I'm perfect but any street racing I've done-and it's the same for most people I know that are into muscle-isn't as dangerous as it's cracked up to be. You smoke el honda off the line, smoke 'em into second gear, back off at about 20 over the speed limit, and 30 seconds later he zips by at 160 and says he beat you. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen THAT happen......

Freaking dumbasses that do that watched fast and the furious too many times. Hey guys---a drag race is traditionally supposed to be a QUARTER MILE. Not a quarter of the way across the city. I'm not saying only ricers do it, but it seems that every time I see it it's one of the torqueless plastic fwd cars doing it. Take a phone pole at a buck twenty, buddy. See how...oh...ALIVE you are afterwards.

Street racing is a problem but not as serious as is implied in the media. Race on non-busy streets with no pedestrians around and don't go crazy and you'll be just fine.

Shakran, I don't mean to sound like I was picking on you...I know you said something about not being a ricer or whatever..I'm talking about the guys with the paint that changes colors from different angles that have the 7" exhaust tips and the 20" rims that are worth more than the car on a '95 civic 4-door. Face it--they weren't meant to be performance cars.

big_bubba

Let me rephrase that. Pain Train is right...muscle will always win IN DRAG RACES. Don't wanna start another twisty argument here.

Rippley

Is it just me, or is this conversation turning into one of those things the original poster DIDN'T want it to turn in to? I don't race, I don't have a high performance car. I'm totally neutral, I love cars. Full stop.
I can appreciate a well modded car, of any type(I live in Denmark, so they're all imports ). I think its important, when you see a modded car, to try and think why the person did it?
Does he want looks and loud music for cruising/winnig shows(http://www.importtuner.com/features/0310it_civic/)?
Does he want to smoke everything out of intersections(http://www.importtuner.com/features/0405it_covercar/)?
Does he want big block rumble/torque/nostalgia/power/straightline speed(http://musclev8.freeservers.com/68shelby.htm)?
Does he want to go up into the mountains/backroads on the weekends and tear up some twisties(http://www.vishnutuning.com/parts_evo.htm)?

There are a million other reasons to tune/mod your car, these are but a few.

Now, I can relate to the urge one feels, to throttle the punk in the civic with the huge rims and what looks like a drainpipe bolted to his exhaust. But honeslt, I experience the same thing when some jackass in a poorly maintained V8 rumbles by at night, rattling my windows...

So, people who love their cars and aren't willfully abnoxious toward the rest of the world, I like, regardless their choice of brand.
People who don't take proper care of their car, and are willfully obnoxious, I hate, also regardless of their choice in brand.

I lost track of where I was going, but there it is. my $0.2

__________________
roadrazer - 300kgs, 300hp = pure fun.

krwlz

This just turned into that same auto forum you were talking about...

And Id like to differentiate between a street race and a drag, they are differant, and should be treated that way. Generaly (in my opinion) there should be turning and handing going on in a street race, not just open em up and see what happens.

On the other note... god, that big block chevy sounds good man, i sure do love it.

So does that twin turbo winding up and blowing out though...

And you realize the purpose (for a real tuner) of big rims right? Its not all about looks, its about eliminating tire roll. Which is great for hitting turns at 80. Then theres the big block with fatties, roll right over on ya. but hook right the hell up on a drag.

I guess in my opinion muscle cars lovers are tuners too... just tuning for a differant thing.

I too love them all, and after getting into one argument with a muscle car guy, I try to see both sides.

89transam

Wasent the 1980 Turbo trans am rated at like 180 hp ?

$3400 CDN huh? Thats, what , 2500 american? Buy some cheap AWD Eclipse, tear out everything thats not needed, sell all the extra stuff. Put half the money into the car and the other half twords the purchase price....I bet it would be close.

(is it 300 hp to the wheels or 300 at the flywheel, if its the previous ignore this whole paragraph)

Seems to me stock or stock new imports are pretty badass compared to old musclecars , so if you have the money why not get something better?


2002 Neon SRT4 14.2 @102 mph 2.4 4 cylinder
1969 Corvette 13.56
1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52
1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01

source

Sure, the later ones are super badass and yes, technically quicker, but those are some eliete musclecars and they only get slower from there. The engines are 3 times as big but only manage a second in a quarter mile. On the street I would bet you couldent tell a difference.

__________________
I'd rather be rich than stupid.

MSD

Best of both worlds:

Ok, I know it's asmall block, but it still puts out almost 850hp and over 650lb-ft (650/520 on pump gas with lower boost)

Scorps

Well I raced some souped up ricers in my day and when I ad my 67 Chevy Camaro SS 454 I would leave them in my dust...also had a Superchager, with the blower sticking out of the hood, with a 4 gear

Oh how I miss that car

krwlz

My uncle had the 70 Chevelle with the 454 and all I hear is stories about the shit that he pulled, and how he wishes he never sold it... I take it its the same with you?

My dads got the 67 camaro rs/ss with a 327... Im working on gettin him to put some forced induction on it, but I dont think its going to happen. He wants to mod as if he were still in the 70's keeping it authentic...

And msd... I want that engine so bad... Oh so nice and shinny...

Scorps

well when i lived out in BC with my GF and daughter and close friend of the family owns the car and let me drive it and everything....then when I moved back out east I gave it back to him...Im trying to get him to sell it or of send it out this way..but he wont let it go 3000 miles!

stingc

A second in the quarter mile is usually very noticeable. This is especially true because most muscle cars have really weak 1st gears (the tires back then would go up in smoke no matter what, so it was pointless to have deeper gears), but its great once you start moving.

Also, those 1/4 mile times were probably on tires of the day, which are crap even compared to modern walmart specials.

Why does it matter how big the engine is (at least in the US)?

Overall, though I agree that there are a lot of nice cars coming out now. I wouldn't really put the neon in that list, but I can understand why some would.

Scorps

Ya engine these days does kinda matter, if gas prices are high and you got no money

Like me!

big_bubba

As for the selling the stuf you don't need off an eclipes and using the monery for other stuff, did I mention I have an interior?

Pretty much the onyl stuf you don't need are those plastic covers under the hood and stuff like heaters and interior and other junk----but then you have a gutted car and nobody is gonna want to buy the STOCK version of stuff like that.

Hey Pain Train, that Camaro sounds sweet. As for gas prices, I may be broke, but I don't NEED to ahve a car. The bus system here is great---It's for fun.

89transam

No you implied that yours was gutted, thats why I made the comparison

__________________
I'd rather be rich than stupid.

krwlz

Now THAT sucks man. I sure wish my dad wud finish that car... Then again, he says he will let me drive it, but who knows...

From all I can gather driving a muscle car around turns fast cabn be done, but you depend on breaking them loose in the back, and pushing yourself around the corner... In all honesty, I dont think Im quite up to that.

Ill prolly just tool around campus with it,

Scorps

Oh come on you gotta get the ass end to swing out

Just practice in parking lots, so you don't look like a fool in front of the ladies

leftturn109

thats what is in my 65 valiant and i get about 15 mpg i also put non emissions head on an emissions block and got higher comprestion and i make like 165 hp 240 ftlb acording to my calculations

leftturn109

muscle car guys are "gaer heads"

krwlz

Lots and lots of practice. Got a ride in my friends fathers 64 nova last night... Bored out 355 listed at 425 horse at the engine.

He lit em up, and from where I was sittin, it looked like he had his hands full keeping the ass end behind us. It was a 5 mile ride, and most of it was at speedlimit, but between blowing out of my driveway, and my friend lightin em up to smoke out my other friends behind us, it was one of the more exciting rides Ive had.

I think Im in love...