RonPrice

PROTECTING YOUR CHEST

When a man and a woman are standing toe-to-toe arguing, what is it that the man wants? Beside a resolution to the specific issue that has led to the argument, what the man wants is to end the conflict. Conflict frightens him. Fighting is not something he knows much about. He doesn’t believe in fighting either. He watched his parents fighting, but never saw it happening in a fruitful way. He finds every sword thrust in an argument, in a fight with his wife, penetrates to the very centre of his chest, which is tender and fearful. When shouts of rage come out of the man, it means that his warriors have not been able to protect his chest. The lances have already entered and it is too late. -Ron Price with appreciation to Robert Bly, Iron John: A Book About Men, Longmead, Dorset, 1990, p.167.

Perhaps as early as mid-century1
I watched their lance and parry,
the raised voice, the anger,
the hurt, the no-one-wins-
everybody-loses-in-the-lounge-room.
It never had any appeal, but lodged
fear in my soul at the sign of a voice
lifted somewhere above middle-C.

In these years with a woman,
these thirty summers and winters,
I have not been a good fighter;
don’t even believe in it, am getting
better at avoiding it, turning the tension
off at the pass, teaching my warriors to
protect my chest, before it’s too late.

Ron Price
29 May 1999

1 I think the first serious piece of verbal abuse I would have heard would have been about 1950, at the age of six. It is quite likely that arguments of severe intensity occurred before that date in my home, but I can not recall any until we lived at 426 Seneca Street in Burlington Ontario.

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Ron Price is a retired teacher, aged 67(in 2011). He taught for 35 years and is now a writer and editor, a poet and publisher. He has been a Baha'i for 52 years(also in 2011)

Manuel Hong

I'm not sure where you are looking for a discussion to go here...I'm sorry. Your writing is good though and it certainly brought some vivid and disturbing imagery to mind. Welcome to TFP.

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Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

Master_Shake

So what does the woman want?

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You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

WillyPete

she usually just wants it to end.

He wants to end it. ie: dictate the terms upon which it finishes.

RonPrice

Sorry it has taken me some 14 months to get back to this site. I thought, when I registered, I'd be able to spend more time here. Hopefully, I will in future months. We shall see. In the meantime, I thank you for your responses. I think this piece raises questions and comments and one could discuss the implications for many an hour. I think for now--after 14 months--I'll just leave the posting and the responses as they are and post in new threads.-Ron Price, Tasmania.

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Ron Price is a retired teacher, aged 67(in 2011). He taught for 35 years and is now a writer and editor, a poet and publisher. He has been a Baha'i for 52 years(also in 2011)

Ustwo

When I stand chest to chest with a woman, I'm thinking how to put my hands on her chest, but maybe thats just me.

Interesting writing style but I can't relate as my motives and outcome in fighting with my wife are quite different

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thingstodo

I guess I don't know where this is going?

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If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

rainheart

It's sort of standard internet forum etiquette not to revive dead threads, especially when you have little to add to them. Maybe even more so if the thread was not about much to begin with. . .

thingstodo

Waaaas that comment for my benefit? I was posing a real question.

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If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

RonPrice

As long as you folks don't mind a discussion going on for years, I don't mind dropping in. The issues of conflict and the sexes I'm sure will be with us for some time.
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I came across some interest ideas from: The Emotional Life of Nations
by Lloyd deMause---Chapter 8----The Evolution of the Psyche and Society
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I'll post just one paragraph...I think it offers interesting perspectives onconflict in the family. If you enjoy this one paragraph, go to the article on the net.-Ron Price, Tasmania

HISTORY AS THE INTEGRATION OF THE SELF

Most people even today have only achieved a partial integration of the "relatively independent subselves" that recent studies show they begin constructing as infants.3 The most thorough recent study of dissociation using a sophisticated interview technique finds that "14 percent of the general public experience ‘substantial’ dissociative symptoms"4 and most of the rest of us experience lesser dissociative symptoms when triggered by situations similar to the original abuse. This may seem excessive, until one remembers that perhaps half of the adults today were sexually abused as children, that most of us were physically and emotionally abused to some extent and that helping mode parenting which respects the growth and individuation of children is everywhere still rare.

We may be surprised to discover that people in the past had their demon alters exorcised or had conversations with their various inner souls, but even today religious spirit possessions are not uncommon—a third of Americans say they have experienced other spirits in themselves and over 90 percent of us believe in and at times converse with (pray to) god alters of one sort or another.5 Even in our day-to-day personal reactions, we more often switch into alters than we like to admit: "’Mom, don’t we have any cornflakes?’ Shawn asked….Immediately the Mean alter sprang into action. ‘Screw you, Shawn! Why are you so helpless? Find something else if we don’t have any goddamn cornflakes. I’m not your fucking slave!’"6

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Ron Price is a retired teacher, aged 67(in 2011). He taught for 35 years and is now a writer and editor, a poet and publisher. He has been a Baha'i for 52 years(also in 2011)

Jinn

I'm SO FUCKING CONFUSED.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Cynthetiq

I am too. Maybe we can just talk about Paris Hilton?

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jinn

yea liek omg i heard she was crying when she came outta the courtroom and liek she said she was a changed woman and that she lerned alot

EDIT: on the thread. Ron, could you clarify what you're saying in your latest post? It's almost more cryptic than the first.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Jetée

Yeah, almost.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

The_Jazz

Ron, if you were a teacher, I feel sorry for your students. This lesson makes no sense, and you've tried 3 times in 2 years to stimulate discussion and failed miserably each time.

Perhaps you should either come clean with your agenda or stop distracting us with your nonsensical posts.

See you in another 14 months.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
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Xerxys

You might possibly want to kill me for reviving this but I think I get the drift, Ron, tell me if I'm wrong. When a man wants to settle the argument, women say he just wants to dictate the terms, but often the woman doesnt realise that the man has included various ways to resolve the conflict. We do consider sacrifice to be a big part of life. Becuase the man has reached 'A LOGICAL' conclusion first, the woman sets out to discredit him as incompetent, hence the insults.

Men (WE) dont like being abused by the people we love. Admonished we can stand, not abused. We feel betrayed, that you could use our own weaknesses against us, not neccesarily weakness, even a cheap shot hurts deeply. The lance in the chest might stand for a severe betrayal that can be acheived by only one so close to you. I think its about time we just realise that some times, women just like arguing because they are bored or are having a bad day, not neccesarily a good reason.

RonPrice

It's been another long time since I've been here at this site. In these middle years(65-75) of late adulthood, the years from 60 to 80 as some human development psychologists call them, life is very busy. I publish at over 6000 internet sites and some posts are wins and some are loses. I'll try a bit harder at this site in the months and years ahead.-Ron in Australia

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Ron Price is a retired teacher, aged 67(in 2011). He taught for 35 years and is now a writer and editor, a poet and publisher. He has been a Baha'i for 52 years(also in 2011)

Xerxys

Holy shit this was my first post! I was searching for this thread. Thanks for coming back, Mr. Price. Unfortunately I still don't understand your OP tbh.