StephenSa

If this is the wrong forum to post this in please forgive and move. Anyhoo this is related to another thread where a forum member was hit by a car while cycling to work. I too am a cyclist and quite often on public roads I am hassled. I've been run off the road, had bottles thrown at me, been cursed at and just generally treated like I had no right to the roads. What a lot of people don't realise is that it its illegal to ride a bike on the side-walk. Also a bike must travel with the flow of traffic not against. A bike is subject to the same laws as automobiles regarding traffic though bikes are not allowed on interstate highways. I always give cyclists lots of room and respect when approaching them in my car. Of course as a cyclist I guess that is to be expected. My question is how do others feel about cyclists and how do YOU react when you as a driver share the road with them?

Cadwiz

I suppose I am the same way, as I have ridden bicycles and motorcycles for a while. I give them room to manuver, witout causing a disruption in the flow of traffic. I realize that they are virtually unprotected against cars and treat them as such.

__________________
Semper Fi

raveneye

I'm also a cyclist and have been run off the road many times. Once a cop was driving by when it happened, and he turned around and pulled the guy over.

Nowadays I always stay on the sidestreets. Never again on any main roads. I've heard too many grisly stories.

I always give cyclists all the room they need.

flstf

I ride a motorcycle so I share some of the same visability problems with bikes and emphathize with them. From what I have seen though I have to say that I don't think they belong on the main roads with cars whiffing by them only 1 foot or so away.

Master_Shake

I've got no problem with cyclists, of course, I'm in a relatively suburban area. I don't know how I'd feel about those crazy bike messengers or delivery people and such in NYC or other places.

__________________
-------------
You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

StanT

I have to commute up and down a windy mountain road that is very popular with bicyclists. The road is clearly marked "cyclists-single file law applies" . There is a bicycle lane for much of the road. On weekends, it is nearly impossible to drive to town. Herds of illiterate bicyclists 3 and 4 across block the road. Given that there is a single passing zone in a 15 miles stretch it makes for regular confrontations. It is slightly better when I'm driving my motorcycle, though they swerve in front of me all the time. The physics of an 850# motorcycle vs a 20# bicycle seem obvious to me, bicyclists don't seem to get it. I've really got to question the sanity of driving 3 and 4 across around a blind turn, you really need to give drivers half a chance to miss you.

I'm perfectly willing to "share the road", but sharing goes both ways. I'll obey the laws that apply to me, bicyclists need to do the same.

sapiens

Near where I work, there is a very narrow, very busy 4 lane road (2 lanes each direction). There is no shoulder and SUVs tend to take up their entire lane. I often see students riding bicycles on the road during rush hour with long lines of cars behind them. Cars will jockey aggressively to get around the cyclists. Sometimes, cyclists will jump off the road onto a sidewalk and back onto the road after passing a few cars. Others will run lights causing cars to screech to a halt. It seems very dangerous. When I bike around the area, I take side roads. I think that some roads are inappropriate for bikers, but generally I don't have a problem with bicyclists that follow traffic laws.

f6twister

I'm with StanT. There are groups of people who go cycling a couple days every week. Not only do they violate the single file law, they usually take up the entire lane of traffic. When approached by the cops, they all complain about being harrassed and how the other drivers don't obey the laws. It never occurs to them that they are violating a number of laws themselves. It has gotten so bad that everyone involved in this situation is now on an automatic ticket rule (both drivers and cyclists) until everyone starts obeying the rules of the road.

__________________
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin

The_wall

Well I see cycling as a more practical method of transportation of shorter distances (under 5 miles at least) and think cyclists should have there own portion of the road, and people should be encouraged to walk/cycle. However I'm a hypocrite because I very easily get road rage and there are times when a cyclist is in a very inconvienant spot so I get mad at the person, but never act on it.

__________________
"We do what we like and we like what we do!"~andrew Wk

Procrastinate now, don't put off to the last minute.

projectself

i'm a cyclist (haven't owned or driven a car in a few years now) and i can tell you that on the daily i get harrassed by people. not to mention, that certain spots in town where the traffic is pretty bad, signs have even been put up that read "yield to cyclist" "caution: (bicycle symbol)", etc. and no cars ever adhere to the signs. not only that, but when i have the right of way, it's all of a sudden my fault when a car is upset about my position. i'm the "cunt" who won't "get out of the fucking way". <p>
even laws are in place that require motorists to give a cyclist ___ amount of feet, the "safe distance" law. here, it's three feet... which i don't think i've <i>ever</i> experienced.

lurkette

Precisely my sentiments. I admire cyclists - it's good exercise and an ecologically sound form of transportation. I give them their space and watch out for them. But that's very hard to do sometimes on some of our busier 2-lane roads with absolutely no shoulder. It's not a huge problem to me - a minor and infrequent inconvenience at most - but I worry about their safety. But the way our streets are set up in this city - a hodge-podge of newer streets, older country roads that have been gradually built around, sidewalks that run for 2 blocks and then stop, etc. - it's hard to find good places to cycle. I'd love to see things developed so alternative means of transportation were ore tenable.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Sweetpea

I think it's great that individuals cycle, it's good for the enviroment! I only get irritated if i see indivudals biking on roads that have No shoulder and they are literally using the road itself and going 5MPH in a 40MPH zone . . . But if they are on a designated area . . . then i think it's a good thing . . .

__________________
Having a Pet Will Change Your Life!
Looking for a great pet?! Click Here!
"I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

filtherton

In most places the road is the designated area. It is completely legal for someone to bike on nonhighway roads, and in my city, unless you're in a residential area, you have to bike on the road. Just saying.

kutulu

For the most part they don't bother me. It does, however, piss me off quite a bit when I see them run red lights.

Rlyss

I wish (some) cyclists would decide whether they are pedestrians, and stay on the sidewalk, or road-users, and stay on the road. I have no problem with them if they stick to their bike lanes and I can stick to my car lanes but when they weave in and out, have no way of signaling and don't use their arms to point, when they run a red light by weaving on to the sidewalk or nudging halfway into the intersection, that pisses me off. I think that's the real reason so many people can't stand cyclists, because if they're slow but steady then there's no problem, but when they deliberately weave around cars recklessly and never look, that's when my patience wears a little thin.

But I'm hardly going to congratulate them for exercising or for not polluting the environment. If they want to do that then it's their business, I'm not going to reach out and give a cyclist a medal. I just want to get from point A to point B and know that both cars and cyclists will stick to their lanes, obey the rules and make themselves visible and make it clear what they're intending to do.

Journeyman

I dunno if there's a single file law on the road that I most worry about, but when I see cyclists 2-3 side by side, I get pissed at them for putting *me* on the spot of having the difficulty in passing them without putting their safety at risk. The farther out I have to go, the higher the chances (even if they are still small) that I'm gonna get into a head-on collision with opposing traffic, and then they're still gonna get hurt by being in proximity to thousands of pounds of twisted metal.

1337haxor

I really did wish there was a mini lane for them though since they can slow traffic down in some areas. I don't have a problem with cyclist on the road as long as they follow the law. I've driven through the city before and cyclist give no regard to the law. Once I was minding my own business in the city driving through an intersection and some cyclist thought he could zoom across me (going through a red light). Well, he was wrong. I slammed on the brakes and my car just knocked him off his bike. He wasn't hurt, but it left my plastic front bumper with 2 holes. At the time I had the car for less then a week (>_<)

sailor

Its a survival tactic. You cant squeeze past them when they do that--meaning you cant, purposefuly or inadvertantly, squeeze them off the road. You have to get in the other lane, just like you would to pass a normal car. Many cyclists, myself included, will even ride in the middle of the lane if its a road where there is a big chance of being squeezed off or being "doored" by cars parked on the side of the road.

I try to stick to small roads as much as possible, but sometimes you cant help but get on a busier road every now and then. But trust me, Im not trying to get on busy roads to get a kick.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

skier

I think that if a cyclist is travelling slowly they should be allowed on the sidewalk. I don't believe a person on a bicycle travelling 5 mph is any danger to a pedestrian, and they would cause less problems then when they are on the road.

Fast cyclists are an "in-between" from sidewalk and road. Too dangerous on the sidewalk, to slow on the road (well mostly). When cars pass, they're more at risk for collisions, and even more so if the bicycles are two abreast, or more.

When i'm cycling, i'll stick to the side of the road as much as possible unless I'm at speed of traffic (50km/h), in which case i'll move towards the center so I can bike on a better surface.

__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

he_haha

I dont really have a problem with cyclists, I've never been boxed in by side to side riders or had a problem with passing them. They have as much a right to be on the road as any of us does in a vehicle. Cycling lanes are awesome though.

Prince

Cyclists make me feel uneasy.

Back in Europe, I got accustomed to wider sidewalks which were divided into two parts; one for the pedestrians, and one for cyclists. So, the cyclists had their own sidewalks, and kept off the roads for the most part. I saw a cyclist in regular road traffic maybe once or twice a year.

Now, here in States, or Texas anyway, it seems bicycles aren't allowed on the sidewalks, so they use the same lanes as the trucks and the SUVs. I used to love riding a bike, but haven't even seriously considered it since I found out about this.

So as someone who's not accustomed to having to watch out for cyclists except when taking a turn, I feel uneasy seeing them in traffic.

__________________
Who is John Galt?

drakers

I find it extremely annoying especially when it is rush hour, those bicyclists are such an inconvience because you can't cut them off or pass them without a good chance of hitting them. But it is there right to take that chance with the crazies in the world. Oh yeah, my title says I'm crazy. Watch out cyclists of the world. HEHE

Schwan

I'm not thrilled about them. However, I do believe in "live and let live". Thus, I think that a part of the road should be visibly marked for bicycles only, and in places where the road is not wide enough for that, there should be allowed to use the sidewalks.

braisler

This is not the way that most laws related to cycling on the road are written. I agree that more cycling specific lanes are needed. But a cyclist should not be on a sidewalk. Note that I say "cyclist", a term that I consider as applying to someone on a bike for the purpose of moving at a pace greater than 5 MPH, who is obeying traffic laws, not weaving in traffic, etc. There is a lot of difference in my mind between a cyclist and 'some guy on a bike'. Right now, the way laws are currently written in most states, if the road is not wide enough for a cyclist and a car to ride abreast safely, the whole lane can be used by the cyclist. Additionally, if there is not sufficient room for a motorist to safely pass a cyclist within a lane, it is incumbent upon the motorist to wait until a break in traffic allows them to pass in the oncoming lane of traffic, just like they would for a slower moving car.

It is very unfortunate that most states do not educate their drivers about cyclists rights and responsibilities on the road. I have been involved in this issue for some time. As a long-time cyclist, I have had my share of encounters with motorists. I have also attended numerous public safety and MTPO (Metropolitan Transportation Planning Organization) meetings that address the issue of cycling as a means of transport. Unfortunately, the prevailing interest of these meetings, is how to keep the cyclists properly aware of their responsibilities on the road. Believe me, if someone spends more than 1 hour a week on a bike, they know the drill. They have to if they want to survive. What is desparately needed is more driver education about how to behave around cyclists. If you were to give a little impromptu quiz to 10 motorists and 10 cyclists on various situations where a bike and a car might encounter on the road, I would suggest that the cyclists would score much better.

Some of the above posts are very encouraging. People suggesting that they give cyclists as wide berth as they can. Or posters who say they are glad to see cyclists making the environmentally sound transportation choice. Of course, I don't know if our shared microcosm here is in any way reflective of the sentiments of the population at large.

My two cents of rambling...

ergdork

I'm a psuedo-cyclist, have a brother and a cousing who are both pro-level racers. I'm also a commuter. I think the biggest problem most drivers (including myself) have with cyclists is when they are riding in areas where they don't have the skill to ride. Riding in/near traffic is not easy and isn't necessarily for Joe Sixpack on a leisure ride. I've certainly watched cyclists pass me in my car and see them wiggling very unsteadily through traffic. Or even worse, a family on a leisure ride down a steep windy road (routes 1 and 92 in and out of Half Moon Bay, CA come to mind) backing up traffic for a quarter mile. Scares me.

I guess my basic opinion is that it falls down to the simple concept of respect. Drivers need to respect cyclists and give the plenty of space to be safe, but at the same time cyclists need to respect those cars around them and yield when they are obstructing. As a parallel, I believe there is a law in CA that says a car that is slowing more than 5 cars behind it must pull over. The same should be true for cyclists. It doesn't really matter what your vehicle is. Be safe, courteous, respectful and aware of your own abilities. Drivers need to keep eyes open for all smaller vehicles - ie a compact car if you are an SUV, or a bike, or a motorcycle for everyone!

I've certainly been disrespectful from both sides and feel bad about both. Share the road!

Powderedmaggot

"Cylists are an inconvenience", "they slow me down." To people with that attitude I extend a big hearty "FUCK YOU!" I pay taxes just like you do. I should be able to ride on the roads without having some asshole run me into the ditch, or pass within inches of my shoulder. I live up a narrow, windy 2 lane road, I keep to the side of the road but I do not ride in the gravel to allow people to pass me and get home to thier television sets more quickly.

I had one driver who continually passed by me extreemly close so I decided to do something about it. I took her plate umber and called the cops. As I suspected, it did fuck all so I went to plan B. I attached an orange flag to the end of a fiberglass rod, and attached it to the front fork/rack on my bike so that it extended 3' to the left side of my bike at about 2 1/2 feet from the ground. I rode home after work and sure as shit she came whippin' by really close. Whap, she hit the flag and honked and fingered me. So I took it to the final step I attached a 5 pound weight to the rod and supported it so it would not droop. Next day, WHAM, the lead weight smashed her headlight and did a bit of other damage. Now she gives me more room but still gives me the finger. I laugh every time I see her.

stevie667

I cycle to and from work everyday, about 11 miles-ish, and i do try and avoid the busy times at possible, but some drivers seem to think that because you don't have an engine, you have no right to be on the road.
I wear a big Hi-Viz, have my lights on, even during the day, but still, some people are complete morons.
Granted, i can be a little bit of a git at times, but thats usually after i've had a hard days work, and i really can't be arsed, but i still obey the traffic rules, and try not to get myself run off the road, but still...

Sorry, you can see my ride home wasn't that good today.


I do wish that people would pay more respect to cyclists, we have every right to be on the roads as people in cars.

StanT

In my neighborhood, the bicycle laws are very specific. "Single file law" means just that. Cyclists must ride within 1 foot of the shoulder and cannot ride 2 across unless no car is visible for 300'. There is a 15 mile stretch with a single section that has 300' visibility and it is also a passing zone. I also ride a bicycle, but there isn't a chance in hell I would ride one there, it's a dangerous place for cyclists and cars to coexist. Also note, that this road doesn't go anywhere. Any cyclists are out for recreation, not commuting (not that that matters). I expect cyclists to obey the law. I'll pass 4' from the shoulder, if you swerve wide it's your fault, not mine. If you are 2 across around a blind corner, you can expect a close call and a finger. I don't mind cyclist endangering their own lives, but when they choose to disregard the law, they endanger mine, as well.

braisler

That made me laugh out loud in my office. I feel your frustration, Powdered. I never understand why a motorist in a cozy climate-controlled cushioned car can be frustrated with the delay from a cyclist fighting his way through cold or wet or worse. Commuter cyclists are the best! I was one for years but have since gone to carpooling with my wife. Now that we work at the same location, it doesn't make sense for her to drive the car while I ride my bike to the exact same location. Maybe when the weather is more favorable, I can convince her to commute in with me by bike 1 or 2 days a week.

fuzyfuzer

i make sure to try and give bikers protection such as when i hit a bust 4 way stop and they need to go through i make sure they get through before me because the divers in a St. Louis are assholes. (here turn signals have nothing to do with asking for space, here they mean he wants over, everyone pack it together and run him off the road) i am also a biker but i don't go out when there is traffic so i get up at 5:00 am on the weekends ride about fifty each day so i see plenty of problems with bikes and cars

__________________
"The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited"

"Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt

astrahl

As "the wife" I'd like to assert that I DID commute by bike back in grad school in FL, but now in the snow and rain of Kentucky with a job I have to dress up for, I can't ride a bike. My darling husband makes it sound like I'm this car-loving nazi, when, in truth, I am more of a car-hating, tree-hugging, vegetarian.

As to the "one foot from the sidewalk" BS, go out to a road and look at the crap that gathers there. First of all, that is the gutter. You can't ride a bike in the gutter. 2, with all the car-related garbage at that margin, a cyclist cannot safely ride 15-20 mph there.

StanT

I don't write the laws, I just try to obey them. The "I'm above the law" mentality is a big part of the problem, whether you are behind the wheel or behind a handlebar. Things are a bit different up in the mountains, we are probably talking apples and oranges here.
This is a picture of the road that is my primary commute.
Note the blind curves. Also note that the speed limit is 35mph. A cyclist in the middle of the lane doing 2mph uphill around a blind curve, doesn't stand a chance when a car comes around the corner. The driver of the car doesn't have a chance to miss them. I've been hit on my motorcycle by cyclists that cannot control their lane usage while going downhill. If you can't control your vehicle and obey the single file law, then you ought to be riding in the flatlands where the law is different.

astrahl

StanT
You have a good point. I never drive around blind corners how the car makers show in commercials, I always slow down and assume there might be a hunk of fallen rock in the middle of the road ahead.

BTW, is that your newfie?
I ... like ... Dawgs! (obscure)

StanT

Yep, her name is Picabo.

caz

No offense, but I am actually one of those angry drivers that may have told you that you are #1 a couple of times. I was not aware that bicycling on the sidewalk was illegal. That seems kind of off to me. Now that I am informed I definitely have a new perspective on the situation.

Rodney

I have no problem with cyclists who actually know how to behave in traffic. In this area, that means:

Stick to the bike lane or right-hand shoulder
Ride single-file if you're in a group
When making a left turn, either ride out into the left lane or left-turn lane and signal, or stop at the corner, dismount and walk the bike across.
Stop at all stop signs and red lights.

About 50 percent of bicyclists follow these rules; they sometimes fudge on the stoppin g at stop lights, but I'll grant them that if it is a moderately quiet intersection, if they slow to a walk before entering the intersection, are vigilant and ready to stop, and "take their turn" crossing the intersection according to vehicle code rules.

The other 50 percent -- they can't decide whether to act like cars or pedestrians. You don't know what they're going to do next. I have never run anybody off the road, but my car has been hit by bicyclists -- twice! One time, my car was at a complete stop. I think bicyclists need to pass a test if they're going to ride in heavy traffic, just like cars.

As for riding two-abreast, there's no excuse for that. When you're on a road, you have all the obligations of any vehicle, no matter what you're riding.

Bicycling on the sidewalk is _not_ illegal down here, unless posted. Some streets are so dangerous and have so little shoulder that it's only safe way to travel. But what _is_ dangerous are bikes who switch back and forth from sidewalk to street; again, as a motorist I have no idea what's going to happen next.

astrahl

Rodney,
I would suggest that you assume the bike is coming into traffic. You may not think it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, but riding a bike 20-25 mph is most certainly NOT safe on a sidewalk. If the person is cruising along at 5mph, then fine, but you cannot safely navigate concrete seams and ramps and pedestrians going better than 10 or 12mph.

shakran

I have no problem with bikes as long as they aren't on a road that has a parallel bike path right next to it. Then I get annoyed.

Also, the ones that ride against traffic are idiots, as are the ones that think because they're on a bike they don't have to obey traffic rules. The stop signs apply to them too, and it wouldn't hurt them, considering they're 100 pounds up against 2 tons of car, to signal what they were going to do from time to time

thingstodo

While I agree that some roads aren't the best for bikes I also think motorists should take a minute to read their driver's manual. It clearly states that bikers have a right to a certain percentage - usually the right 1/3 - of the right lane of any road.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

thingstodo

You might want to bone up on your rules.

A biker never has an obligation to walk a bike across a road. However, they are complete idiots if they don't use the bike lane when there is one!! Also, a biker doesn't need to ride on the shoulder. And check out my previous post here on who owns what portion of the road.

Sorry if I sound pissed, but you and every other know-it-all needs to spend a minute with your driver's handbook and make sure you are clear on what the rules are. I'd love to be able to take my manual with me and debate every driver that gives me crap on the road. I know and follow the rules because my safety is at stake. I just wish everyone would do the same.

And I agree with you 100% that bikers should follow all the rules.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.