New York red-tailed hawks evicted from Fifth Avenue building - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Fremen · 12-08-2004, 07:45 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6677325

Quote:

The Associated Press
Updated: 8:09 p.m. ET Dec. 8, 2004NEW YORK - Pale Male, the New York City hawk, was evicted from his nest, and the flap has already begun.

So said aggrieved bird-watchers and neighbors after workmen raised a scaffold to the top of a Manhattan apartment Tuesday and ripped out the famous red-tailed hawk’s nest.

The act appeared to end an urban drama that has fascinated bird-watchers over the past nine years, as Pale Male and a succession of mates raised 25 chicks — the last trio of fledglings last June — on the narrow 12th floor ledge over Fifth Avenue.

The hawks also achieved a measure of world fame, through television specials and a book, “Red-Tails in Love.” On summer weekends, crowds have gathered at the Central Park boat pond to observe them.

“I am outraged,” said a teary-eyed Jane Corin, who lives across the street. “That building has been very good about this until now. It’s heartbreaking.”

Pale Male — so named for his whitish plumage — and his mate, Lola, were nowhere to be seen as the nest was removed, nor were any of their latest offspring.

“The hawks will come back and find the nest is gone,” said bird hobbyist Lincoln Karim, an engineer at Associated Press Television News who in summer often lets people view the birds through his giant telephoto camera. “How could these people do this?”

City Parks Commissioner Adrian Benape said he was consulting with state officials to determine who removed the nest and whether any law or regulation had been broken. Red-tailed hawks are not legally protected, he said but the loss of the birds would hurt because “they limit the rodent population in an area where natural predators were absent for a long time.”

A doorman at the building said it was managed by Brown Harris Stevens, a prominent Manhattan real estate firm. At the company office, an employee declined to comment.

This really twists my tail!
Why in the hell would they order the removal of their nest?
Do they think the nest was damaging their brick building?

Maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture here.
Can someone give me some reasons the hawks needed to be evicted?
Are they a detriment to the building?

I sure hope they can find a safe place to 'light until they can build a new nest.

If I'm not mistaken, one of these hawks was shown in a scene in the movie 'The Bone Collector'.

Btw, anyone know if birds have a back-up nest?

maleficent · 12-08-2004, 07:50 PM

That is just so wrong... 9 years should give the birds squatters rights or something... They weren't hurting anyong ( I don't think they attacked anyone) and they probably kept the rat population down. Not to mention they are spectacular species of birds, and you have to admire a bird that can raise 20 chicks in NYC... Good for him...

I hope he has a new home in Central Park or somewhere nice to go to... Shame on the building.

martinguerre · 12-08-2004, 08:27 PM

there's a perigrine nest in downtown mpls...and it's one of the great parts of the city. if you're lucky, you get to watch them take out pidgeons. at VERY high speeds. some people get a little squemish about it, but it's pretty awesome to see real nature taking place in the middle of the skyline.

cyrnel · 12-08-2004, 09:10 PM

Was the nest situated above a door? They might have left a deposit in the wrong place, or on the wrong person. Still it's a bitch. I hope whoever's "better to ask forgiveness" order gets them a very painful new orifice.

Jonsgirl · 12-08-2004, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

there's a perigrine nest in downtown mpls...and it's one of the great parts of the city. if you're lucky, you get to watch them take out pidgeons. at VERY high speeds. some people get a little squemish about it, but it's pretty awesome to see real nature taking place in the middle of the skyline.

That was the reason they took the nest down. The hawks were dropping pigeion carcasses on the sidewalk in front of the building. And yeah, that's gross, but this was completely wrong.
And the fact that they don't know who did it?? What's up with that?

Did you know Mary Tyler Moore lived in this building?

whocarz · 12-08-2004, 11:23 PM

I think it's silly that people get all up in arms about a bird, but don't give a fuck for the poor homeless bum in the alleyway. Do the people that feel outraged and speak out sleep better at night because they did so?

cyrnel · 12-09-2004, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whocarz

I think it's silly that people get all up in arms about a bird, but don't give a fuck for the poor homeless bum in the alleyway.

If the post had been about a family who'd had their home & belongings destroyed by some institutional nitwit, I bet you'd see replies of a similar flavor. (oh wait, that was the story)

When a powerful institution pulls the carpet out from beneath the innocent, especially without apparent benefit, it's very easy to find offense regardless of the victim's species. Sometimes this feeling is shared by many, and public outrage has been enough to right the wrongs. Other times the problems are institutionalized, well masked or defended, and we only have the power to provide bandaid handouts. If what we do makes us feel better, good. Maybe we'll turn that into something even better next time. If it provides real benefit, that's even better.

Human homelessness is a complex issue, certainly as deserving of concern. We do what we can to the degree we aren't petrified to inaction. There's that added aspect that can be intimidating. Potential failure, financial and possibly mental. Nothing to lose. It doesn't fit with western society's economic model of look good, have offspring, make money, buy stuff. Could things go that wrong for me? I've had my share of "what to do" moments at stop light encounters.

If you meant to remind us we should keep tabs close to home, I think you're right. 'tis the season.

Stream of consciousness... Dang it's late.

Redlemon · 12-09-2004, 06:45 AM

Here's the "reason":

Quote:

The building's attorney, Aaron Schmulewitz, said the nest was 50 square feet and that the co-op's engineer found it was a hazard that probably violated city regulations.

"Portions of the nest had been falling onto the street, and carcasses of animals had been dropped by the hawk onto the street below," Schmulewitz said.

The co-op board, which sources say is headed by developer Richard Cohen, husband of CNN newswoman Paula Zahn, contacted the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which said the co-op could get rid of the nest as long as there were no chicks or eggs inside.

Neither Cohen nor Zahn could be reached for comment.

Parks Commissioner Adrian Benepe agreed the demolition was legal - but sad. Others - including actress Mary Tyler Moore, who lives in the birds' building - were outraged.

source: New York Daily News - City News - Homeless hawks
However, we also have:

Quote:

A lawyer for the co-op, Aaron Shmulewitz, said in an interview that the nest had been taken away on the advice of the building's engineer, who concluded that it violated city health and safety laws. But a spokeswoman for the Department of Buildings, Ilyse Fink, responded with skepticism.

"They are trying to use city regulations as a rationale," Ms. Fink said. "If there was a valid public safety concern, we wouldn't say, 'Take the nest down.' We'd say, 'Make it safe.' "

The New York Times > New York Region > Newly Homeless Above 5th Ave., Hawks Have Little to Build On

martinguerre · 12-09-2004, 08:02 AM

that's the thing...they can easily make boxes desgned for raptors to build nests in...with a couple bucks worth of plywood the problem would have been solved.

shame on the US Fish and Wildlife for not making that their suggestion. boo.

vox_rox · 12-09-2004, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

that's the thing...they can easily make boxes desgned for raptors to build nests in...with a couple bucks worth of plywood the problem would have been solved.

shame on the US Fish and Wildlife for not making that their suggestion. boo.

That is the wholes tory right there, and what it comres down to in the long runb is cost. But what is the cost? What price to we pay when we take urbanization to mean total absence of wildlife.

I think about how people complain about noisy magpies, or destructive squirrels, or even, yes, littering birds of prey. But when I walk through these neighbouthoods, I hear loud lawnmowwers, litter and excess garbage that end up filling landfills. My god, who is the real pest here?

I would treasure having a hawk nest outside my house, and if I had to clean up after that animal, or construct a shelter for it so that it doesn't "soil" the beautiful and amazing fucking city sidewalk below, that's what I'd do.

But you know, removal is cheaper and easier, and we are a goddamn lazy and destructive species anyway, so it better fits our nature anyway.

Sad story, all involved should be ashamed, as should we all.

Peace,

Pierre

skier · 12-09-2004, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

there's a perigrine nest in downtown mpls...and it's one of the great parts of the city. if you're lucky, you get to watch them take out pidgeons. at VERY high speeds. some people get a little squemish about it, but it's pretty awesome to see real nature taking place in the middle of the skyline.

Have one in downtown edmonton as well and saw one take out a pidgeon. It was SO cool.

Nefir · 12-09-2004, 09:25 PM

I don't believe it... every time I'd visit Central Park, to rollerblade, or just take pictures, I always see a huge crowd gathered around a set of telescopes, watching their nest... It felt good that such interesting activities were going on in the middle of an urban city..

But now with the nest gone, that part of Central Park will be affected as well... No longer will I see crowds of bird-watchers and curious passer-bys... I guess I must now cherish the moments I experienced, in a time when there was just a tiny bit more common sense left in the world.

Fremen · 12-09-2004, 09:42 PM

Here's an update on the story.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/st...gion-apnewyork

Quote:

City Hawks evicted from Fifth Avenue nest trying to return

By VERENA DOBNIK
Associated Press Writer

December 8, 2004, 6:28 PM EST

NEW YORK -- They can't go home again, but two world-famous hawks booted from their Fifth Avenue nest were trying on Wednesday to do just that.

"I heard the cry of a hawk, I looked up and I saw Lola, the female, soaring up Fifth Avenue," said Parks Commissioner Adrian Benepe, who visited the former site of the nest atop a posh apartment building where Mary Tyler Moore also lives.

Across the avenue, Lola's mate, Pale Male, could be seen in a Central Park tree.

"They were discombobulated, flying around in an agitated way," Benepe said. Lola was circling her former nest at the Fifth Avenue building, carrying twigs to try to rebuild it. Later, her mate was seen perched in the tree, with a pigeon he had caught.

The urban drama started Tuesday, in the rain, when workmen raised a scaffold to the top of the building and tore out the nest that lay over an arched cornice, anchored by spikes originally intended to keep pigeons from depositing their droppings there. The workers removed the spikes too.

For the past nine years, thousands of birdlovers have flocked to the nest on the 12th floor ledge that's been home to Pale Male, so named for his whitish plumage. There, he fathered 25 chicks with a succession of mates _ the last three fledglings in June.

The Fifth Avenue hawks gained fame through television specials and a book, "Red-Tails in Love."

The raptors are no strangers to city life, but they normally nest in trees, and there is no previous record of a pair taking up permanent residence on a high-rise building.

The birds are not merely a spectacle of nature, said Alex Matthiessen, executive director of the Riverkeeper environmental organization. They are natural predators, helping limit the rat population in Central Park.

Bird-watchers and neighbors reacted with anger and dismay at the nest's destruction, apparently on orders of the building's co-op board.

"What strikes me is the selfishness of a small group of residents who are scarcely affected, but have robbed thousands of people, including children, of the pleasure of these magnificent birds, right by Central Park," said Matthiessen. "These animals are a wonderful show of how nature can exist in the city. This was a violent, disruptive act."

But there was not much either parks authorities or environmentalists could do: Unless there are hatching eggs or small chicks in a nest, it is not illegal to remove it from private property.

The building is managed by the prominent Manhattan firm Brown Harris Stevens Property Management Services, which issued a statement Wednesday saying that they do not own the property and had acted "on behalf of the coooperative building owners in a management capacity. ... The building researched and carried out the removal of the nest during an inactive period as a safety precaution."

Benepe said he hopes residents of some neighboring building on Fifth Avenue might erect their own anti-pigeon spikes, perhaps luring Pale Male and his mate to build a new nest.

"Hopefully, there will be a more receptive welcoming board," Benepe said. "What I'd say to apartment owners is, you're contributing to nature and to the quality of life for not just humans but for animals too."

_____P>

On the Net:

Pale Male site: http://www.palemale.com

flat5 · 12-10-2004, 08:00 AM

Perhaps some angled plexiglass (sp?) under the nest area into a bucket would have
collected any droppings from the nest. I wonder how messy they were. Maybe less than the pigeons they killed.

cyrnel · 12-15-2004, 05:05 AM

"Evicted Hawks to Return to NYC Perch
Wednesday, December 15, 2004

NEW YORK — Two celebrated red-tailed hawks whose eviction from their nest high atop a chic Manhattan building sparked protests from bird watchers will be allowed to rebuild their home in the same spot." ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141553,00.html

Fremen · 12-15-2004, 10:37 AM

Thanks for the great update, cyrnel.

I hope they follow through with their plans and actually rebuild the pigeon spikes.
Then it's up to the hawks...

ICER · 12-15-2004, 10:46 AM

This reminds me of what my environmental science teacher use to say

"No matter how much man destroys, removes, or pollutes. Nature will always find a balance. The question is. Can man live the balance? Or will nature destroy, remove or pollute man?"

He was kind of a dark person. But he does have a point.

12-08-2004, 07:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	That is just so wrong... 9 years should give the birds squatters rights or something... They weren't hurting anyong ( I don't think they attacked anyone) and they probably kept the rat population down. Not to mention they are spectacular species of birds, and you have to admire a bird that can raise 20 chicks in NYC... Good for him... I hope he has a new home in Central Park or somewhere nice to go to... Shame on the building. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

12-08-2004, 08:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	there's a perigrine nest in downtown mpls...and it's one of the great parts of the city. if you're lucky, you get to watch them take out pidgeons. at VERY high speeds. some people get a little squemish about it, but it's pretty awesome to see real nature taking place in the middle of the skyline. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

12-08-2004, 11:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	I think it's silly that people get all up in arms about a bird, but don't give a fuck for the poor homeless bum in the alleyway. Do the people that feel outraged and speak out sleep better at night because they did so? __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

12-09-2004, 08:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	that's the thing...they can easily make boxes desgned for raptors to build nests in...with a couple bucks worth of plywood the problem would have been solved. shame on the US Fish and Wildlife for not making that their suggestion. boo. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

12-09-2004, 09:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
Nefir Junkie Location: Louisville, KY	I don't believe it... every time I'd visit Central Park, to rollerblade, or just take pictures, I always see a huge crowd gathered around a set of telescopes, watching their nest... It felt good that such interesting activities were going on in the middle of an urban city.. But now with the nest gone, that part of Central Park will be affected as well... No longer will I see crowds of bird-watchers and curious passer-bys... I guess I must now cherish the moments I experienced, in a time when there was just a tiny bit more common sense left in the world. __________________ You do not use a Macintosh, instead you use a Tandy Kompressor break your glowstick, Kompressor eat your candy Kompressor open jaws, Kompressor release ants Kompressor watch you scream, Because Kompressor does not dance

12-08-2004, 09:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Was the nest situated above a door? They might have left a deposit in the wrong place, or on the wrong person. Still it's a bitch. I hope whoever's "better to ask forgiveness" order gets them a very painful new orifice.

12-10-2004, 08:00 AM	#14 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	Perhaps some angled plexiglass (sp?) under the nest area into a bucket would have collected any droppings from the nest. I wonder how messy they were. Maybe less than the pigeons they killed.

12-15-2004, 05:05 AM	#15 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	"Evicted Hawks to Return to NYC Perch Wednesday, December 15, 2004 NEW YORK — Two celebrated red-tailed hawks whose eviction from their nest high atop a chic Manhattan building sparked protests from bird watchers will be allowed to rebuild their home in the same spot." ... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141553,00.html

12-15-2004, 10:37 AM	#16 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	Thanks for the great update, cyrnel. I hope they follow through with their plans and actually rebuild the pigeon spikes. Then it's up to the hawks... __________________ Google

12-15-2004, 10:46 AM	#17 (permalink)
ICER Chilled to Perfection Location: Dallas, TX	This reminds me of what my environmental science teacher use to say "No matter how much man destroys, removes, or pollutes. Nature will always find a balance. The question is. Can man live the balance? Or will nature destroy, remove or pollute man?" He was kind of a dark person. But he does have a point. __________________ What's the difference between congress and a penitentiary? One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers and threats to society. The other is for housing prisoners. ~~David Letterman