What to do, what to do? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ElwoodBlues · 12-14-2003, 09:28 PM

Hoooolllly Shit. This whole situation just got really nuts

I just extracted this from her. OK. Guy B, is gay. Guy B made my friend his bargaining point so he could do shit to Guy A. He would say "hey, I'm supposed to be watching out for the girl, but if you let me blow you, I'll let you finger her"

Oh. My God. FUCKING SCUM

Pragma · 12-14-2003, 09:36 PM

I agree with Craven Morehead. The whole "vow of silence" thing is like what child molestor's use (It's our little secret, let's not tell anyone else). Doesn't fucking make it right.

Walk up to the two guys, talk to them, and say "I know what you did, and I'll be watching. Don't ever do it again." - or something close to that. Don't pick a fight, but warn them. That way they know that they can't just get away with it with no consequences.

Doing silly shit like slashing tires won't accomplish anything in the long run, and it DEFINITELY won't discourage them from future sexual assault. Vandalism != vengeance.

12-15-2003, 11:13 AM

I can see you are a true, caring friend. The only thing you can do is be there for her and give her advice and let her know your feelings. This is something that happened to her, so unfortunately you need to leave it in her hands. There is not much you can do about it unless she is willing also. It's sad to see that she doesn't want to do anything about it- what she really needs is self-confidence. Just keep doing what you're doing- but meddling or pushing will make matters worse if she is not willing to do anything about the situation. It disturbs me about those guys- especially being sober- but it's out of your hands. I hope that she comes around and makes a wise decision or it will keep happening.

water_boy1999 · 12-15-2003, 12:38 PM

So, clearly it seems that the guys are "assholes" no matter what happened at the party. I am sorry, but I have been to a ton of college parties and I find it hard to believe that these guys weren't drinking. IMO, she says they weren't drinking in order to build her case. Perhaps she was not forced to give a hand job or was not forced to get finger banged. Maybe, just maybe she had asked or given the impression that she wanted it. Perhaps she did enjoy what was happening when she was intoxicated, but afterwards felt remorse at her actions. So, she was irresponsible by being drunk and under the influence of a powerful drug. Does this mean we automatically criminalize the guys? What if they were drunk and didn't have all of their senses as well? The reason I think this is because I have been to many parties before and have been very drunk. I too have messed around with strange women who were intoxicated. It happens people!!! I am sick of seeing people so quick to judge the guys in this type of situation when it could have been completely controlled by the woman. So, these guys tried to get in her pants. What if she gave them every indication that she wanted them to? Imagine if you will........two attractive guys are sitting in the corner *drinking* at a party. Along comes a beautiful woman who proceeds to flirt with both gentlemen. They resume their conversations and flirting in private, where she makes advances on both men. (use your imagination from there) All I am saying is just because she claims that this all happened, doesn't mean we should be so quick to judge. It could be an attempt for her to get attention. It could be a way for her to feel better about herself since she was drunk and high on meds. It could be that these two guys are the victims. I have been in several situations where I was high, and was with my best friend Kevin......two seperate times we were hanging with a waitress we worked with and she flat out told us she wanted us to fuck her at the same time. Never went anywhere at all, but the fact of the matter remains that some women, even at a young age, are sexually minded and are looking for two men to have sex with.

In addition, why was she drinking while on meds? And, why did she not have friends there to keep an eye on her? I am amazed that people are so quick to pass judgement on these two guys when they might want to consider the actions of the girl as well.

Now, before I get ripped a new asshole, let me clarify. I don't think there is ever any justification for rape or sexual assault if that was truly the case. I think men who commit crimes like this should have their nuts cut off. Seriously. However, if there is mutual agreement and sexual advances on both sides, then there is nothing wrong with experimenting with the opposite sex. It's just wrong when it is believed to be mutual, then the guy gets accused of rape because she has some insecurities.

lightning · 12-15-2003, 01:42 PM

You know several things are obvious
One: What happened to your friend was wrong (for several reasons)

Two: She is not going to the cops, and its doubtful if it would even help

Three: This horrible evening could scar you friend for a long long time on many levels

Four: There are several things you have said that show this situation is one of many indicators that your friend may have some deeper problems (not getting taken advantage of, but being in a state of intoxication that keeps her from being in control)

You should encourage your friend to seek professional counseling.
This would help her work through the trauma of the evening you mentioned and also help her begin to evaluate some of her other issues (such as drinking, drugs, poor choices, etc.)

You might even go with her to help give her courage to follow through with telling everything.

Tirian · 12-15-2003, 03:41 PM

1: I agree with all the suggestions for asking her to seek pro help.

2: I think past that you should do nothing more than be supportive, a friend, and a listener.

shakran · 12-15-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redravin40
Some other ideas....

Print up some flyers and post them in the area warning woman not to spend time alone with these two guys.

Print up letterhead from a law office that says they are being sued.

Mmm. And then he gets the pants sued off him for libel, practicing law without a license (yes, he can be charged for that if he does the law office letterhead trick), and several other charges.

Listen, what the Alphabet friends did to her is dispicable and I have no patience for people who take advantage of a drunk person for any reason.

On the other hand, I have no patience for people who 1) KNOW they're on medication which has side effects, 2) KNOWINGLY drink until drunk (it's easy to stop, people. I have NEVER been drunk because I don't WANT to be drunk. Unless someone's got you tied up and hooked up to a vodka I.V., you can control whether or not you get drunk), then 3) get all mad when they do stupid things that they shouldn't be doing and that they wouldn't have done if sober.

I find it incredible that if you run over a kid while drunk, you don't get to say that you were drunk and therefore not responsible for any of it, but if you make out while drunk, you can abdicate all responsibility for YOUR actions.

If you don't want to be groped while you're drunk, then don't get drunk. Period.

No, the two guys shouldn't have done that. Then again, the girl shouldn't have all but put up a neon sign begging for it to happen either. She knew she'd be drinking long before she even got there. She knew she was on drugs. Unless she's a complete moron, she knew not to mix drugs and alcohol. Unless she's a complete moron, she knew it wasn't legal for her to drink. And, unless she's a complete moron, she knew that she would be more vulnerable if she lost control of herself by getting drunk, yet she did it anyway. I'm tired of people refusing to take any responsibility for their own actions. What she should be saying (and it almost sounds like she might be saying it to herself) is "gee, I really screwed that one up. I wish they hadn't done that but after all it is partially my fault that it happened. Maybe next time I'll be smart enough to stay sober in situations like that, and it won't happen again."

ElwoodBlues · 12-15-2003, 07:17 PM

To clarify a few points

1. The guys had been drinking before she got there, by the time this happened they were sobering up

2. She didn't in any way act like she wanted this...the whole time she was crying, and whimpering, and trying to get away, even thought she couldn't even sit up on her own. She in no way gave them the impression she wanted this

water_boy1999 · 12-15-2003, 07:38 PM

elwoodblues43, I respect the fact that you are standing up for your friend. However, it is her "drunk" word against yours. She could recall all of the details of the incident, yet was too drunk to even sit up of fight off her attackers. When I am that drunk, I usually can't remember shit!

Not saying it didn't happen, nor am I defending these guys in any way, but just suppose she is trying to cover up for a mistake that she made by implicating these guys? I am not tryng to piss you off, but what if a girl was accusing you of something that was completely consentual and innocent? I am just trying not to burn these guys at the stake in the event the story is slightly skewed on her part.

BooRadley · 12-15-2003, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
That's what you get for getting drunk and high.

Sounds to me like she probably had regrets after she sobered up, but who cares. She let herself get drunk and fucked up. What's she gonna do if she does go to the police... Tell them she was high and drunk and jerked a guy off and now regrets it so lock his ass up? Gimme a break.

I agree wholeheartedly with sixate.

I'm not trying to criminalize your friend elwood, but this is a
great "boy cries wolf" case, or in this case "Girl has regrets, yells rape". I am going by your secondhand information alone, which comes from someone who was "too intoxicated" to know what was going on but still has all memory of what was happening ( wich I know is bullshit ).

I have thrown a dozen parties. I have honestly seen a girl go into a party, take someone by the hand and lead him to a bedroom ( this guy is so drunk he falls over twice going into the bedroom... he drank a fifth of goldschlager in a two hour period ) fool around with him and THEN try to say he was forcing himself upon her. This same guy left the bedroom after 5 minutes alone in there with her and puked in the toilet for almost 2 hours straight. He couldn't force himself off the floor, much less on a girl who had two shots of vodka in a 3 hour period. Her best friend ( a female also) was there, and drinking, and she called the girl who cried rape full of shit. There were a dozen people there ( 4 totally sober ) who agreed that she is full of shit, so nothing bad ever happened to my friend.

RAPE IS A SERIOUS ACCUSATION. Make damn sure you got some proof. Otherwise, your ass is grass when the accused starts countersuing for slander. And you will lose, as you weren't there and your 2ndhand testimony is heresay and inadmissable as evidence. And since she's not getting involved, then you will have no proof whatsoever. And she WONT get involved.

1. She made the decision to get drunk.
2. She could have left when everyone else was leaving. Surely someone would have gave her a ride, especially if a group of girls was leaving.
3. She is telling you her side of the story. I know of very few people who are completely honest about anything, especially when they are filled with regret. And if she was as intoxicated as she claims, she wouldn't be able to remember anything at all. Trust me, I've seen girls capable of being coherant and resisting even when they were totally slobbering drunk and high. Your friend must not have much of a self-preservation instinct... or is exaggerating. If she's had abusive relationships in the past, then I guarentee her self-preservation instinct is not at fault.

Noone deserves to be "raped" but I'm almost certain this is not a case of it based on the information that has been presented in this thread. You will probably choose to believe otherwise, and I don't blame you, as I'm a random person on the internet. I still think you should consider my points very seriously.

Recommend she gets counseling anyway as she has other issues which need cleared up. BTW: You are not a psychologist, are you? Don't try to play one.

Don't be a vigilante either, you should have no stake in this. You are not her boyfriend , although you may want to be. You have no extenuating circumstances that would justify your vigilante actions. You have no protection from the law for doing anything to accused criminals anyway, but you might have extenuating cirumstances if she was your significant other . You will suffer criminal penalties if you engage in such, and they will catch you.

SiN · 12-16-2003, 03:21 AM

hrm....shitty situation indeed.

my advise?

1. do whatever you can to convince your female friend that she NEEDS counseling. not just for this, but to help her fix whatever's causing her to be such a 'victim'.

2. the guys - assholes, yes. and we can be 99% certain this won't be the last time they're asses, to her or someone's else.
not sure what you can really do about this tho, other than try and get the word out so they have a bad reputation?

and my general opinion onnit - i don't think she 'deserved' it, but definitely has her part of responsibility.

i wish you (and her) luck.

12-14-2003, 09:28 PM	#41 (permalink)
ElwoodBlues Psycho Location: Massachusetts	Hoooolllly Shit. This whole situation just got really nuts I just extracted this from her. OK. Guy B, is gay. Guy B made my friend his bargaining point so he could do shit to Guy A. He would say "hey, I'm supposed to be watching out for the girl, but if you let me blow you, I'll let you finger her" Oh. My God. FUCKING SCUM __________________ I think Pringles initial intention was to make tennis balls. But on the day that the rubber was supposed to show up, a big truckload of potatoes arrived. But Pringles is a laid back company. They said "Fuck it. Cut em up." -Mitch Hedberg, '68-'05 Bauer's the man.

12-14-2003, 09:36 PM	#42 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	I agree with Craven Morehead. The whole "vow of silence" thing is like what child molestor's use (It's our little secret, let's not tell anyone else). Doesn't fucking make it right. Walk up to the two guys, talk to them, and say "I know what you did, and I'll be watching. Don't ever do it again." - or something close to that. Don't pick a fight, but warn them. That way they know that they can't just get away with it with no consequences. Doing silly shit like slashing tires won't accomplish anything in the long run, and it DEFINITELY won't discourage them from future sexual assault. Vandalism != vengeance. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

12-15-2003, 12:38 PM	#44 (permalink)
water_boy1999 Fly em straight! Location: Above and Beyond	So, clearly it seems that the guys are "assholes" no matter what happened at the party. I am sorry, but I have been to a ton of college parties and I find it hard to believe that these guys weren't drinking. IMO, she says they weren't drinking in order to build her case. Perhaps she was not forced to give a hand job or was not forced to get finger banged. Maybe, just maybe she had asked or given the impression that she wanted it. Perhaps she did enjoy what was happening when she was intoxicated, but afterwards felt remorse at her actions. So, she was irresponsible by being drunk and under the influence of a powerful drug. Does this mean we automatically criminalize the guys? What if they were drunk and didn't have all of their senses as well? The reason I think this is because I have been to many parties before and have been very drunk. I too have messed around with strange women who were intoxicated. It happens people!!! I am sick of seeing people so quick to judge the guys in this type of situation when it could have been completely controlled by the woman. So, these guys tried to get in her pants. What if she gave them every indication that she wanted them to? Imagine if you will........two attractive guys are sitting in the corner drinking at a party. Along comes a beautiful woman who proceeds to flirt with both gentlemen. They resume their conversations and flirting in private, where she makes advances on both men. (use your imagination from there) All I am saying is just because she claims that this all happened, doesn't mean we should be so quick to judge. It could be an attempt for her to get attention. It could be a way for her to feel better about herself since she was drunk and high on meds. It could be that these two guys are the victims. I have been in several situations where I was high, and was with my best friend Kevin......two seperate times we were hanging with a waitress we worked with and she flat out told us she wanted us to fuck her at the same time. Never went anywhere at all, but the fact of the matter remains that some women, even at a young age, are sexually minded and are looking for two men to have sex with. In addition, why was she drinking while on meds? And, why did she not have friends there to keep an eye on her? I am amazed that people are so quick to pass judgement on these two guys when they might want to consider the actions of the girl as well. Now, before I get ripped a new asshole, let me clarify. I don't think there is ever any justification for rape or sexual assault if that was truly the case. I think men who commit crimes like this should have their nuts cut off. Seriously. However, if there is mutual agreement and sexual advances on both sides, then there is nothing wrong with experimenting with the opposite sex. It's just wrong when it is believed to be mutual, then the guy gets accused of rape because she has some insecurities. __________________ Doh!!!! -Homer Simpson Last edited by water_boy1999; 12-15-2003 at 03:16 PM..

12-15-2003, 07:17 PM	#48 (permalink)
ElwoodBlues Psycho Location: Massachusetts	To clarify a few points 1. The guys had been drinking before she got there, by the time this happened they were sobering up 2. She didn't in any way act like she wanted this...the whole time she was crying, and whimpering, and trying to get away, even thought she couldn't even sit up on her own. She in no way gave them the impression she wanted this __________________ I think Pringles initial intention was to make tennis balls. But on the day that the rubber was supposed to show up, a big truckload of potatoes arrived. But Pringles is a laid back company. They said "Fuck it. Cut em up." -Mitch Hedberg, '68-'05 Bauer's the man.

12-15-2003, 07:38 PM	#49 (permalink)
water_boy1999 Fly em straight! Location: Above and Beyond	elwoodblues43, I respect the fact that you are standing up for your friend. However, it is her "drunk" word against yours. She could recall all of the details of the incident, yet was too drunk to even sit up of fight off her attackers. When I am that drunk, I usually can't remember shit! Not saying it didn't happen, nor am I defending these guys in any way, but just suppose she is trying to cover up for a mistake that she made by implicating these guys? I am not tryng to piss you off, but what if a girl was accusing you of something that was completely consentual and innocent? I am just trying not to burn these guys at the stake in the event the story is slightly skewed on her part. __________________ Doh!!!! -Homer Simpson

12-15-2003, 11:13 AM	#43 (permalink)
:::OshnSoul::: Guest	I can see you are a true, caring friend. The only thing you can do is be there for her and give her advice and let her know your feelings. This is something that happened to her, so unfortunately you need to leave it in her hands. There is not much you can do about it unless she is willing also. It's sad to see that she doesn't want to do anything about it- what she really needs is self-confidence. Just keep doing what you're doing- but meddling or pushing will make matters worse if she is not willing to do anything about the situation. It disturbs me about those guys- especially being sober- but it's out of your hands. I hope that she comes around and makes a wise decision or it will keep happening.

12-15-2003, 01:42 PM	#45 (permalink)
lightning Tilted Location: Texas	You know several things are obvious One: What happened to your friend was wrong (for several reasons) Two: She is not going to the cops, and its doubtful if it would even help Three: This horrible evening could scar you friend for a long long time on many levels Four: There are several things you have said that show this situation is one of many indicators that your friend may have some deeper problems (not getting taken advantage of, but being in a state of intoxication that keeps her from being in control) You should encourage your friend to seek professional counseling. This would help her work through the trauma of the evening you mentioned and also help her begin to evaluate some of her other issues (such as drinking, drugs, poor choices, etc.) You might even go with her to help give her courage to follow through with telling everything.

12-15-2003, 03:41 PM	#46 (permalink)
Tirian Addict Location: Canada	1: I agree with all the suggestions for asking her to seek pro help. 2: I think past that you should do nothing more than be supportive, a friend, and a listener.

12-16-2003, 03:21 AM	#51 (permalink)
SiN strangelove Location: ...more here than there...	hrm....shitty situation indeed. my advise? 1. do whatever you can to convince your female friend that she NEEDS counseling. not just for this, but to help her fix whatever's causing her to be such a 'victim'. 2. the guys - assholes, yes. and we can be 99% certain this won't be the last time they're asses, to her or someone's else. not sure what you can really do about this tho, other than try and get the word out so they have a bad reputation? and my general opinion onnit - i don't think she 'deserved' it, but definitely has her part of responsibility. i wish you (and her) luck.