Are you safe at the ATM (cash machine) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JadziaDax · 08-03-2003, 04:36 AM

Criminals Focus on Weak Link in Banking: A.T.M. Network
By WALT BOGDANICH
August 3, 2003
The New York Times

Entire article found here.

Quote:

He fenced stolen jewels, committed bank and credit-card fraud and had been accused of having links to an Albanian-Yugoslavian criminal gang. Cloaking himself in nine aliases and Armani jackets, he was a smooth, multilingual master of the con, investigators and people who knew him say.

His name is Iljmija Frljuckic, and by all accounts, he had no business being around anybody else's money.

Yet after being deported in the late 1990's, he slipped back into the United States and set up shop as a banker, not in a marble lobby under the watchful eyes of auditors and regulators, but in the virtually unregulated world of privately owned automated teller machines.

To tap into this electronic network, Mr. Frljuckic (pronounced Furl-YOU-kich) did not have to produce so much as a valid driver's license. After buying these machines — the kind commonly found in convenience stores, delicatessens and other retail outlets — he and his associates installed devices that captured, or "skimmed," personal bank account information from at least 21,000 people, prosecutors say. They used that information in 2001 and early 2002 to make fake A.T.M. cards, then stole at least $3.5 million, mostly from A.T.M.'s in New York City, according to the latest federal charges filed about two months ago in Manhattan.

Before Mr. Frljuckic came along, small-time crooks had made crude forays into A.T.M. fraud. But in its size and technical sophistication, investigators say, the Frljuckic case is a con of an entirely different order — a new turn on identity theft, a jolting warning of the vulnerability of an A.T.M. system that has exploded in size in the last few years.

No one can say precisely how much is lost through A.T.M.-related crimes. In fact, no government agency knows how many cash machines are operating, where they all are or who owns them. Though banks are reluctant to discuss their losses, they say there is no cause for alarm. But from Canada to Malaysia to the United Arab Emirates, investigators report new assaults on A.T.M.'s.

The criminals, both foreign and homegrown, include gangs, embezzlers and, on occasion, money launderers, according to investigators and public records. And while A.T.M. industry officials say the Frljuckic case shocked them into tougher self-policing of privately owned machines, they also confess that the thieves are remarkably resourceful, shifting their attention now to bank-owned machines. In recent months, skimming devices have been attached to bank machines around Boston and Chicago.

...

A.T.M.'s have been around for decades, but became ubiquitous on the American landscape in 1996, when new surcharges on withdrawals made it possible for private entrepreneurs to profit by owning machines. Since then, the number of machines, which cost as little as $3,000, has tripled, to an estimated 370,000, fueling the growth of companies that sell and service them.

This growth, in turn, has spawned criminal activity that goes beyond just the skimming of bank account numbers. Embezzlements in recent years have involved companies that supply cash to the expanded A.T.M. market, including a New Jersey company, Tri-State Armored Services, where $50 million turned up missing. By contrast, the biggest bank robbery in the last 25 years, according to federal statistics, involved $11 million.

Banks call credit-card and check fraud a much bigger problem. Besides, they say, rare cases of A.T.M. fraud are a small price to pay for convenient cash. But banks are not eager to publicize breaches of A.T.M. security.

"They don't want to give people ideas," said Nessa Feddis, a lawyer with the American Bankers Association.

<center>

Some con men are using privately
owned automated teller machines
to capture personal bank account
information and make fake A.T.M.
cards. Picture by Fred R. Conrad/NY Times</center>

The nation's biggest A.T.M. fraud began in late 2000 with trial runs in California, Florida and New York. At 13 sites, thieves started installing machines rigged internally to capture bank data and personal identification numbers.

They were in no hurry; the longer they waited, the more account numbers they could steal. In four months, with just the dozen or so machines, they had the electronic keys to 4,000 accounts, fraud investigators say.

Only when the gang began siphoning money did banks and customers realize they had been scammed. By the time the rigged machines had been identified, they had vanished, along with their owners and tens of thousands of dollars.

By the end of June 2001, banks had identified the compromised cards and electronically blocked them.

There is much more to this article found at the link above.

Do you use a cash machine outside the bank? Do you fear this kind of fraud? Has this fraud ever happened to you?

Tell us your stories.

I use MAC/ATM/cash machines, but I would never use one that wasn't attached to a bank unless it was an extreme emergency. And then I have credit cards and checks. After reading this entire article, I may never use one of those free standing machines even in an emergency.

gov135 · 08-03-2003, 07:24 AM

I've seen this type of article before detailing scams with ATM's.

Still, I use the ATM when it is convienent for me - including privately owned ones. Maybe I've even gotten scammed out of a couple of bucks. But, no, I don't change my routine in any way - if I feared being scammed the card would be less useful for me. The idea is that you can get money anywhere at anytime.

sixate · 08-03-2003, 07:38 AM

I only use the MAC/ATM machine at my bank. If I was on vacation I would make sure to use MAC/ATM machines from local banks. I'll never use one that isn't at a bank. There have been a few times I drove out of my way to get to a bank so I could grab some cash. It was a pain, but after reading this article I'm glad I did it.

Cynthetiq · 08-03-2003, 08:48 AM

I'm like sixate, i don't use any ATMs unless it's owned by a bank, and even then i try to use only my bank's machines due to surcharges. I now try very hard to not even use cash and just use my Amex and pay that off at the end of the month. I scrutinze every charge on that bill.

more fire · 08-03-2003, 09:42 AM

barclays,natwest and halifax atms (or cash points as there called round here) only

spectre · 08-03-2003, 09:54 AM

I'm suddenly very glad I don't have an ATM card.

WhoaitsZ · 08-03-2003, 10:07 AM

I use my card at a bank, the mall or some other highly comercialized area.

dingy streets or corners... no fucking way.

my card is wonderful. i respect it. use your head!

World's King · 08-03-2003, 11:24 AM

No offense but I'm really sick of the "everyone is out to get me" thing that the media is doing these days.

Jesus fucking Christ... not everyone is a gaddamn criminal.

obediah · 08-03-2003, 11:52 AM

I'm with the others that try to do everything with my credit card. I've got so much more protection with it than any other method of payment. I don't carry cash anymore, and only get it out for a fair or something like that.

Doesn't seem to cause much a hassle, except for trips to the hardware store. I find the 80 cent part I need and then have to buy some $10 tool just so I don't feel guilty charging it.

tenchi069 · 08-03-2003, 12:17 PM

makes you think two or three times before you use independant atms

JoeBlow · 08-03-2003, 12:30 PM

I use POS machines, but I won't use those ghetto atms that some one could take away in their truck at night...

However I do not have a Visa Check card style ATM card, I have a plain ATM card that does not do Visa/MC.... This is A LOT safer as if someone gets the card or the number they need your pin to do something with it...

Otherwise they can just use the number as a regular credit card, and the banks have worthless policies on this, you will usually be out the cash unlike a real credit card.

The_Dude · 08-03-2003, 12:35 PM

i havent used an atm yet.

but off the topic, you're NOT safe at aTm

hotzot · 08-03-2003, 05:48 PM

our local Pizza Hut had an ATM that every once and awhile would spit out an extra $20. They yanked it after 2 years of giving out the people free dough.

santafe5000 · 08-03-2003, 06:13 PM

Using private ATM's is okay if they are in upstanding commercial locations, such as large chain convience stores. They don't let just anyone walk in with a machine and setup.

mortius · 08-03-2003, 08:48 PM

Feel stupid now. Never really thought about getting robbed like this. I'll be a little bit more selective now where I withdraw cash.

One thing I know is this. That little fucking robber of a store round the corner from my house is nothing but a thief.

I went into his shop and needed money quickly (little hole in the wall gas station with 2 pumps), tried to withdraw 100 bucks, max the machine would pay out in one go was 40 bucks and it cost 2.50 to use it. That pissed me right off, but I was in a hurry and needed gas unless I wanted to push the car. Could have gotten 100 bucks from it but would have cost me 7.50 to get it.

BLEH...

xman · 08-03-2003, 09:55 PM

pretty interesting article

MSD · 08-03-2003, 10:17 PM

I'm more concerned about $1.50 or $2 "service fees" plus the $1.50 that my bank tacks on for not using their ATM. That's fucking robbery.

snoop · 08-04-2003, 04:35 PM

Just play it safe, be aware of what's going on around you . . . and keep your money under your mattress . . .

Frowning Budah · 08-04-2003, 06:55 PM

Hey its like everything else, If they want it more than you do they will figure out away to get it. I am not smart enough to figure out every scam before somebody else does. I try to use some common sense and so far I have been lucky. I will probably get burned someday. I am not going to sit around and worry abt it.

crafty · 08-06-2003, 10:22 PM

I live in the good part of town, and the ATM I visit you don't get out of your car, and your on a hill right above a main street with a stoplight right there.. So you would see someone coming for you, and if they DID come for you, others would come for them immediately

08-03-2003, 08:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I'm like sixate, i don't use any ATMs unless it's owned by a bank, and even then i try to use only my bank's machines due to surcharges. I now try very hard to not even use cash and just use my Amex and pay that off at the end of the month. I scrutinze every charge on that bill. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-03-2003, 09:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
spectre Junkie	I'm suddenly very glad I don't have an ATM card. __________________ "Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head

08-03-2003, 11:24 AM	#8 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	No offense but I'm really sick of the "everyone is out to get me" thing that the media is doing these days. Jesus fucking Christ... not everyone is a gaddamn criminal. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

08-03-2003, 12:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
tenchi069 Lost Location: One step closer to the padded cell...	makes you think two or three times before you use independant atms __________________ ERROR- PLBSAK Problem Lies Between Seat and Keyboard.

08-03-2003, 12:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i havent used an atm yet. but off the topic, you're NOT safe at aTm __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-03-2003, 07:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	I've seen this type of article before detailing scams with ATM's. Still, I use the ATM when it is convienent for me - including privately owned ones. Maybe I've even gotten scammed out of a couple of bucks. But, no, I don't change my routine in any way - if I feared being scammed the card would be less useful for me. The idea is that you can get money anywhere at anytime.

08-03-2003, 07:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	I only use the MAC/ATM machine at my bank. If I was on vacation I would make sure to use MAC/ATM machines from local banks. I'll never use one that isn't at a bank. There have been a few times I drove out of my way to get to a bank so I could grab some cash. It was a pain, but after reading this article I'm glad I did it.

08-03-2003, 09:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
more fire Psycho Location: London	barclays,natwest and halifax atms (or cash points as there called round here) only

08-03-2003, 10:07 AM	#7 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	I use my card at a bank, the mall or some other highly comercialized area. dingy streets or corners... no fucking way. my card is wonderful. i respect it. use your head!

08-03-2003, 11:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
obediah Crazy	I'm with the others that try to do everything with my credit card. I've got so much more protection with it than any other method of payment. I don't carry cash anymore, and only get it out for a fair or something like that. Doesn't seem to cause much a hassle, except for trips to the hardware store. I find the 80 cent part I need and then have to buy some $10 tool just so I don't feel guilty charging it.

08-03-2003, 12:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
JoeBlow Upright	I use POS machines, but I won't use those ghetto atms that some one could take away in their truck at night... However I do not have a Visa Check card style ATM card, I have a plain ATM card that does not do Visa/MC.... This is A LOT safer as if someone gets the card or the number they need your pin to do something with it... Otherwise they can just use the number as a regular credit card, and the banks have worthless policies on this, you will usually be out the cash unlike a real credit card.

08-03-2003, 05:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
hotzot We're having potato pancakes! Location: stalag 13	our local Pizza Hut had an ATM that every once and awhile would spit out an extra $20. They yanked it after 2 years of giving out the people free dough. __________________ The Bully Boys are here!

08-03-2003, 06:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
santafe5000 EVIL! Location: Southwest of nowhere	Using private ATM's is okay if they are in upstanding commercial locations, such as large chain convience stores. They don't let just anyone walk in with a machine and setup. __________________ When all else fails, QUIT.

08-03-2003, 08:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
mortius Tilted Location: Houston, Tx	Feel stupid now. Never really thought about getting robbed like this. I'll be a little bit more selective now where I withdraw cash. One thing I know is this. That little fucking robber of a store round the corner from my house is nothing but a thief. I went into his shop and needed money quickly (little hole in the wall gas station with 2 pumps), tried to withdraw 100 bucks, max the machine would pay out in one go was 40 bucks and it cost 2.50 to use it. That pissed me right off, but I was in a hurry and needed gas unless I wanted to push the car. Could have gotten 100 bucks from it but would have cost me 7.50 to get it. BLEH... __________________ What's Your Addiction?

08-03-2003, 09:55 PM	#16 (permalink)
xman Tilted	pretty interesting article

08-03-2003, 10:17 PM	#17 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I'm more concerned about $1.50 or $2 "service fees" plus the $1.50 that my bank tacks on for not using their ATM. That's fucking robbery.

08-04-2003, 04:35 PM	#18 (permalink)
snoop Insane	Just play it safe, be aware of what's going on around you . . . and keep your money under your mattress . . . __________________ ------------------------------------------------ Insert Witty Slogan Here . . . . .

08-04-2003, 06:55 PM	#19 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	Hey its like everything else, If they want it more than you do they will figure out away to get it. I am not smart enough to figure out every scam before somebody else does. I try to use some common sense and so far I have been lucky. I will probably get burned someday. I am not going to sit around and worry abt it.

08-06-2003, 10:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
crafty Tilted Location: Omaha, NE	I live in the good part of town, and the ATM I visit you don't get out of your car, and your on a hill right above a main street with a stoplight right there.. So you would see someone coming for you, and if they DID come for you, others would come for them immediately