warrrreagl

Some goofbag thought it would be cute and quaint to start adding roundabouts in America, and the accursed things are starting to pop up everywhere.

I'm sure roundabouts make sense when Sir Ian McFellow-Poofty-Blather-Hawhaw is tooling slowly around in his Aston-Martin in lovely auld St. Martin-on-the-Hyphen, but they just don't work when Billy Joe Ray Bob, Gumercindo Vasquez, Shaquinta Shashaqua Jefferson, Tiffany Brittney, and a soccer mom all get there at the same time while doing 40 over the speed limit and talking on cellphones.

I'm sure roundabouts work well where they're plentiful, but they're popping up randomly all over the Southern US, and it's getting ridiculous. I mean, you're just driving along, minding your own business, and going through the intersections - stop sign, traffic light, traffic light, stop sign, traffic light, stop sign, stop sign, roundabout....roundabout??? WTF?!?!?!?!?!

And they're never placed where they really should go - heavy traffic areas. They're always stuck randomly out in some little neighborhood (because you just KNOW somebody thought it would increase the re-sale value of the homes in the area), and they're crouching there waiting for some hapless drunk driver to plow right through the middle of it.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

Plan9

They're fucking everywhere. They put up 5 recently in my area. Nobody knows what to do with them.

It's gonna be like Chevy Chase in European Vacation 'round these parts next month.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Roundabouts are built when the civil engineering of yore is overcome by the changing times. What seemed "more than enough" back then is now considered a major problem in some areas.

Think of it this way: You have a city that's been around for centuries. You can't redesign the whole thing, so you come up with something like roundabouts as a fix of desperation.

I was just reading that Toronto has been considering building some. It's more of a Euro thing, which makes sense if you think about it. The problem with Toronto is there's no room to build them where they're most needed. So it's worse than we thought.

So many cars, so little room.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cynthetiq

you're supposed to be paying attention when you're driving.

I find roundabouts a wonderful addition because it reminds me that I must pay attention to driving. Driving is a participatory activity, meaning I really have to participate fully when actively driving. This is why I enjoy manual transmission as well. The more I'm forced to pay attention, the better I will drive.

When I'm just on auto pilot, one gets careless because there is no importance to doing so.

heavy traffic areas only work if the round about is HUGE. In low traffic areas, round abouts provide the safety of slowing down drivers.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Glory's Sun

I don't know why people have trouble with them. They're really easily dealt with.

Plan9

Oh, you're such an optimist. Driving is not a participatory activity to these people, it's multitask time. Bluetooth for the cell, lipstick, $5 footlong, etc.

You know what else slows down drivers? Traffic lights. They're annoying but leave nothing to the imagination. Drivers need direct supervision.

...

SEE: "It's So Pretty / Historic" Washington D.C. traffic clusterfuck. I'd rather commit seppuku with a Taco Bell spork than make that commute for 20 years.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

As a pedestrian who spends 99% of my "pedesting" mere inches from cars, the idea of roundabouts/traffic circles conjures an image of a maelstrom, except instead of the sea monster Charybdis swallowing and spewing water, she spews one-tonne chunks of metal, rubber, and plastic.

I don't want to get sucked into that.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

highthief

Roundabouts work so much better than the zillions of stop signs that litter North America. Yeah, they take getting used to but once people get used to them, they make traffic flow far more smoothly.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

Plan9

Stop signs or traffic lights?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Aren't roundabouts only practical with insanely dense traffic?

Take Toronto: if it weren't for the 4-way stop signs, one ways, and traffic lights "littering" the city, it would be chaos. You can't put roundabouts everywhere.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

snowy

Roundabouts are becoming very common here in new development. Personally, I think they're great. Traffic gets processed more quickly. Bend, OR is full of them now. I don't mind a bit, and I think the more people get used to using them, the better they are for everyone.

About 10 years ago or so now, they built one of the first roundabouts in the PacNW in Lacey, WA. The City of Lacey sent an engineer out to speak to the retirement community my grandfather was living in, presumably to explain to the doddering old folk how such a thing worked. Given that a healthy percentage of the old folk were people who had grown up in Europe, it turned out that they knew more about driving in a roundabout than the city engineer did, and they sent him away befuddled.

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PonyPotato

Roundabouts are actually practical with different types of traffic, Baraka (and the rest of you). Small roundabouts are ideal for intersections where there is a large flow of traffic on one of the roads, and lighter traffic on the other road. That way, the traffic on the larger road does not get slowed down (stop/go) or congested to the level of accidents while the small road doesn't have to wait YEARS at a stop sign/traffic light to get through. Drivers on both roads must slow down, but don't necessarily have to come to a complete stop, which keeps traffic moving.

Traffic lights and stop signs are more practical for heavy pedestrian areas so people can actually cross the street safely.. but roundabouts do extremely alleviate congestion and the horrible stop-go phenomenon. I love the roundabouts in NoVA for that reason, and there are a handful around here (in Ohio) that are finally doing what they're supposed to as people are learning how to drive through them. (i.e. discovering what YIELD really means, as opposed to STOP or ACCELERATE TO BEAT TRAFFIC)

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Marlon's Mom

You'd think! About 10 miles from me (remember, I live in total rural-ville) the powers that be have built a giant roundabout at the intersection of two one-lane country roads. WTF?

Cynthetiq

This must be your song

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

warrrreagl

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I'm not against the concept of roundabouts, just against the seemingly random placements of them in America that seems to be more driven by trendy fashion than function.

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

The_Jazz

They did that in Farragut, TN not too long ago at an intersection notorious for people running the stop signs. Given the layout of the road, it makes a lot more sense.

Everybody - stay off of warrrreagl's lawn. He'll turn the hose on you.

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"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

warrrreagl

Not quite everybody. Only Georgia fans need to fear my hose.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

Salem

I find roundabouts insane. Theres a town about an hour away from where I am that has a lot of round abouts and every time I drive through them I slightly panic not sure wtf I'm doing or where the hell I'm supposed to go. They're weird. I'm sure they do have great puropse and all but still... ridiclous.

ShaniFaye

I ran into one of these the other day.....up in the mtns beside an outlet mall

I'd never been in one....and just because I was paying attention to my driving didnt mean I knew what the hell to do inside it....it was very confusing for me

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ratbastid

I think it's just lack of familiarity. Once you know how to work them they're WAY better than "full-stop" intersections. But I grant it's pretty dang confusing the first time you stumble across one.

BadNick

roundabouts...errr, they call them "traffic circles" around here and they are slowly disappearing Circles were quite common until a few years ago in the outskirts of Philadelphia, specifically on the New Jersey side of the river where most "major" intersections used to be traffic circles. Now many of them are gone, converted to more conventional intersections with stop lights, etc., and the few remaining ones are doomed to a similar fate in the near future.

I actually enjoy it when I come across one. Especially with my kids in the car, since I've been known to just start looping around the circle a couple times until the kids excitedly say "dad, why are we going in circles!" and then I'll cut off to my intended direction while explaining my traffic lesson to them. To put my antics into perspective, the kids also get "overly excited" when we're just cruising down the highway and I suddenly start blowing my horn...of course I only do this when no other cars are around, but I find it funny how some people in the car freak out for no reason just because I'm blowing the horn a few times. As if there was some universal law against blowing your horn even if nobody is around to hear it...except the trees in the forest, of course, they hear it.

I never really had a problem with traffic circles, though I can see that there's not enough space for them in many urban areas. Circles make sense to me since you don't have to stop if there is no reason to, just slow down and carefully merge with the flow. It is self-regulating but dependent on common sense. And for those not familiar enough with how to drive around a circle, I suggest simply adding the topic to driver's education programs...you stop at red lights, you merge around circles, etc.

bagatelle

They've been building them everywhere here in Finland as well. The problem is, in many places they are too small and it causes trouble for long vehicles. Otherwise I like them, they make difficult crossings easier to get through than traffic lights. But our traffic is very modest compared to other countries.

Bill O'Rights

I think that you answered your own question.

And, yeah, I'm not a big fan of 'em either. As "Crompsin" noted, driver's need direct supervision.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

highthief

It's very easy - you yield to the traffic already in the roundabout. If traffic is in the roundabout and approaching, wait. Otherwise, proceed.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

SSJTWIZTA

i see roundabouts all the time in these old Georgia towns. usually they circle right around the courthouse.

they seem as if they have been there for YEARS.

but, still, i hate them. i would like to turn left to get to where im going instead of doing a full circle. It's a pain in the ass.

every time i go into blakely, colquitt, cuthbert, abbeville, etc. it seems as if the building i need is always just to my left. so i turn right, drive the circle...sharking the courthouse, until i circle back around to my destination.

left: 4 second journey.
roundabout: 1 minute.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Strange Famous

call that a roundabout?

THIS, is a roundabout, mate!

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

SSJTWIZTA

i want nothing to do with that, strange.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Daniel_

It's the Magic Roundabout in Swindon.

Here's how you drive round it:

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Bill O'Rights

This. This is what happens when Department of Roads engineers have relatives in the auto body and fender repair business.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

warrrreagl

StrangeFamous wins. Holy shit!

Hey SSJTWIZTA, at least you could get to where you're going in that Swindon roundabout because everybody's already merging to the left!!!

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

Plan9

This.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Zweiblumen

I find it strange that American's are complaining and disliking roundabouts when the call driving in a circle (ellipse) a race
But it's so simple

Yours
Zweiblumen

__________________
Sodomy non sapiens. : I'm buggered if I know

ring

I'm dizzy.
It looks like I'm supposed to drive around and around those small circles
with the arrows, and then slingshot
...somewhere.

This looks like fun. I want to throw my laundry in there too.

Charlatan

Roundabouts are excellent for traffic management. They have been shown to reduce traffic accidents (drivers are forced to pay closer attention), reduce emissions (less idling at stops), keep traffic moving (less commute time) . They take a bit of getting used to but they do work.

It's interesting to note that about 45% of traffic accidents occur at crossroads and many of those are due to poorly executed left turns.

Crotchety old-timers like warrrrreagle and bill o just need to get used to change. Change can be good.

Baraka, there is a roundabout in Toronto. It's on Windermere in Swansea:
toronto - Google Maps

__________________
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Baraka_Guru

Charlatan, it's west of High Park. That's barely Toronto. It's practically in the 'Saug.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Salem

..Yeah... it looks it....

Charlatan

Baraka... I know, but it's what we've got. If it helps, think of it as Bloor West Village... south.

__________________
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- Old Man Luedecke

Cynthetiq

I have to admit that I was daunted by the first roundabout that I had to drive in in Singapore. So not only was I driving into a roundabout for the first time as a California driver (there are lots of straight roads there, everything is a grid) and driving on the other side of the car it was very daunting. Driving stick with the left hand takes a little getting used to.

Newtown Circus was the first roundabout I tried to get into. It was a painful 5-10 minutes trying to get into the circle, but once I understood the process of getting in, it was never a problem again.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

warrrreagl

Get off my lawn.

And be sure to walk in random circles on your way out.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

cyklone

I'm a fan of roundabouts, but perhaps that is because I live in a relatively low traffic area. I hate sitting waiting at bloody traffic lights when there is nothing coming the other way.